| --- Log opened Sat May 03 00:00:59 2008 |
| 00:04 | | SouthernMyst is now known as Myst|Away |
| 00:08 | < MyCatVerbs> | AnnoDomini: wow, how the Hell did you swing such a low price on the flight? |
| 00:10 | <@AnnoDomini> | Flight? Naw, I drove there. I'm not including the price of fuel, but we split that four ways. |
| 00:10 | <@AnnoDomini> | And fuel is CHEAP in Ukraine. :D |
| 00:12 | < MyCatVerbs> | AnnoDomini: uhuh. What on Earth does that have to do with Dubya? |
| 00:12 | <@AnnoDomini> | We paid in DOLLARS. If we'd gone two years ago, when the price was the same, we'd pay a third more. |
| 00:14 | | * MyCatVerbs facepalms. |
| 00:15 | < MyCatVerbs> | \o/ w000 inflation. |
| 00:15 | < Shoukanjuu> | ZSW |
| 00:15 | < Shoukanjuu> | ... |
| 00:15 | < Shoukanjuu> | XD |
| 00:15 | <@AnnoDomini> | The price of the dollar has never been so low. :D |
| 00:15 | < Shoukanjuu> | :D |
| 00:15 | < Shoukanjuu> | ;_; |
| 00:16 | < Shoukanjuu> | I'm reminded of a picture in the history book I used in junior year |
| 00:17 | < Shoukanjuu> | Where it said that, due to inflation and war/fees because of war, Germany's money had next to no value |
| 00:17 | < Shoukanjuu> | Kids were using bills as building blocks |
| 00:17 | <@AnnoDomini> | It's funny how our nicks are all the same length. |
| 00:17 | | mode/#code [+oooooo Moltare ASCIISkull Chalcy DiceBot MyCatVerbs Shoukanjuu] by AnnoDomini |
| 00:25 | <@MyCatVerbs> | AnnoDomini: pound sterling, too. |
| 00:25 | <@MyCatVerbs> | AnnoDomini: when the whole credit crunch hit, the pound and the dollar didn't shift at all relative to one another, but the Euro shot up relative to both. :) |
| 00:26 | <@AnnoDomini> | Looks like the Brits allied themselves with the wrong people. :P |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | Some of the Euro mess was a liquidity crisis. |
| 00:26 | <@MyCatVerbs> | AnnoDomini: seems that, as it turns out, our banks are (on average) just as fucking stupid as the Americans' banks. |
| 00:26 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I'm just gonna ride this out |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | There was a bit where to prevent the Euro from spiking pointlessly they actually wound up borrowing a large sum from the US. |
| 00:27 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I'm fairly sure our economy is in a slow down because of the skirmishes overseas |
| 00:27 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: hrmn? The Euro hasn't been devalued by the whole incident at all, though. |
| 00:28 | <@McMartin> | No. But there was a Sudden Disastrous Deflation they hit that was unrelated about the same time |
| 00:29 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Huh. Didn't know about that. |
| 00:29 | <@MyCatVerbs> | I thought the relative movements were due more or less entirely to both the US and UK crapping out. |
| 00:29 | <@McMartin> | The Federal Reserve wound up lending about 500M EUR to the European Central Bank for a short period, which settled it down and paid back |
| 00:29 | <@McMartin> | But it certainly Didn't Help in the global sense. |
| 00:30 | <@MyCatVerbs> | How did that work? |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | I'm a little unclear on how it happens, but apparently it does... |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidity_crisis |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | It was one of these, but at the transnational scale |
| 00:31 | <@MyCatVerbs> | We're talking about the supply of cash drying up, causing its value to increase because of limited supply? |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | There were Not Enough Euros To Run The Economy Right. |
| 00:32 | <@Shoukanjuu> | >.> |
| 00:32 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It would be nice to be able tyo pay attention to things like this happening. |
| 00:32 | <@McMartin> | AFAIK it got sorted out via loans, though, no harm no foul |
| 00:32 | <@Shoukanjuu> | ...Except as long as I have a source of income, I'm fine, no matter how small it is, at the moment :x |
| 00:32 | <@McMartin> | Heh. |
| 00:33 | | * McMartin hopes to get employed well enough to not have to worry about it any further. |
| 00:33 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I just don't think we need to worry about it as much as we are |
| 00:34 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Preventative measures to be taken to stop anything from plunging further, but other than that... |
| 00:34 | <@Shoukanjuu> | People are too sane is what it is. *nodnod* |
| 00:34 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Too....static. |
| 00:37 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Just not economically versatile anymore :O |
| 00:43 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Shoukanjuu: people have pretty much stopped saving in the UK, if that's what you're talking about. |
| 00:44 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Nah, the UK scares me, I'm in the US |
| 00:44 | <@MyCatVerbs> | The UK scares you? How so? |
| 00:44 | <@Shoukanjuu> | They're just too damned intelligent for their own good! @_@ |
| 00:45 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Shoukanjuu: ahhahahahahah, fuck no. Try meeting some of us, that misapprehension will soon melt away (and be replaced with your choice of crushing depression or burning hatred). |
| 00:46 | <@Shoukanjuu> | That just means you're socially inept |
| 00:46 | <@Shoukanjuu> | And can only piece together an intelligible idea when you're talking to your textbuddies. |
| 00:46 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Mmmmmnope. |
| 00:46 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Oh, well okay. |
| 00:46 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It was a joke anyway :P |
| 00:47 | <@MyCatVerbs> | There are no intelligible ideas within the populace's heads. :P |
| 00:47 | | Myst|Away is now known as SouthernMyst |
| 00:47 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Sounds like y ou went to public school! |
| 00:47 | <@Shoukanjuu> | :D |
| 00:47 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Shoukanjuu: wait, which definition of "public school" are you using here? |
| 00:48 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Shoukanjuu: at any rate, I attended the local hole. |
| 00:49 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Have you ever seen a large building that isn't used anymore because it's filled with asbestos and/or so old that it may fall apart? |
| 00:49 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Couple that with books that still teach creationism |
| 00:49 | <@MyCatVerbs> | (You just -think- that because when you think "British person", the first people you come up with are Stephen Fry, Douglas Adams and the Pythons (modulo Terry Gilliam), all of whom really were ridiculously clever. But they're certainly not representative.) |
| 00:49 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Christian psueodnazis |
| 00:49 | <@Shoukanjuu> | (Actually, not really. I haven't a clue who ANY of them are. :P) |
| 00:50 | <@C_tiger> | Shoukanjuu where are you from? |
| 00:50 | <@C_tiger> | what version of English do you speak? |
| 00:50 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Surely you know who Douglas Adams is. |
| 00:50 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Florida. |
| 00:50 | <@C_tiger> | Ok. |
| 00:50 | <@Shoukanjuu> | My memory is halfead. |
| 00:50 | <@MyCatVerbs> | The *Pythons*, for Hell's sake. |
| 00:50 | <@Shoukanjuu> | halfdead* |
| 00:50 | <@C_tiger> | (just so you know Public school means something totally different in the UK) |
| 00:50 | <@Shoukanjuu> | (Oh, well okay) |
| 00:51 | <@Shoukanjuu> | By public school, I mean the ones that aren't privately owned |
| 00:51 | <@Shoukanjuu> | (Wikipedia is my friend. :3) |
| 00:51 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Shoukanjuu: in the UK, for weird reasons "public school" denotes a private school and "state school" denotes what a sane person would mean by the phrase "public school". |
| 00:51 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Where the government is constantly siphoning funds from the budget of |
| 00:52 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Your education system frightens me. |
| 00:52 | <@C_tiger> | MyCatVerbs: that's because in the UK there used to be schools which had restricted access. |
| 00:52 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Conversely, my country's creeping surveillance also gives me the willies, but in a rather more vague and insiduous fashion. |
| 00:53 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Public schools are offered by the governemnt and, much like our economy, our eucation system has been dwindling since the early nineties. |
| 00:53 | <@MyCatVerbs> | C_tiger: what kinda restrictions? |
| 00:53 | <@C_tiger> | Monastaries. |
| 00:53 | <@MyCatVerbs> | C_tiger: ahhh, I see. Thank you for the enlightenment. |
| 00:54 | <@C_tiger> | I can't remember the phrase for it. |
| 00:54 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Shoukanjuu: one might raise the conjecture that possibly these facts are related. |
| 00:54 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Yes, I would say they are related |
| 00:54 | <@McMartin> | If you don't have any money, you can't put it into the schools. |
| 00:54 | <@Shoukanjuu> | But there is a distinct difference in the education between different regions |
| 00:54 | <@C_tiger> | MyCatVerbs: plus private schooling meant something totally different. |
| 00:54 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Some schools in the southeast region of the US |
| 00:54 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Still teach creationism |
| 00:55 | <@McMartin> | Where by "still" we mean "started after lobbying by wealthy idiots" |
| 00:55 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: glance askance at, say, the US Navy. |
| 00:55 | <@Shoukanjuu> | What about the Navy? |
| 00:55 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: nation-wide lack of funds is not the issue. |
| 00:55 | <@Shoukanjuu> | McMartin: Yeah, pretty much is how it turned out |
| 00:55 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Inappropriate deploment of funds, sure. |
| 00:55 | <@McMartin> | "One bomber would fund 14 states of primary school" |
| 00:55 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Hotdamn |
| 00:56 | | * McMartin has a twisted perspective on this as California's education requirements are actually fairly hefty by any measure. |
| 00:56 | <@C_tiger> | I'm pretty sure that's not true. |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | Depends on which 14, certainly. |
| 00:56 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Well, for instance |
| 00:56 | <@C_tiger> | even so. |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | CA, TX, and NY are right out. |
| 00:56 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Texas and Florida |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | $2B would go a long way. |
| 00:56 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: also depends which bombers. |
| 00:56 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I went to a public school, my friend went to a public school |
| 00:56 | <@C_tiger> | still unless you mean 14 wyomings + utahs... |
| 00:56 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I've lived in Florida, he in Texas |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | That was more or less the case |
| 00:57 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: and, of course, it goes *way* up if you include the R&D costs, even after amortizing them over the entire production run for that particular airframe. |
| 00:57 | <@ASCIISkull> | in new york, you could pour a fortune and barey any of it would go anywhere useful |
| 00:57 | <@Shoukanjuu> | At 9th grade, he was learning trigonometry |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | Also, yeah, CA's good public schools are still at minimum Really Damned Good. |
| 00:57 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Trig wasn't available to us until 11th grade |
| 00:57 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: even more if you factor in crewing, maintaining and storing the damn things. |
| 00:57 | <@C_tiger> | I went to public school of the other variety. |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | Shou: Yeah, that's pretty sad. |
| 00:57 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Which is why I was going to join the Navy |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | It was 10th at my HS, but that's because 9th was axiomatic geometry, which they wanted to teach fully first. |
| 00:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | If it's one thing they DON'T do wrong |
| 00:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It's THEIR education |
| 00:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | McM: Understandable |
| 00:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | The majority of stuff I know, I took out of my mother's 9th grade math book. |
| 00:58 | <@McMartin> | That's well within the curriculum wiggle room, though. |
| 00:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Which was more advanced than anything the school I went to ever taught me, or tried to |
| 00:59 | | * McMartin thinks algebraic geometry is probably a decent baseline for HS math. |
| 00:59 | <@McMartin> | The accelerated kids can go on the Calc or Stat past that. |
| 00:59 | <@Shoukanjuu> | McM: In my school, the normal student would take geometry in 11th, Algebra 2 in 12th. |
| 01:00 | <@McMartin> | What counts as "Algebra 2"? |
| 01:00 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I took Algebra, geometry, and algebra 2 in my 9 and beginning of 10th grade |
| 01:00 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Beginning of trig, more geometry. |
| 01:00 | <@C_tiger> | I have no idea what algebraic geometry means but when I left high school (a year early) I'd covered basic linear algebra, multivariate calc and mechanics. |
| 01:00 | <@Shoukanjuu> | For no reason. It doesn't make sense. |
| 01:00 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Don't ask me why |
| 01:00 | <@McMartin> | C: All of those except mechanics are pretty much pointless unless you're going into a field that requires them. |
| 01:00 | <@McMartin> | everything requires Alg Geo. |
| 01:00 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I did take Physics, though, in 11th grade. |
| 01:01 | <@McMartin> | Algebraic Geometry is also called coordinate geometry. |
| 01:01 | <@C_tiger> | well I was in math classes. |
| 01:01 | <@C_tiger> | which were optional. |
| 01:01 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, I'm referring to baseline "A diploma should mean a basic command of at least this" |
| 01:01 | <@Shoukanjuu> | In Florida, a diploma means you didn't shoot someone and get arested and or expelled |
| 01:01 | <@C_tiger> | ah. um... |
| 01:02 | <@C_tiger> | what do you mean alg geo? |
| 01:02 | <@McMartin> | Too lazy to type "algebraic geometry" over and over. |
| 01:02 | <@C_tiger> | Yeah, but what do you mean by that? |
| 01:02 | <@ASCIISkull> | in new york, you can get a diploma for showing up, but it's pretty much useless without a regents |
| 01:02 | <@C_tiger> | sorry, I never learned what MATH is called :P |
| 01:02 | <@McMartin> | Cartesian and Polar coordinates, geometry based on these. |
| 01:02 | <@C_tiger> | Ah. |
| 01:02 | <@McMartin> | "Here are five points, give me the area of the polygon they form" |
| 01:03 | <@C_tiger> | That would be hard even for college grads in the US. |
| 01:03 | <@McMartin> | All of trig that involves numbers instead of simple similarity |
| 01:03 | <@McMartin> | etc. |
| 01:03 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I can do that |
| 01:03 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Wasn't taught that in school |
| 01:04 | <@McMartin> | I think once you broke the poly into triangles and reminded them of the formula for the area of a triangle, most college grads could manage it. |
| 01:04 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It's common sense for the simple things |
| 01:04 | <@C_tiger> | McMartin, true. |
| 01:04 | <@Shoukanjuu> | But these simple things are what we're getting stuck at for some reason |
| 01:04 | <@McMartin> | Shou: Took thousands of years to really get right, though. But yeah, in the end it's easier than axiomatic, and strictly more general |
| 01:04 | <@C_tiger> | but most college grads wouldn't think to break the shape down. |
| 01:04 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29588.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Juffo-Wup is a *candle*. It is filled with many *candy bars*.] |
| 01:04 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I excel at simplifying things to extremely simple steps |
| 01:04 | | * McMartin considers algebra a survival skill. Most of Euclid and all of calc aren't. |
| 01:04 | <@Shoukanjuu> | ....That only I can understand |
| 01:05 | <@C_tiger> | McM really? |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | Calc is dividing by zero and getting away with it. |
| 01:05 | <@C_tiger> | I mean I can see regular algebra as a survival skill... |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | Algebra is noticing that your bill has discrepancies in it and figuring unit costs. |
| 01:05 | <@Shoukanjuu> | .9999R = 1 |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | The only part of calc that's necessary, and only arguably calc, is COMPOUND INTEREST WILL KILL YOU. |
| 01:06 | <@C_tiger> | well, that's not really algebra... that's like 4 function calculator. |
| 01:06 | <@Shoukanjuu> | XD |
| 01:06 | <@C_tiger> | McMartin, and speeds and rates. |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | It's knowing what to feed a 4-function calculator. |
| 01:06 | <@McMartin> | Knowing differential calculus will let you memorize one formula instead of three. |
| 01:07 | <@C_tiger> | Yeah. |
| 01:07 | <@C_tiger> | but fundamentally, it's the CONCEPTS of calculus. |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | While algebra means you can use any of them. |
| 01:07 | <@C_tiger> | like you can break stuff down into tiny bits that can be solved and then add them back together. |
| 01:07 | | * McMartin wishes people knew how long division worked, but that's actually unusually advanced. |
| 01:07 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Are you saying that algebra is more versatile, but calculus is required for much more advanced things? |
| 01:08 | <@McMartin> | Shou: Calculus means that all you have to remember is what acceleration is to do kinematics. |
| 01:08 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Oh, well okay |
| 01:08 | <@McMartin> | With algebra, you need to memorize x = x0 + v0t + .5at^2 and such. |
| 01:08 | <@C_tiger> | Actually, I think he's saying that calculus allows you to understand what is going on with formulas you just memorize in algebra. |
| 01:08 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 01:09 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Better, that's why I asked |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | And algebra in turn would let you understand what's going on with computations you'd otherwise just do with a calculator |
| 01:09 | <@C_tiger> | Like the compound interest formula... sure you can plug in numbers into the function... but understanding it needs calc. |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | But unlike calc, the points where you have to act on your own with algebra are much more common |
| 01:10 | <@McMartin> | C: Except nothing is ever actually compounded continuously, and closed-form versions of discrete compoundings are full of spiders so nobody uses them. |
| 01:10 | <@McMartin> | They just iterate the smaller, algebraic form. |
| 01:10 | <@McMartin> | Anyway. Dinnertime for me. |
| 01:13 | <@Shoukanjuu> | As far as I can see, there are regional differences in education |
| 01:13 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Further compounded by misallocation of funds required for decent education |
| 01:13 | <@Shoukanjuu> | So muc hso that it is indeed schooling over education |
| 01:14 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Like I said earlier: The Navy doesn't skirt on their education |
| 01:14 | <@C_tiger> | I suppose the most important everyday skill is working with dimensions. |
| 01:14 | <@Shoukanjuu> | C: Agreed |
| 01:15 | <@C_tiger> | which is really algebra in disguise. |
| 01:15 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Of course |
| 01:15 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Physics was fun. |
| 01:15 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I built a trebuchet with my friends :3 |
| 01:23 | <@C_tiger> | We never did fun things in physics. |
| 01:24 | <@Shoukanjuu> | We didn't do that in physics. |
| 01:24 | <@Shoukanjuu> | We did that with the things we actually learned or already knew |
| 01:24 | <@Shoukanjuu> | And then I got a 123 for turning it in for credit |
| 01:24 | <@Shoukanjuu> | 123% XD |
| 01:25 | | * C_tiger shrugs, I didn't graduate high school. |
| 01:25 | <@Shoukanjuu> | It didn't work correctly because someone didn't GET THE DAMNED TWINE |
| 01:25 | <@Shoukanjuu> | So it didn't have enough tension and...because of the tension ;_; |
| 01:29 | <@C_tiger> | Actually, the more I think about it, I can't think of anything that is physics that should be taught in highschool. |
| 01:30 | <@C_tiger> | Mechanics goes in math class. (at least we had applied math classes where we learned that kinda stuff)... thermo goes to chemistry. |
| 01:30 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Someone is selling an Xbox 360 for 100 dollars...RRoD'th |
| 01:30 | <@C_tiger> | RRoD? |
| 01:31 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Red Ring of Death |
| 01:31 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I'm fairly sure it's a firmware problem |
| 01:31 | <@Shoukanjuu> | That hasn't been fixed |
| 01:31 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I can get it fixed for 35 dollars, including shipping XD |
| 01:36 | <@Shoukanjuu> | If course, the 360 would end up in little bits by the time it got there XD |
| 01:56 | <@MyCatVerbs> | C_tiger: physics does make a good place to tie some of it all together and also teach some of the peripheral bits and pieces that underlie everything else. |
| 01:57 | <@MyCatVerbs> | C_tiger: good example being the scientific method itself. Good physics textbooks often explain the experiments done, rather than just the conclusions. |
| 01:58 | <@MyCatVerbs> | C_tiger: also, you can't really shoehorn cosmology/astronomy or quantum mechanics into any other class. |
| 01:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | That was one thing our textbook did |
| 01:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | And the teacher, bad as he was at cracking jokes |
| 01:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | got the ideas through to us |
| 01:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | There was only like 11 people there, tohugh ^^; |
| 02:01 | <@MyCatVerbs> | What age? |
| 02:02 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Most in there were 18 |
| 02:02 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I was 16 at the time : |
| 02:02 | | * MyCatVerbs had a (roughly) four-and-a-half person physics class for the latter half of 16-18. ^^ |
| 02:03 | <@MyCatVerbs> | That was fun. We had a giggling campaign going on that was slowly eroding the soul of one of our teachers. |
| 02:03 | <@Shoukanjuu> | XD |
| 02:04 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Every time he'd mention anything that could be Kevin-Bacon'd into innuendo, we'd start snickering. |
| 02:04 | <@MyCatVerbs> | All in good humour, of course, we loved the guy. |
| 02:04 | <@MyCatVerbs> | But, well, imagine how hard it is to teach physics when you can't safely use the word "thrust"? |
| 02:05 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Or "oscillation". Or we used to crack bad puns every time the poor man mentioned "perfect black bodies" (yay for thermal radiation!). |
| 02:27 | | Vornicus [~vorn@64.252.82.ns-3881] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 02:28 | | Vornicus [~vorn@64.252.82.ns-3881] has joined #code |
| 02:28 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 03:18 | <@C_tiger> | McM: QM totally fits in Chemistry. |
| 03:19 | <@C_tiger> | cosmology, admittedly is harder. |
| 03:21 | <@McMartin> | What did I say about this? |
| 03:23 | <@Shoukanjuu> | What is the ratio of densities between a star and a black hoole of the same size? o: |
| 03:25 | <@Vornicus> | A black hole with an event horizon the radius of a normal star... |
| 03:25 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Yes? |
| 03:38 | <@C_tiger> | Shoukanjuu 1:1 |
| 03:39 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Is it? |
| 03:39 | <@Vornicus> | No. |
| 03:39 | <@C_tiger> | well if you define a black hole as occupying the volume required for that to be true... |
| 03:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, because the event horizon is inside where the radius of the original star would have been. |
| 03:44 | | * Vornicus tries to figure out the actual event horizon distance, anyway. |
| 03:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | So even if you use a sphere bounded by the event horizon as the effective volume of the black hole, the density of the BH is greater. |
| 03:45 | <@C_tiger> | I know... but you can define a black hole as bigger than that if you want. |
| 03:45 | <@C_tiger> | I was actually messing about. |
| 03:45 | <@Vornicus> | (note that the event horizon is different in different reference frames, somehow) |
| 03:45 | <@C_tiger> | also I'm pretty sure not all the mass of the original star is in the black hole. |
| 03:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, some of it gets converted into energy or kicked away when the hole forms. |
| 03:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which contracts the event horizon relative to the original star, so the density is still higher. |
| 03:46 | <@C_tiger> | Yeah, I'm pretty sure that black hole is denser than the star. |
| 03:47 | <@C_tiger> | I'm just making the point that density is a fuzzy concept. |
| 03:47 | <@Shoukanjuu> | That's what I thought |
| 03:47 | <@Vornicus> | hm... |
| 03:47 | | * Vornicus can't do the math in his head. |
| 03:48 | <@C_tiger> | things kinda fall apart when time and space turn to mush. |
| 03:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Density is not fuzzy. What's fuzzy is the volume of the black hole. |
| 03:48 | <@Shoukanjuu> | How do you know? |
| 03:48 | <@Shoukanjuu> | How do you know they don't fit together better? |
| 03:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Density is perfectly straightforward: mass over volume. |
| 03:48 | <@C_tiger> | right... volume gets pretty dicey. |
| 03:49 | <@C_tiger> | and mass may as well... |
| 03:55 | | * Vornicus eyes, can't even do the math with a big nasty computer, because he /can't understand general relativity/. |
| 03:55 | <@Vornicus> | Someone should probably ask Caps. |
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| 13:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | VBScript - Why are variables declared with Dim? Why not Bright? |
| 17:16 | <@Kazriko> | dimension. |
| 17:16 | <@AnnoDomini> | Why dimension? |
| 17:17 | <@Kazriko> | because it was used to tell the system the "dimensions" of the variable, 1 byte, 2 bytes, 4 bytes, string, array, etc. |
| 17:17 | <@Kazriko> | the redim command is used to change the number of elements in an existing array, for example. |
| 17:36 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 17:48 | <@McMartin> | Also, in Original Basic, the only variables you actually needed to declare were arrays. |
| 18:09 | | * Kazriko vaguely recalls that too, |
| 18:09 | <@Kazriko> | it was a quick basic alteration to dimension other things. |
| 18:11 | <@McMartin> | Everything else was typed with decorators, like in Perl |
| 18:12 | <@McMartin> | A = float, A$= string, A%= int |
| 18:18 | <@Kazriko> | would probably run out of those before you ran out of types. heh |
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| --- Log closed Sat May 03 23:15:10 2008 |
| --- Log opened Sat May 03 23:15:43 2008 |
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| 23:35 | <@AnnoDomini> | Hrm. Very funny, Mister UI Designer. I'm sure it was hilarious to you to have made the only way to insert a new record in the table with the Insert key... |
| 23:37 | <@Shoukanjuu> | So apparently, if it makes sense, it's bad? |
| 23:38 | <@Vornicus> | If it's the only way, then it sucks. |
| 23:38 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Ohhh. |
| 23:39 | | * Shoukanjuu passes out Chocolate Silk Pie |
| 23:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | As long as I live, I've never seen Insert used for what it says on the key. |
| 23:40 | <@Shoukanjuu> | What is it for then? |
| 23:40 | <@AnnoDomini> | Switching input mode. |
| 23:40 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Ah, that's right |
| 23:43 | <@Vornicus> | I saw it a long time ago on an old Word install. |
| 23:49 | | * Vornicus futzes with VornMoO: viewport rendering and zoom. |
| 23:57 | <@Vornicus> | Linear algebra is your tiny god. |
| --- Log closed Sun May 04 00:00:10 2008 |