| --- Log opened Tue Sep 30 00:00:08 2008 |
| --- Day changed Tue Sep 30 2008 |
| 00:00 | | C_tiger [~c_wyz@Nightstar-8414.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| --- Log closed Tue Sep 30 00:46:03 2008 |
| --- Log opened Tue Sep 30 00:46:08 2008 |
| 00:46 | | TheWatcher[zZzZ] [~chris@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 00:46 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 17 nicks [7 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 10 normal] |
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| --- Log closed Tue Sep 30 05:41:42 2008 |
| --- Log opened Tue Sep 30 05:41:46 2008 |
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| 05:41 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 9 nicks [5 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 4 normal] |
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| 08:40 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 13:12 | | AttillaUni [~nsJChat@Nightstar-22345.chemy.cf.ac.uk] has joined #code |
| 13:17 | < AttillaUni> | Hey guys, anyone about who knows awk? |
| 13:23 | < AttillaUni> | Nevermind, worked out the problem. Was declaring something the wrong way around (and yet it didn't seem to care! :() |
| 13:47 | | MyCatVerbs [~mycatverb@Nightstar-13709.lurkingfox.co.uk] has joined #code |
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| 13:48 | < AttillaUni> | Hello MCV |
| 14:02 | | * AnnoDomini pulls out a block of meatlike substance from his soup. |
| 14:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | It tastes vaguely like fish. |
| 14:03 | | * AnnoDomini laughs out loud. |
| 14:04 | <@AnnoDomini> | Man, I'm reading The Munchkin's Guide to Power Gaming, and there's a questionaire. |
| 14:04 | <@AnnoDomini> | 3. Swords. What do you carry? |
| 14:04 | <@AnnoDomini> | a. An epee. |
| 14:04 | <@AnnoDomini> | b. A two-handed sword. |
| 14:05 | < Shoukanjuu> | Whirlwind! *spins around with a two handed sword, easily dodged* |
| 14:05 | <@AnnoDomini> | c. A two-handed greatsword that can only be lifted by someone with your superhuman strength, doubles your skill and damage, is totally indestructable, and was bequeathed to you by a god for no good reason. |
| 14:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | I have a TriStat character with pretty much exactly c. |
| 14:07 | < Shoukanjuu> | Someone just tried to chastise my grammar. |
| 14:07 | < Shoukanjuu> | Apparently shortening the word 'is' into 's is incorrect. |
| 14:07 | < Shoukanjuu> | ?_? |
| 14:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's correct when following "it", not sure about other uses |
| 14:09 | < Shoukanjuu> | Okay. |
| 14:09 | < Shoukanjuu> | Jacks apparently means "Jack is" |
| 14:09 | < Shoukanjuu> | I laughed. |
| 14:09 | <@AnnoDomini> | No. It does not. |
| 14:10 | < Shoukanjuu> | "Jack's = shows possession |
| 14:10 | < Shoukanjuu> | Jacks = Jack is" |
| 14:11 | <@AnnoDomini> | Where are you getting this nuttery? |
| 14:11 | < Shoukanjuu> | 4chan XD |
| 14:12 | < Shoukanjuu> | It makes me feel better about myself. Really good for self esteem. |
| 14:29 | | Shoukanjuu [~Shoukanju@Nightstar-19166.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Shoukanjuu] |
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| 14:49 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 14:49 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 15:08 | | * AttillaUni goes home. |
| 15:08 | | AttillaUni [~nsJChat@Nightstar-22345.chemy.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Nightstar's Java Chat http://www.nightstar.net] |
| 15:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Shoukanjuu: "Jack's" is correct for both posession and existence. The former use is more common and thus assumed unless the latter is implied by context. |
| 15:17 | < Shoukanjuu> | I know. |
| 15:17 | < Shoukanjuu> | But the guy said that Jacks mean Jack is |
| 15:17 | < Shoukanjuu> | meant* |
| 15:17 | < Shoukanjuu> | So I explained in a paragraph how he was wrong, gave an example, and put on the end |
| 15:18 | < Shoukanjuu> | "tl;dr: go to fucking school" |
| 15:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aaw. You have faith in the school system. |
| 15:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | How cute~ |
| 15:18 | < Shoukanjuu> | I know, right? ;_; |
| 15:19 | < Shoukanjuu> | I'm pretty sure the school system is better in other states and more importantly, countries |
| 15:30 | | Myst [~Myst@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
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| 15:49 | <@Attilla> | So yeah, awk is fun. I have to make a script which analyses cartesian co-ordinates and compares the distance between each of their vectors from a file (the co-ordinates are available, the vectors are not but I know how to make vectors) |
| 16:43 | <@jerith> | awk is great |
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| 18:24 | <@Attilla> | Man this other part to the script is catching me, i'm trying to compare the distances from the vectors gotten from the cartesian co-ordinates. But I want to do so generically rather than brute forcing it with the exact number of the sets of co-ordinate data in the file because this is meant for use in any similar file |
| 18:48 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@131.104.91.ns-20915] has joined #code |
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| 21:53 | <@Attilla> | Still s'cool to be able to SSH to do my work, get to play with a linux cluster for all the computational needs |
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| 22:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 22:37 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 23:00 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Attilla_: oh Hells yes. |
| 23:00 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Attilla_: working on secure shell rules, especially if you're stuck on a terrible machine for some reason. :) |
| 23:01 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29255.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Nobody makes jokes in base 13.] |
| 23:01 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Attilla_: whenever I do it from a Windows box, I always jokingly refer to it as "SSHing into a *real* computer." ;) |
| 23:01 | < Shoukanjuu> | So my friend is making gameshark codes with a MIPS thingamagig in C++. or something. I wasn't paying attention to him much. |
| 23:01 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Attilla_: (my opinion of Bill's baby isn't -quite- that low, but as it turns out I don't actually use Windows for anything other than entertaining myself.) |
| 23:02 | < Shoukanjuu> | I do remember saying that I was not really into Pokemon, though |
| 23:02 | | * Vornicus has PuTTY on his usb stick for a reason. |
| 23:02 | < Shoukanjuu> | To which he asked how I knew he was cheating for pokemon stadium v_V |
| 23:02 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Shoukanjuu: bwahahahaha. :) |
| 23:02 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Shoukanjuu: that wasn't really all that kind, heh. ;P |
| 23:03 | <@Vornicus> | Shou: mass silliness |
| 23:03 | < Shoukanjuu> | I stopped paying attention to him when he started thinking he was the best at everything. Around the time when he started using ASM for fire emblem on the GBA |
| 23:04 | < Shoukanjuu> | I made a solid attempt to stay with him for a while, but then I got a job. >_> |
| 23:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...for writing one, or for hacking on an existing one? |
| 23:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Because the latter is, in fact, How It's Done. |
| 23:04 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: yes, but going "I use a disassembler, therefore I am superior to everyone else on the planet" isn't How It's Done. |
| 23:05 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: I mean, it's how a lot of people *do* Do It, but it's not a very good way of doing things. |
| 23:05 | < Shoukanjuu> | Hacking an existing one, but he's match patches |
| 23:05 | <@MyCatVerbs> | At least, I rarely find myself wanting to have anything to do with people who think that way, anyway. Admittedly it's all subjective, but rawr. |
| 23:06 | < Shoukanjuu> | I'm pretty sure he's the one who did hte anti-huffman patch |
| 23:06 | < Shoukanjuu> | Which I, again, am pretty sure is used to put your OWN TEXT into the GBA fire emblems >_> |
| 23:06 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Which is what? |
| 23:07 | <@McMartin> | A series of squad tactics RPGs. |
| 23:07 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Text replacement. Hrmn. |
| 23:08 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Hang on, what is the point of this? |
| 23:08 | < Shoukanjuu> | he also used ASM to create an Aimbot for Metroid Prime:Heroes |
| 23:08 | < Shoukanjuu> | Or...Was it heroes? Well, I can't remembe |
| 23:08 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Technically it sounds awkward and somewhat cool, but I'm not really seeing why to bother. |
| 23:08 | < Shoukanjuu> | MP:H |
| 23:09 | <@McMartin> | Hunters. |
| 23:09 | < Shoukanjuu> | MCV: His official response was that there wasn't a point in doing it, so he did. |
| 23:09 | < Shoukanjuu> | why did I think heroes? I'm so lame Xd; |
| 23:09 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Shoukanjuu: fair 'nuff. |
| 23:10 | | mode/#code [+oo Attilla_ C_tiger] by MyCatVerbs |
| 23:10 | | mode/#code [+moo Chalcedon Consul] by MyCatVerbs |
| 23:10 | <@McMartin> | Badass is writing a compiler to target your console. >_> |
| 23:10 | | mode/#code [-m] by MyCatVerbs |
| 23:10 | < Shoukanjuu> | ....>_> |
| 23:10 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Whoops, didn't mean to stab everyone in the mouth. |
| 23:10 | | mode/#code [+ooo crem Doctor_Nick GeekSoldier] by MyCatVerbs |
| 23:11 | | mode/#code [+o Shoukanjuu] by MyCatVerbs |
| 23:11 | <@MyCatVerbs> | (Haven't +o'd the NSGuest-1277 because I don't know who it is.) |
| 23:11 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Aw Heck, why not? But, restraint. :) |
| 23:11 | <@gnolam> | 'tis a Finn! |
| 23:11 | | mode/#code [+v NSGuest-1277] by MyCatVerbs |
| 23:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Text replacement is typically used for unofficial translations. |
| 23:12 | | Attilla_ is now known as Attilla |
| 23:12 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: ah, I see. Handy, I guess. |
| 23:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | But that's the thing. |
| 23:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | And is usually much harder than it sounds, because console game developers - especially on cartridge-based consoles - do all kinds of things to keep the space requirements down. |
| 23:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | FE7 and 8 had official translations |
| 23:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | And 6 had a fan translation |
| 23:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | (for added fun, consider the task of inserting new fonts, too) |
| 23:13 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It would have to be done for ROMs |
| 23:13 | <@Shoukanjuu> | but I've patched roms and played them on a flashcart, they run fine. |
| 23:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | (or patching in variable width font support) |
| 23:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't see how the first point relates to the second. |
| 23:13 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It doesn't *really* |
| 23:14 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Just saying it for the sake of it being said |
| 23:14 | <@Shoukanjuu> | He's doing things in Mischief makers, now. |
| 23:14 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: it does inasmuch as you don't have to worry about fitting the damn thing inside a few megs when you're on a flashcart, so it's fine to add masses of data. :) |
| 23:15 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: isn't it all "just" a case of making the constant data section larger (MIPS isn't segmented, is it?) and then adding the difference between the old and new all the JMPs to take into account the code being pushed up? |
| 23:16 | | * gnolam ponders relaunching his BESK emulator project. |
| 23:16 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: and then rewrite all the pointers to the starts of the strings, of course. I take it those machines don't use an ELF-style symbol table, of course. ;P |
| 23:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aahahahahahahaha. Pointers to the starts of strings? |
| 23:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, if you're lucky, that's what the game uses. |
| 23:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you're unlucky, they're compressed and unpacked into RAM at runtime - or, since RAM is dear, on a page-by-page basis as needed. |
| 23:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which means recompressing them. |
| 23:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | (or - this is probably easier - removing the text unpacking routines entirely) |
| 23:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | You might need to change the text rendering routines. If you're switching to variable width - and if you're translating from, say, japanese to english, you probably have to - this may require relocating the entire text handling system to make room. |
| 23:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've spoken to enough romhackers-for-translations to know I never want to get into that. |
| 23:25 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Well, the patch, as it were, shouldn't have to switch widths, since the width switch had already been done for patching to get the english translation for 6, or the offical ones, where it was done completely and...well, officially, for release in (U) and (E) |
| 23:26 | | * McMartin notes that if you're really unlucky, data and even code will be mixed in with the other materials. |
| 23:26 | <@McMartin> | Super Mario Brothers uses sprite data as map information. |
| 23:29 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I love how pointers are different with region codes. |
| 23:29 | | * Shoukanjuu stabs whoever thought of the thing that made people think of this. |
| 23:29 | <@McMartin> | Well, that's how localization works, right? |
| 23:30 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Well, yeah. >_> |
| 23:31 | <@Shoukanjuu> | But what do we have to do to make it unnecessary? |
| 23:31 | <@McMartin> | It's much easier to have all the strings in one place and rewrite a bunch of fixed-size data structures than it is to relink and repack every single byte of the code. |
| 23:31 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Oh, for sure. |
| 23:32 | <@McMartin> | So, uh, I don't see your objection here. |
| 23:32 | <@McMartin> | Or I misread the first bit. |
| 23:33 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: I didn't say making the thing support variable-width text would be easy. ;P |
| 23:33 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I don't not like pointers. |
| 23:33 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: do you at least get the mercy of the devs usually having used an at least nominally standard compression scheme? |
| 23:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Pfft |
| 23:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Maybe these days |
| 23:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | But I'm mostly coming from discussions about SNES and Genesis games |
| 23:34 | <@Shoukanjuu> | My dislike is of the need for localization. Imagine if it wasn't needed, because everything interacted the same way! One region code, for the region "Earth" |
| 23:35 | <@Shoukanjuu> | While we're at it |
| 23:35 | | * Shoukanjuu passes out drab gray jumpsuits |
| 23:35 | | * MyCatVerbs notes that, for him, that would probably be an improvement. |
| 23:36 | <@MyCatVerbs> | But not as much as if you were handing out paper bags to stuff on my head. :D |
| 23:37 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Tell me when it's time to celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directives. |
| 23:44 | | crem [~moo@Nightstar-28703.adsl.mgts.by] has quit [Quit: Ep0xa 1.2v] |
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| --- Log closed Wed Oct 01 00:00:08 2008 |