| --- Log opened Tue Jun 03 00:00:36 2008 |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | Rar! Goddamn it people |
| 00:21 | <@McMartin> | LACK OF MULTIPLE INHERITANCE IS A FEATURE, NOT A BUG |
| 00:29 | <@McMartin> | Hee |
| 00:30 | <@McMartin> | In other news, the IF newsgroups are discussing the need for context for daemon events now |
| 00:30 | <@McMartin> | And the example used is trapping when the PC is visible to NPCs while lacking pants. |
| 00:30 | < Vornicus> | NO PANTS |
| 00:32 | <@McMartin> | *** OUT OF PANTS ERROR *** REDO FROM START *** |
| 00:34 | < Vornicus> | Idunno. Sometimes I find myself in situations where I could really use MI or even just mixins. |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | I've come to the more-in-sorrow-than-anger conclusion that mixins need some other mechanism, but none have been standardized yet |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | My rage is properly targeted towards the pro-reifers |
| 00:36 | < Vornicus> | reifers? |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | Who want the class hierarchy to exactly reflect all conceivable "is-a" relationships in the problem domain |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | Horrible pun on "pro-lifers" and "reification" |
| 00:36 | < Vornicus> | ah, heh |
| 00:36 | < Vornicus> | (on the other hand, <3 interfaces) |
| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | (Yes, though it has some annoying gaps in the design. But at least they're well-defined.) |
| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | (Which was the goal.) |
| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | I do consider interfaces the Best Mechanism Currently In Use In Major Languages. |
| 00:37 | < Vornicus> | What gaps? |
| 00:38 | <@McMartin> | It has, in my view, two gaps. |
| 00:38 | <@McMartin> | One is that they can't carry code, so mixins don't work. But then, they can't because of the other gap. |
| 00:38 | <@McMartin> | Which is that overlapping method signatures in an interface have to share code in the implementation, and this is unlikely at best to work. |
| 00:39 | <@McMartin> | And the compiler won't even warn about it. |
| 00:39 | < Vornicus> | I... don't know what it is you just said. Can you give me an example? |
| 00:40 | <@McMartin> | interface A { int foo(); int bar(); } interface B { int bar(); int leeg(); } class C implements A, B { ... } |
| 00:40 | <@McMartin> | C needs to implement foo(), bar(), and leeg(), and then casts to A and B make sense, from a type standpoint |
| 00:40 | <@McMartin> | From a semantics standpoint, this is unlikely at best. |
| 00:40 | < Vornicus> | So, the Overload problem from MI, in interfaces. |
| 00:40 | <@McMartin> | Right. |
| 00:41 | <@McMartin> | My solution is effectively not have C implement A or B (or implement the one that's more likely to be used more) and have view-generating methods A asA() and B asB(). |
| 00:41 | <@McMartin> | And then you use that instead of a cast. |
| 00:42 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:42 | <@McMartin> | It *might* be possible to build an interfaces-plus-mixins language that did that construction automatically, but I haven't thought it through enough to be entirely confident of this. |
| 00:44 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:18 | < Vornicus> | Idunno. I think MI could 'work' if your language told you "hey this function needs an unambiguous definition" |
| 01:18 | <@McMartin> | I believe that's what D does. |
| 01:19 | <@McMartin> | Essentially, it's MI but only for mixins, and having conflicts is a compile-time error. |
| 01:19 | <@McMartin> | That's a bit too bondage-and-discipline for my taste, since it means you still don't have the guarantee that any two given libraries can be mixed. |
| 01:20 | <@McMartin> | And I think you could do it with autoviews. |
| 01:20 | <@McMartin> | Something to think about post-dissertation, anyway. |
| 01:20 | <@McMartin> | But now, dinner. |
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| 06:40 | < Shoukanjuu> | If anyone is still here |
| 06:40 | < Shoukanjuu> | Should I have op before I post a link to my photobuket dictating my success? |
| 06:44 | | mode/#code [+o Shoukanjuu] by EvilDarkLord |
| 06:45 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It may not be a big deal to anyone (Thanks for op), but I've been messing around with trucha signer on wii isos |
| 06:46 | <@Shoukanjuu> | While it certainly isn't a difficult thing, it took me a little bit of time |
| 06:46 | <@Shoukanjuu> | And a spare DVD, but I've managed to edit growth rates for Radiant Dawn characters |
| 06:47 | <@Shoukanjuu> | As evidenced http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb76/TruthinLies/Picture2-6.png |
| 06:47 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Of course, setting them to FF was what I did, resulting in, of course, 355% growth rates :) |
| 06:47 | <@Shoukanjuu> | ... |
| 06:47 | <@Shoukanjuu> | 255%* |
| 06:47 | <@Shoukanjuu> | That is all. |
| 06:48 | < Vornicus> | cool |
| 06:48 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I don't suck at everything \o/! |
| 06:48 | < Vornicus> | wootcake |
| 06:48 | <@Shoukanjuu> | And now I need to go to bed because I need to be up in 7 hours. Good night :O |
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| 08:12 | <@McMartin> | http://goosh.org/ |
| 08:14 | <@UndeadAnno> | Looks awesome. |
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| 17:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Parsing expression grammars: awesome, or totally fucking awesome? |
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| 20:02 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I'm going to need more DVDs. |
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| 21:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Can anyone thing of a situation where this: |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | '<' TYPE '>' RULE? EOL |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | matches, but: |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | '<' TYPE NAME? '>' RULE? EOL |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | doesn't? |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? has the same meaning as in regex. |
| 21:51 | <@McMartin> | Can NAME include '>'s? |
| 21:52 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Maybe you're using something evil and predictive. Get an LR generator instead? |
| 21:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: yes, but I get the same behaviour if I fiddle things so that it can't. |
| 21:56 | <@McMartin> | MCV: ... predictive is vastly easier to, you know, predict. |
| 21:57 | <@McMartin> | TF: Off the top of my head, the latter should - ideally, as in, O^3 infinite lookahead not-even-LR - be a strict superset. |
| 21:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's what I was thinking. |
| 21:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | And now I have it in a state where the latter matches the former, but not the stuff the latter should actually match... |
| 22:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm., |
| 22:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | If I just bung the pattern for NAME in rather than using a nonterminal, it works. |
| 22:03 | <@McMartin> | What generator is this? |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, no it doesn't. goddamnit. |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | LPEG. |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | A lua library implementing parsing expression grammars. |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | Hum. |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | OK, NHOI |
| 22:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | NHOI? |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | Never Heard Of It |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsing_expression_grammar PEG |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/lpeg/ LPEG |
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| 23:34 | | * Vornotron stoatacos Chalcy |
| 23:34 | <@Shoukanjuu> | At the very tleast, my project will document where the growth data is. |
| 23:35 | <@Shoukanjuu> | There is also a small amount of...>.> change to what has been accepted as the norm for said data |
| 23:35 | <@Shoukanjuu> | For instance, Aran's Resistance growth is 18, not 25...And Leonardo's is 30, not 55 |
| 23:36 | < Vornotron> | Are you sure you're not reading that in hex? |
| 23:36 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Because 1E != 37 |
| 23:36 | < Vornotron> | Ah |
| 23:36 | < Vornotron> | 0x18 -> 24; 0x30 -> 56 |
| 23:37 | <@Shoukanjuu> | >.> |
| 23:37 | <@Shoukanjuu> | 0x30 -> 48 what are you talking about >_> |
| 23:37 | < Vornotron> | ...gah, dammit |
| 23:37 | < Vornotron> | You win |
| 23:38 | < Vornotron> | 0x38 -> 56 |
| 23:38 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I HAVE DEFEATED THE VORNOTRON |
| 23:38 | | * Shoukanjuu dies of alcohol poisoning and hexadecimal overdose |
| 23:39 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It seems, however, that the growths were already brushed upon |
| 23:39 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I'm merely coming back through and changing mistakes this guy made |
| 23:39 | <@Shoukanjuu> | See above, 1E != 37 |
| 23:40 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I have a problem with associating hex with 0x******** or **h |
| 23:40 | <@Shoukanjuu> | So I commonly do what I just did above |
| 23:42 | <@Shoukanjuu> | 64 characters left! Whee! |
| --- Log closed Wed Jun 04 00:00:42 2008 |