| --- Log opened Wed Sep 03 00:00:33 2008 |
| 00:00 | <@McMartin> | "Why is this application downloading *the entire internet*?" |
| 00:01 | <@McMartin> | But yes, Consul, it looks like it's got its own idea of how to do JS, and that's driving a lot of the changes. |
| 00:01 | <@McMartin> | With luck, this will work out the way it did with GNU and C++. |
| 00:02 | <@Consul> | The way I see it, Google has a lot of very smart computer people, much smarter than me, and given their experience with the Internet in general, might have a good idea of how good one can make a browser. :-) |
| 00:02 | <@McMartin> | The testing framework is also a service that only they can reasonably provide. |
| 00:02 | <@McMartin> | (Reading the comic now) |
| 00:02 | <@McMartin> | (Yay illustration for fuzz testing too) |
| 00:04 | <@McMartin> | OK, I'll mess with this later |
| 00:04 | <@McMartin> | Probably as fuel for my own projects |
| 00:04 | | * ToxicFrog eyes the comic |
| 00:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | What makes Chrome "the first truly open source browser"? |
| 00:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, browsers are inherently singlethreaded? Wtf? |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | Yes. |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | Opera has been violating the standard for ages. |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | This is the primary reason it's faster, more efficient, and more stable than FF and IE. |
| 00:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | Only one tab is allowed to be running any JS at all at any given time. |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | This is, as Opera noted and Google is now officially stating, total bullshit |
| 00:06 | <@McMartin> | And it only serves to make XSS vulnerabilities do you more damage |
| 00:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | So it's not "browsers are intrinsically single-threaded", it's "the JS spec implies massive lock contention in any threaded browser" |
| 00:06 | <@McMartin> | Right. |
| 00:06 | <@McMartin> | To the point of near-total serialization for anything interesting. |
| 00:07 | <@Consul> | Keep in mind, that comic is probably not made for CS experts. |
| 00:07 | <@McMartin> | Well |
| 00:07 | <@Vornicus> | I already know a good deal of the stuff they talked about |
| 00:07 | <@McMartin> | I'm getting the definite feeling that it's intended for light technical, but was written by *web standards experts specifically*. |
| 00:07 | <@McMartin> | TF's objection there boiled down to not having heard about this "feature" of the JS spec |
| 00:08 | <@McMartin> | Which I learned in passing at USENIX last month. |
| 00:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: partly that, and partly the objection that this doesn't mean "browsers are inherently single threaded", it means "JS-standards-compliant browsers will see surprisingly little benefit from threading" |
| 00:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | The idea of using completely seperate processes to improve memory usage characteristics is a cool one. |
| 00:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Especially if it means fucking flash can only destroy one tab at a time. |
| 00:09 | <@McMartin> | Hee |
| 00:09 | <@McMartin> | Threads in general are almost always a bad idea. |
| 00:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | OTOH, opening up top and seeing 200 lines of chrome is very DO NOT WANT |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | If you can *at all* get away with processes it should really be your first stop. |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | (That's top's fault~) |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | (It used to not collapse threads too) |
| 00:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, top's and most other process managers |
| 00:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although some offer a "show heirarchy" mode that lets you collapse trees to show only the parent. |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | I have to admit, I've used SysInternals's ProcessExplorer once |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | And it's already spoiled me forever |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | wtb curses edition for POSIX systems |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | (It does that, among other things. And draws it in a tree view in the first place) |
| 00:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah |
| 00:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Process Explorer is in fact one of the things I was thinking of |
| 00:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have it installed, and hotkeyed, on all (two of) my windows systems |
| 00:15 | | * ToxicFrog idly kicks the Google comic reader in the balls. What's wrong with using real HTML rather than javascript? |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | Also, if I had to take a stab at what they meant by "truly open source" I'd guess it was the RMS standard |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | Where, you know, BSD isn't truly open source. |
| 00:18 | <@McMartin> | (In other news, poking around the new VBox source code) |
| 00:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | New is 1.x or 2.0? |
| 00:19 | <@McMartin> | (Shared folders and OpenGL forwarding appear to be the same interface, though OpenGL forwarding also doesn't appear to, like, work.) |
| 00:19 | <@McMartin> | 1.6.6 |
| 00:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aha |
| 00:19 | <@McMartin> | 2.0 was either delayed or I misunderstood the Sun guys. |
| 00:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, I've given up on using virtualized windows as a wireless gateway, since for some reason it can't associate with wireless networks while running in the VM |
| 00:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | (although linux can, and windows can talk wireless just fine running natively) |
| 00:19 | <@McMartin> | Weird. |
| 00:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | So now I'm looking at booting my installed linux system from inside windows using virtualbox. |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | Hence the partition-ripping you were trying before? |
| 00:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, that was for migrating an installed windows to an independent VM (as opposed to booting it directly). |
| 00:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Here, I want to boot it directly, so it's just a single VBoxManage command to create the indirection image and then I boot from that. |
| 00:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | First stumbling block: X completely loses its shit when it starts up and sees that none of the video hardware it knows and loves is present. |
| 00:21 | <@McMartin> | v. I can upload some stuff to append to xorg.conf if you want for that |
| 00:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | That would be wonderful. |
| 00:22 | <@Vornicus> | Looking at it, it looks like they mean closer to BSD than to GPL - they mention later on that you don't have to share patches or anything. |
| 00:22 | <@McMartin> | http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/misc/new-x-conf.txt |
| 00:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Especially if the resulting configuration will work both natively and in the VM without me needing to swap xorg.conf around. |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | It's the blank vesa driver at 1024x768 and really ought to Just Work Everywhere. |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | You may want to add more options to the Screen section. |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | But this worked in VMWare and VirtualBox simultaneously, so hopefully it would also work on raw hardware. |
| 00:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, 1024x768 will not cut it on a 1280x800 laptop |
| 00:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not without looking physically painful, anyways. |
| 00:24 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, so, change those numbers~ |
| 00:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | This also hoses DRI, but what the hell, DRI is uselessly slow on integrated Intel graphics anyways |
| 00:24 | <@McMartin> | DRI is likely to suck regardless, unless the Linux Guest Services make it work |
| 00:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | This is in the "I would like it to still work when booted natively" box |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | Oh, right. |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | Aaaactually |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | My xorg.conf fu is weak |
| 00:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Similarly, I am wondering if it is safe to install the Guest Additions in a system you are planning to boot natively at some point |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | Can you define multiple devices and will it then probe them in sequence? |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | So if it can't find your native card, it will fail back to Vesa? |
| 00:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Good question |
| 00:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've never tried |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | Because that would be ideal |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | And I've never tried, but I suspect it would. |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | But I wouldn't try it on a real system. |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | VMWare's guest services are fine in a non-VMWare environment. |
| 00:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've suffered so much with X over the years that these days I tend to just throw X -configure at it and if the result works at my native resolution I never touch it again ever |
| 00:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | ....hmm. |
| 00:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | I will try merging this with my existing xorg.conf, and see if I can get it to work in both |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | (And yeah, I got this by having Puppy Linux do that on a stock VBox install) |
| 00:32 | <@Doctor_Nick> | i have puppy linux running off a 128mb flash drive on my laptop without a hard drive |
| 00:32 | <@Doctor_Nick> | its pretty neat |
| 00:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Puppy is pretty awesome, yeah |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | It's good at that |
| 00:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have it on a 256 myself |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | Though at the moment my Tiny Linux of choice is DSL but that's due to the stuff installed by default |
| 00:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | With some custom modifications to support a SFS pup_save |
| 00:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. I see Chrome is borrowing the launchpad from Opera. |
| 00:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | I do hope you can configure it to have more than nine sites. |
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| 00:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, having read the chapter on UI: they're clearly at least thinking the right way, but they have a very high bar to clear. |
| 00:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok. |
| 00:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Final impressions: their comic reader fucking sucks and should die in a fire and be replaced with HTML that is, at least, static on the client; gears is poorly explained (by which I mean "it isn't explained"); UI-wise they have a very high standard to live up to and if the anti-malware system is anywhere near as obnoxious as google's they had damn well better have included a way to turn it off. |
| 00:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | All that said, it looks pretty cool and I want to try it out. |
| 00:45 | <@McMartin> | anywhere near as obnoxious as google's |
| 00:45 | <@McMartin> | Aren't they google? |
| 00:46 | <@McMartin> | Or was that "as obnoxious as Firefox's"? |
| 00:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | google search's, that is |
| 00:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | not google-the-entity, google.ca-the-website |
| 00:46 | <@McMartin> | Oh |
| 00:46 | <@McMartin> | So, if it's as bad as FF3, then~ |
| 00:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | "Hi! You're going to a site that we think contains malware! Copy-paste the entire URL into the address bar!" |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | Oh, that's not as bad as FF3's. |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | FF3's is "NO PAGE FOR YOU" |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | "If you want to see it anyway, please disable this mode in a menu six levels deep" |
| 00:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | This is why I don't use firefox |
| 00:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | ~ |
| 00:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...ok, I can't seem to download it. |
| 00:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | I can "learn more", and that has a download link... |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | Wait, haven't you been using it? |
| 00:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...which takes me back to the top level |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | Oh, guess not~ |
| 00:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, I was reading the comic |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | Ian's been using it all day |
| 00:48 | <@Consul> | ToxicFrog: If you're running Mac or Linux, there is no download yet. |
| 00:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Consul: I'm running linux. I want to download the windows version to install on my windows machines. |
| 00:49 | <@Consul> | Heh |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | The download link is on the first Chrome page |
| 00:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | After going back and forth several times it looks like there is no "let me download the version for an OS other than what my browser identifies as" option |
| 00:49 | <@Consul> | ToxicFrog: You're gonna be pissed, then, because I can't find out how to get to the download otherwise. They really love to play god with that "detect OS" thing. |
| 00:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | This makes the second EPIC FAIL with web design of the chrome project |
| 00:50 | <@McMartin> | Try http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html?hl=en&brand=CHMI&utm_source=en-et&utm_med ium=et&utm_campaign=en |
| 00:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which does not make me optimistic of their browser design skills |
| 00:50 | <@Consul> | That would be my first complaint: "Assume I'm not a moron and let me download it anyway." |
| 00:51 | | * ToxicFrog rummages around for a contact email |
| 00:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh what the fuck, the installer isn't even redistributable |
| 00:53 | | * ToxicFrog gets out the pliers |
| 00:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | there will be blood |
| 00:53 | <@McMartin> | Or you could wait for it to actually be done. |
| 00:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | If it's not done yet, maybe they should be finishing it rather than: |
| 00:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | (1) writing complicated javascript tricks on the comic page that don't work |
| 00:53 | <@McMartin> | (that's almost certainly the Google Reader guys) |
| 00:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | (2) doing user-agent jackassery to keep people from downloading it if they're running anything other than windows |
| 00:54 | <@McMartin> | (Which is almost certainly the Google Code/Labs guys) |
| 00:54 | <@McMartin> | And can't you just lie on your user-agent request? |
| 00:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | (3) writing an installer that downloads another installer which then installs the browser with no user interaction of any kind, including things like "don't fucking put it in the quicklaunch bar you asshole" and "I would really appreciate it if you don't install on C:" |
| 00:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah, ok, the first of those is configurable, the options just aren't exposed by default |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | You can indeed turn off their malware blockers. |
| 00:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | So I see. |
| 00:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | UI and configurability in general is ;.;, but it's still beta so they get a pass on that for now. |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | If you want configurability, go with FireFox, which is so configurable it's JavaScript all the way down~ |
| 00:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | And still fails. |
| 00:58 | <@McMartin> | Or you could keep using Opera since it appears to be your standard of measuring everything else~ |
| 00:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | I use Opera, which understands requests like "please make the tab list scrollable and on one side of the browser, because I have two hundred of the things" |
| 00:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | And, for that matter, is accomodating of requests like "don't crash when I open 200 tabs" |
| 00:59 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, see, "makes my totally pathological use case convenient" means you don't migrate. |
| 00:59 | <@McMartin> | And FF3 has scrolled tabs anyway. |
| 01:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | For configuration in general, opera is almost as good as FF for exposing internal configuration (opera:config/about:config), and much much better about exposing it without needing to use the raw configuration editor - |
| 01:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | - and overwhelmingly, brutally superior in pretty much every way when it comes to UI customization. |
| 01:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can basically put anything anywhere (or nowhere, or in multiple places...) and there's a lot of everything. |
| 01:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Without needing to write extensions for it. |
| 01:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | And, yes, my standard use case is kind of extreme, so the ability to configure the browser to accomodate it is a big deal. |
| 01:01 | <@McMartin> | The thing is, because it's extreme, it's only going to be hit by chance. |
| 01:02 | <@McMartin> | The ability to make your use case work doesn't actually require everything between your use case and mine. |
| 01:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | How do you mean? |
| 01:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | (gnar, even the program itself doesn't have any contact information I can find!) |
| 01:02 | <@McMartin> | Essentially, there are maybe two or three capabilities the presence of which make your use case viable |
| 01:02 | <@McMartin> | And the absence of which make it impossible |
| 01:03 | <@McMartin> | And this is completely independent of all other configuration options. |
| 01:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Granted. |
| 01:03 | <@McMartin> | Also, it doesn't appear to do FF3-style scrolling tabs, so your 200-tab technique won't work at present. |
| 01:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, I still maintain that in general opera has the most configurable UI by a long shot of all the browsers (opera, FF1/2/3, IE5/6/7, chrome, safari, elinks, lynx) I've used. |
| 01:04 | <@McMartin> | Sure. |
| 01:04 | <@McMartin> | But that has almost nothing to do with your ability to use it in your preferred way. |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | Because there's exactly one checkbox that matters. |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | "Do tabs scroll or shrink to fit the space?" |
| 01:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Granted, although it does mean I can move all the other UI widgets around to work optimially with it |
| 01:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | What I would actually like is a full tab heirarchy |
| 01:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Opera's already using a TreeView for the tab display mode I'm using |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | Some of us use windows for exactly this purpose. |
| 01:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | (as opposed to the bloated custom tab widgets common to all tabbed apps, including opera in its default configuration) |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | See, you're literally the only person on Earth I know who would need that. |
| 01:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, but this clutters up the taskbar, there's no easy way to affix a name to a window, and it still only gives me two levels of organization! |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | Clearly enough other people do that Opera thought it was worthwhile to do from a $$$ perspective. |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | But I've never seen it and still consider it pathological |
| 01:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | What I want is, say, one tree for stuff I check regularly, and divide that into news/writing/comics, and those into daily/thrice weekly/weekly/other |
| 01:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Possibly invert those last two |
| 01:07 | | * Vornicus rarely has more than three tabs/windows open. Hasn't hit six in more than a month. |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, see, I set each set of tabs up once, then pick "create new bookmarks folder from current tabs" |
| 01:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | And stuff I'm not checking regularly, sort into, say, entertainment, reference, work... |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | And then choose "open this set of bookmarks in tabs" when I want to look at them. |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | It caps at 12. |
| 01:08 | <@McMartin> | And the bookmarks *have* a tree view. |
| 01:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | I like being able to hilight a whole bunch of tabs, refresh them all at once, and then just walk down them. |
| 01:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | In fairness, my stable tab count is generally under a hundred. |
| 01:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's when I'm reading forums, news, wikis, etc and I open a new tab for each link that the tab count gets really high. |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | Right, see, I push a button on Bookmarks, get a bunch of tabs, and then walk down them. |
| 01:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't use bookmarks. |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | And that never gets me above a dozen. |
| 01:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | I probably should, but it takes effort. |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | That's a fatal flaw in Opera's UI then compared to FF~ |
| 01:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 01:10 | <@McMartin> | FF has "Take all the tabs in this window and bookmark all of them in a way that I can open any individual one, or all of them at once, with a single menu selection" |
| 01:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | It takes effort in FF too. |
| 01:10 | <@McMartin> | As a button |
| 01:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | So does Opera. |
| 01:10 | <@McMartin> | So, uh, how is that more effort than doing a reselect and refresh every time. |
| 01:10 | <@McMartin> | It strikes me that pushing one button is noticably less work. |
| 01:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Keeping the tabs open is easier than loading the bookmark set, reading them all and then closing them. |
| 01:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | (having tested it just now, Opera does kind of fail at mass-bookmarking tab subsets - if I select ten tabs and tell it to bookmark, it asks me to name each one individually) |
| 01:12 | <@McMartin> | (That also sounds like it breaks hierarchy) |
| 01:12 | <@McMartin> | (Doing this serially in Firefox turns your bookmarks into the treeview) |
| 01:15 | <@McMartin> | (Since it's "make a new folder, then jam all these tabs into it as bookmarks) |
| 01:15 | <@McMartin> | (In FF2 opening bookmark folders wiped out all your tabs, but this is happily no longer the case in FF3.) |
| 01:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. Yeah, playing with it, Opera has vastly inferior bookmark, and in particular bookmark<->tab, support |
| 01:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although you can easily add a custom menu entry that mimics either the FF2 or FF3 behaviour of opening a bookmark-folder in tabs |
| 01:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not sure if you can the tabs-to-bookmark-folder direction that easily, though |
| 01:17 | <@McMartin> | FF3's behavior is still basically wrong |
| 01:18 | <@McMartin> | Since the first page loaded replaces the page shown, instead of adding them *all* as new tabs. |
| 01:18 | <@McMartin> | This is only acceptable if the page shown is about:blank |
| 01:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm unsure whether opera will behave the same as FF3 or simply create new tabs for all of them, in this case |
| 01:18 | <@Consul> | Well, in a bit I need to run off and boot into Windows so I can run these stupid interactive problems from the electronic textbook on my computer (physics class). |
| 01:19 | <@Consul> | Through no fault of my own, this physics class will be my first non-A. |
| 01:19 | <@Consul> | One problem we were assigned was a particularly difficult motion problem, involving fireworks. The instructor couldn't even solve it for us today. |
| 01:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | The behaviour of bookmarks in general leads me to believe it'll mimic FF3, though |
| 01:20 | <@Consul> | Why is he assigning problems even he can't solve? |
| 01:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although I bet you could work around that by changing it from "Open Link" to "Open New Tab; Open Link" |
| 01:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, yes, after this investigation I have to consider the possibility that my tab-heavy browsing habits are at least partially a result of Opera's poor support for managing large sets of bookmarks. |
| 01:29 | <@McMartin> | I note that nobody even started to do it right until late-era FF2, because I didn't start picking up this habit until the FF3 beta was showing up in all the distros. |
| 01:30 | <@McMartin> | At which point my "update cycle" was Ctrl-N, Bookmarks, select, "Open all in Tabs", repeat by topic |
| 01:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | I started using Opera in 200...3, I think, so~ |
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| 14:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 14:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | I can't seem to come up with an xorg.conf that will automatically work no matter which video card is present. |
| 14:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although I have managed to make one where I only need to change one line. |
| 14:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...that's new. |
| 14:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | I told it to install guest additions and the VM vanished. |
| 14:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | The top level claims it's still running, though. |
| 14:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...and after exiting the top level, it won't start again. |
| 14:53 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 14:58 | < Consul> | Okay, why is the openFramework OO (C++) tutorial telling people to define constants using #define? |
| 14:58 | < Consul> | Isn't it better to use the const keyword? |
| 16:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 16:23 | <@TheWatcher> | In general, yes. static const gives you typesafeness that #define doesn't |
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| 21:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Wow. |
| 21:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fedora 9 fails so very, very hard at figuring out video when installed inside virtualbox. |
| 21:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | It appears to be running at 1600x1200 - note that my native res is 1280x800 - but the resolution configuration thing lists 640x480 as the only available resolution. |
| 21:29 | <@TheWatcher> | ... that's impressive |
| 22:04 | <@McMartin> | I wonder how much of that is VBox's VESA driver claiming to be able to support literally everything. |
| 22:05 | | * McMartin is meanwhile attempting to figure out how to get the OSE versions of the Guest Additions to actually install right on XP. |
| 22:06 | <@McMartin> | There's a Google Code project on this but it's 2 releases behind. |
| 22:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: probably the first half of it |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | The second half, the display configurator only listing 640x480, is definitely a problem with fedora |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | Agreed |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | (Or, well, whatever it's using to config with.) |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | Though Ubuntu only thought it could do 800x600. |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since if the graphics hardware reports that it only supports 640x480, it shouldn't be defaulting to 1600x1200, and if it reports that it supports more, it should be listing those |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | I suspect this is "Oh, this is a VESA card, those suck" somewhere under the hood. |
| 22:13 | | * McMartin suggests unleashing that xorg.conf block again~ |
| 22:14 | < Consul> | TheWatcher: Thanks for the answer. (I had to run off to class.) |
| 22:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: updating first in case it magically fixes itself |
| 22:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...also, I don't know if this is a fedora 9 thing or an xfce thing, but the default system update applet can DIAF |
| 22:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | applet: hey! updates! |
| 22:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | me: cool. Update please. |
| 22:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | applet: root password? |
| 22:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | me: ************************* |
| 22:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | applet: thanks. bye! |
| 22:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Much later, I think to scroll the viewport over to the systray and see that what it's done is - without, I note, telling me what it will be updating and installing - started downloading all the updates in the background. |
| 22:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | YOU ARE NOT WINDOWS UPDATE. KEEP ME INFORMED OR BE PERMANENTLY REMOVED FROM MY SYSTEM. |
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| 22:43 | <@Shoukanjuu> | >;3 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Sep 04 00:00:43 2008 |