| --- Log opened Sun Oct 12 00:00:00 2008 |
| --- Day changed Sun Oct 12 2008 |
| 00:00 | | * Vornicus really should write an actual requirements document for his games. |
| 00:02 | < Shoukanjuu> | It does stand to reason, however, that given three codes, two of one region and one of the same for another, you could find the other code for the second region using the differences...I've done *that* before |
| 00:03 | <@Vornicus> | Shoukanjuu: different regions have various actual differences, really |
| 00:03 | <@Vornicus> | Well, in consoles anyway |
| 00:03 | <@Vornicus> | Europe needs games that refresh at 50Hz instead of 60, which can cause a hell of a lot of pain. |
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| 00:04 | < Shoukanjuu> | maybe in consoles, but handheld games, at least the ones that I've messed with, didn't have noticeable differences in data structure, other than pointers going different places, mostly because of something else before |
| 00:04 | <@Vornicus> | idunno |
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| 00:04 | < Shoukanjuu> | So the pointer could be in the same place, but it would point somewhere else >_> |
| 00:05 | < Shoukanjuu> | Mostly later in the data, for (E) than (U) |
| 00:05 | | * Vornicus begins work on an actual, honest to god requirements document for VornMoO |
| 00:05 | < Shoukanjuu> | Regardless, it seems people are already ahead of me. |
| 00:05 | <@Vornicus> | E and U and J also need different language settings. |
| 00:05 | <@Vornicus> | Of course. |
| 00:05 | < Shoukanjuu> | The Wii cheat code homebrew app :# |
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| 00:06 | < Shoukanjuu> | And geckoOS |
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| 00:06 | < Shoukanjuu> | We're ahead of companies that make this stuff XD |
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| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | If you mean "pointers to strings", yeah, unless all strings are the same length (ha) you'll need to repoint those. |
| 00:11 | < Shoukanjuu> | Well, yeah. That's the point, pun intended :P |
| 00:11 | <@McMartin> | That would likely also require you to include new fonts, for JP->IE. |
| 00:11 | <@McMartin> | (IE=Indo-European) |
| 00:11 | | * McMartin fiddles with Qt4. The Oppress-O-Tron will ride again! |
| 00:11 | < Shoukanjuu> | The main problem was the fact that codes for regions don't work with others. |
| 00:12 | < Shoukanjuu> | Cheat devices work with the RAM and as such, need to be changed for each |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | Oh. Yeah. |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | If they change the strings and recompile you have no guarantee on memory layout |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | especially if strings are packed into the rest of data |
| 00:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | Mmhm. |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | The pointers change, but that's *all* of them, including the one to, say, the HP counter, because the gametitle being eight chars longer shifts every data item in the game. |
| 00:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | Exactly. |
| 00:14 | < Shoukanjuu> | I know at least a *little* about what I'm trying to do :P |
| 00:14 | < Shoukanjuu> | The rest is just me talking to myself to figure out more, faster than others did, even though it's already been figured out |
| 00:14 | < Shoukanjuu> | For the most part, I learn by doing. A lot. |
| 00:15 | < Shoukanjuu> | Everything I say is more or less notes on the things I *have* done, and as such, may be wrong |
| 00:16 | | * McMartin nods |
| 00:17 | | * McMartin is, for the record, fiddling with the internationalization support in Qt right now. |
| 00:17 | < Shoukanjuu> | But I'm fairly confident that I've gotten the basics down |
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| 00:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 00:44 | < GeekSoldier> | Dammit. just connect to the frikkin' database. |
| 00:45 | | * GeekSoldier kicks either php or mysql... whichever is the cause of his hypertension. |
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| 00:52 | < Consul> | Yay! I have my 1280x1024 back! |
| 00:53 | < GeekSoldier> | huzzah! |
| 00:53 | <@McMartin> | w00t! What did it take? |
| 00:53 | < Consul> | I had to let all of the updates run. Hidden in there was the new kernel I needed. |
| 00:53 | | * GeekSoldier loves his dual setup: 1400x1050 and 1900x1200. great for development. |
| 00:54 | < Consul> | Someday, I'll have one of those 1900x1080 monitors. :-) |
| 00:54 | < Consul> | Or x1200, that would be nice, too. |
| 00:55 | | * gnolam would be happy with any non-color corrupting non-ghosting TFT. |
| 00:56 | <@gnolam> | Alas, they're not to be found. Unless you have a budget that's a sizable fraction of your country's GNP. |
| 00:56 | < Consul> | At the moment, I'm stuck with an older Dell CRT because my TFT died. |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | gnolam: That's getting easier all the time in my country. ?? |
| 00:56 | <@gnolam> | Hah. |
| 00:57 | < GeekSoldier> | hee |
| 00:57 | < Consul> | CRTs do have advantages, though: less ghosting, very good contrast ratio... |
| 00:57 | <@gnolam> | Good colors. Good /everything/ actually, except eye strain. |
| 00:57 | <@gnolam> | While TFTs are basically ergonomic but crap. |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | Qt status: STILL BUILDING |
| 00:57 | < Consul> | Probably what I'll do is get a good TFT, and run that and my CRT in a dual-monitor set up. Best of both worlds, hopefully. |
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| 00:59 | < Consul> | Wow, Fedora does fonts a lot better than Ubuntu. I can't see why, it should be the same software, right? |
| 00:59 | <@McMartin> | There's about four layers of software, and a few alternatives for each. |
| 01:00 | <@McMartin> | So I'm not sure if it actually is the same software |
| 01:00 | <@McMartin> | Even if it is, Unix stuff tends to be insanely configurable and Fedora may have different (better) ideas about what's good |
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| 01:00 | <@gnolam> | But all of it tends to be pretty bad at font rendering. |
| 01:01 | < Consul> | Well, I like it better so far. |
| 01:01 | < Consul> | Whatever they're doing different. |
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| 01:03 | <@gnolam> | Windows is good at rendering fonts "pixel perfect" for computer displays. OS X OTOH excels at WYSIWYG rendering for printing. *n?x OTOH manages neither in my experience. |
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| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | Fedora's definitely better than Ubuntu at the former. |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | Though I loathe antialiased fonts. |
| 01:09 | <@gnolam> | And on the topic of fonts, WHY THE FUCK DOESN'T OPENOFFICE KERN PROPERLY? |
| 01:11 | <@McMartin> | Typesetting is haard. |
| 01:11 | <@McMartin> | And Corel went away |
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| 01:16 | < Consul> | I take back what I said about the fonts. |
| 01:16 | < Consul> | I made a tweak to my settings, and now everything is all fucked up. |
| 01:17 | < Consul> | And when I say "made a tweak to my settings" I mean I changed the default font sizes in the Look and Feel panel. |
| 01:17 | < Consul> | And now they won't change back. |
| 01:18 | < Consul> | Okay, I *might* have it figured out now. |
| 01:31 | < Consul> | Okay, Flash works, but sound still doesn't... |
| 01:31 | < Consul> | Oh, I take that back. It's just Flash's sound that doesn't work. |
| 01:31 | | * Consul mutters under his breath |
| 01:32 | <@McMartin> | I never bothered with Flash, but, well, 64-bit. |
| 01:32 | <@McMartin> | 64-bit Flash just generally DFW. |
| 01:32 | < Consul> | I depend on Youtube for my fix of British comedy panel shows. |
| 01:34 | | * McMartin nods |
| 01:34 | | * McMartin has to pair VideoDownloader with mplayer for this. |
| 01:35 | < Consul> | That works, too. |
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| 01:41 | < Consul> | Well, VLC works well enough. |
| 01:41 | < Consul> | Except it stutters every once in a great while, like it gets bogged down. |
| 01:43 | < Consul> | Wow, no Auqalung... |
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| 01:43 | < Consul> | Err, Aqualubg |
| 01:44 | < Consul> | Eh, screw it. |
| 01:45 | < Consul> | Xmms doesn't drop out at all. |
| 01:47 | < Consul> | Well, xmms isn't my first choice, but it works. |
| 01:47 | < Consul> | Now, sound in Flash... |
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| 01:49 | < Consul> | Theory: flash-nonfree by default tries to grab the ALSA driver directly, which it of course can't do because PulseAudio gets it first. |
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| 01:49 | < Consul> | Solution: No freaking clue. |
| 01:54 | < Shoukanjuu> | aha, it worked. Graphical glitches, though. |
| 01:54 | < Shoukanjuu> | Gecko OS is more stable so I'll use that... |
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| 02:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Re: sound: I reiterate my earlier statement that sound is Linux's weakest aspect, and one of the few where windows is consistenly, and vastly, superior |
| 02:26 | <@McMartin> | Yay, Qt installed and working |
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| 02:38 | <@McMartin> | Hooray for Linux package managers letting me get Qt-devel binaries. |
| 02:38 | <@McMartin> | Which are, themselves, like 15 megs. |
| 02:38 | | * McMartin mutters angrily at having to compile it on his Mac, which was madness on stilts. |
| 02:40 | <@Vornicus> | Possibly carrying two umbrellas at once? |
| 02:40 | < Consul> | Curse you, xkcd, for making me look up continued fractions! |
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| 02:43 | <@McMartin> | Vorn: I think it took two hours. |
| 02:44 | <@Vornicus> | McM: ah, fun |
| 02:44 | <@Vornicus> | Consul: continued fractions are fun. |
| 02:45 | | * Consul just traded his 60w-equiv tungsten-balanced CFL for a new, 100w-equiv daylight-balanced CFL. Very nice so far. |
| 02:47 | < Consul> | I just wish I knew what to do about Flash's sound. I hate to keep saying, but again, on Ubuntu 64, it all just worked. |
| 02:49 | < Consul> | Of course, the whole point of this exercise was to roll back to a 32-bit OS, and, well, Ubuntu 32-bit *didn't* just work so well. |
| 02:49 | < Consul> | Which I find very odd. |
| 02:57 | < Consul> | Whee! Sound in Flash works! Turns out there's a small library required that isn't a dependency of the plugin for some reason. |
| 02:58 | <@McMartin> | Which one? |
| 02:58 | <@McMartin> | (And maybe file that as a bug in Livna?) |
| 02:58 | < Consul> | Actually, it's Adobe's fault. |
| 02:59 | <@McMartin> | Aha. |
| 02:59 | < Consul> | I got the Flash plug-in from Adobe's repository. |
| 03:00 | < Consul> | Now, what package do I install to get the OO suite? |
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| 03:04 | <@McMartin> | Hm. That ships with the DVD. I suspect it's something like openoffice.org2 or something though |
| 03:04 | < Consul> | One at a time, I guess. |
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| 03:04 | <@McMartin> | There should be a master package. |
| 03:05 | < Consul> | Well, I was hoping for a metapackage, but I couldn't find one. |
| 03:05 | < Consul> | So I told it to install Writer (which is what I use 99% of the time anyway). |
| 03:05 | <@McMartin> | Hm. You seem to be write. |
| 03:05 | <@McMartin> | I'm something of a fan of Impress, as well. |
| 03:06 | <@McMartin> | right arg |
| 03:06 | < Consul> | Impressive |
| 03:06 | | * Consul joins the punfest |
| 03:06 | <@McMartin> | This is a hint my blood sugar is too low. To dinner! |
| 03:09 | < Consul> | My homemade root beer will be ready tomorrow. Yay! |
| 03:11 | <@McMartin> | Awesome |
| 03:12 | < Consul> | And we have vanilla ice cream! |
| 03:12 | <@McMartin> | Alas for lactose |
| 03:14 | < Consul> | Lactose-intolerance? |
| 03:15 | <@McMartin> | Yup |
| 03:22 | | * ToxicFrog plies McMartin with emmentaler cheese instead |
| 03:22 | < Consul> | VLC keeps dropping frames with certain file types. Mp3s and flvs are an issue so far. Mp4s are fine. |
| 03:23 | <@McMartin> | FLV has always been problematic for me. |
| 03:23 | <@McMartin> | I figured it was the 64-bit, though. Guess not. |
| 03:23 | <@McMartin> | Anyway, actually off to dinner now. |
| 03:23 | <@McMartin> | After that, I can sort out some thesisness and maybe rewrite the Oppress-O-Tron. |
| 03:24 | | * Consul listens to some Laurie Anderson. |
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| 06:27 | < Shoukanjuu> | ..... |
| 06:28 | < Shoukanjuu> | So they're talking about the other two games giving a bonus to multiplayer |
| 06:28 | < Shoukanjuu> | And that it's closer to three years to get each |
| 06:29 | < Vornotron> | oppress-o-tron? |
| 06:30 | < Shoukanjuu> | Seems liek the only thing Activision did was put blizzard into "Suck the money out of them" mode. |
| 06:30 | <@McMartin> | Oppress-O-Tron was a very silly program I wrote to learn the basics of Cocoa. |
| 06:31 | <@McMartin> | It has a button you push to increase the Opressed Populace number, displayed in a little box. |
| 06:31 | < Vornotron> | oh that |
| 06:31 | < Shoukanjuu> | It fills you with the sick satisfaction of being better than *this many* people. |
| 06:32 | < Shoukanjuu> | Overall, you have a better day? Like stress relief? :D |
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| 06:32 | | * McMartin returns from inexplicable Sonic 2 session. |
| 06:32 | <@McMartin> | I don't understand why people thought this game was hard. |
| 06:34 | < Vornotron> | I found it occasionally baffling as to collision resolution - sometimes it seemed likethe same action would kill one enemy and in another attack make me lose my rings. |
| 06:34 | <@McMartin> | I'm not talking like that |
| 06:35 | <@McMartin> | I'm talking like "I am totally brickwalled on stage 2.1" |
| 06:35 | < Vornotron> | uh. |
| 06:35 | < Vornotron> | Yeah, that never happened to me. |
| 06:35 | < Vornotron> | The damn emerald chases were horrible though. |
| 06:35 | <@McMartin> | Yes. |
| 06:35 | <@McMartin> | It took them over 10 years to get that right. |
| 06:35 | <@McMartin> | It turns out that it requires a mouse. =P |
| 06:36 | < Vornotron> | pfff |
| 06:36 | <@McMartin> | (Sonic Rush for the DS finally got the Goddamn Alien Half-Pipe Special Stage to a playable point, and it's perfectly fine there.) |
| 06:36 | < Shoukanjuu> | Vorn: The collision detection being bad is what makes a sonic game a sonic game |
| 06:36 | < Shoukanjuu> | Anything else and it might be GOOD |
| 06:36 | < Shoukanjuu> | And we can't have that. |
| 06:36 | | * McMartin tsks at Shou. |
| 06:36 | < Shoukanjuu> | :P |
| 06:36 | <@McMartin> | Sonic 2 is one of the 2.5 games that you're allowed to like. |
| 06:37 | <@McMartin> | Because either it or S3K is The Standard To Which All The Others Are Failing To Live Up To. |
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| 06:37 | < Shoukanjuu> | Seriously, though, Sonic 2 was fun, and I remember the collisions being a little wonky, but no other problems. |
| 06:37 | <@McMartin> | If you were never that great to begin with, like, oh, say, Rayman, nobody gives a shit that your sequels are crap. |
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| 06:37 | < Shoukanjuu> | XD |
| 06:37 | <@McMartin> | And then when you get turned into a minigame collection full of adorably psychotic alien bunny rabbits, everyone cheers and throws plungers. |
| 06:37 | <@McMartin> | (DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) |
| 06:38 | < Shoukanjuu> | So...let's see. |
| 06:38 | < Shoukanjuu> | We'll just put Blizzactivision on my list right under Eidos Montreal... |
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| 06:39 | < Shoukanjuu> | They both have this one last chance. |
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| 06:39 | <@McMartin> | WORLD OF LOST VIKINGS |
| 06:40 | <@McMartin> | That said, it looks like World of Lost Vikings already exists, and is called "LittleBigPlanet" |
| 06:40 | < Shoukanjuu> | What IS that game? |
| 06:40 | < Shoukanjuu> | Potato sack doll things |
| 06:40 | <@McMartin> | It appears |
| 06:40 | <@McMartin> | Er |
| 06:40 | < Shoukanjuu> | Looks like something that owuld give me nightmares if I were ten. |
| 06:40 | <@McMartin> | It appears to be platformer + massively complex level creation tools + immensely detailed physics engine |
| 06:41 | < Shoukanjuu> | Oh. |
| 06:41 | <@McMartin> | And it also seems to be intended to have levels that require coop multiplayer to make everything go |
| 06:41 | < Shoukanjuu> | Well, that can't be bad. |
| 06:41 | <@McMartin> | Which is, indeed, v. Lost Vikings |
| 06:41 | < Shoukanjuu> | Sweet. |
| 06:41 | < Shoukanjuu> | I have no friends. Now what? |
| 06:41 | <@McMartin> | You play the non-co-op levels |
| 06:41 | < Vornotron> | ...multiplayer coop puzzle platformer. |
| 06:41 | <@McMartin> | But yeah, there's a recent PA post on a "fly a zeppelin by jumping on levers" level. |
| 06:42 | < Shoukanjuu> | yeah |
| 06:42 | < Shoukanjuu> | I saw that |
| 06:42 | < Shoukanjuu> | I was like "..What" |
| 06:42 | < Vornotron> | I would like to subscribe to this game's newsletter. |
| 06:42 | <@McMartin> | The PS3 now has a killer app~ |
| 06:42 | <@McMartin> | (But Metal Gear no.) |
| 06:42 | <@McMartin> | (But Soul Calino) |
| 06:42 | <@McMartin> | (But Devil May no) |
| 06:43 | < Shoukanjuu> | Haha, movies aren't applications |
| 06:43 | < Shoukanjuu> | That's funny, you're funny. |
| 06:43 | <@McMartin> | TO be fair, DMC4 was actually a game. |
| 06:43 | <@McMartin> | SCIV was too, but that series has been turning more and more into an embarrassment |
| 06:43 | <@McMartin> | MM9 \o/ |
| 06:44 | < Shoukanjuu> | I'm at the castle. |
| 06:44 | < Shoukanjuu> | The game died for me. |
| 06:44 | <@McMartin> | Me too. |
| 06:44 | <@McMartin> | Though it's still alive |
| 06:44 | < Shoukanjuu> | I probably should have gotten the WAD off the internets |
| 06:44 | <@McMartin> | I'm not, though >_< |
| 06:44 | | * Vornotron ponders, out of nowhere: Abe's Deathmatch. |
| 06:44 | | * McMartin needs to take the time to reach the final boss with 10 tanks. |
| 06:45 | | * Shoukanjuu needs to take the time to get screws for M tanks so he doesn't run out of tornado ammunition because he died after the puzzle that required tornado ammunition. |
| 06:46 | <@McMartin> | Dude, that is like 3 big ones. |
| 06:46 | < Shoukanjuu> | BUT IT HAPPENS EVERY TIME |
| 06:46 | <@McMartin> | ... where? |
| 06:46 | < Shoukanjuu> | I can't remember. |
| 06:46 | | * McMartin expects one to clear that part, get to the continue point, and then die forever |
| 06:46 | < Shoukanjuu> | After the LOLSPIKES room |
| 06:47 | < Shoukanjuu> | I get past all the spikes |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | Especially if you didn't work out a secondary effect of one of your subweapons. |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | ISTR that after that you're right at the midboss. |
| 06:47 | < Shoukanjuu> | and then get to the next room |
| 06:47 | < Shoukanjuu> | And die. |
| 06:47 | < Shoukanjuu> | sometime after that... |
| 06:47 | < Shoukanjuu> | Or even better |
| 06:47 | < Shoukanjuu> | THE DRAGON |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, the dragon is the midboss |
| 06:47 | < Shoukanjuu> | Who I still can't seem to no damage. |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | The continue point is right after you waste him. |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | Uh |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | He also lived on Magma Man's stage |
| 06:47 | <@McMartin> | You shoot him in the face. |
| 06:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | I know. |
| 06:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | I know how to shoot him v_V |
| 06:48 | <@McMartin> | Oh, to no damage, as in, defeat without taking any |
| 06:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | I'm just afraid of jumping into him when jumping over the fireballs |
| 06:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | So I jump to shallow |
| 06:48 | <@McMartin> | You don't need to no damage him. Pack an E tank. |
| 06:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | And land on one. |
| 06:48 | <@McMartin> | The continue point is *right there*. |
| 06:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | But I don't WANT to use an E tank. |
| 06:48 | <@McMartin> | And then begins your true education. |
| 06:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | Because I have it. |
| 06:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | And it's mine. |
| 06:48 | <@McMartin> | There's one after the continue point, you can replenish it. |
| 06:49 | < Shoukanjuu> | And I'm sure I can get right past th-FFFFFFFFFF |
| 06:49 | <@McMartin> | There's also an M tank in phase 3. |
| 06:49 | < Shoukanjuu> | I do it EVERY TIME. |
| 06:49 | <@McMartin> | But you can only carry one. |
| 06:49 | < Shoukanjuu> | I have the thing, should use it, don't. |
| 06:49 | <@McMartin> | So, uh, yeah. |
| 06:49 | < Shoukanjuu> | For this reason, I can beat every every stage boss without dying, without E tanks. |
| 06:49 | <@McMartin> | The whole point of having nine is so that you can map out the stage recklessly, die horribly due to poor supply, then try again later and do it right. |
| 06:50 | < Shoukanjuu> | Without using weaknesses because WHAT THE FUCK ARE HORNETS WEAK AGAINST |
| 06:50 | < Shoukanjuu> | MASSIVE STINGERS |
| 06:50 | <@McMartin> | I can answer that for you if you want. |
| 06:50 | < Shoukanjuu> | HORNET BATTLE AUGH |
| 06:50 | <@McMartin> | But really, if you can't figure it out, there should be one weapon you don't have a sucker for~ |
| 06:50 | < Shoukanjuu> | I just shot him with the buster like everyone else. |
| 06:51 | <@McMartin> | Ah. |
| 06:51 | < Shoukanjuu> | And I used the black hole bomb to suck the stupid hornets out of my way |
| 06:51 | <@McMartin> | So you didn't notice that weaknessees were mechanical instead of thematic. |
| 06:51 | < Shoukanjuu> | Keep firing after |
| 06:51 | < Shoukanjuu> | Well, let's see. |
| 06:51 | <@McMartin> | Perhaps we should take this to /msg |
| 06:51 | < Shoukanjuu> | I tried to kill splashwoman with plugman's weapon. |
| 06:51 | < Shoukanjuu> | then I gave up. |
| 06:51 | < Vornotron> | Yes please |
| 06:52 | < Shoukanjuu> | Sorry ^^; |
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| 07:40 | | * McMartin is liking Qt. |
| 07:40 | <@McMartin> | So far it has the best programmatic layout mechanism of any system I've worked with. |
| 07:40 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Great. |
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| 07:48 | | * McMartin now plays with the visual designer. |
| 07:49 | | * Shoukanjuu successfully made it so he never has to reload. However, the inventory is broken when the code is on, which is not good. |
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| 08:11 | <@McMartin> | Incidentally, the *reason* Qt is making me squee is because it's the first Widget toolkit I've seen that lets you directly assign springs as invisible widgets in your layout. |
| 08:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | O_O |
| 08:12 | <@McMartin> | You get nested grids a la GTK, but then spacers can be used to make the layouts be as large as they need to and no larger. |
| 08:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Sounds sexy. |
| 08:12 | <@McMartin> | Swing is 47 kinds of bitch about this, and while I know GTK *can* do it, it involves some kind of magic with properties and I could never manage to do it consistently, even in Glade. |
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| 14:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 14:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Qt4 looks quite nice. |
| 14:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Now I have to choose between going ahead with my already-mostly-done GTK UI, and not screwing Mac users >.< |
| 14:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | (which means writing my own Qt4 bindings) |
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| 15:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 15:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Options. |
| 15:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | - use GTK. Not good for OSX users, windows bindings are slightly wobbly. On the other hand, UI is already mostly done. |
| 15:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | - use Qt4. Bind stuff as I need it. Portable, fast, not reusable, tedious if it turns out I need more than I thought. |
| 15:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | - use Qt4, write full bindings for it. Reusable, but requires writing bindings for Qt4, which does not have a nice tidy class tree file anywhere I can examine but instead requires examination of the C++ headers. |
| 15:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | - use PyQt4. Mature and exists, but requires me to switch to python. |
| 15:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | - use PyQt4 via Lunatic. Mature, lets me keep using lua, but now involves three languages. |
| 16:21 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 16:45 | <@jerith> | Somewhere between 2 and 3? |
| 16:46 | <@jerith> | Write bindinga as needed, but in such a way as to be part of a more complete library later. |
| 16:47 | | * Vornicus wonders what the question was? |
| 16:47 | | * jerith will /msg it. |
| 16:51 | | * Vornicus agress with jerith |
| 16:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | What I really need is better C++ introspection capabilities. |
| 16:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Then the binding becomes really simple. |
| 17:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aha. |
| 17:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm going with 5. |
| 17:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Lunatic Python is delicious. |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can access Python data structures and call Python functions from Lua entirely transparently, and vice versa. |
| 17:45 | <@Vornicus> | ...hot. |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | (one of the examples on the main page is "loading the python RE module as a Lua module") |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | As Lua is mainly an embedding language, getting access to the batteries included in Python may be interesting. |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | > re = python.import("re") |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | > pattern = re.compile("^Hel(lo) world!") |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | > match = pattern.match("Hello world!") |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | > =match.group(1) |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | lo |
| 17:46 | <@Vornicus> | ... |
| 17:46 | <@Vornicus> | /hot/ |
| 17:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. |
| 17:47 | <@Vornicus> | now can you do it the other way around? |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 17:47 | <@Vornicus> | And can you use the other Python operators in Lua? |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | >>> import lua |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | >>> lg = lua.globals() |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | >>> lg.string |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | <Lua table at 0x81c6a10> |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | >>> lg.string.lower |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | <Lua function at 0x81c6b30> |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | >>> lg.string.lower("Hello world!") |
| 17:47 | <@Vornicus> | .... |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | 'hello world!' |
| 17:48 | <@Vornicus> | ....bitchrod |
| 17:48 | | * Vornicus must restart. |
| 17:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can't use the python operators in lua, because it's a library; it doesn't change the lexis or syntax of either language |
| 17:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can, however, do something like: value = python.eval(<code goes here>) |
| 17:49 | <@Vornicus> | aha |
| 17:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | And yes, it all works both ways. |
| 17:49 | <@Vornicus> | that's so awesome. |
| 17:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 17:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | My dad and sister agree. |
| 17:49 | <@Vornicus> | I know how nerdular your dad is. |
| 17:49 | <@Vornicus> | How nerdular is your sister? |
| 17:49 | <@GeekSoldier> | my family is almost entirely non-nerdular. |
| 17:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | She's more into natural linguistics, but is taking some CS stuff on the side - picked up Python last year, is now thinking about either C, Java or Lua. |
| 17:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Uses Linux but has no interest in sysadmin tasks, does a bit of gaming but not much. |
| 17:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, not as much as me or dad (yet ??) but more than average. |
| 17:51 | | * Vornicus wishes everybody knew at least some of how to program. |
| 17:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | (she also does UI design, and helped a lot with the Spellcast redesign) |
| 17:51 | <@Vornicus> | yay ui design! |
| 17:51 | | * Vornicus actually restarts now. |
| 17:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Conversation from earlier, I was discussing with Eleanor switching spellcast to Qt4, parents were in earshot... |
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| 17:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | ME: It would be nice if C++ had better introspection capabilities. That would make the bindings a lot simpler. |
| 17:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | DAD: Sounds like you need Java~ |
| 17:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | ME: Java's reflection would be pretty handy right now, actually. |
| 17:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | MOM: Yes, shame about its everything else. |
| 17:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | And now, dog-walking. |
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| 17:59 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 17:59 | < Consul> | Hehe |
| 18:00 | <@Vornicus> | I saw you were about to tell a story as the thing was quitting! ;_; |
| 18:01 | <@Vornicus> | Also, reservoir manicouagan looks like a place in a video game. |
| 18:02 | <@Vornicus> | http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.382067,-68.686523&spn=2.386276,3.790283&t= p&z=8 |
| 18:03 | <@GeekSoldier> | hm... why is my script returning "Resource id#6" on a password query? |
| 18:03 | | * GeekSoldier kicks. |
| 18:03 | <@Vornicus> | It's also got an island on a lake on an island on a lake. |
| 18:04 | <@GeekSoldier> | recursive lakes! |
| 18:06 | | * Vornicus wonders what the story was. |
| 18:13 | < Consul> | A word of warning: Never pick your nose after chopping jalapenos. |
| 18:13 | <@Vornicus> | Been there done that, except it was my eye. |
| 18:14 | < Consul> | The really bad one was chopping some fierce Chinese pepper variety before going to the bathroom. |
| 18:14 | < Consul> | That took a baking soda bath to help fix. |
| 18:15 | <@Vornicus> | >_< |
| 18:15 | <@Vornicus> | Consul, uh. |
| 18:15 | <@Vornicus> | Wins. |
| 18:15 | <@Vornicus> | If you can call that winning. |
| 18:15 | < Consul> | It is in the "Distraction with your host Jimmy Carr" sense. |
| 18:37 | < Consul> | Damn, no luck finding an RT kernel in the Yum repositories. |
| 18:38 | < Consul> | Damn, no luck finding an RT kernel in the Yum repositories. |
| 18:38 | < Consul> | Shit! |
| 18:38 | < Consul> | I up-arrowed in the wrong window. Sorry |
| 18:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Consul: in SUSE it's kernel-rt, I thought Fedora had the same? |
| 18:39 | < Consul> | I've heard there are issues with the rt patch in versions later than 2.6.24 for some reason. |
| 18:39 | < Consul> | I think the plan is ultimately to make every kernel not need any patching for RT, but it might be a while. |
| 18:40 | < Consul> | Yeah, no RT kernel. Not in the main repos anyway. There might be a third-party one somewhere. |
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| 18:42 | < Consul> | There's an rt-kernel for the 2.6.25 that Fedora 9 originally shipped with, but not the current 2.6.26, which I of course need for the Nvidia drivers to work. |
| 18:49 | < Consul> | Well, some people out there have been having luck making a 2.6.26-rt for Fedora 9. Now if only I could find the repos or RPMs for them... |
| 18:50 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Weaklings. Just install QNX instead, all of you. :) |
| 18:51 | < Consul> | I don't need it *right this minute*, but it would be nice. |
| 18:54 | <@MyCatVerbs> | *snerk* |
| 18:55 | <@MyCatVerbs> | What you just described is exactly what a real-time system is *not*. ;D |
| 18:56 | <@MyCatVerbs> | If you really did need a real-time system, then you'd need it right now dammit no matter what. :) |
| 18:57 | | * GeekSoldier kicks self. |
| 18:57 | <@MyCatVerbs> | But being happy with best effort? Why, you would be happy live in a batch-processing universe! =D |
| 19:04 | < Consul> | I'm happy for you that you found an accidental pun in my writings. |
| 19:12 | < Consul> | Is there a master (or meta or whatever) package on Fedora 9 that installs gcc, g++ and the standard libs and all that fun stuff? |
| 19:13 | < Consul> | I can pick them all out individually, but a single package with all the right dependencies would be nice. |
| 19:18 | < Consul> | Ah, turns out just installing gcc pretty much grabs everything else. Makes sense, I guess. |
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| 20:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Lunatic Python working. |
| 20:20 | < Vornotron> | wootcake |
| 20:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | ben@leela:~/spellcast> env LUA_SOPATH=lib/ LUA_PATH=';;'lib/?.lua src/lua/src/lua -lpython |
| 20:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Lua 5.1.4 Copyright (C) 1994-2008 Lua.org, PUC-Rio |
| 20:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | > print(python, python.import('PyQt4')) |
| 20:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | table: 0x8071d30 <module 'PyQt4' from '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/PyQt4/__init__.py'> |
| 20:23 | <@Shoukanjuu> | \o/ |
| 20:23 | <@Shoukanjuu> | import cake |
| 20:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm |
| 20:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | I wonder how I do "from X import Y" |
| 20:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, this works: |
| 20:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | > python.execute("from PyQt4 import QtGui") |
| 20:32 | < Consul> | I wish I could do an import XX |
| 20:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | > QtGui = python.eval("QtGui") |
| 20:32 | | * Consul waits to see who picks up on the joke... |
| 20:51 | <@gnolam> | GHARNAGH |
| 20:51 | <@gnolam> | FUCK YOU TO HELL, OPENOFFICE |
| 20:51 | <@Shoukanjuu> | NeoOffice \o/ |
| 20:52 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It seems so much more stable, takes less time to open, uses less resources, it seems. |
| 20:54 | <@gnolam> | And is specific to Mac OS X. |
| 20:54 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Yes, that would have been something to say. |
| 20:55 | <@gnolam> | This is fucking it. I give up. |
| 20:55 | | * gnolam goes looking for something MS Office-y on MSDNAA. |
| 21:11 | < Consul> | So who wants to see an odd Spanish-language tribute to Rapper's Delight? |
| 21:32 | <@gnolam> | Black sky at night, rapper's delight? |
| 22:18 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29794.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 22:20 | <@McMartin> | Source-level compat between Mac and Linux: confirmed |
| 22:20 | <@McMartin> | Now to get a working environment on Windows too |
| 22:22 | <@McMartin> | Hey TF, you used Glade a lot more. Is there an equivalent in Gladeable GTK to Qt's spring-spacers? |
| 22:22 | <@McMartin> | I had real trouble with non-grid GUIs |
| 22:23 | <@McMartin> | (Also, I believe the class you want is something like UiLoader, which builds a widget/window out of a Qt Designer's .ui file.) |
| 22:23 | <@McMartin> | (My source-level compat used the precompilation step version, though.) |
| 22:25 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-6945.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 22:25 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 23:00 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-6945.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: The body is alive, but the eyes are dead.] |
| 23:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I have no idea; I was all about abusing HBoxes and VBoxes |
| 23:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't think I ever deployed a single GridLayout |
| 23:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | I take a spring spacer is invisible, but takes up as much space as it can without overly squishing the rest of the UI, or something? |
| 23:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | I do seem to recall doing something like that in spellcast |
| 23:30 | <@McMartin> | I believe All spacers in a grid split the space between them. |
| 23:30 | <@McMartin> | So if you had button/spacer/button/spacer, you'd have left/center/right buttons |
| 23:31 | <@McMartin> | And I recall whenever I tried that in Glade I'd end up with either three buttons each a third of the window wide, or they'd each be centered at the 1/3 markers. |
| 23:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Wait, button/spacer/button/spacer => 3 buttons |
| 23:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 23:38 | | * ToxicFrog ponders |
| 23:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | So what you're after is something like: |button button button|, but in Glade button-spacer-button-spacer-button results in | button button button |? |
| 23:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know I did that, but ISTR doing it with an hbox, two spacers and the widget alignment settings. |
| 23:56 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| --- Log closed Mon Oct 13 00:00:08 2008 |