search of the:   for: 
code logs -> 2008 -> Sat, 12 Apr 2008< code.20080411.log - code.20080413.log >
--- Log opened Sat Apr 12 00:00:33 2008
01:29 AFKSkull [~none@Nightstar-7066.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code
02:15 gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-10613.8.5.253.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Z?]
03:41 Chalain [~chalain@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Client exited]
03:42 Chalain [~chalain@ServicesAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
03:42 mode/#code [+o Chalain] by ChanServ
05:14 You're now known as TheWatcher
06:00 C_tiger [~c_wyz@Nightstar-25761.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: And away she goes!]
07:34 Kazriko [~kaz@72.174.26.ns-12779] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:37 Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens
09:00 AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29468.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code
09:00 mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ
09:42 Kazriko [~kaz@72.174.26.ns-12779] has joined #code
09:42 mode/#code [+o Kazriko] by ChanServ
10:42
<@McMartin>
After eating the cake: now the cakelessness is part of the player; say "You eat the delicious, moist cake until it runs out!" The cake is edible.
10:43
<@McMartin>
Cakelessness is a scenery thing. Before doing something with the cakelessness, say "The cake is gone, and you don't even care." instead. Understand "cake" as the cakelessness.
10:43
<@Jeff>
o.O
10:45 * McMartin is working on implementing TADS 3-style "Unthings" in Inform 7.
10:45
<@McMartin>
That doesn't quite work, because THROW ROCK AT CAKE doesn't give the no-cake message.
10:45
<@McMartin>
You need "Before doing something when the noun is the cakelessness or the second noun is the cakelessness."
10:47
< Shoukanjuu>
...What XD
10:47
<@McMartin>
(If you haven't seen Inform 7 before, it uses multiple-word identifiers and a rule-based system to try to look like English. It succeeds much more than most such attempts.)
10:48
<@McMartin>
Example, from my actually serious work in progress, in which I set a bunch of properties, then define a boolean-equivalent enum and initialize it:
10:48
<@McMartin>
The defense grid is an open scenery door. The defense grid is not openable. The defense grid is south of the Hangar and north of the Staging Area.
10:48
<@McMartin>
The defense grid can be full of lasery doom. The defense grid is not full of lasery doom.
10:52
< Shoukanjuu>
hahaha
10:52
< Shoukanjuu>
I should play Portal eventually
10:53
< Shoukanjuu>
But something tells me that I need something more advanced than Directx 8 virtualization
10:53
<@McMartin>
Tricky. I ran it in a DX8 mode, IIRC, though my card is *nominally* 9.0c
10:53
<@McMartin>
The portals themselves end up looking slightly less awesome, but that's about the only difference
10:54
< Shoukanjuu>
Well, seeing as how I'm not actually going to buy it, just like I didn't buy the OS to place on a bootcamp partition
10:55
< Shoukanjuu>
It might just be better to use the partition
10:55
< Shoukanjuu>
insteal of using 'VMWare Fusion' to do so
10:55
< Shoukanjuu>
But I do rather hate how ugly XP looks. :/
10:58 Netsplit DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net <-> Blargh.CA.US.Nightstar.Net quits: DiceBot, @Attilla
10:58 Netsplit DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net <-> Troika.TX.US.Nightstar.Net quits: @MyCatVerbs, @Pi, Vornicus-Latens, Shoukanjuu, @jerith, @Kazriko, @Reiver, @Chalain
11:00 Netsplit over, joins: Attilla
11:00 mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ
11:32 NSGuest-3333 [~sysop@Nightstar-6430.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #code
11:32 Vornicus [~vorn@64.252.84.ns-12201] has joined #code
11:32 Kazriko [~kaz@Nightstar-26352.gdj-co.client.bresnan.net] has joined #code
11:32 Reiver [~reaverta@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
11:32 Shoukanjuu [~Shoukanju@Nightstar-19231.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #code
11:32 MyCatVerbs [~mycatverb@Nightstar-13709.lurkingfox.co.uk] has joined #Code
11:32 DiceBot [~Reiver@Nightstar-8904.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #Code
11:32 DiceBot [~Reiver@Nightstar-8904.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Killed (OperServ (Session limit exceeded))]
11:32 gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-10613.8.5.253.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #Code
11:33 mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ
11:33 jerith [~jerith@Nightstar-21563.slipgate.za.net] has joined #code
11:33 Chalain [~chalain@Nightstar-26790.bkwm.com] has joined #code
11:33 Vornicus is now known as NSGuest-6031
11:33 MyCatVerbs is now known as NSGuest-6032
12:09 C_tiger [~c_wyz@Nightstar-25761.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #code
12:09 mode/#code [+o C_tiger] by ChanServ
12:13 Jeff [Kaline@Nightstar-12038.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
12:18 soccer_gi [pusy_girl@Nightstar-2106.106.42.56.tm.upcnet.ro] has joined #code
12:28 soccer_gi [pusy_girl@Nightstar-2106.106.42.56.tm.upcnet.ro] has left #code []
12:33
<@AnnoDomini>
That's weird. I've just had some strings who refused to show up as equal via == in Java. Had to use equals().
12:36
< jerith>
== is object equality.
12:37
< jerith>
Two strings will only be equal via == if (a) they're null or (b) they're references to the same string.
12:38
<@AnnoDomini>
Oh, I see.
12:38
< jerith>
Yeah, it sucks.
12:38
<@AnnoDomini>
Yeah, considering that they're concatenated via +. <_<
12:54 AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29468.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout]
13:02 AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29231.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code
13:02 mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ
13:04 You're now known as TheWatcher[afk]
13:51
<@AnnoDomini>
jerith: I want to get the current date in Java, but I don't really understand how Date and all works. How do I do it?
13:54
< Shoukanjuu>
Why are there bans set? O_o;
13:55
<@AnnoDomini>
Because.
13:56
< Shoukanjuu>
sudo Why are there bans set? >_>
13:57
<@AnnoDomini>
A tree grows near the shore.
13:58
<@AnnoDomini>
Ommmmmmmm.
13:58 * Shoukanjuu beats AnnonDomini back to BC
13:58 * AnnoDomini retaliates with a large carp.
13:58
< Shoukanjuu>
I am considering just jumping to C++ from where I am. *is hit with a fish, dies*
14:01
< Shoukanjuu>
Because if I am to le arn assembly, I should start in C++
14:02
< Shoukanjuu>
Not that I think I'm ready for C++; it's that I know that I am not that makes me need to start in it
14:02
< Shoukanjuu>
If I get too...used to Python
14:02
< Shoukanjuu>
I'll find C++ harder to learn
14:03
< Shoukanjuu>
So starting out fresh, but with a slight understanding of how some things work, will benefit me greatly < :
14:08
< Shoukanjuu>
Either way, however, it will have to happen when I got far enough into this second Sword of Truth book to have ot stay open on its own. :3
14:09
< jerith>
You want to avoid C++ like the plague if at all possible.
14:09
<@AnnoDomini>
Stone of Tears is one of the best parts of the series.
14:10 * AnnoDomini seconds what jerith said.
14:10
<@AnnoDomini>
Try Java first.
14:10
< jerith>
AnnoDomini: new Date().now
14:11
< Shoukanjuu>
Well...
14:11
< Shoukanjuu>
What should I brush through before going into assembly? @_@
14:12
< Shoukanjuu>
Java? Would that work? Would it be challenging enough to go into C++? O_o;
14:12
<@AnnoDomini>
Nothing can prepare you for assembly.
14:12
<@AnnoDomini>
NOTHING.
14:12
<@gnolam>
C.
14:12
< Shoukanjuu>
Then I will go into assembly immediately, then. o:
14:12
< Shoukanjuu>
Because I'm crazy
14:13
< Shoukanjuu>
My friend STARTED in assembly and dammit
14:13
< Shoukanjuu>
If he can do it
14:13
< Shoukanjuu>
There's no way I won't
14:14
< jerith>
Assembly isn't difficult.
14:14
<@AnnoDomini>
You'd do well to know binary arithmetic and gate logic.
14:14
< jerith>
It's quite simple, actually.
14:14
< Reiver>
It's just also generally pointless for anything other than the most fundamental of applications.
14:14
< Shoukanjuu>
PErfect. Just what I wanted.
14:14
< Reiver>
I mean, you could code Word in assembly, but /why/?
14:14
< jerith>
But it entirely lacks abstraction and thus you are operating at the highest level of detail all the time.
14:15
< Shoukanjuu>
why /not/
14:15
< Shoukanjuu>
Okay. <_<
14:15
<@AnnoDomini>
Shoukanjuu: If you've got a spare lifetime...
14:15
< jerith>
Because it's tedous, painful an error-prone.
14:15
< jerith>
The last is the killer.
14:15
< Shoukanjuu>
I've got at least twnety years before I do something stupid again
14:15
< Reiver>
Assembly doesn't have Functions, so to speak.
14:15
< Shoukanjuu>
And that's more than twenty, I hope
14:16
< Shoukanjuu>
Well, I know a little of it, or where it is, at least
14:16
< Shoukanjuu>
ARM 7 and 9. >_>
14:16
< Reiver>
If you want to do something right now, you have the wonderful priveledge to code it /right now/.
14:16
<@gnolam>
I reserve my use of assembly for the fun stuff. I.e. embedded programming and retro systems. :)
14:16
< Reiver>
Also the main danger to learning assembler first off the bat is that it'll teach you bad coder habits. >.>
14:17
<@AnnoDomini>
What bad coder habits are that, Reiver?
14:17
< Shoukanjuu>
Donuts, of course :)
14:17
< Reiver>
Anno: Well, not /bad/ per se
14:17 * jerith does not write asm for anything larger than a wristwatch.
14:18
< Shoukanjuu>
I'm trying to get into Wii homebrew and dev
14:18
< Shoukanjuu>
To be of use
14:18
< Shoukanjuu>
Hardware tools come easily
14:18
< Reiver>
But it's certainly not conductive to the OO approaches they're trying to encourage people to learn in order to improve portability and maintainability in the workplace &etc.
14:18
< Shoukanjuu>
Knowledge is a different story
14:22
<@gnolam>
They say JMP and you say "How high?".
14:25
<@AnnoDomini>
Recurse, sinner! The endp is nigh!
14:27 * gnolam steals back his extremely bad joke from Anno.
14:28
<@AnnoDomini>
:(
14:30
<@AnnoDomini>
This Java databases project of mine that I have to finish before going off to Chernobyl is going pretty... muckily. :/
14:32
< Shoukanjuu>
Whatcha doin' in Chernobyl?
14:32
<@AnnoDomini>
Sightseeing.
14:32
< Shoukanjuu>
Ooh.
14:50
<@gnolam>
We're members of the secretive Alpha Beta Gamma fraternity.
14:51
< Shoukanjuu>
Now I know my ABCs, next time won't you sing with me?
14:51
< Shoukanjuu>
>:3
14:55
< Reiver>
ABGs~
14:55
< Shoukanjuu>
I'm fairly sure that gamma is the third letter of the greek alphabet >_> Of course, I never payed attention in school; not that they'd teach such a thing
15:01 You're now known as TheWatcher
15:02
< Shoukanjuu>
Thusly, the allusion to C, our third letter of the alphabet
15:09
<@AnnoDomini>
Man, this application will be an ugly, ugly piece of crap. But it looks like it'll work.
15:14
< Shoukanjuu>
He wrote a gradient program in less than a minute.
15:21
<@gnolam>
He took a duck in the face at two hundred and fifty knots.
15:21
< Shoukanjuu>
That...That would hurt.
15:22
< Shoukanjuu>
I mean, that's like,...375 miles an hour, roughly, right?
15:22
< Shoukanjuu>
No...
15:22
< Shoukanjuu>
It's not 1.5, it's...uhh...
15:23
< Shoukanjuu>
Damn conversions, I hate the lack of SI in this hellish place
15:23
< Shoukanjuu>
1.15, okay
15:34
<@ToxicFrog>
don't you mean ????
15:35
<@ToxicFrog>
Also, 250 knots is 463 kph.
15:35
< Shoukanjuu>
I couldn't find the symbol for gamma
15:36
<@ToxicFrog>
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/search.htm?q=gamma&preview=entity
15:36
<@ToxicFrog>
Which I need to make a scrapescript for at some point.
15:37
< Shoukanjuu>
Well, seing as how I wasn't REALLY looking
15:37
< Shoukanjuu>
I was more doing stuff along the lines of holding alt and going down every ket I had that wouldn't break something when I did it
15:43
<@ToxicFrog>
Concerning the earlier discussion about C++: if asm is your goal, learning C would be a better choice; it's easier to learn and maps more closely to asm.
15:44
< Shoukanjuu>
Okay o:
15:49
<@ToxicFrog>
(I also note that even if your goal is Wii homebrew, this probably doesn't mean asm - unless by homebrew you mean reverse-engineering and perhaps driver development)
15:49
<@ToxicFrog>
(if other relatively recent consoles are any indication, most homebrew will be written in C or C++, or in high level interpreted languages once the interpreter is ported, eg LuaPlayer on the PSP)
15:49
< Shoukanjuu>
Reverse engineering is a stoart, seeing as how we haven't gotten THAT far with what we can
15:50
< Shoukanjuu>
In which case C++ will be useful :3
15:50
<@ToxicFrog>
Perhaps.
15:50
<@ToxicFrog>
But the point I'm making is that it's not a start, it's something else entirely
15:50
< Shoukanjuu>
Right.
15:50
< Shoukanjuu>
LEarning C++ is good
15:51
< Shoukanjuu>
And if I find that I didn't need ASM when I begin to get into it
15:51
<@ToxicFrog>
Unless you are under some external constraint that requires you to learn C++, I disagree.
15:51
< Shoukanjuu>
It's just something else I'll know, and I'd have already had what I needed by the time I get there
15:51
<@ToxicFrog>
Except in the general sense that all knowledge is worth having.
15:51
< Shoukanjuu>
Oh?
15:51
< Shoukanjuu>
That's what I'm talking about
15:51
< Shoukanjuu>
The general sense of knowledge :P
15:52
<@AnnoDomini>
C++ is argh. Seriously, learn Java. It's friendlier, and the syntax is similar.
15:52
< Shoukanjuu>
Mm...
15:52
<@ToxicFrog>
But for low-level stuff and as a jumping off point to asm, C is better. For apps programming and learning OO concepts, Python is better.
15:52
< Shoukanjuu>
Okay..
15:52
<@ToxicFrog>
For fucked up operator overloads and huge libraries that never do what you need, Java is better.
15:52
<@ToxicFrog>
(ok, that was a bit unkind)
15:52
< Shoukanjuu>
XD
15:54
<@ToxicFrog>
Furthermore
15:54
<@ToxicFrog>
If you learn C, it is easy to go in either direction (to asm or to C++), and most C will compile cleanly as C++ as well in any case.
15:54
< Shoukanjuu>
I see
15:56
<@ToxicFrog>
In either case you're in for a horrible shock, though.
15:56
< Shoukanjuu>
I'm not expecting it to be easy
15:56
< Shoukanjuu>
I'm expecting it to be before I learn something easyt.
15:57
< Shoukanjuu>
Friend learned assembly, see
15:57
< Shoukanjuu>
starting out, before he knew anything :/
15:57
<@ToxicFrog>
(which is why we suggest Python as a starting language; it lets you learn programming without fighting the language. Mostly.)
15:57
< Shoukanjuu>
I suspect the reason it worked so well for him is because he started with something challenging
15:58 * AnnoDomini mumbles about whippersnappers, and proposes learning programming via C64 BASIC.
15:58
<@ToxicFrog>
asm isn't particularly hard to learn, if you're using a sane processor.
15:58
< Shoukanjuu>
We've been through this >.>
15:58
<@ToxicFrog>
It's just hard to use, because it offers no useful abstractions.
16:01
< Shoukanjuu>
Mmm...
16:03
<@ToxicFrog>
And now, I must depart. Later.
16:03
<@AnnoDomini>
Assembly is building a wagon, with a hammer and some nails, but nothing else by way of tools. You get a forest for resources. Have fun chopping down trees with a hammer.
16:03
<@AnnoDomini>
:P
16:04
< Shoukanjuu>
Seeya
16:20 * Shoukanjuu reads Stone of Tears
16:41 * AnnoDomini needs to get a difference between the current date and a date gotten from a field from a table. How do I do this in SQL?
16:44
< jerith>
SELECT unix_timestamp(now()) - unix_timestamp(myfield) from table;
16:44
< jerith>
(May be implementation dependent.)
17:06 You're now known as TheWatcher[afk]
17:20
<@AnnoDomini>
... Why is this thing getting me current date as the same day of the previous month?
17:20 * AnnoDomini is talking of the Java calendar thingie.
17:23 * AnnoDomini sees newts, whenever he gazes upon yellow colons.
17:26
<@AnnoDomini>
Hrm. These bastards must be 0-indexed, although I have no idea why they would be.
17:30
<@AnnoDomini>
Anybody know how to make JButtons use a little more of their space for the text in them? It's a tiny bit annoying how they use only about half, unless they're ginormous. And they don't seem to have word wrap.
17:32 * AnnoDomini ceases coding that for the day. It's already doing what it's supposed to, if in a hugely bastardly way and it has an ugly interface and lacks input sanitation.
17:37 * AnnoDomini goes do things that don't give headaches.
17:53
< Shoukanjuu>
Everything gives headaches. What you must do is nothing. You must try to do said nothing but don't think about doing nothing, for thinking of doing nothing is causing your to do something, and the realization will give you a headache ^_~
17:53
< Shoukanjuu>
Of course, trying to do nothing is in essence trying to do something, but...*shrugs*
17:53 NSGuest-3333 is now known as Pi
18:00 NSGuest-6031 is now known as Vornicus
18:00
<@Attilla>
I don't think drinking water gives you headaches.
18:00
< Shoukanjuu>
It does if it is excessively cold.
18:00
< Shoukanjuu>
>_> That might just be me.
18:00
<@Attilla>
Hmm. True, but then you're drinking ice-water.
18:01
<@Attilla>
(Like a slushpuppy)
18:01
< Shoukanjuu>
Well, water can still be water without ice
18:01
<@Attilla>
Is that a tautology?
18:02
< Shoukanjuu>
I would bring the fact that my senior english class had trouble with prefixes to your attention, while I search for what the hell a tautology is
18:03
< Shoukanjuu>
Okay, now that that has been settled
18:03
< Shoukanjuu>
It depends on how you view "ice-water"
18:04
< Shoukanjuu>
Or "slushpuppy"
18:04
< Shoukanjuu>
You would except a slushpuppy to be...somewhat of slush
18:04
< Shoukanjuu>
And not...water
18:04
< Shoukanjuu>
in liquid form
18:05
< Kazriko>
Attilla, actually, drinking excess water can cause headaches. just ask the lady who died from the hold your wee for a wii contest in california.
18:05
<@Attilla>
Kazriko: I'm pretty sure that's a side-effect of your kidneys being just about to die :p
18:06
< Shoukanjuu>
Is it just me or does Hillary CLinton's laugh sound like Kefka's?
18:06
< Shoukanjuu>
I propose we keep her out of office to protect the statues of balance >___>
18:08
< Kazriko>
we're screwed this election. We have 3 horrible choices. :p
18:08
< Vornicus>
Kaz, you think we're screwed every election.
18:08
< Shoukanjuu>
With good reason
18:08
< Kazriko>
Well, we are, just we're more screwed than usual this time.
18:08
< Shoukanjuu>
Oh, apparently I'm not the only one
18:08
< Shoukanjuu>
Look at this
18:09
< Shoukanjuu>
Granted, it's a ytmnd...thing, but it made me chuckle. Xd;
18:10
< Shoukanjuu>
Whooping laugh. :3 XD
18:11 mode/#code [+oooooo AFKSkull Chalain jerith Kazriko Pi Reiver] by Vornicus
18:11 mode/#code [+oo NSGuest-6032 Vornicus] by Vornicus
18:11 * Kazriko wonders how many alarms that set off. heh
18:12 mode/#code [+o Shoukanjuu] by Vornicus
18:12
<@Vornicus>
One line.
18:14
<@Shoukanjuu>
>_>; Anyway, Vornicus, I thought to set out to learn C++, and I've been told to see java or C, or stay with python and never venture further to spare myself the agony
18:14
<@Vornicus>
Heh. Stay with Python for a while.
18:14
<@Vornicus>
The usual rate is one language a year.
18:14
<@Shoukanjuu>
Even for people who are crazy?
18:15
<@Vornicus>
Yes.
18:15
<@Kazriko>
I'd get the basics down solid before moving to C/C++
18:15
<@Shoukanjuu>
Works for me. *shrug*
18:15
<@Kazriko>
because there's a whole new set of basics to learn when you do low level programming.
18:15
<@Vornicus>
We haven't even /gotten/ to all the basics in Python
18:15
<@Shoukanjuu>
Hehe
18:16
<@Shoukanjuu>
It may have to wait a bit until I can start again, too
18:16
<@Shoukanjuu>
...As evidenced by my lack of correct grammar, I need sleep, but unfortunately, need to fix my sleeping habits...so must stay up for another 12 hours
18:17
<@Shoukanjuu>
Need to get back to waking up at 4pm and not midnight
18:17
<@Shoukanjuu>
It does me no good to wake up after people have gone to bed :/
18:18
<@Vornicus>
join the club.
18:19
<@Shoukanjuu>
See, I went on a 43 hour stretch, and slept until midnight
18:19
<@Vornicus>
oh, smooth
18:19
<@Shoukanjuu>
Which is bad, because my employer doesn't stay up until 8pm, yet alone midnight, and I can't work on what he needs done if...he can't tell me what he needs done x.X
18:20
<@Kazriko>
...
18:25
<@Shoukanjuu>
I work at night so people don't bother me about not being able to find the power button on the computer or about how I never call anymore >__>
19:14 You're now known as TheWatcher
19:33 NSGuest-6032 is now known as MyCatVerbs
20:16 JeffL [Kaline@Nightstar-509.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net] has joined #code
20:16 JeffL is now known as Jeff
21:51
<@gnolam>
Argh. My shell script-fu is weak.
21:51
<@AnnoDomini>
You need more training, young grasshopper.
22:58 You're now known as TheWatcher[afk]
23:04
<@EvilDarkLord>
Hmm, Project Euler has changed yet again. Shiny and it has its features back too.
23:35 You're now known as TheWatcher
--- Log closed Sun Apr 13 00:00:43 2008
code logs -> 2008 -> Sat, 12 Apr 2008< code.20080411.log - code.20080413.log >
 search of the:   for: