| --- Log opened Tue Aug 05 00:00:30 2008 |
| --- Day changed Tue Aug 05 2008 |
| 00:00 | | crem [~moo@Nightstar-28703.adsl.mgts.by] has joined #code |
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| 00:01 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:06 | <@Kazriko> | ToxicFrog, I'm up to 59 with laharl, and I have 2 battles left. My levels fall off fast though, 8th best is a lvl 45 prism mage |
| 01:08 | | * Kazriko has a bazillion chars though, one for every class he unlocks. |
| 01:09 | <@Kazriko> | Including a galaxy skull, yay |
| 01:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | >_> |
| 01:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | You know in my day |
| 01:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | We had calculators |
| 01:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | And...uh |
| 01:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | We threw rocks and stuff |
| 01:14 | < Shoukanjuu> | >_> |
| 01:14 | <@Kazriko> | for strategy games? :) |
| 01:14 | < Shoukanjuu> | It should be noted that Shiva can destroy a Megatank. |
| 01:15 | | * Shoukanjuu references Advnce Wars, Fire Emblem, and FFT. |
| 01:17 | | * Kazriko likes FFT and Advance wars, hasn't tried fire emblem |
| 01:18 | < Shoukanjuu> | Then you have not lived. |
| 01:18 | < Shoukanjuu> | Thracia 776 is my favorite .-. |
| 01:19 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-13764.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
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| 01:22 | <@Kazriko> | original FFT or FFTA? |
| 01:23 | < Shoukanjuu> | Original. |
| 01:23 | < Shoukanjuu> | Because that's closer to "back in the day" than FFTA. |
| 01:24 | <@Kazriko> | yeah. That one was great. FFTA was good, but not quite as... |
| 01:24 | <@Kazriko> | Front Mission is good too |
| 01:24 | < Shoukanjuu> | Yeah |
| 01:24 | < Shoukanjuu> | And it has mechs. |
| 01:24 | <+Consul> | FFT is great, but it can introduce latency into a signal. |
| 01:24 | | * Consul ducks and runs. |
| 01:24 | <@Kazriko> | heh |
| 01:25 | < Shoukanjuu> | And any game that has mechs is good. |
| 01:26 | < Shoukanjuu> | Super Robot wars, if you happen to like telling people "Don't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you" |
| 01:27 | < Vornicus> | I suxx0rz at FFT. |
| 01:28 | <+Consul> | Yeah, I can never figure out what to do with the imaginary part. |
| 01:28 | | * Consul again ducks and runs. |
| 01:28 | < Vornicus> | Advance Wars I'm okay at, and I love the combat setup enough that I want a Civ-style game with that kind of setup. |
| 01:29 | <+Consul> | I could be a stand-up comedian to about 100 people on the Earth. |
| 01:29 | < Shoukanjuu> | Well, with TBS games, you don't get the micromanagement hax that plague RTS games. |
| 01:31 | <@Kazriko> | nod. |
| 01:31 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-13764.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #code [MORE constitution LESS destitution MORE pros...perity.] |
| 01:31 | <@Kazriko> | Vornicus, civilization revolution should be out soon for ds |
| 01:32 | < Shoukanjuu> | I don't think I ever have played a civ game. |
| 01:32 | <@Kazriko> | I played the PS3 one, and it is a bit similar to advance wars |
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| 01:55 | <@Kazriko> | 2nd to last fight was tough, only laharl left... |
| 01:59 | <@Kazriko> | lvl 64. heh |
| 01:59 | <@Kazriko> | 5 levels in one round... |
| 02:02 | <@Kazriko> | This is such a niche game, flawed by modern standards but perfect for a small group. |
| 02:15 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 04:18 | | * ToxicFrog upreads |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think Civ Rev is out already, no? |
| 04:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | FFT is frustrating, because the PSX version is technically great but the translation is not up to the task, and the PSP version has an excellent translation but is plagued by technical issues. |
| 04:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's not particularly difficult, though. |
| 04:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | AW is tasty. |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Front Mission is...2 I haven't played, 1 I've only lightly touched on, 3 is excellent but there's so damn much of it and the lack of free-roaming means that if you get stuck the entire game grinds to a halt, and 4 would be good if it |
| 04:21 | <@McMartin> | "4 would be good if it..." |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | didn't keep switching between two storylines, one of which is populated by characters who to a man I wish would die in a fire. |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, that was a spurious \n, not a line limit; xchat auto-splits. |
| 04:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | In short, the concept fills me with SQUEE but the execution I find merely ok, not excellent. |
| 04:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | All that said, I do need to finish both storylines of FM3 at some point, as well as seriously try out FM1. |
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| 06:00 | < Shoukanjuu> | Wait, you said Disgaea is a niche game? |
| 06:00 | < Shoukanjuu> | What does that even mean? |
| 06:00 | < Shoukanjuu> | As of now, it's more mainstream than any turn based strategy >_> |
| 06:36 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 08:11 | < AFKSkull> | the niche of rpgs thaat are popular enough to get ovas made of em? |
| 08:28 | <@Kazriko> | It's really niche, but it's a very popular niche now. |
| 08:29 | <@Kazriko> | A relatively small audience when compared to the likes of MGS or even Final fantasy |
| 08:29 | <@Kazriko> | probably 1/4th the audience of FF actually |
| 08:36 | < AFKSkull> | small relative to final fantasy isn't small at all compared to games like, say, Aquaria. |
| 08:36 | <@Kazriko> | nod... |
| 08:37 | <@Kazriko> | but a typical FF game sells around 5 mil in the US |
| 08:37 | <@Kazriko> | 1 mil is high, but on the border of niche. I'm still trying to locate exact figures |
| 08:38 | <@Kazriko> | er, 5 mil worldwide? |
| 08:38 | <@Kazriko> | i can't remember |
| 08:46 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 08:57 | <@Kazriko> | if the highly inaccurate vgchartz is to be believed, disgaea has sold less than 150k copies |
| 08:58 | <@Kazriko> | that's only in japan though. they don't seem to have us figures for it. |
| 08:59 | <@Kazriko> | afternoon of darkness, 100k in the us |
| 09:00 | <@Kazriko> | FF Tactics, 620k |
| 09:01 | <@Kazriko> | for the PSP |
| 09:01 | <@Kazriko> | 2.45 mil for PS1 |
| 09:02 | <@Kazriko> | 1.55mil for crisis core, so more like 1/10th of the sales as one of FF's pure fanservice games. |
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| 13:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Crisis Core was actually pretty good, apart from the whole HEY LETS USE THE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR FOR EVERYTHING |
| 13:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | And the encounter system. |
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| 15:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Perl gurus! |
| 15:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, perl guru |
| 15:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Can I use inside a function? |
| 15:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | eg: |
| 15:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | sub getSysinfoFromLiveSG { |
| 15:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | use WWW:Curl::Easy; |
| 15:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | # code goes here |
| 15:16 | | * ToxicFrog pokes TheWatcher with a scalar |
| 15:19 | <@TheWatcher> | No |
| 15:19 | <@TheWatcher> | you can use require though |
| 15:19 | <@Derakon[AFK]> | IIRC 'use' is a preprocessor directive. |
| 15:20 | <@TheWatcher> | Require will do more less the same thing, but you don't get compile-time checks |
| 15:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 15:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | What I'm after here is not loading it unless it's actually needed, as www-curl isn't guaranteed to be installed |
| 15:23 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, 'require www::Curl::Easy; my $curl = WWW::Curl::Easy -> new();' should work |
| 15:31 | | * TheWatcher idly stabs DBD::mysql for not giving me utf-8 even when I set it to |
| 15:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. Actually, it looks like it's easier to just call out to curl using `` |
| 16:49 | <@Vornicus> | So. |
| 16:49 | <@McMartin> | That reminds me |
| 16:49 | <@Vornicus> | Today I went in and talked to my advisor about how I really shouldn't need to take the introductory programming courses. |
| 16:50 | <@Vornicus> | He said I had to prove it. |
| 16:50 | <@McMartin> | At some point when I'm not preparing to head to work I should learn how to make ncurses properly accept UTF-8 input. |
| 16:50 | <@Vornicus> | He gave me a challenge. |
| 16:50 | <@Vornicus> | ...I'm not sure what exactly he's thinking... |
| 16:50 | <@McMartin> | a challenge? |
| 16:50 | <@Vornicus> | I have to implement a B-tree. |
| 16:51 | <@McMartin> | People still use balanced trees that aren't red-black? |
| 16:51 | <@Vornicus> | I know some filesystems use b-trees. |
| 16:52 | <@Vornicus> | But the thing is, deletion from a B-tree is one of those awful things loaded with corner cases. |
| 16:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Maybe that's why he chose it. |
| 16:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although ISTR red-black trees being full of corner cases as well. |
| 16:53 | <@McMartin> | That said, you may want to ping him with a "You do realize B-Tree deletion is a horrific mess compared to many other superior data structures such as red-black trees, AHD trees, etc.) |
| 16:53 | <@McMartin> | red-black trees have something like four cases and it's not clear which ones are the corners. |
| 16:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | But yeah, ask him why B-trees rather than some other more common structure, and if applicable what languages you're allowed to use |
| 16:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: what's the perl equivalent of bash's "foo && bar o |
| 16:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: what's the perl equivalent of bash's "foo && bar || baz"? |
| 16:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Can I just do something like: if (`foo`) { bar } else { baz }? |
| 16:57 | <@Vornicus> | He wants it in C or C++, I know that much |
| 16:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah well. |
| 16:58 | <@Vornicus> | I also know he wants the nodes to be stored in files. Which is why you use B-trees anyway - they're designed to minimize the number of nodes you look at (as opposed to the number of data points you compare to) |
| 17:00 | <@Vornicus> | So, mass insanity now ensues, because I need to remember how to use C/C++ |
| 17:01 | <@TheWatcher> | TF: what is it you're trying? |
| 17:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: call curl; if it succeeds (exit(0)) do something, otherwise do something else |
| 17:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: it's like riding a bike; you never forget how. |
| 17:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | No matter how hard you try ?? |
| 17:06 | <@Vornicus> | ;_; |
| 17:08 | <@TheWatcher> | `$curlcommand`; if($?) { exit(0) } else { somethingelse } |
| 17:09 | <@TheWatcher> | backticks give you the output of the command, not the numeric success/failure - that's stored in $? |
| 17:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Alright |
| 17:09 | <@Kazriko> | McMartin, 2-3 tree deletion is even worse, So bad that I haven't seen anyone yet publish code to do it |
| 17:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | What's perl for false? |
| 17:09 | <@Vornicus> | There's a whole list of actions for b-tree deletion on wikipedia. |
| 17:11 | <@Kazriko> | Ahh, I haven't done this search in awhile, I just found some pseudocode for it |
| 17:11 | <@Vornicus> | Anyway, I have the SLEEP MADNESS |
| 17:13 | <@TheWatcher> | TF: "", or 0 |
| 17:13 | <@TheWatcher> | or undef |
| 17:17 | <@McMartin> | Note that 0 is 0, not things that evaluate to 0 |
| 17:17 | <@McMartin> | "0 but true" is both 0 and true. |
| 17:18 | | * McMartin finishes his administration tasks for frotz. |
| 17:18 | | * Vornicus flees screaming from 0 maybe being true and maybe being false. |
| 17:18 | < Shoukanjuu> | Everything I say is a lie? |
| 17:19 | <@Vornicus> | I mean, Pick One Dammit, or Yell At Me Dammit |
| 17:19 | <@McMartin> | It's a consistent rule~ |
| 17:19 | <@McMartin> | It's not a numeric-type object that is 0, and it's not a string-type object that is "". |
| 17:19 | <@McMartin> | But if you coerce the string to a number, the number is 0. |
| 17:19 | <@McMartin> | But boolean checks don't bother with coercion |
| 17:20 | <@Vornicus> | oh, that's a string |
| 17:20 | <@Vornicus> | You're not quoting language |
| 17:20 | <@McMartin> | Indeed |
| 17:20 | <@McMartin> | Sorry, that was clear. |
| 17:20 | < Shoukanjuu> | I should make that my new name on forums I frequent. |
| 17:20 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, that's more sane |
| 17:20 | <@McMartin> | Er, unclear. |
| 17:21 | < Shoukanjuu> | 0 But True. |
| 17:21 | <@McMartin> | (any string that starts with 0 and then non-numbers has this property) |
| 17:21 | < Shoukanjuu> | \o/ |
| 17:22 | <@McMartin> | but "if ($x == 0)" and "if (!$x)" are thus not equivalent. |
| 17:24 | <@McMartin> | As I leave, I also note that apparently Qt4 has native Cocoa bindings, and this is pretty awesome. |
| 17:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh jesus fuck no |
| 17:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | 0 == "0" is true in perl ;.; |
| 17:27 | < Shoukanjuu> | \o/? |
| 17:28 | <@Vornicus> | Shoukanjuu: no. |
| 17:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | No! Bad! |
| 17:28 | < Shoukanjuu> | Oh.Okay. |
| 17:29 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, yes, perl will coerce the string into a number and then compare. |
| 17:29 | < Shoukanjuu> | Which is bad...? |
| 17:29 | <@Vornicus> | Weak (typing) sauce |
| 17:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Shoukanjuu: it means that any string starting with 0 followed by non-numerics is equal to 0 |
| 17:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not just "equal to 0 for the purposes of mathematical operations", but equal to zero full stop |
| 17:30 | < Shoukanjuu> | That's what I thought. |
| 17:30 | < Shoukanjuu> | That IS bad. |
| 17:30 | <@TheWatcher> | It's actually used in several places, too |
| 17:31 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 17:31 | <@TheWatcher> | notably in DBI, but in a couple of others |
| 17:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | I consider the inability to distinguish values which are, in fact, different to be a major design flaw. |
| 17:35 | < Shoukanjuu> | On a lighter note, you get an achievement in Soul Calibur 4 for watching the opening video. |
| 17:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: can you chain =~? |
| 17:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Eg, can I go: $name =~ s/// =~ s/// =~ s///? |
| 17:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...for that matter, can I go: my $name = $url ~ s/// ~ ...stuff...? |
| 17:53 | <@TheWatcher> | I honestly have no idea - I've never attempted it |
| 17:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Is there even a ~ operator? |
| 17:56 | <@TheWatcher> | no |
| 17:56 | <@TheWatcher> | =~ !~ |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | So =~ is both a comparator and a mutator? |
| 17:56 | | * ToxicFrog squicks out |
| 18:00 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, doing $name = $url =~ s///; will put the number of matches that the regexp made in $name. If you want to capture parts of a url, use ($name) = $url =~ m/....(capturebit).../;, if you want to retain the original URL and have a modified version, do ($name = $url) =~ s///; |
| 18:00 | <@TheWatcher> | the latter will set $name to $url, then apply the regexp to $name |
| 18:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...I think I'll just stick with what I'm doing |
| 18:29 | | * TheWatcher is trying to work out how the "£%$% to convert a hex code point into utf-8 |
| 18:46 | | * TheWatcher notes it should not be this bloody difficult >.> |
| 19:08 | | * ToxicFrog ponders computation in Dwarf Fortress |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | SL has designs for AND, OR, XOR, NOR, and NAND gates, oscillators, and SR latches as primitive components. |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm pondering if there's an efficient way to implement D-flipflops (and thus registers), or whether they would have to be built up from individual gates |
| 19:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. The trick is, it has to load at the rising edge, and output at the falling edge |
| 19:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Typically you do this with two DFFs and a NOT |
| 19:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Let's see, six NAND gates to make an efficient edge-triggered DFF... |
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| --- Log closed Wed Aug 06 00:00:01 2008 |