| --- Log opened Thu Sep 11 00:00:50 2008 |
| 00:27 | < Consul> | Hey, with this idea of using objects for the input and output ports, I can have the option of referring to the ports by a number or a name. That'll work. |
| 00:29 | < Consul> | Oh, wait, no... That would require adding a list where none would be needed otherwise. |
| 00:29 | < Consul> | Nevermind. |
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| 01:03 | < Consul> | I don't think I like this current design. Sure, it's nice and abstracted, but two function calls to get a single sample output times dozens or hundreds of devices times 44100 a second is a shit-ton of function calls that I don't think we need to be making. |
| 01:06 | < Consul> | I think I know why there's no Processing-like function-based framework for audio DSP: too expensive CPU-wise. |
| 01:06 | < Consul> | Unless I can find a clever solution while keeping the abstraction. |
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| 01:45 | <@McMartin> | Function calls aren't that expensive these days |
| 01:45 | <@McMartin> | And really, if you set -O3, the compiler will just write out the function contents for you half the time for short functions anyway |
| 01:45 | < Vornicus> | dynamic ones are still a bit pricey. |
| 01:46 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, but when you have stack objects in C++ they aren't dynamic calls. Or shouldn't be. |
| 01:47 | <@McMartin> | Likewise for non-pointer member objects. |
| 01:47 | <@McMartin> | Known type = all calls non-virtual |
| 01:48 | < Vornicus> | We're looking at, if I am reading Consul right, an .so to be a device. |
| 01:48 | <@McMartin> | Well, so, don't have your sole exposed interface be "process this one sample", then. |
| 01:48 | <@McMartin> | Have it be "process these 100,000 samples." |
| 01:49 | <@McMartin> | Or, more seriously, "here's an array with n elements, give me it back with the results after you run it all through" |
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| 01:52 | < Consul> | Well, devices will be objects, not .so files. |
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| 01:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, it doesn't have to be real time. |
| 01:53 | < Consul> | Well, yes it does. That's actually the supreme requirement, otherwise, I won't bother. |
| 01:54 | < Consul> | When I say "like Processing", I mean the way the code looks. |
| 01:55 | < Consul> | McMartin: And yes. typically, real-time DSP routines process audio in frames at a time, 64 samples being a typical frame size on most JACK-based machines. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | Directly linking the objects in should be extremely fast. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | How many clock cycles is a call instruction? |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | Your average decent machine these days is 2GHz. |
| 01:58 | <@McMartin> | That gives you approx 300 kilocycles per frame. |
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| 02:05 | < Consul> | I just think there's something I'm missing, and I need to figure it out. |
| 02:06 | < Consul> | Something, as in some design concept, or clever approach or idea. |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | Rule 1 is that Efficiency Is Nothing Until You Can Prove You Don't Have It. |
| 02:12 | <@McMartin> | Also, two function calls for an output? |
| 02:12 | <@McMartin> | What's the one besides "processSample"? |
| 02:12 | < Consul> | Well, the ports I had designed as a separate object to include inside blackboxes and breadboards. |
| 02:12 | < Consul> | Oh... |
| 02:13 | < Consul> | I had separated processing and grabbing output into separate functions, so that getting an output returns a value. I did this so that the output of a blackbox or breadboard could be composed inside another function call./ |
| 02:14 | < Consul> | So, you tell the object to process it's data, then you make calls to its ports to grab the results. |
| 02:15 | < Consul> | That way, the call to the port returns the value. |
| 02:17 | < Consul> | That way, you can compose functions: filter.process(oscillator.get(0)); |
| 02:17 | < Consul> | Something like that. |
| 02:18 | <@McMartin> | Oh, I see |
| 02:18 | <@McMartin> | I'd say you'd want process to return get() by default. |
| 02:18 | < Consul> | Except that won't work for processes with more than one output. |
| 02:19 | <@McMartin> | Indeed, but for the ones that do, you really do want filter2.process(filter1.process(input)) or whatnot |
| 02:20 | < Consul> | Except now, that makes the framework inconsistent. |
| 02:20 | < Consul> | And changes how you have to code depending on the process. |
| 02:21 | < Consul> | It's becoming clear that my goals will not be met. |
| 02:23 | < Consul> | Finally, my physics homework is mostly finished. |
| 02:24 | < Consul> | Our instructor likes to assign mostly the advanced problems. |
| 02:29 | < Consul> | There might be one way to build this framework out, but it would add a limitation to what can be used where. |
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| 02:39 | < Consul> | Bleh, frickin' acid reflux again. |
| 02:41 | < Consul> | I might have worked out how to have everything run at a frame rate, actually. I'll have to see if I can implement it cleanly. |
| 02:42 | <@McMartin> | If you have circuits that don't loop back and affect each other, you can process entire frames at once in each component. |
| 02:44 | < Consul> | See, looping back is a very common DSP structure. |
| 02:46 | < Consul> | Not direct feedback, though. There's always a delay line in the loop, even if only 1 sample. |
| 02:47 | < Consul> | Feedback without a delay does weird things, and is often unimplementable. |
| 02:47 | | * Vornotron whistles into a convenient microphone. |
| 02:49 | < Consul> | But yeah, what do you do on a directed graph when Device A is waiting for output from Device B which is waiting for output from Device A... |
| 02:50 | < Consul> | What happens when the irresistable force meets the immovable object? |
| 02:50 | < Consul> | Both women die. |
| 02:50 | < Consul> | :-D |
| 02:50 | | * Consul runs |
| 02:51 | < Shoukanjuu> | That was oddly immature, coming from this place. |
| 02:52 | | * Shoukanjuu vaguely remembers a certain game involving daleks and verbs that end in '-ate' |
| 02:52 | < Shoukanjuu> | Neverrmind. |
| 02:52 | < Consul> | Sorry, it won't happen again. Bad joke. |
| 02:52 | < Shoukanjuu> | I dont' care, why are you apologizing? I laughed at it because I'm immature XD |
| 02:52 | < Consul> | Heh |
| 02:53 | < Consul> | Anyway, the answer to the above Device A -> B -> A question hinges on the fact that B has to be or contain a delay. That way, it can give its output without needing its next input first. |
| 02:54 | < Consul> | Well, shit! I think I just solved my entire freaking problem! |
| 02:54 | | mode/#code [+o Vornotron] by Vornotron |
| 02:54 | <@Vornotron> | http://ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=4ygzc9qcj6rxhh1 <--- for Shou |
| 02:55 | | mode/#code [+oooo C_tiger Chalcy_ Consul GeekSoldier_] by Vornotron |
| 02:55 | | mode/#code [+ovv Shoukanjuu DiceBot crem] by Vornotron |
| 02:55 | <@Consul> | But two doses of soda water has done nothing to this serious reflux attack I'm having right now. I'll BRB. |
| 02:55 | <@Consul> | I need something else. |
| 03:02 | <@Consul> | Frag, all out of the heartburn pills. |
| 03:02 | <@Consul> | Guess I get to suffer. |
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| 14:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Wow. |
| 14:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | The openSUSE install CD is astonishingly slow in vbox2 |
| 15:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh wait |
| 15:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | It appears to be loading everything over the net |
| 15:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | That might have something to do with it |
| 15:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sigh |
| 15:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ask the user for a mirror |
| 15:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Do not default to the 50KBps mirror on another continent when there is a 2MBps one in the next city over |
| 15:06 | | Attilla_ is now known as Attilla |
| 15:38 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: or make like the Arch devs and ping all the known mirrors, then select the one with the lowest RTT? |
| 15:38 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: not infallible, but good enough. ^_^ |
| 15:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: I believe Debian has something similar, and often it's not good enough |
| 15:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is possible to get mirrors with very low latency but little bandwidth |
| 15:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | But yes, it would be nice to have that as an option too |
| 15:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | As it is it just attempts to download from the main site |
| 16:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | (I was actually considering Arch earlier, decided not to go with it. Doing everything by hand is not fun.( |
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| 17:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, I really like YAST. |
| 17:07 | <@jerith> | Either it's improved substantially since I last used it or you haven't tried to do anything weird. |
| 17:14 | < Vornicus> | yast? |
| 17:15 | <@jerith> | Yet Another Setup Tool. |
| 17:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | jerith: I haven't tried to do anything weird, but this doesn't rule out of the first option |
| 17:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: the SUSE installer/package manager/configuration manager |
| 17:15 | <@jerith> | SuSE's configurator and package manager. |
| 17:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Technically yast2 at this point |
| 17:15 | <@jerith> | The package management stuff is pretty cool. |
| 17:15 | < Vornicus> | aha |
| 17:16 | <@jerith> | I *think* it predated aptitude. It definitely predated yum. |
| 17:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have no idea what the command line version is yet, but the GUI is pretty nice |
| 17:16 | <@jerith> | I found the configuration stuff was a bit limiting, so I had to hack configs myself. |
| 17:17 | <@jerith> | Then YAST would screw up my hacked configs. |
| 17:17 | <@jerith> | I'm talking about the GUI stuff. Well, it was curses when I used it. |
| 17:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Haven't tried the curses interface either |
| 17:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm talking X11 |
| 17:18 | | * jerith nods. |
| 17:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | As for configuration, this is going to be a simple VM used for suberting the campus wireless security, so I won't be doing anything weird with it |
| 17:18 | <@jerith> | They were pretty much the same, although I found the X version rather slower due to a RAM shortage on that box. |
| 17:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have 256MB of memory and no swap in the VM~ |
| 17:19 | <@jerith> | Yay subversion! |
| 17:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | We'll see if it can go without the OOM killer whacking it |
| 17:19 | <@jerith> | I think I had 64 or something. |
| 17:19 | | * ToxicFrog ka-deletes OpenOffice |
| 17:19 | <@jerith> | It was a number of years ago. |
| 17:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ew, Subversion |
| 17:20 | <@jerith> | No, not the VCS. |
| 17:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, right |
| 17:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, first complaint: what the fuck are the X.Org versions? |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | 7.3-110.9 is not an X.Org version number! |
| 17:23 | | * jerith shrugs. |
| 17:23 | <@jerith> | My machines either don't have it or it Just Works. |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Eh? |
| 17:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, I mean, it's saying "Here is an update to X.org, to version <totally bogus version number>. You are currently running <other totally bogus version number>." |
| 17:24 | <@jerith> | (Except RHEL on this laptop, but I needed to play with the configs rather than versions.) |
| 17:24 | <@jerith> | Oh. |
| 17:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | I am interested in knowing what the real version number is because 1.5 doesn't play nice with VirtualBox |
| 17:24 | <@jerith> | Hmm. |
| 17:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | I *suspect* based on the contents of the changelog that it's 1.4 |
| 17:25 | | * jerith has an episode of Who to watch and an early supper to eat. |
| 17:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways, step one, kernel update |
| 17:26 | <@jerith> | What was that shop you liked again? I'll choose a drive this evening. :-) |
| 17:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...holy shit, it supports /\RPMs! |
| 17:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | canadacomputers.com |
| 17:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | I also use tigerdirect.ca and ncix.com, but CC is my favoured one |
| 17:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Gnar. Where be the command line package manager? |
| 17:42 | <@jerith> | I'm not dure there is one. |
| 17:42 | <@jerith> | *sure. |
| 17:42 | <@jerith> | You may be able to give YAST cmdline params to do it, though. |
| 17:46 | <@McMartin> | X --version |
| 18:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Thanks, but that only tells me what's currently installed. |
| 18:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | For all I know it's offering me the 1.4->1.5 update. |
| 18:02 | <@McMartin> | Aha, yes. |
| 18:02 | <@McMartin> | Snapshot your disk, update, revert if it's 1.5~ |
| 18:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Actually, I suppose I should first see if 2.0 added support for X.org 1.5 |
| 18:03 | <@jerith> | rpms aren't great at downgrading. :-/ |
| 18:03 | <@McMartin> | jerith: rpms cannot resist the power of block-level snapshot. |
| 18:03 | <@jerith> | Quite. |
| 18:04 | <@McMartin> | This is a VM image, so it's easy. If bulky. |
| 18:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | The host has 10GB to play with, so... |
| 18:27 | < Shoukanjuu> | I feel smart because I set up static IP without a hitch. Of course, this is one of the most simple things one can do. |
| 18:34 | < Shoukanjuu> | Namely, it's setting static IP up *again* and actually getting it to work, since the guy who did it at first obviously didn't know how. He was doing it because I had gaming consoles, of course. |
| 18:35 | < Shoukanjuu> | Either way, it works, and my port forwarding STILL doesn't want to work. :> |
| 18:38 | < Shoukanjuu> | It seems to be a modem related problem, but I need to gather information about running it in bridge mode to attempt a fix. |
| 18:45 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: Arch isn't _quite_ "do everything" by hand, but admittedly it's not all that far. |
| 18:45 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Er, that quote mark jumped two to the left for some reason. |
| 18:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: no, but it's close enough that I'm not terribly interested. |
| 18:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I want things to Just Work. I want hand-configuration to be possible, but not necessary. |
| 19:07 | <@jerith> | So, I want to write a basic period length detector. |
| 19:07 | <@jerith> | I have a sequence of items (integers in this case) which may or may not be periodic. |
| 19:08 | <@jerith> | Any ideas? |
| 19:09 | <@jerith> | I tried cutting the left and right bits off the sequence and comapring those until I either didn't have any left or found a match, but that doesn't work for two and a half periods. |
| 19:11 | <@jerith> | I don't mind finding multiples of the period. |
| 19:11 | <@jerith> | I just don't want it to find [1,2,3,4,1] as the periodic bit in [1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1]. |
| 19:14 | <@C_tiger> | well it's also periodic on 123412341 :P |
| 19:15 | <@jerith> | I want at least two periods in there. |
| 19:30 | < Vornicus> | Are all the points in the period distinct? |
| 19:32 | <@jerith> | Not necessarily. |
| 19:32 | <@jerith> | I think I got it, though. |
| 19:32 | < Vornicus> | then the way I was going to suggest won't work. |
| 19:33 | <@jerith> | http://rafb.net/p/qcjQ9l52.html |
| 19:33 | <@jerith> | Tortoise and hare was the first thing I thought of, but since the items aren't unique... |
| 19:35 | < Vornicus> | Yeah, that's what I was going to say |
| 19:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Gnar. I can't figure out what the KDE/SUSE equivalent of alt-tab is |
| 19:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, it's down to 4MB of memory free and has no swap. |
| 19:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | I should probably shut down the VM and give it more memory. |
| 19:51 | <@jerith> | Why SuSE, out of interest? |
| 19:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since I'm running in a VM anyways, I wanted to try out some other distros |
| 19:51 | <@jerith> | I'd've gone for something a little less Enterprisey... |
| 19:52 | <@jerith> | I thought it would be something like that. |
| 19:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Of the ones I've tried (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo, Lunar, Puppy, DSL, possibly a few others I'm forgetting) the only one I actually like for desktop use is Fedora |
| 19:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | But given a convenient opportunity to see if something is better, why not try it? |
| 19:54 | | * jerith nods. |
| 19:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | KDE is taking some getting used to. |
| 19:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | I like the menu search feature, I don't like the rest of the menu and I can't find the configuration widgets! |
| 19:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, hey, "switch to classic menu" |
| 19:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...but "configure desktop" doesn't actually do anything |
| 19:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 19:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | But right-clicking on it does. |
| 20:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | What the shit, the entire menu works like this?! |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, according to the configurator, alt-tab is alt-tab. |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | It just doesn't work. |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've also crashed Plasma twice by manipulating icons on the desktop. |
| 20:01 | < Vornicus> | Something tells me the machine isn't getting the right commands. |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not impressed by KDE4 so far. |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: this has worked in everything else I've run in the VM, including other linux guests |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | But this is the first KDE environment I've run in it |
| 20:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah, hang on |
| 20:03 | <@jerith> | I sort of liked KDE back when I was young and foolish. |
| 20:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, switching desktops has gotten alt-tab working |
| 20:03 | <@jerith> | But then I came to my senses. |
| 20:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's very slick and shiny, I like the overall look and feel and the searchable menu is tasty |
| 20:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | The problem is that when you actually try using it the wheels come off |
| 20:05 | <@jerith> | I find it (and to a lesser extent Gnome, etc.) too cluttered and busy. |
| 20:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | And seriously, in what universe is a menu "left-click on submenu to expand, left-click on item to show you its icon, right-click on item to activate it" |
| 20:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's less cluttered than gnome. |
| 20:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hell, it's less cluttered than XFCE. |
| 20:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...while using four times as much memory. |
| 20:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | What do you use, incidentally? |
| 20:06 | <@jerith> | fluxbox |
| 20:07 | <@jerith> | I want a taskbar thing, keybindings and empty space everywhere else that I can cover in terminals and browsers and things. |
| 20:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | fluxbox doesn't appear to be in the SUSE repos |
| 20:08 | <@jerith> | Really? |
| 20:08 | <@jerith> | Even Red Hat has it these days... |
| 20:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...opensuse.org claims it is, though |
| 20:12 | <@jerith> | Hmm. |
| 20:12 | <@jerith> | Fluxbox takes a bit of getting used to. |
| 20:12 | <@jerith> | It's sort of like WindowMaker but without all the crufty bits. |
| 20:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, hang on |
| 20:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's in the repos, but it's not in the official repos |
| 20:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | (what I want out of a desktop manager: taskbar, menu, desktop which can hold items, status tray, at least eight vdesks) |
| 20:14 | <@jerith> | You can get a desktop-with-icons addon for it. |
| 20:14 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, but then you might as well just use XFCE. |
| 20:15 | <@jerith> | The status tray just holds icons and things. |
| 20:15 | <@McMartin> | I'm running into this problem with the SDL version of the player that the desktop-change keys are getting intercepted. |
| 20:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | The status tray holds the stuff that tells me when the battery is about to run out, so |
| 20:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | And also which network I'm affixed to |
| 20:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | But yeah, I'm thinking I might just try XCFE on this as well |
| 20:15 | <@McMartin> | And Ctrl-Alt-Right is interpreted by the host as "ROTATE THE SCREEN 90 DEGREES" |
| 20:16 | <@jerith> | The menu comes from right-clicking on the desktop rather than a "start button" thing. |
| 20:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | jerith: the thing is, my desktop is usually covered in windows |
| 20:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is occasionally convenient to be able to access the menu without switching desktops |
| 20:18 | <@jerith> | I never use the menu, so. |
| 20:19 | <@jerith> | The taskbar thing doesn't cover the whole width of the desktop, though. |
| 20:19 | <@jerith> | So you should have space next to it. |
| 20:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Menu lets me start programs without tying up a terminal. |
| 20:20 | <@jerith> | I have Super-r bound to a run box. |
| 20:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 20:20 | <@jerith> | I really should try gnome-do or whatever it's called. |
| 20:20 | | * ToxicFrog tries to figure out what packages he needs to install to actually get XFCE |
| 20:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | I use menu for launching stuff, and yakuake for doing stuff |
| 20:21 | <@jerith> | Anyways, my way of doing things suits me and most people I know would find it very uncomfortable. |
| 20:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | I would like to use tilda, since that means not having to install and start All Of KDE, but it doesn't work :( |
| 20:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. My biggest complaint about XFCE is probably that Thunar sucks. |
| 20:24 | <@jerith> | gnome-do is awesome, but it takes several seconds to come up. |
| 20:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | What is it? |
| 20:24 | <@jerith> | It's inspired by OSX's Spotlight. |
| 20:24 | <@jerith> | You start typing and it finds stuff. |
| 20:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | As I don't use OSX, this tells me nothing at all. |
| 20:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 20:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | How broadly is "stuff" considered? |
| 20:25 | <@jerith> | Depends what plugins you have. |
| 20:25 | <@jerith> | I've only played with it for a couple of minutes, myself. |
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| 20:25 | < Vornicus> | It starts with filenames; it then works on comments (metadata) and then eventually contents. |
| 20:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Because it's sounding kind of like the KDE "new" menu, or Launchy, or the Vista menu |
| 20:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: I mean, where does it look, and how does it prioritize |
| 20:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Will it consider stuff in the menu? If so, before, after or at the same time as random files in /home? |
| 20:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Will executable files be considered more important than non-executable ones? |
| 20:26 | < Vornicus> | Starting in ~, and it categorizes things - there's a source code category, for instance |
| 20:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | But *not* the menu? So if I typed, say, "disk space" it would find nothing, but "baobab" would work? |
| 20:27 | < Vornicus> | spotlight on mac is a file search tool; I don't know what it does for apps cuz I've never looked |
| 20:28 | < Vornicus> | (mostly because i know where to find all my apps) |
| 20:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nod |
| 20:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | My approach to finding apps is generally to look in the menu; to finding documents, slocate |
| 20:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | <3 slocate |
| 20:29 | <@jerith> | Vorn: I hit "cmd-space fir\n" to start Firefox. |
| 20:29 | <@jerith> | Far quicker than mousing down to the dock. |
| 20:38 | <@McMartin> | Spotlight will find menu options in the currently active application, at least in 10.5. |
| 20:38 | <@McMartin> | As well as in /Applications, which is basically equivalent to searching Start. |
| 20:39 | < Vornicus> | It finds a lot of stuff. |
| 20:42 | <@McMartin> | (Also, re: XFCE, I've just been running Xubuntu directly) |
| 20:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | I dislike Ubuntu in general, so |
| 20:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways, switched over to XFCE and it seems to be working fine |
| 20:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | As it turns out, though, it's not that much more memory efficient than KDE, it just starts faster |
| 20:52 | | * ToxicFrog glares at XFCE |
| 20:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | The only panel size options appear to be "so large it overlaps other panels" or "so small it's useless" |
| 20:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | There does not appear to be a "as much space as is not used by other panels" option |
| 20:59 | <@McMartin> | My panels seem to grow across the taskbar as needed |
| 20:59 | <@McMartin> | (He says, getting rid of the Verve Command Line and moving the Terminal tab over to where it belongs) |
| 21:23 | <@jerith> | Meh. My method seems broken and I don't know why. |
| 21:23 | | * jerith decides to stop for now and try again tomorrow. |
| 21:23 | <@jerith> | 'Night all. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Sep 12 00:00:00 2008 |