| --- Log opened Thu Jan 24 00:00:32 2008 |
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| 00:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: and? So you hand over to that script afterwards. |
| 00:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: ? |
| 00:12 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
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| 00:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | The intelligence windows uses to handle DLLs is "prepend '.' to $PATH and look there, taking the first DLL you find with the right filename" |
| 00:18 | <@MyCatVerbs> | That still beats what tends to happen with classpaths. |
| 00:18 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: how does handing over to a script help when your original objective was to be able to type ./foo.jar Foo Fooguments? |
| 00:19 | <@Vornicus> | ...Fooguments. |
| 00:19 | <@MyCatVerbs> | (For such was the problem that I was originally referring to.) |
| 00:20 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Vornicus: for some reason I don't feel like using the rest of the metasyntactic symbols right now. |
| 00:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | MyCatVerbs: "./foo.jar Foo Fooguments" turns into "/usr/local/bin/jarloader /path/to/foo.jar Foo Fooguments" |
| 00:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | That in turn calls "cd /path/to && /usr/local/bin/fix_the_goddamn_classpath foo.jar Foo Fooguments" or whatever. |
| 00:29 | | * Vornicus likes that word, "Fooguments" |
| 00:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | My point was that since binfmt_misc can call an arbitrary loader, there's nothing that says you have to pass control straight to java; you can pass it to your other, classpath-fixing script instead. |
| 00:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I'm not sure how windows DLL handling is at all different from classpath handling, except that the former uses PATH instead of CLASSPATH and the latter translates foo.bar.baz into foo/bar/baz.class rather than foo.bar.baz.dll. |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | The part here is that Windows tends to jam everything into two directories, . and WIndows/System. |
| 00:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 00:31 | <@McMartin> | While it is not uncommon for a Java app to rely on six different libraries, all stored in different directories, none of which are anywhere specified by any standard. |
| 00:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 00:32 | <@McMartin> | They've VERY SLOWLY been getting better about this -- collecting system jars in /usr/share/java, for instance -- but ever so slowly. |
| 00:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | I would have thought people would settle on a convention of, say, /{,usr/{,local}}/lib/java |
| 00:32 | <@McMartin> | Which is why these scripts often have 40 lines of configuration goo to figure out what the classpath needs to *be* |
| 00:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | And it tends to be different for each exec. |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | etc, etc etc DIAF plzkthxdie |
| 00:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | This isn't a problem with Java specifically, though. |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | Indeed not. |
| 00:35 | | * McMartin starts to thrash his Mac with SCIENCE, shifts machines |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | <3 screen |
| 00:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Indeed. |
| 00:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Screen and all its mutant children are delicious. |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | Except that it keeps interpreting the Mac's backspace as forward delete. |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | Making IRCing on it unpleasant. |
| 00:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think that's configurable somewhere, if not in screen than in your termulator, but not having used screen in ages I no longer remember where. |
| 00:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | There is some disagreement about whether backspace sends ^H, DEL, or some more funky sequence. |
| 00:45 | <@McMartin> | Indeed. |
| 00:45 | <@McMartin> | This is complicated by the fact that the MBP keyboard in fact labels it "Delete". |
| 00:46 | <@McMartin> | So fixing it on the screen may break Del on all other machines. |
| 00:46 | <@McMartin> | (And it's definitely screen, as sshing to the same amchine without screen operates correctly) |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | Man, something is hosing the lab network. |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | Hooray, my experiments are complete |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | Also, it looks rather like doing XML jackassery in Java won't be noticably uglier than doing it in Python was. |
| 03:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | I rather suspect that differences in ugliness between languages are swamped by the XML itself~ |
| 03:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although, to be fair, DOM XML libraries can be tolerable in languages that have the data structures for them. |
| 03:44 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, |
| 03:44 | <@McMartin> | I'm looking at DOM impls |
| 03:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | (Hint: Not C Or C++. Java might qualify.) |
| 03:45 | <@McMartin> | (It does, looking at org.w3c.dom.*) |
| 03:45 | <@McMartin> | (Actually IIRC XSLT was designed around Java to begin with) |
| 03:46 | <@McMartin> | (If nothing else, it's got methods, like getTextContents(), that python's xml.dom hierarchy sorely lacks) |
| 03:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | (getTextContents())? |
| 03:49 | <@McMartin> | (String concatenation of all text nodes amongst your children.) |
| 03:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | (Aah.) |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 24 12:35:04 2008 |
| --- Log opened Thu Jan 24 12:52:00 2008 |
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| 17:42 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
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| 18:45 | | * Vornicus examines Uplink data files. This one has "REDSHIRT" as the first data, and that's the only readable thing in the entire file. |
| 18:46 | <@Vornicus> | This one too. |
| 19:11 | <@gnolam> | It's XOR encrypted. |
| 19:11 | <@gnolam> | With, IIRC, "REDSHIRT". |
| 19:12 | <@Vornicus> | ...you're joking, right? |
| 19:12 | <@gnolam> | Nope. |
| 19:12 | <@Vornicus> | holy shit, dude |
| 19:13 | <@gnolam> | But note the 'IIRC'. But if the password is something else, it should be rather easy to find. |
| 19:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | ISTR Introversion saying they wanted it to be easy enough for people to figure out, but hard enough to be fun~ |
| 19:40 | <@Vornicus> | It's totally in the spirit of the game. |
| 19:40 | <@Vornicus> | :) |
| 19:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | The bonus disc has a lot of stuff like that, too. |
| 19:43 | <@Vornicus> | I wish I could use the bonus disc. |
| 19:44 | <@Vornicus> | Time to go to class. |
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| 21:45 | | * EvilDarkLord reads his database course, realizes there's a bunch of stuff in the SQL standard he never knew about. |
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| 22:58 | <@McMartin> | UQM in Cherokee |
| 22:58 | <@McMartin> | http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:KHv2b9lkHkoJ:chr.wikigadugi.org/wiki/Fictio nal_chemical_substances,_N-Z+Reisburg+Helices&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us |
| 23:42 | <@Vornicus> | So, class. |
| 23:42 | <@Vornicus> | My first class was literature & composition. |
| 23:42 | <@Vornicus> | She /actually mentioned Spider & Web by name/. |
| 23:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sw33t. |
| 23:44 | <@Vornicus> | I think I'll do okay in that one. |
| 23:45 | <@McMartin> | What was the context? |
| 23:45 | | * ToxicFrog eyes pspfiler, which implements move/rename as copy followed by unlink. |
| 23:46 | <@Vornicus> | She was talking about various literary techniques - first-person etc., unreliable narrator, flashbacks, and mentioned a few stories and video games that used them. |
| 23:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Did she assign playing any of them as homework?~ |
| 23:47 | <@Vornicus> | No. |
| 23:52 | <@Vornicus> | That would be pretty funny. |
| 23:53 | <@Vornicus> | EDL: SQL is /huge/. |
| 23:53 | <@Vornicus> | It's from the era of huge languages and tiny libraries. |
| --- Log closed Fri Jan 25 00:00:02 2008 |