| --- Log opened Mon May 19 00:00:44 2008 |
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| 22:11 | | JeffPL [803645eb@Nightstar-9250.mibbit.com] has joined #code |
| 22:11 | < JeffPL> | Hey. I have a question for everyone here. |
| 22:11 | < JeffPL> | If Java doesn't have pointers, how am I supposed to make a doubly-linked list in it? |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | When people say |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | "Java doesn't have pointers" |
| 22:12 | < JeffPL> | You're about to go off on me for that, huh? |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | They mean "Java doesn't let you do arbitrary pointer arithmetic" |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | Also, from a more practical standpoint, this is for a class, right? |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | Because otherwise you just use java.util.LinkedList and be done with it |
| 22:14 | < JeffPL> | Specifically, it's me trying to create a page table. |
| 22:14 | < JeffPL> | I suppose I could try to do something that extends LinkedList. |
| 22:15 | <@McMartin> | Wouldn't it just be a HashMap of some value to a LinkedList of other values? |
| 22:15 | <@McMartin> | That said, to answer your question, all data values castable to Object are in fact pointers and can be used as such for anything that doesn't involve pointer arithmetic. |
| 22:16 | < JeffPL> | So let's say, hypothetically, not that I'm going to do this (rooting through docs for LinkedList again)- |
| 22:16 | < JeffPL> | I have a private class page" |
| 22:17 | < JeffPL> | Can I give it fields like private page next , private page prev, private static page root? |
| 22:17 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. And then it's all as you would do it otherwise. |
| 22:17 | <@McMartin> | You can't do the stupid-ass XOR trick, and you can't do raw structure assignment, but that's about it. |
| 22:18 | <@McMartin> | Hm. If you've got a C++ background, it would be like having all of these be page&. |
| 22:18 | < JeffPL> | I have a C/C++ background, yes. |
| 22:18 | < JeffPL> | That's why I came up with the idea of trying to create my own linked list, as it's Something I've Done Before. |
| 22:18 | <@McMartin> | The & type modifier is C++-only. |
| 22:19 | < JeffPL> | Ah! |
| 22:20 | < JeffPL> | Sorry, I thought you just meant "&field" in general. |
| 22:21 | <@McMartin> | In C++-speak, Java doesn't have pointers but does have references, and in practice references cover everything you'd actually want to do. |
| 22:21 | <@McMartin> | C uses its pointers to get around gaping holes in its type library like a lack of arrays and strings. |
| 22:22 | < JeffPL> | First language I learned was C, so there are significant gaps in my knowledge/conception of How Things Are Supposed To Work. |
| 22:24 | < JeffPL> | (Hmm. do I want a linked list for this? I want a list of fixed size I can search for empty page slots, then insert the pages into.) |
| 22:24 | <@McMartin> | (Are you sure you don't really just want a HashMap that does separate chaining under the hood for you for free?) |
| 22:26 | < JeffPL> | (well, hmm. Oh, hey, hang on a second. Is java.util imported for free?) |
| 22:27 | <@McMartin> | (No, you have to import java.util.*) |
| 22:27 | <@McMartin> | (However, if you're using at least Java 5, java.util.Iterators will be autogenerated by the foreach syntax) |
| 22:29 | < JeffPL> | (well, this question just became unhappily moot) |
| 22:30 | <@McMartin> | (If it's of fixed size you could wrap an array) |
| 22:31 | < JeffPL> | (Would the array have a good search mechanism, though? Then again I guess I'd have to write that myself in either case.) |
| 22:32 | <@McMartin> | (Yeah, and you're going to run into problems with false collisions if there's any kind of hashing involved. If it's just a resource pool, though, it should be fine) |
| 22:33 | < JeffPL> | (Sorry, I need 100% no errors no miss accuracy here. Speed is relatively negligible.) |
| 22:34 | | * McMartin returns from subthread |
| 22:34 | <@McMartin> | What's the actual problem statement here? |
| 22:36 | < JeffPL> | What I need to do? And do you want actual textdump or my summary? |
| 22:36 | <@McMartin> | Summary will do if it hits all the points. |
| 22:36 | <@McMartin> | I want the top-level, though. |
| 22:37 | <@McMartin> | Far, far too often in #code have people come in asking for how to deal with alligators biting their ass when what they really needed was not to build on a swamp in the first place. |
| 22:38 | < JeffPL> | I apologize. |
| 22:39 | <@McMartin> | Just warning you in advance |
| 22:40 | <@McMartin> | That said, if you came from C, one of the skills you'll really need to make Java do tricks for you is the ability to search the library docs |
| 22:40 | < JeffPL> | The total group project is to implement support for multiprogramming - as in, multiple processes - in NachOS, and my part of that is, right now, to design a page table. At the moment NachOS assumes that virtual memory == real memory. In order to fix this, I'm supposed to design a page table that "must make efficient use of memory by allocating pages for the new process wherever possible", IE, must be able to use gaps of any size in the table's pool |
| 22:40 | <@McMartin> | o_O |
| 22:40 | <@McMartin> | Isn't NachOS written in C? |
| 22:41 | < JeffPL> | There's a C version and now there's a Java version. |
| 22:41 | | * McMartin still has fond memories of the "killed by NachOS while helpless" tombstone on the door of the Berkeley XCF) |
| 22:41 | <@McMartin> | Hmm. |
| 22:42 | < JeffPL> | We are the first course at UCSD to utilize the Java version, which means that I'm pretty sure no one in the CS building has any idea how this works. |
| 22:42 | < JeffPL> | Also, you got into Berk? |
| 22:42 | <@McMartin> | And you're basically using an "x blocks of space" approach... |
| 22:42 | <@McMartin> | I got out of it too, with a BS, back in 2000. |
| 22:43 | < JeffPL> | That's my idea, yeah. Linked-list, as I've elaborated, do a search for empties to put the pages your program needs (plus 8 for the stack) in at the start, pull 'em all out at the end. |
| 22:43 | < JeffPL> | Congratulations. |
| 22:43 | <@McMartin> | So, basically a freelist independent of the heap itself. |
| 22:44 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, that's probably doable with LinkedList<YourDataTypeForRepresentingAChunkOfFreeMemory>. |
| 22:44 | < JeffPL> | Or it would, were we allowed to import java.util , I believe. |
| 22:44 | <@McMartin> | Aha. |
| 22:45 | <@McMartin> | If you aren't, then you'll need to roll your own Linked List implementation, yeah. |
| 22:45 | <@McMartin> | Clearly they're forbidding this to keep you at the systems-dev level. =P |
| 22:45 | | JPL [803645eb@Nightstar-9250.mibbit.com] has joined #code |
| 22:45 | <@McMartin> | Just, uh, be aware that this isn't really what Java is for. |
| 22:46 | < JPL> | Sorry, disconned. |
| 22:46 | <@McMartin> | "If you aren't, then you'll need to roll your own Linked List implementation, yeah." |
| 22:46 | <@McMartin> | "Clearly they're forbidding this to keep you at the systems-dev level. =P" |
| 22:46 | <@McMartin> | "Just, uh, be aware that this isn't really what Java is for." |
| 22:46 | | JeffPL [803645eb@Nightstar-9250.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] |
| 22:46 | < JPL> | Firefox, or at least the version of it availiable on lab computers, appears to crash whenever selected text is click and dragged. (If you're asking me why I'd ever do that, I was attempting to scroll, and accidentally clicked on text I selected to be able to read better.) |
| 22:46 | | JPL is now known as JeffPL |
| 22:56 | < JeffPL> | Also, were you still on the quarter system when you went through NachOS? |
| 22:56 | < JeffPL> | Or was this after Berk moved back to Semesters? |
| 22:58 | <@Vornicus> | NachOS? |
| 22:59 | <@McMartin> | Actually, I think it's NACHOS. |
| 22:59 | <@McMartin> | Toy OS used for teaching OS concepts. |
| 22:59 | <@McMartin> | Not Another Completely Heuristic Operating System, IIRC. |
| 23:00 | | * JeffPL checks the Vast and Infinite |
| 23:00 | < JeffPL> | McMartin is correct. |
| 23:01 | < JeffPL> | It is, indeed, NACHOS. |
| 23:01 | < JeffPL> | And that is the correct acronym. |
| 23:03 | < JeffPL> | Moving labs. |
| 23:03 | | JeffPL [803645eb@Nightstar-9250.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] |
| 23:35 | <@C_tiger> | has anyone installed SP3 yet? |
| 23:35 | <@McMartin> | I was going to on this throwaway laptop. I hear it has Issues (tm) but I don't care if the laptop dies. |
| 23:45 | <@C_tiger> | I'm trying on a VM on my linuxbox |
| 23:45 | <@C_tiger> | but it's taking FOREVER... partly because of the VM but partly because it's a pain. |
| 23:46 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 23:56 | <@gnolam> | XP SP3? Yeah. Installed it last week. |
| 23:57 | <@C_tiger> | how does it work for ye? |
| 23:57 | <@gnolam> | The only problem was with the slow goddamned installer. Other than that, nothing to report. |
| 23:57 | <@C_tiger> | Yeah, it's been installing for the last two hours. |
| --- Log closed Tue May 20 00:00:50 2008 |