| --- Log opened Sun Apr 13 00:00:43 2008 |
| 00:10 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29231.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: ACHTUNG! ALLES LOOKENSPEEPERS! Das Internet is nicht fuer gefingerclicken und giffengrabben. Ist easy droppenpacket der routers und overloaden der backbone mit der spammen und der me-tooen. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das mausklicken sichtseeren keepen das bandwit-spewin hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das cursorblinken.] |
| 00:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 05:34 | <@Thaqui> | Anyone here who could help recommend good Wiki/CMS/Whatever software? |
| 05:39 | | NSGuest-3333 is now known as Pi |
| 05:50 | <@Vornicus> | Mediawiki is the best wiki software out there, pretty much |
| 05:54 | <@Thaqui> | I've tried using TikiWiki and only got omgwtfishishappening out of it. |
| 05:57 | < Kazriko> | Moinmoin is fairly decent, but doesn't really hold a candle to mediawiki. |
| 05:58 | < Kazriko> | Ah, for CMS, you might try Plone. It's a bit of an acquired taste though. not a wiki. |
| 05:58 | <@Thaqui> | I say CMS because the portal aspect is sort of more important than the wiki aspect. |
| 05:58 | <@Vornicus> | At Resmark we used a locked-down Mediawiki for our user manual. |
| 05:59 | < Kazriko> | plone.net/sites << a list of plone using sites. |
| 05:59 | | mode/#code [+oooo Chalain Jeff jerith Kazriko] by Vornicus |
| 05:59 | <@Thaqui> | Most things I have tried have been either don't have features I want, or clobber me over the head with features until my brain leaks out my ears. |
| 06:00 | | mode/#code [+oo Pi Reiver] by Vornicus |
| 06:00 | <@Kazriko> | plone might be the latter... heh |
| 06:42 | <@McMartin> | I have a bad premonition about things named "Plone" |
| 06:43 | | * Vornicus renames it PLUGH |
| 06:43 | | Shoukanjuu [~Shoukanju@Nightstar-19231.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #code |
| 06:43 | <@McMartin> | Odd you should mention that~ |
| 06:44 | <@McMartin> | Happily, the Plone that sparks the forboding seems unrelated to the Plone Foundation. |
| 06:44 | | * Vornicus ...renames it Y2? |
| 06:44 | <@Kazriko> | McMartin, the band? |
| 06:44 | <@McMartin> | No. |
| 06:45 | <@McMartin> | Second review on http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/if/review07.html was written under the pseudonym "Plone Glenn" |
| 06:45 | <@McMartin> | And, well, I'm told I rant well about IF. |
| 06:45 | <@McMartin> | There's some ranting involved. |
| 06:45 | < Shoukanjuu> | Eh? |
| 06:46 | <@McMartin> | 2007 Interactive Fiction competition. |
| 06:46 | <@McMartin> | The first review on that page is of a game I betaed (and which was awesome), and the second was by this guy. |
| 06:46 | <@McMartin> | And it's just so much epic fail. |
| 06:54 | <@Jeff> | That reminds me- just how unfair are you allowed to be in IF? |
| 06:54 | <@McMartin> | Allowed? |
| 06:54 | < Shoukanjuu> | Not that I'm an artist or anything, but this doesn't sound too good; though, it also has the sense of the insane liberal, which means I'm taking the talk about this with a grain of salt >.> |
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| 06:54 | <@McMartin> | Unfairness is a scale. |
| 06:54 | <@McMartin> | Anyway, I need to disappear for about 15 minutes; I'll answer in more care when I get back. |
| 06:54 | <@McMartin> | Coffeeshop is closing. |
| 06:55 | < Shoukanjuu> | Coffeeshop at 2am? Oh, you're not on the east coast of the US XD;; |
| 06:55 | <@Vornicus> | Shoukanjuu: that particular article has been beaten to death for being idiotically wrong in dozens of ways. |
| 06:56 | < Shoukanjuu> | I thought so, which is why I posted it here and voiced my doubts. Where would I find this legislation to be passed? O__o; |
| 06:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...what article? |
| 06:57 | | mode/#code [+o Shoukanjuu] by Vornicus |
| 06:57 | <@Vornicus> | http://mag.awn.com/index.php?ltype=pageone&article_no=3605&page=1 <--- that one |
| 06:58 | <@Vornicus> | Well, for one thing, it doesn't exist. |
| 06:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | O__o; |
| 06:58 | <@Vornicus> | What /did/ happen is the chief registrar of the united states ahd a hearing with some random subcommittee. |
| 06:59 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Sleeping all day makes me hungry. O__o; It's like a hibernation XD; |
| 07:00 | <@Vornicus> | But essentially none of the conclusions this article comes to are true. |
| 07:00 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I see. |
| 07:00 | <@Jeff> | ToxicFrog, can I run the fairness/unfairness of a puzzle by you? |
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| 07:05 | | * Vornicus can have a look-see, Jeff. |
| 07:07 | <@Jeff> | ToxicFrog is the one who is (vaguely) familiar with the game's setup. |
| 07:08 | <@Vornicus> | ah. oh well |
| 07:09 | | * McMartin returns |
| 07:10 | <@McMartin> | Jeff: "Unfairness" comes in three basic forms: Interaction failures (guess-the-verb, broken synonyms, critical yet entirely undescribed scenery, etc.), little-to-no margin for error, and irreversibility of innocuous actions having big effects later. |
| 07:10 | <@McMartin> | The former is obviously to be avoided; the latter two are justifiable, though presently somewhat unfashionable. |
| 07:11 | <@Jeff> | This would fall in #3, but the effect is "margin for error later reduced, relative to when you figured it out." |
| 07:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | IMO, the last of those is permissible only if it doesn't render the game unwinnable. |
| 07:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or if it makes it clear that it does. |
| 07:11 | <@McMartin> | I find it acceptable for a certain brand of puzzlebox. |
| 07:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Cf, say, Morrowind (in which it's made immediately obvious if you've broken the game). |
| 07:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh? |
| 07:12 | <@McMartin> | Well, two brands. |
| 07:12 | <@McMartin> | The one I was *thinking* of was Varicella and Orevore Courier and the like |
| 07:12 | <@McMartin> | Where shit is going on all over the place and the puzzle is to use a bunch of replays to optimize your responses to waste all your rivals. |
| 07:12 | <@McMartin> | And the game is over in less than a hundred moves. |
| 07:13 | <@McMartin> | Arguably, Moebius does this too, but with "stuck in an in-game timeloop" instead of actually typing RESTART. |
| 07:13 | <@McMartin> | The one that sprung to mind afterwards was Lock and Key, which is *effectively* a two-move game |
| 07:14 | <@McMartin> | It's just that your "move" takes several dozen commands to actually implement, since it is, essentially, "lay out this dungeon with fiendish traps according to both my master plan and my budget" |
| 07:14 | <@McMartin> | Followed by "supervise the dungeon control mechanisms while some hapless hero attempts to defeat said dungeon" |
| 07:14 | <@Jeff> | Lock and Key sounds interesting. |
| 07:14 | <@McMartin> | It's too bad that there's really only one solution to it. |
| 07:15 | <@McMartin> | But it's a lot of fun to mess around with, anyway |
| 07:15 | <@McMartin> | In any event, if you lay the dungeon out wrong, you're doomed as soon as you commit - though watching the failure mode is instructive. |
| 07:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, that kind of iterative-improvement game I have no real problem with. |
| 07:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's games that are in theory meant to be played in a single timeline where the wheels come off. |
| 07:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Especially if the failure mode is "stuck game" rather than "nonstandard game over" |
| 07:16 | | * Vornicus should hunt up and play The Chinese Room. |
| 07:16 | <@McMartin> | Ew, yes. |
| 07:16 | <@McMartin> | I consider any instance of "stuck game" a fatal bug. |
| 07:16 | <@McMartin> | That's worse than unwinnable. |
| 07:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or if it's "nonstandard game over, several hours of gameplay after you performed the action that rendered this inevitable" |
| 07:16 | <@McMartin> | Welllll |
| 07:16 | <@Jeff> | Is "best ending" still OK? |
| 07:16 | <@McMartin> | I have no objection to locking out the best ending |
| 07:16 | <@Reiver> | stuck game? |
| 07:17 | <@McMartin> | Reiver: Progress is now impossible; the game can be neither won nor loss |
| 07:17 | <@McMartin> | lost |
| 07:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Neither do I |
| 07:17 | <@Vornicus> | Stuck game: you end up in a position where you can't do anything useful. |
| 07:17 | <@McMartin> | Though I have to hedge a leeeeeetle bit on this one |
| 07:17 | <@Reiver> | AKA instead of falling down a pit to land on spikes, you instead land on normal dirt - and now can't get out? |
| 07:17 | <@McMartin> | What we're discussing here is referred to by the theorists as "cruelty" |
| 07:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | I do, however, have an objection to locking out *all* the non-failure endings, when it happens early enough |
| 07:18 | <@McMartin> | And I have to hedge because Enchanter is cruel as hell, but it's also not at all difficult. |
| 07:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Because then, your only options are, say, get eaten by the troll because you forgot to pick up the key waaaay back at the start of the game, or fall into the spiked pit and die, or be captured by the evil wizard and turned into a newt |
| 07:18 | <@McMartin> | But you can lock the game out of victory in one turn by frotzing yourself and thus making it impossible to hide later, or by burning your one-shot counterspell in the wrong place, etc. |
| 07:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | But you don't find this out until you're at the final showdown. |
| 07:19 | <@McMartin> | A lot of this has to do with the length of the game. |
| 07:19 | <@McMartin> | The obnox factor is "OK, you're fucked. How much do you have to replay?" |
| 07:19 | <@McMartin> | And that's an absolute number, not a relative one. |
| 07:19 | <@McMartin> | If the game is supposed to be 40 hours long, you had damn well better not be locking anything out that UNDO can't immediately fix. |
| 07:20 | <@McMartin> | If the game is 40 moves, you probably *should* be cruel because otherwise there isn't going to be enough glorious destruction to unleash upon the world model. |
| 07:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. |
| 07:21 | <@McMartin> | My own work tends towards "Polite" - anything that doesn't end the game outright won't lock out the best ending. |
| 07:21 | <@McMartin> | (The one below it, "Merciful", has only non-failure endings) |
| 07:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | So I suppose my complaint isn't actually about games that are cruel per se, but about games where cruelty * length exceeds some threshold. |
| 07:22 | <@McMartin> | The steps between Polite and Cruel are the subject of a fair amount of debate, and both are pretty rare. |
| 07:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | And now, slep. |
| 07:22 | <@McMartin> | The one just below Cruel is "Nasty", in which it's obvious, after the fact, that you've performed some irreversible action that may cost you the game. |
| 07:23 | <@McMartin> | And the one between Polite and Nasty is Tough, in which it's unavoidably obvious *before* the fact. |
| 07:23 | <@McMartin> | Those two are the subject of arguments because it's not clear what counts as "obvious" or "unavoidable". |
| 07:23 | <@Vornicus> | "I should save before doing this" and "I should have saved before doing that" |
| 07:23 | <@McMartin> | Right |
| 07:24 | <@McMartin> | While Cruel you don't notice until much later "Shit, I shouldn't have done that." |
| 07:24 | <@Vornicus> | and of course "You mean I had to feed the dog the sandwich?" |
| 07:24 | <@McMartin> | (You didn't. There were alternate solutions) |
| 07:24 | <@Vornicus> | (well, okay) |
| 07:24 | <@McMartin> | (Of course, I never made it off Earth) |
| 07:24 | <@Vornicus> | (me neither, so) |
| 07:25 | <@McMartin> | ("You mean I had to take the toothbrush with me?", however, is I believe valid) |
| 07:25 | <@McMartin> | (There were a set of objects you had to take to the endgame, and if you missed any of them, it "randomly" - ha ha - chose *that* one to be the one that was critical to victory) |
| 07:26 | <@McMartin> | For a version of that that *isn't* pure fucking evil, the cube-weighing puzzle in Spellbreaker is a good example. |
| 07:26 | <@McMartin> | It's the classic "here are N objects, you have log_2(N) weighings or whatever to figure out which one weighs a different amount from the others." |
| 07:26 | <@McMartin> | Now, if you do a thorough search, you will always find the right answer. |
| 07:27 | <@McMartin> | But even a random search *might* work, and the game rigs it so that random searches never work. |
| 07:27 | <@McMartin> | I have no problem with *that*, either. |
| 07:27 | | * Vornicus wonders how it manages that. |
| 07:27 | <@McMartin> | Basically, you keep track of what the player can conclude based on his weighings. |
| 07:27 | <@Vornicus> | ...oh, kinda like the 12-heads thing |
| 07:28 | <@Vornicus> | yeah |
| 07:28 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 07:28 | <@McMartin> | And if the answer isn't 100% "yes", then the answer ends up always being "no" |
| 07:28 | <@McMartin> | (The game also blocked save/restore during the sequence) |
| 07:29 | <@Vornicus> | (the 12 heads of john the baptist was a speedif where you need 3 clues to determine which head is the right one. And if you don't get all three clues, then all 12 heads are wrong) |
| 07:29 | <@McMartin> | But you could catch it out on that since UNDO wasn't blocked~ |
| 07:29 | <@Vornicus> | heh |
| 07:32 | | * Vornicus giggles at Chinese Room |
| 07:32 | <@Vornicus> | >stand on desk |
| 07:32 | <@Vornicus> | You stand on the desk and shout "Oh Captain, my Captain!" You feel pretty cool, but it doesn't get you very far, so you jump off again. |
| 07:33 | <@McMartin> | Chinese Room is fun. |
| 07:33 | <@McMartin> | And I don't only say that because they give me a shout-out in the Acknowledgements |
| 07:33 | <@Vornicus> | Why do they give you a shout-out? |
| 07:33 | <@McMartin> | Because they're using my conversation code. |
| 07:33 | <@McMartin> | (> VERSION) |
| 07:34 | <@Vornicus> | aha |
| 07:34 | <@McMartin> | In fact, it's because of them I wrote QBC, based on difficulties they had writing this. |
| 07:34 | <@McMartin> | That said, it guided them to do things with the convo model that I approve of |
| 07:34 | <@McMartin> | So, you know, that will show those fools at the Institute |
| 07:34 | <@Vornicus> | I guess the Institute is feeling pretty foolish nowadays. |
| 07:36 | | * Vornicus ...tries to figure out how to use the manual and the cards. |
| 07:37 | <@McMartin> | Have you ABOUTed yet? |
| 07:37 | <@McMartin> | I forget the command, but basically there's an EXPLAIN PHILOSOPHICAL INJOKE command. |
| 07:37 | <@Vornicus> | heh |
| 07:37 | <@McMartin> | It's both important for the puzzles, entertaining reading, and generally enlightening; these guys know their stuff |
| 07:38 | <@Vornicus> | ...heh. |
| 07:38 | | * Vornicus THINKs ABOUT CHINESE |
| 07:42 | <@Vornicus> | >destroy computer |
| 07:42 | <@Vornicus> | I'm afraid I can't let you do that, Dave. |
| 07:42 | <@McMartin> | Snrk |
| 07:43 | <@Vornicus> | actually I'm trying to figure out how to use the cards and the manual - the manual converts characters into other characters, which I guess if I had I would be able to type into the computer. |
| 07:44 | <@Vornicus> | Really though I'd like to reach the hatch, but I can't move the desk, which is the only thing I can stand on. |
| 07:46 | <@Vornicus> | There it goes. |
| 07:52 | <@Vornicus> | "Well, you can only be thankful that there aren't two legs sticking out from under the hut, and that the crowds of tiny people appear to have neglected to lay on a welcome party." |
| 07:55 | <@Vornicus> | Heee. |
| 07:55 | <@Vornicus> | This is a silly game. |
| 07:57 | <@McMartin> | It is. |
| 07:57 | | * McMartin particularly likes Mr. Boole's role. |
| 07:58 | | * Vornicus giggled profusely at the bit about I Will Survive. |
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| 08:21 | <@Vornicus> | (evidently smoking bans do not exist in thought experiments) |
| 08:23 | <@Shoukanjuu> | (What.) |
| 08:23 | <@Vornicus> | I'm playing The Chinese Room |
| 08:23 | <@Vornicus> | it is an eminently silly game. |
| 08:23 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Ah, |
| 08:24 | <@Vornicus> | Also, I want :( to do something in IF |
| 08:24 | | * Shoukanjuu walks into the future backwards |
| 08:24 | <@Kazriko> | I started on one way back in junior high, but it never went anywhere. |
| 08:24 | <@Kazriko> | (using GAGS) |
| 08:24 | <@Vornicus> | Well, now there's Inform 7. |
| 08:25 | <@Vornicus> | Even I can write an IF. Hell, I have. |
| 08:25 | <@Kazriko> | My ideas would have worked better as a straight rpg though. |
| 08:26 | <@Kazriko> | but GAGS was the only tool I had at the time. |
| 08:28 | <@McMartin> | GAGS is awesomely terrible. |
| 08:28 | <@Kazriko> | heh. |
| 08:28 | <@McMartin> | I mean, AGT is a "trash-heap of history" system now and it postdates it |
| 08:28 | <@Kazriko> | it was 1992-3ish though... What else was out at the time? |
| 08:29 | <@McMartin> | The best thing available was semicommercial. |
| 08:29 | <@McMartin> | TADS 3. |
| 08:29 | <@McMartin> | Er |
| 08:29 | <@McMartin> | TADS 2 |
| 08:29 | <@McMartin> | TADS 3 is the heinously complex but finally actually documented successor system. |
| 08:30 | <@McMartin> | Inform in its various incarnations targets the old Infocom VM. |
| 08:30 | <@Kazriko> | nod. and I was pretty much sticking to shareware at the time. I did buy one graphical type kit that was vaguely like GAGS. |
| 08:30 | <@jerith> | Kazriko: GAGB? |
| 08:30 | <@Kazriko> | but had lameness like the only way to end the game was to make a room you couldn't exit. heh |
| 08:30 | <@jerith> | That built sort of early-ultima type games. |
| 08:30 | <@Kazriko> | I can't even recall what it was. |
| 08:30 | <@Kazriko> | it was more like very early sierra games. |
| 08:31 | <@jerith> | Ah. |
| 08:31 | <@Shoukanjuu> | george Cypher was apparently a master thief e.e |
| 08:31 | <@jerith> | I toyed with GAGS before giving it up as tedious. |
| 08:31 | <@Kazriko> | yeah, that's pretty much where my project went. |
| 08:31 | <@Kazriko> | I made a dozen rooms or so, couldn't get monsters to move around, gave up. but it did lead me to Turbo Pascal. |
| 08:32 | <@Kazriko> | i borrowed my uncle's copy of TP4 and learned from the manual. |
| 08:32 | <@Kazriko> | because the docs for gags said the source code could be bought for pascal if you wanted to add features... |
| 08:33 | <@Kazriko> | Other than that, I've not messed with infocom things past Starcross and HHGttG. |
| 08:33 | <@Kazriko> | or even IF. |
| 08:33 | <@Kazriko> | (or rather, since that.) |
| 08:36 | | * McMartin suggests his own work >_> |
| 08:36 | | * Vornicus suggests Dreamhold and Lost Pig. |
| 08:36 | <@McMartin> | http://www.ifwiki.org/index.php/Weishaupt_Scholars |
| 08:37 | <@McMartin> | And yeah, Dreamhold and Lost Pig are better games. |
| 08:37 | | * jerith suggegests McMartin's work. |
| 08:37 | <@jerith> | -ge |
| 08:37 | <@McMartin> | Lost Pig perhaps not the best starter game, though. |
| 08:37 | <@jerith> | Lag ftl. |
| 08:37 | <@Vornicus> | True |
| 08:38 | | * jerith is also rather partial to Spider and Web. |
| 08:39 | <@Vornicus> | Spider and Web is great too, yes |
| 08:42 | <@McMartin> | S&W is absolutely not a starter game |
| 08:42 | <@McMartin> | Then there's, uh, Pick Up The Phone Booth And Aisle, 200 in-jokes in less than 300k |
| 08:42 | <@Vornicus> | PUTPBAA |
| 08:42 | <@jerith> | Aisle kept me entertained for ages. |
| 08:43 | <@Vornicus> | Dreamhold is specificially designed as a starter game. |
| 08:43 | <@jerith> | PUTBAA a little less so. |
| 08:43 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 08:46 | <@Kazriko> | Before I gave up on GAGS, i had fun with some very old dos ones, marooned on mars, another lifeless planet and me with no beer, and such. |
| 08:46 | <@Kazriko> | (Nearly all sf. :) |
| 08:47 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, uh, the medium's gotten a lot better over the past couple decades. |
| 08:47 | <@McMartin> | Though I still have an unholy soft spot for Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head Nor Tail Of It |
| 08:48 | <@Kazriko> | if I ever get time between projects and console games, i'll try one of them again. |
| 08:51 | | * Vornicus-Latens is still proud of his first IF. |
| 08:51 | <@Shoukanjuu> | What is an IF? O_o; |
| 08:52 | <@McMartin> | Kazriko: It helps that the modern games tend to be scaled to two hours. |
| 08:52 | <@McMartin> | IF: Interactive fiction. |
| 08:52 | <@McMartin> | The preferred euphemism for text adventures. |
| 08:52 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I've been watching this conversation for hours and I couldn't get that XD; |
| 08:52 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I see. |
| 08:52 | <@Kazriko> | I see. I'm used to games that take 40-45 hours. :) |
| 08:52 | <@McMartin> | http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/if/WS/IntroductionToIF.pdf |
| 08:52 | <@Kazriko> | I'm currently working on Grandia 1, and Disgaea. |
| 08:52 | <@McMartin> | A fair number of modern games are also largely puzzleless |
| 08:53 | <@McMartin> | WS has puzzles, but most of them are optional, since it was an experiment with weaving failures into the plot~ |
| 08:53 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Interactive fiction also includes stuff like Monkey island and Myst, usually |
| 08:54 | <@Kazriko> | (and spacequest? :) |
| 08:54 | | * Kazriko still hasn't tried Monkey Island either. |
| 08:54 | <@McMartin> | (Until V or so, at which point it became pointless~) |
| 08:55 | <@Kazriko> | I've finished 1-4 and 6. 6 was actually rather fun. |
| 08:55 | <@McMartin> | The "heinously-restricted verb + hotspot" system does lose something, though, which is why Myst is closer to textual IF than MI is. |
| 08:55 | <@McMartin> | MI gets dangerously close to CYOA, while Myst and Zork alike reward a "close reading". |
| 08:55 | | * Vornicus-Latens tranquilizes the quarrelsome rhinoceros. |
| 08:57 | | * Vornicus-Latens then actually goes to bed. |
| 08:57 | | * Kazriko wishes he had purchased/played Avarice too before he dropped his os/2 system. |
| 09:00 | <@Kazriko> | http://www.stardock.com/products/avarice/ |
| 09:54 | <@McMartin> | Doors are hard when you're a superhero. |
| 09:55 | <@McMartin> | It's a wooden door with a deadbolt, so you can (a) find the key, (b) destroy the lock with a crowbar, or (c) punch the door to splinters. |
| 09:55 | <@McMartin> | And if you do (b) or (c) I have to then give appropriate refusals for trying to treat the door as if it were intact. |
| 09:55 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Can't I just melt the deadbolt with laser vision? |
| 09:55 | <@McMartin> | No, because your only superpower is flapping your arms so fast you can fly. |
| 09:56 | <@Shoukanjuu> | .... |
| 09:56 | <@McMartin> | Though this *does* give you Ludicrously Overdeveloped Pecs, hence the punching out doors. |
| 09:56 | <@Shoukanjuu> | That...That makes no sense |
| 09:56 | <@McMartin> | And laser vision does? |
| 09:56 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Arms don't generate enough lift or drag |
| 09:56 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Well |
| 09:56 | <@Shoukanjuu> | ...I guess you have a point |
| 09:57 | <@McMartin> | (This is the IF I've been working on on and off for awhile now) |
| 10:43 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 11:30 | | * jerith should try to get his hands on Myst sometime. |
| 11:33 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I'ma chargin mah tops >_> |
| 11:35 | | * jerith discharges them. |
| 11:35 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Aw. I can't use some internet meme to say how good I am with R.O.B.? |
| 11:39 | | * McMartin punts Shoukanjuu into orbit. "Abuse your recovery skillz now!" |
| 11:39 | <@McMartin> | Also, jerith: I found Riven to be on the whole the most satisfying of the series. |
| 11:39 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Let me rephrase that |
| 11:39 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I suck with R.O.B. |
| 11:40 | <@Shoukanjuu> | :D XD All about MArth, really |
| 11:40 | <@McMartin> | Though I admit that I actually managed to solve Myst without hints, except for one heinous topological bug that threw me off in Stoneship Age. |
| 11:49 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I just killed an Intense Pit with a soccer ball. |
| 11:53 | <@McMartin> | Soccer Balls will pwn you up good, man |
| 11:54 | <@Shoukanjuu> | And the intense MArth jusmped off the edge to his death |
| 11:54 | <@Shoukanjuu> | And why can't I NOT capitalize that A |
| 11:55 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Yoshi just did that egg thing right off the edge XD |
| 11:56 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-10613.8.5.253.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #Code |
| 11:56 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 11:58 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Unfortunately, Intense Pok?mon are still intensely cheap. |
| 11:59 | <@McMartin> | They're cheap on Easy too~ |
| 11:59 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Hence "Still" |
| 12:00 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I'm doing Allstar Intense with Wolf |
| 12:00 | <@McMartin> | Pain |
| 12:01 | <@McMartin> | (says the guy who's only beaten Allstar on easy, and only managed up to VH on Classic) |
| 12:01 | <@Shoukanjuu> | If you've got the coin, try it |
| 12:01 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I've gotten to the pokemon without dying |
| 12:02 | <@McMartin> | I don't =( |
| 12:02 | <@Shoukanjuu> | And I just died. |
| 12:02 | <@Shoukanjuu> | v_V |
| 12:02 | <@McMartin> | I blew my coins trying to get the Chao trophy. >_> |
| 12:02 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Ivysaur+Golden Hammer |
| 12:02 | <@McMartin> | Golden Hammer? |
| 12:02 | <@McMartin> | (What's the fastest way to rack up coin, anyway?) |
| 12:02 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Subspace emmisary, I think |
| 12:03 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Haha, Landmaster'd |
| 12:05 | | * Shoukanjuu spams a t ilt |
| 12:05 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I got a negative score once |
| 12:08 | <@Shoukanjuu> | To hell with doing this stuff on Intense...I already beat it with MArth, Ike, and Wolf |
| 12:08 | | * Shoukanjuu turns it down to Easy |
| 12:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I'm playing Allstar: The golden Hammer is liek hte hammer, except it can be miore powerful and let you FLOAT |
| 12:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Jsut be more powerful |
| 12:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Or be a squeaky toy :3 |
| 12:16 | | * Shoukanjuu kills Pit and Samus with only Fox's reflector |
| 12:20 | <@McMartin> | Ah, yes |
| 12:21 | <@Shoukanjuu> | ...I thought for a second I discovered a cancel for Fox's phantasm |
| 12:32 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I'mgoing to go read some more before going back to sleep *nods* |
| 12:32 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Later, all |
| 12:32 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Keep it sureal |
| 12:33 | <@Shoukanjuu> | surreal* |
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| 13:18 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 14:21 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 14:46 | < Tarinaky> | Does anyone know a way in C++/C of dropping all but the last 5 digits (Base 10) of an integer? |
| 14:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. |
| 14:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | Number = Number % 10000; |
| 14:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | IIRC. |
| 14:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | Give or take 1. |
| 14:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | Hm, no, don't give or take 1. That's only if you need >0 numbers. |
| 14:51 | < Tarinaky> | Right, now I'm getting a compile error, lemme stick it on a pastebin (it's only 12 lines of code) |
| 14:53 | < Tarinaky> | Oh, -thats- what +U means. |
| 14:53 | | mode/#code [+o Tarinaky] by AnnoDomini |
| 14:53 | <@Tarinaky> | http://rafb.net/p/O8bYlF97.html << It doesn't like line 8 and I can't work out why >.> probably something daft. |
| 14:54 | <@AnnoDomini> | pow(i,i) returns a double, IIRC. |
| 14:54 | <@AnnoDomini> | % wants integers. |
| 14:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh yes, I see >.> |
| 14:55 | <@AnnoDomini> | Try: int temp = pow(i,i); iTotal = iTotal + (temp % 100000); |
| 14:55 | <@AnnoDomini> | It should give a warning or something, though. |
| 14:56 | <@Tarinaky> | That got it, no warning though, mind it's not set to strict. |
| 14:57 | <@Tarinaky> | Well... by got it I mean it compiles >.> |
| 14:58 | <@AnnoDomini> | There should be five zeroes. |
| 14:58 | <@AnnoDomini> | I think I neglected one the first time. |
| 15:02 | <@Tarinaky> | That wasn't the problem I meant, but I think I got it now anyway. |
| 15:03 | <@Tarinaky> | Nope >.> |
| 15:09 | <@Tarinaky> | I just can't get my variables big enough I think. |
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| 16:00 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Explain to me OO, and what is closest to it, guys? o: |
| 16:02 | <@Shoukanjuu> | I mean, other than the obvious(what it stands for) I have no idea of anything x_X |
| 16:10 | <@jerith> | OO is all about objects and classes. |
| 16:12 | <@jerith> | They key concepts there are encapsulation and smart data. |
| 16:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Mmm. |
| 16:12 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Sounds fun. |
| 16:12 | <@jerith> | It's a useful abstraction for a lot of things. |
| 16:13 | <@Shoukanjuu> | So if I wanted to learn OO, what language should I begin with? |
| 16:14 | <@jerith> | Python. |
| 16:14 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Awesome. |
| 16:14 | <@jerith> | Its OO is explicit and doesn't get in the way. |
| 16:15 | <@Shoukanjuu> | What if I wanted it to get in the way? >.> |
| 16:15 | <@jerith> | Then you'd use Java. |
| 16:16 | <@Shoukanjuu> | As a hypothetical, not self destructive thing. Okay. XD |
| 16:18 | <@Shoukanjuu> | "Whit space is nice but I like me some brackets" Zeld says |
| 16:18 | <@jerith> | form __future__ import braces |
| 16:18 | <@jerith> | *from |
| 16:19 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Hehe |
| 16:20 | <@jerith> | Did you try it? |
| 16:20 | <@Shoukanjuu> | "If you are familiar with reverse engineering software/hardware or have a background in decompiling, C/C++, and ASM" |
| 16:20 | <@Shoukanjuu> | No, I haven't |
| 16:21 | <@Shoukanjuu> | hahaha |
| 16:21 | <@Shoukanjuu> | syntax error: not a chance |
| 16:21 | | * jerith grins. |
| 16:23 | <@Shoukanjuu> | Anyway, this is why I wish to code >> I want to be able to decompile and reverse engineer, and since they are looking for people with experience with C/C++ and ASM, I wanted to lear nthat :O |
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| 17:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 18:17 | | * Vornicus steals Sartre's money. |
| 18:17 | | * Shoukanjuu steals Vornicus' S rank weapon |
| 18:18 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:19 | | * Vornicus doesn't have an S rank weapon. |
| 18:19 | | * Shoukanjuu not anymore you don't |
| 18:20 | | Doctor_Nick [~nick@Nightstar-23600.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 18:20 | | * Vornicus never did. What the crap is an s rank weapon? |
| 18:21 | < Shoukanjuu> | There is a severe lack of Fire Emblem in your life. |
| 18:21 | < Doctor_Nick> | What's the compiler directive for c that says "only include this line if the program is compiled with the debug flag"? |
| 18:21 | < Shoukanjuu> | Append: "I'm fixing this" |
| 18:21 | < Doctor_Nick> | If i was using gcc |
| 18:22 | < Shoukanjuu> | S is the highest rank in the weapon level category |
| 18:22 | < Shoukanjuu> | Starting at E and backwards to A, then going to S. E, D, C, B, A, S. In Radiant Dawn, there is another weapon level, SS, which is the highest :/ |
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| 18:28 | < Doctor_Nick> | or have I just been spoiled on ADA? |
| 18:33 | < Doctor_Nick> | or do you not know what I'm talking about? |
| 18:34 | <@gnolam> | #ifdef DEBUG |
| 18:34 | <@gnolam> | ... |
| 18:34 | <@gnolam> | #endif |
| 18:34 | <@gnolam> | ? |
| 18:34 | < Shoukanjuu> | ...? |
| 18:34 | < Doctor_Nick> | thats it? |
| 18:36 | <@gnolam> | I'm not 100% sure what you mean. |
| 18:37 | <@gnolam> | But well... that's the usual way. #ifdef/#ifndef directives together with compile-time defines (-Dfoo in GCC). |
| 18:37 | < Doctor_Nick> | ah |
| 18:38 | < Doctor_Nick> | ok |
| 18:38 | < Doctor_Nick> | I just wanted a program I was writing to include some extra print statements if i was compiling it to debug |
| 18:40 | < Doctor_Nick> | yeah, that did it |
| 18:40 | < Doctor_Nick> | thanks |
| 18:49 | < Doctor_Nick> | oh thats why |
| 18:49 | < Doctor_Nick> | it was trying to allocate a 200000 * 200000 long long integer array |
| 18:49 | < Doctor_Nick> | silly me |
| 18:52 | <@Vornicus> | heh |
| 18:58 | < Doctor_Nick> | looks like i'll have to use some sparse matrix library |
| 20:07 | < Doctor_Nick> | boo yah |
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| --- Log closed Mon Apr 14 00:00:53 2008 |