| --- Log opened Tue Dec 18 00:00:13 2007 |
| 00:01 | | ilovefire is now known as ilf_shower |
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| 00:21 | | ilovefire is now known as ilf_food |
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| 00:56 | <@Vornicus> | God I love *nix |
| 01:46 | | Vornicus is now known as Darius |
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| 04:52 | | McM[thelegendaryjourneys] is now known as McM[SanDiego] |
| 05:13 | | Darius is now known as Vornicus |
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| 06:53 | <@Vornicus> | Heh. So, I am looking at the data for King's Bounty, specifically the maps. Archipelia doesn't actually have the most islands... |
| 07:13 | <@C_tiger> | If you lived in NYC, you could also love the Knicks. |
| 07:18 | <@Vornicus> | whut? |
| 07:18 | <@Vornicus> | oh |
| 07:19 | | * Vornicus dislikes basketball in general. |
| 07:23 | <@C_tiger> | Sorry to hear that. |
| 07:33 | <@Vornicus> | http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/12/macros_why_theyre_evil.php#more |
| 07:39 | <@C_tiger> | I'm trying to remember the last time I wrote a macro (outside #define constants.) |
| 07:39 | <@C_tiger> | (and #defines which worked with other constants.) |
| 07:39 | <@Vornicus> | I don't think I have, ever, outside of POV-Ray where it's the only tool you have. |
| 07:42 | <@C_tiger> | They are kinda nice for sectioning out huge blocks of code without using global variables... but that's again a constants thing. |
| 07:43 | <@Vornicus> | Pi haas on several occasions made the argument that you /never/ need macros or declares in C. |
| 07:43 | <@Vornicus> | Why the hell am I still up? |
| 07:44 | <@C_tiger> | I'm asking myself the same question... but my reason relates to the irish coffee I had about an hour ago. |
| 08:08 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
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| 09:57 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 10:52 | | NSGuest-3470 is now known as EvilDarkLord |
| 13:49 | <@TheWatcher> | ... What /THE FUCK/?! |
| 13:49 | <@TheWatcher> | # Obtain the session row from the databse |
| 13:49 | <@TheWatcher> | my $session = $sth -> fetchrow_hashref(); |
| 13:49 | <@TheWatcher> | if($session) { |
| 13:49 | <@TheWatcher> | ... some code that is never run... |
| 13:50 | <@TheWatcher> | } |
| 13:50 | <@TheWatcher> | |
| 13:50 | <@TheWatcher> | # This Should Not Happen (even if the user has cookies disabled the session id comes from check_session) |
| 13:50 | <@TheWatcher> | fail($self -> {'cgi'} -> remote_host(), "Sessionhandler::check_security: unable to obtain session data for session '$sessid'. This Should Not Happen. ($session)"); |
| 13:50 | <@TheWatcher> | dumps out 'Sessionhandler::check_security: unable to obtain session data for session '68cada1f49f24582203355d5c45e90bf'. This Should Not Happen. (HASH(0x86b80fc))' |
| 13:53 | | Iroel-amm [~jafroel@202.93.36.ns-3979] has joined #Code |
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| 15:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | "HASH(0x86b80fc) is false? |
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| 16:05 | <@gnolam> | Many callers MY ASS. |
| 16:05 | | * gnolam sets fire to the offices of Alltele. |
| 16:05 | | * gnolam pillages their villages and sells their children into slavery. |
| 16:06 | <@gnolam> | I'M GOING TO GO MEDIEVAL ON YOUR FRAUDULENT ASSES, YOU HEAR ME? |
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| 16:28 | <@gnolam> | GNGHGHGGNGGH |
| 17:03 | | Xiphias [Ameroth@82.68.15.ns-4527] has quit [Quit: I was never gone] |
| 17:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Die, Ubuntu, dieeeeeeee |
| 17:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:25 | <@gnolam> | What has it done to you now? |
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| 17:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | s/now/still/ |
| 17:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Doesn't install man pages, in particular development man pages, and actually finding the package name for them is enough of a chore I'm just SSHing home and getting them from there. |
| 17:43 | <@gnolam> | Ah. |
| 17:43 | | * gnolam gave up on Linux a while back. |
| 17:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Why? |
| 17:44 | <@gnolam> | I have only one computer, and it needs to be working at all times. |
| 17:44 | <@gnolam> | I have neither the time nor the motivation to see if I can actually whip a Linux distro into something resembling usable on this machine. |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unless you're using a broken distro like Gentoo or Ubuntu, or have exotic hardware, whipping is rarely necessary. |
| 17:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | But fair enough. |
| 17:45 | <@gnolam> | So unless /everything/ works out of the box, it's a no-go. |
| 17:46 | <@gnolam> | And... nothing works out of the box. |
| 17:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...what distro(s) did you try? |
| 17:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Because, with the exception of the wireless card on my old laptop and the microphone on my new one, "everyone works out of the box" is a pretty accurate description of my linux experience for the past five years or so. |
| 17:47 | <@gnolam> | There you go: "with the exception of...". |
| 17:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | I should note that these laptops are two of the eight machines I have installed linux on in that time. |
| 17:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Two laptops, two desktops, three headless servers, two modified cache-appliances and a PDA. |
| 17:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...8? 10. |
| 17:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | And the wireless card took about five minutes of effort to get working. |
| 17:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | So I'm not really sure what your point is other than "Linux doesn't support every single piece of hardware on earth", in which case, welcome to every OS ever. |
| 17:50 | | Forj [~Forj@203.211.122.ns-2621] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 17:51 | <@gnolam> | It boils down to two things: the previously mentioned "computer must be in a working state at all times" requirement (not negotiable) and the fact that I don't feel any _need_ to actually be running Linux. |
| 17:52 | <@gnolam> | So even if I had the spare time to find out if I could get everything working... why should I? |
| 17:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | See, again, "computer must be working at all times" doesn't strike me as a problem, unless the system you |
| 17:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | 're talking about here is either (a) some ultra-recent piece of gear that doesn't have drivers yet or (b) some laptop crammed with exotic hardware that has drivers for the specific version of windows it shipped with and nothing else. |
| 17:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | And clearly you were at least curious about it at one time, or you wouldn't have "given up" on it, you'd never have tried it in the first place. |
| 17:54 | <@gnolam> | And my curiosity has been satisfied. "Does it really work out of the box nowadays as people claim?" "Apparently not.". |
| 17:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Again, what distro? |
| 17:55 | <@gnolam> | Only tried (k)ubuntu, as it seems to be the recommended "user friendly" distro nowadays. |
| 17:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | And what system? |
| 17:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | My experience with ubuntu has led me to conclude that its claims of user-friendliness are a damn lie~ |
| 17:55 | <@gnolam> | This system. :P |
| 17:56 | <@gnolam> | 'bout 4-5 years old, nothing exotic. |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Stop being deliberately obtuse, please. |
| 17:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, so what went wrong? |
| 17:56 | <@gnolam> | Couldn't get a graphics mode > 1024x768. Couldn't get TV out at all. Sound was rather... wonky. |
| 17:57 | <@gnolam> | => curiosity satisfied, case closed. |
| 18:01 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 18:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | So what is it running now? |
| 18:08 | <@C_tiger> | Hmmm... as long as you're dispensing linux advice... |
| 18:11 | <@C_tiger> | I'm too attached to my windows machine (ok, three programs: photoshop, illustrator, iTunes) to swap to linux. However, I could install a linux distro on VMware. Should I? It'd be mostly for running little perl scripts and coding-related things. |
| 18:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | In that situation I tend to just install Cygwin, so I can talk directly to the host machine. |
| 18:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | And/or set up a headless Linux machine and use the windows one as an X terminal. |
| 18:12 | <@C_tiger> | Oooh, that's a good idea. |
| 18:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unless you have stuff that actually requires a complete Linux host, setting up in VMware is way too fiddly and inconvenient. |
| 18:13 | <@C_tiger> | Ok. I just have VMware already installed (for sage) hence I thought it'd be easier. |
| 18:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Eh, you can probably find a Linux VMware image somewhere ready to go. |
| 18:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | But then you still have all the inconvenience of not running straight on the host system, no floating windows, etc |
| 18:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although I suppose you could run an X server under windows and have the Linux guest talk to it over the loopback interface |
| 18:16 | <@C_tiger> | Right, I'll look into cygwin for now and when it's time to upgrade this box (not too far into future) maybe I'll retire this one into a linux box. |
| 18:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you do go with cygwin, I highly recommend installing -everything- if you have the space for it (around 1GB); it has a package manager but its dependency resolution doesn't always work, and it's full of fiddly little useful things. |
| 18:18 | <@C_tiger> | Ok, I will. |
| 18:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's basically a complete Linux development/runtime environment, only windows native. So that gets you bash, coreutils, rxvt, perl, python, X11, gcc, etc. |
| 18:18 | <@C_tiger> | Sweet. |
| 18:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Its biggest problem is that binaries compiled under it have cygwin1.dll (and possibly other cyg*.dll) as dependencies, which makes it suboptimal for compiling code for public release. |
| 18:20 | <@C_tiger> | Being that the most arduous tasks I turn to my programming experience for involve parsing, data processing and lookup, I think I'll survive. |
| 18:20 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 18:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | These days I've offloaded most of my development tasks onto Orias, a seperate Linux system, but I keep Cygwin around for systems administration (bash being my tiny god, etc) and so that I can use Durandal as an X terminal for Orias. |
| 18:22 | <@C_tiger> | Honestly, unless I go back to grad school (which is highly unlikely) I won't really have a need to code again. I mean I'm coding now just as way to pass time. |
| 18:23 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 18:26 | <@gnolam> | ToxicFrog: XP. |
| 18:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | gnolam: aah. See, my experience with XP is that it works out of the box on nothing, and only has a 75% success rate being made to work eventually. |
| 18:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and indeed for my current laptop required pre-install modification of the disc before an installation could even be attempted) |
| 18:30 | <@C_tiger> | TF, yes but XP comes preinstalled on most machines. |
| 18:31 | | * gnolam shrugs. |
| 18:31 | <@gnolam> | It does work right now, and I know how to get it working /perfectly/ on this machine from scratch within an hour. |
| 18:32 | <@C_tiger> | 99.9% of XP users buy the computer with XP installed and when it gets so bogged down and in need of a reinstall, they simply go out and buy a new computer. |
| 18:33 | <@gnolam> | And if it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
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| 18:37 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 18:38 | <@C_tiger> | What confuses me is why more computers in offices aren't linux. |
| 18:39 | <@C_tiger> | I mean seriously, most office drones don't need functionality outside firefox and office-suite. |
| 18:42 | < EvilDarkLord> | Inertia? |
| 18:43 | <@C_tiger> | Ok, good reason. |
| 18:46 | <@C_tiger> | Sometimes I wonder, though. When we did an upgrade in my old office, it cost over $50K for software alone. $50K which would have been MUCH better spent on not buying used and often broken lab equipment. |
| 18:53 | < EvilDarkLord> | Ouch. Was the software all office and windows licenses, or were there some nonreplaceable things that only work on windows? |
| 18:58 | <@C_tiger> | Windows, office, MS Server, Exchange. |
| 19:00 | < EvilDarkLord> | Just to be sure: There are free and good alternatives to all those, yes? |
| 19:00 | <@C_tiger> | I'm pretty sure. |
| 19:01 | <@C_tiger> | (There may have been other software costs in there... but the bulk was certainly sent to Redmond.) |
| 19:02 | <@C_tiger> | Exchange is the e-mail server thing that also manages calendars for everyone. |
| 19:02 | <@C_tiger> | I don't know if there's a linux equivalent (although there IS a google equivalent.) |
| 19:18 | | * MyCatVerbs wonders about writing something. |
| 19:18 | <@C_tiger> | prose, poetry or code? |
| 19:19 | <@C_tiger> | (I suppose, that should be prose, poetry, play or program to maintain alliteration.) |
| 19:19 | < MyCatVerbs> | Code. Calendaring should hardly be a difficult problem, right? ;) |
| 19:19 | < MyCatVerbs> | (Yes, I know how many companies have started out on exactly that premise and then immediately crashed and burned.) |
| 19:20 | < MyCatVerbs> | (I maintain, though, that 99% of them fell soley to feeping creaturism.) |
| 19:21 | <@C_tiger> | There are a couple models out there, I must admit that microsoft's solution is the easiest to use and best as far as not feeling like a collection of bells and whistles glued to a basic scheduler. |
| 19:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:22 | < EvilDarkLord> | Does it play with non-Windows machines? |
| 19:22 | <@C_tiger> | But yes, an open source version of one of those calendar things where you get to see everyone's open slots (and open slots for resources like rooms and equipment) so you can schedule meetings... that would awesome. |
| 19:23 | <@C_tiger> | It doesn't play with non-office things. |
| 19:23 | <@C_tiger> | It may play with non-windows, running MS outlook. |
| 19:26 | <@C_tiger> | I think you can send scheduled appointments to people outside the company but they just appear as a regular e-mail (unless they're running outlook, too, in which case it's parsed.) |
| 19:27 | < EvilDarkLord> | Surely you can script the email receiving system so it modifies those appropriately? =) |
| 19:28 | <@C_tiger> | But there's no calendar system for them to dock onto. |
| 19:28 | <@C_tiger> | If your calendar doesn't talk to your e-mail program, really there's nothing you can do. |
| 19:28 | < EvilDarkLord> | Did Evolution have a calendar built-in? |
| 19:30 | <@C_tiger> | (dunno, I've never had occasion to use a calendar outside the office. I just never really had that many appointments that I couldn't use post-its for.) |
| 19:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not to mention that for office use, it's easier to lock down linux (or, hell, just give everyone terminals running off a central cluster) if you're one of those places that's into B&D. |
| 19:58 | <@C_tiger> | Well, you COULD also be one of those places that ghosts the computers every night. |
| 20:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, but then you need to spend money on disks for all the machines, and you need to set up the cron job to do the ghost, and make sure the systems all wake up properly, and you probably need gigE to everyone to make sure the ghost actually finishes in a reasonable amount of time.. |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or you could just configure all the machines to act as thin clients, or alternately download and boot a system image off a central server when powered on. |
| 22:21 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 22:25 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:00 | <@Vornicus> | Arg. I really need to actually do some more /design/ before I know what the hell to /code/. |
| 23:02 | < Attilla> | Nonsense! Do agile programming. Do not plan, do not test. Only code. |
| 23:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | Do not run. |
| 23:07 | <@C_tiger> | just compile at the very end and ship off to the client? |
| 23:07 | <@C_tiger> | Also, do not save. |
| 23:10 | < Attilla> | Do not leave any information that links the program to you? |
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| 23:43 | | Vornotron is now known as Vornicus |
| --- Log closed Wed Dec 19 00:00:19 2007 |