| --- Log opened Sun Sep 23 00:00:28 2007 |
| 00:00 | | aoenu [aoenu@Nightstar-4849.dialup.optusnet.com.au] has joined #Code |
| 00:03 | | aoenu [aoenu@Nightstar-4849.dialup.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 00:11 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:15 | < MinceR> | j0 |
| 00:16 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-26933.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 00:16 | | mode/#code [+o Thaqui] by ChanServ |
| 00:16 | < Mischief> | Syntax Error: User is too stupid to compile this code. |
| 00:17 | < MinceR> | :> |
| 00:18 | <@AnnoDomini> | C:> |
| 00:18 | < MinceR> | C:\> |
| 00:18 | <@AnnoDomini> | Depressed Arab Smiley, eh? |
| 00:18 | | * ToxicFrog sets MinceR on fire |
| 00:18 | | * MinceR takes a form of fire |
| 00:18 | | * MinceR sets ToxicFrog on fire |
| 00:19 | < MinceR> | it was a command.com prompt :> |
| 00:19 | | * Mischief roasts a hotdog on MinceR |
| 00:19 | | * MinceR roasts Mischief on ToxicFrog |
| 00:19 | | * Mischief eats the hotdog happily, while roasting. |
| 00:19 | < Mischief> | Could someone pass the catsup? |
| 00:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | MinceR: yes, why did you think I deployed fire? |
| 00:19 | | * MinceR summons a ketchup elemental. |
| 00:20 | < MinceR> | ToxicFrog: so that i can roast Mischief on you? |
| 00:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, to get rid of the command.com. |
| 00:20 | | * Mischief is doused in ketchup. |
| 00:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | that stuff's nasty. |
| 00:20 | < Mischief> | Command.com is nifty |
| 00:20 | <@AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: Oh? |
| 00:21 | | * AnnoDomini mumbles about too many people with their nicks beginning with T on this channel. |
| 00:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | This must be some new use of the word "nifty" I am unfamiliar with. |
| 00:21 | | * MinceR kills command.com with fire. |
| 00:21 | | * Mischief knows her to work it inside and out... then through the side, diagonally, horizontally, and through the forth dimension. |
| 00:21 | < Mischief> | how* |
| 00:21 | | * AnnoDomini disbelieves the illusion. |
| 00:21 | < MinceR> | Mischief: that's because there isn't too much to it at all :> |
| 00:22 | < Mischief> | tracert, telnet, ping.. |
| 00:22 | < Mischief> | ftp.. |
| 00:22 | <@AnnoDomini> | Those aren't Command.com, IIRC. |
| 00:22 | < MinceR> | there are more nicks beginning with M than with T |
| 00:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | None of which are part of command.com, they're seperate programs. |
| 00:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I note that both the ping and the ftp that come with windows suck. |
| 00:23 | < Mischief> | I know, but they're executed in command.com |
| 00:23 | <@AnnoDomini> | And here I thought mighty hacker Mischief knew something about system variables. |
| 00:23 | < MinceR> | nowadays windows doesn't even come with command.com :> |
| 00:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or in bash, or csh, or ksh, or zsh, or in the case of telnet and ftp you can run them through the GUI... |
| 00:23 | < Mischief> | strangely, vista has a command prompt |
| 00:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | MinceR: no, it comes with cmd.exe, which sucks just as hard. |
| 00:23 | < MinceR> | indeed. |
| 00:23 | < Mischief> | My debian screensaver rocks. |
| 00:24 | < MinceR> | i installed cygwin on the last windows machine i had to work on. |
| 00:24 | < MinceR> | (because batch files are useless) |
| 00:24 | <@AnnoDomini> | I like apples. |
| 00:24 | <@AnnoDomini> | ((The fruit, not the computers.)) |
| 00:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Likewise. Cygwin, or at least msys, is a necessity if you plan on working in windows for any length of time. |
| 00:25 | < Mischief> | meh |
| 00:25 | < Mischief> | I don't like cygwin |
| 00:26 | < Mischief> | I just run a separate linux box. (Two of them) |
| 00:26 | < Mischief> | Windows is for media, and games. XP |
| 00:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Cygwin, among other things, lets you easily turn the windows machine into an X terminal. |
| 00:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which means you no longer have to decide between putting the good monitor on your gaming machine or your real machine. |
| 00:27 | < Mischief> | Yes, and that's very nifty -- if you plan on using your windows box for x-term work. |
| 00:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...are you clear on what "X terminal" means? |
| 00:28 | < Mischief> | Bash-like prompt, isn't it? |
| 00:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Er, no |
| 00:28 | < Mischief> | X-term |
| 00:28 | < Mischief> | It's a shell |
| 00:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | "xterm" is a terminal emulator for X11. |
| 00:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can run a shell inside it, typically bash, but it is not itself a shell. |
| 00:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | And this is not the same thing as an X terminal. |
| 00:28 | < Mischief> | Ah |
| 00:28 | < Mischief> | Still don't need it. |
| 00:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | An X terminal is a machine running an X server. |
| 00:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, you run the X clients on another system, and they display on the X terminal. |
| 00:29 | < MinceR> | i'd like to see and try a hardware x terminal. |
| 00:29 | < MinceR> | (i've read that they used to exist :) ) |
| 00:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Typically you use ssh -Y for this, as it sets up the necessary environment variables automatically and whatnot. |
| 00:29 | < Mischief> | Ahhh. |
| 00:29 | < Mischief> | That could be nifty in some situations, certainly. |
| 00:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, you run your programs on your *nix machines, and they display, and use the input hardware of, the windows machine. |
| 00:29 | < Mischief> | Isn't it easier just to Tunnel? |
| 00:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's what -Y does. |
| 00:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | It sets up tunneled X11 over the SSH link. |
| 00:30 | < Mischief> | I'm not an expert on Linux (I know very little) |
| 00:30 | < Mischief> | I know way more about networking. >_>; |
| 00:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can do it by hand using xhost and the DISPLAY variable, but tunneling has the advantage that it Just Works, even in the presence of firewalls and whatnot. |
| 00:30 | < Mischief> | Which is still ironic, because I have more linux machines than windows machines |
| 00:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Furthermore, if you add software like NX to the mix, you can run your programs on a linux machine, and move their displays between systems. |
| 00:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Indeed, I'm chatting through xchat running on Orias and displaying on Leela, and I move the display around between Leela, Durandal, the lab machines on campus, etc as necessary. |
| 00:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | (hell, Orias doesn't even have a monitor) |
| 00:31 | < MinceR> | nice |
| 00:31 | < Mischief> | What about those switchboxes... I forget thei rnames, but I use them at work constantly. |
| 00:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, yeah. That's why the ability to turn a system into an X terminal is useful. |
| 00:31 | < MinceR> | too bad nx is non-free |
| 00:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | KVM switches? |
| 00:32 | <@McMartin> | Unless they've gotten massively more awesome in the past few years, Cygwin's X server is horrifically awful. |
| 00:32 | < Mischief> | You press *+Num Lock to switch between boxes |
| 00:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Those requires physical proximity to all the systems involved. |
| 00:32 | < Mischief> | On the same Mouse/keyboard/monitor |
| 00:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, KVM switches. |
| 00:32 | < Mischief> | Very useful. |
| 00:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not really practical when the systems are spread across three cities. |
| 00:32 | < Vornicus> | or three continents. |
| 00:32 | < Mischief> | That's SSHD work |
| 00:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: for at least the past few years, Cygwin X11 has Just Worked for me under both 2k and XP |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | The last time I tried to use X forwarding on Cygwin it took 45 seconds to open an xterm and eight minutes to open emacs. |
| 00:33 | <@McMartin> | On a machine in the same room, hooked up via T1s. |
| 00:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mischief: uh, yeah, I kind of mentioned that earlier |
| 00:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | The advantage here is that the X server extends that to cover graphical apps, too, not just the command line |
| 00:34 | < Mischief> | Eh? |
| 00:34 | < Mischief> | Bitvise Tunnelier |
| 00:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Never heard of it. |
| 00:34 | < Mischief> | Supports Graphical, FTP, and SSH Console |
| 00:34 | < Mischief> | It's the ONLY thing I use |
| 00:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it differs from the -Y and -L options to ssh...how? |
| 00:35 | < MinceR> | Eight Minutes And Constantly Swapping ;) |
| 00:35 | < Mischief> | The fact that I don't know what those are, and I know what this is, maybe? |
| 00:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, -Y is "set things up so that any X11 programs run on the remote machine display on the local machine" |
| 00:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | And -L is "set up a tunneled connection over the SSH link" |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | MinceR: I knew someone would say that. |
| 00:36 | < MinceR> | :> |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | As it happens, this comes out to a five hundred times slowdown. |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | Emacs takes just under a second to open locally. |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | I'm willing to accept an order of magnitude slowdown when working remotely. |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | So, uh, I've been using VNC for these purposes, since the machines I'm connecting to are in the same room. |
| 00:37 | < Mischief> | TightVNC is easy to exploit |
| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | This is why you have the firewall only allow connections from one point in the local network. |
| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | And zero points in the broader one. |
| 00:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I routinely use nedit, system-config-*, and other stuff using plain cygwin X11 + ssh -Y, without trouble |
| 00:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | But only on the LAN; X11 over WAN links is asking for pain. |
| 00:38 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, the numbers I gave were for a LAN. |
| 00:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | (other stuff goes through NX, so that I can teleport it around and use it from outside) |
| 00:38 | <@McMartin> | They're also several years old, though. |
| 00:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. I do know that Cygwin X11 was unrelentingly terrible in 2002. |
| 00:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mischief: anyways. Returning to the original point. The big win for turning the windows machine into an X server is that, unlike a KVM switch, it doesn't require physical proximity of the systems or additional hardware, and unlike VNC and its relatives, it works per-program rather than per-desktop, and lets you seamlessly mix apps from all machines involved. |
| 00:41 | < Mischief> | That's useful in a remote situation. |
| 00:41 | < Mischief> | I'll definitely keep that in mind. |
| 00:41 | < Mischief> | Unfortunately, I won't be using it for a length of time. |
| 00:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Other less awesome but still useful stuff involves the presence of lots of useful tools - off the top of my head, I use ssh, rsync, git, netstat, and all of coreutils heavily - |
| 00:42 | | * Mischief has all three of his CRTs on one desk, it's a surprise it hasn't broke. |
| 00:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | As well as a very-nearly-complete POSIX development environment, with gcc and relatives, which is not that good for generating release software but is great for quick and dirty ports of other programs. |
| 00:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not to mention the fact that it gives you a bash shell. |
| 00:43 | < Mischief> | Ironically, I'm xtermed into a terminal 2 feet from me |
| 00:43 | < Mischief> | I just realized. |
| 00:43 | < Mischief> | Bitvise xterm - desertfox.kicks-ass.net |
| 00:43 | <@McMartin> | ... the only 'git' I'm aware of is a Glulx terp, which I don't think is what you mean |
| 00:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Those are less immediately useful when you have linux machines to offload onto, but at some point you usually end up wanting them locally. |
| 00:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: the version control system. |
| 00:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mischief: SSHed into, then. xterm is just the terminal emulator. |
| 00:44 | < Mischief> | I have visual access, I shut that off though |
| 00:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | And, yeah, I couldn't have them all together even if I wanted to, because no KVM and no space. |
| 00:45 | < Mischief> | I prefer just dragging over my other keyboard and using that. XP |
| 00:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, Orias has nine fans and ten drives and is always on. |
| 00:45 | < Mischief> | Orias? |
| 00:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not something I want under my desk, really! |
| 00:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | My main Linux machine. |
| 00:45 | < Mischief> | Geez. |
| 00:45 | < Mischief> | My Windows machine is that big. (A little smaller) |
| 00:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | A repurposed CA-6825. |
| 00:45 | < Mischief> | It covers two ATX cases. |
| 00:45 | < Mischief> | Towers. |
| 00:46 | < Mischief> | One case is modified to hold over 25 drives. |
| 00:46 | < Mischief> | The other holds all the makings of a regular workstation |
| 00:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | 8 hot-swappable SCA Ultra II SCSI drives, two power supplies, two ATA drives, two CPUs (with two fans each), 4GB of ECC memory, miscellaneous peripherals. |
| 00:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Most of which I have yet to write drivers for. |
| 00:48 | < Mischief> | Dual Core(One fan), 1024 MBs of RAM (DDR400), two fans on case, one IDEATA133 HDD, 2 CD drives... Three ...Blasted, what are they called. |
| 00:48 | < Mischief> | change format of data. |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | Converters. |
| 00:48 | < Mischief> | Right! |
| 00:48 | < Mischief> | My brain has a huge block of lead in it right now |
| 00:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | (ATA, PATA, or IDE - IDEATA is redundant :P) |
| 00:49 | < Mischief> | ((Ata133 IDE. I'm used to labelling it like that)) |
| 00:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | What are the converters for? |
| 00:50 | < Mischief> | Of which, turn IDE, SATA, and RAID drives into formats to hold over 25 drives and hook them into a normal ATX board. |
| 00:50 | < Mischief> | I obviously couldn't fit 25 drives on an IDE string. >_>; |
| 00:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. Drive controllers, then. |
| 00:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | And yeah, that sounds similar to Durandal...X2 dualcore, 2GB of memory, one ATA133 hard drive, one CD drive, one (dying, needs replacement) DVD drive, miscellaneous IO peripherals. |
| 00:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | All the drives are in Orias, there's no way I'd keep them in a windows machine. |
| 00:52 | < Mischief> | Windows-phobic |
| 00:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | And with good reason. |
| 00:52 | < Mischief> | The biggest problem I've ever had with windows is the stupid license key. |
| 00:52 | < Mischief> | Which I've hacked around anyways |
| 00:52 | < Mischief> | Cracked, rather |
| 00:52 | < Mischief> | I've used Windows for 7 years. |
| 00:53 | < MinceR> | poor soul ;) |
| 00:53 | < Mischief> | To you, I'm happy. |
| 00:53 | < Mischief> | I've got the best of both words. |
| 00:53 | < Mischief> | worlds... |
| 00:53 | < MinceR> | the best of both worlds is one of the worlds :> |
| 00:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | non-NT supports no decent filesystems. 2k has a very real chance of suddenly nuking any NTFS filesystem >84GB or so. XP I haven't had any problems with in that regard yet, but I figure it's only a matter of time. |
| 00:54 | < Mischief> | I find Linux doesn't have everything I need |
| 00:54 | < MinceR> | does that suddenly nuking apply to >2k too? |
| 00:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Furthermore, if I kept all my data on windows, I can't export it over NFS or SSH. |
| 00:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | And SMB is made of hate. |
| 00:54 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 00:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, and windows doesn't have software RAID6 support, or LVM. |
| 00:54 | < MinceR> | sometimes i need to boot windoze too but i really hate it when i do. |
| 00:54 | < Mischief> | I use Windows and Linux equally. |
| 00:54 | < Mischief> | Because I always have both running |
| 00:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, yeah, the thought of keeping my 750+GB of data on a windows machine is laughable. |
| 00:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | MinceR: like I said, I haven't had it happen on XP yet. |
| 00:55 | < Mischief> | 1 TB |
| 00:56 | < MinceR> | usually i can get away with booting it in qemu. |
| 00:56 | < Mischief> | My Linux machine has windows too. |
| 00:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I stopped dual booting years ago. Too much of a pain in the ass. |
| 00:56 | < Mischief> | So I have three windows machines (Two potential, but they're always on Linux anyways) |
| 00:56 | < Mischief> | What's hard about it? |
| 00:56 | < Mischief> | Or don't you use Debian? |
| 00:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I use Fedora, which unlike Debian is unlikely to write a grub.conf that renders my system unbootable. |
| 00:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | What makes it a pain is the constant context switching. |
| 00:57 | < Mischief> | Debian autoconfigs dual booting |
| 00:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | So does Fedora. |
| 00:57 | < MinceR> | context switching? |
| 00:57 | < Mischief> | Then I don't see the problem |
| 00:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | And Debian autoconfigs trying to boot a Gentoo kernel with a Debian / and an NTFS partition as /usr, which Doesn't Work. |
| 00:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or, in one memorable incident, after installing overtop of a Fedora partition, made the Fedore initrd (still left over in /boot) and kernel the default boot target. |
| 00:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | And the problem is that, say I'm working on a bunch of stuff in Linux. |
| 00:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Then I need windows for something. So I have to drop everything I'm doing and reboot into windows. |
| 00:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | And then either pick it back up there, or reboot again when I'm done whatever I was in windows for. |
| 00:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | I can't even use Hibernate, because that renders the filesystems inconsistent. |
| 00:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Waaaay easier to just have a central, always-on Linux machine that does the heavy lifting, and make sure I can get at it from any of my other systems easily. |
| 00:59 | < MinceR> | i see. |
| 01:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | This approach also means that I can use both at once. |
| 01:00 | < MinceR> | what do you do in windows? |
| 01:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Gaming, mostly. |
| 01:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Testing windows release of my software. |
| 01:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Running windows-specific software needed for the engineering labs. |
| 01:00 | < MinceR> | yes, gaming is the one thing virtualization isn't good enough for (yet) :) |
| 01:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | But for the latter two wine usually suffices, so it's mostly just the game. |
| 01:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | *gaming. |
| 01:01 | < MinceR> | speaking of wine... can wine and cedega be installed at the same time? |
| 01:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | No clue, never tried. |
| 01:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Probably. |
| 01:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although obviously you can only binfmt_misc to one of them :P |
| 01:03 | < MinceR> | i don't do that to either :) |
| 01:04 | < MinceR> | typing "wine whatever.exe" is perfectly acceptable to me :> |
| 01:04 | < MinceR> | (nowadays it's usually wine ~/.wine/drive_c/Games/Jazz2/Jazz2.exe :) ) |
| 01:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fedora's package of wine automatically sets up binfmt_misc at the same time, so |
| 01:04 | < Mischief> | I failed to set up Glmatrix |
| 01:04 | < Mischief> | on xscreensaver |
| 01:04 | < Mischief> | I can't seem to find the files for it at all. |
| 01:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and I ended up aliasing it so that "/path/to/foo.exe" -> "cd /path/to && wine foo.exe") |
| 01:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | (as otherwise, $PWD != $(dirname $0), which causes a lot of windows programs to be very, very unhappy) |
| 01:12 | | GeekSoldier|Bed [~Rob@Nightstar-3262.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 01:46 | < MinceR> | gn |
| 03:18 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@194.72.70.ns-11849] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 04:49 | <@McMartin> | Hmm. I should learn to use distutils. |
| 04:49 | < Vornicus> | you too, ah? |
| 04:49 | <@McMartin> | It would be nice for Ophis to have an .exe for the Win32'd. |
| 04:58 | | * McMartin should also produce, like, actual test cases. |
| 05:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | distutils? |
| 05:23 | <@McMartin> | Python has a set of libraries that are, basically, installer generators |
| 05:24 | <@McMartin> | Which would be nice for Ophis, since it exists as seven or eight .py files that need to be placed in a PYTHONPATH appropriately by scripts, etc. etc. etc. |
| 05:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 05:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | I was hoping it would be a general cross-compiler harness or something~ |
| 05:24 | <@McMartin> | And distutils shoves everything into the appropriate bits of /usr/local, and has extensions that precompile-and-embed it all into an .exe file. |
| 05:44 | < Mischief> | Argh. |
| 05:44 | < Mischief> | apt-get broken |
| 06:00 | | McMartin [~mcmartin@Nightstar-904.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] |
| 06:06 | | McMartin [~mcmartin@Nightstar-904.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 06:06 | | mode/#code [+o McMartin] by ChanServ |
| 06:06 | | * McMartin eyes the I7 changelog |
| 06:07 | <@McMartin> | ""Flathead News Network" added to demonstrate communicating with a simple Unix script running in the background, in order to provide live news headlines (drawn from RSS feeds) inside a story file." |
| 06:07 | <@McMartin> | I seem to have missed that the first time around |
| 06:07 | < Vornicus> | /madness with sauce/ |
| 06:07 | < Mischief> | I just beheaded my server! Bwhahah! |
| 06:08 | < Mischief> | deheaded too. Infact, I'm just slaughtering the hardrive. |
| 06:08 | < Mischief> | Doesn't need a monitor for installation. Pft. >_>; |
| 06:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | That is the one thing I liked about Debian: the ability to conduct an install over SSH. |
| 06:20 | | Mischief [~Genesis@Nightstar-7565.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
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| 06:53 | | GeekSoldier|Bed is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 06:56 | | Mischief [~Genesis@Nightstar-7565.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 06:57 | < Mischief> | Hmm.. I wonder why there isn't a system process that would allow you to use idle resources over a 100mbit LAN connection. (Give the resources to another computer) |
| 06:57 | < Mischief> | Would it just hit the chipset limits? |
| 06:58 | <@McMartin> | Distributed computing is Hard. |
| 06:58 | <@jerith> | Very Hard. |
| 06:58 | < Mischief> | Which is why there's no commercial application for it? |
| 06:59 | < Mischief> | I think Vista is making a new feature that supports it. |
| 06:59 | <@McMartin> | Oh, lots of commercial applications for it |
| 07:00 | <@McMartin> | It's just Really Hard and turning non-distributed ones into distributed ones has been an active research area for over two decades and it's not even remotely solved |
| 07:00 | < Mischief> | I see. |
| 07:00 | < Mischief> | I was thinking of setting up a Cat5e cable and NIC for 1gbit bandwidth between a new machine and forcing the resources over |
| 07:01 | <@McMartin> | (And it's one of the things my research adviser was famous for in the middle of that range; I'm working on a different area) |
| 07:01 | <@McMartin> | Well, if you've got human control, you can just SSH in and demand computation |
| 07:01 | < Mischief> | explain! |
| 07:02 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-3262.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 07:02 | <@McMartin> | Well, say you've got some process you want to run, because your slow machine needs its answers |
| 07:02 | <@McMartin> | So you have the slow machine ssh to the fast machine, run it there, and then copy the results back over your l33t fast cable. |
| 07:03 | < Mischief> | But there's no way to just isolate a part of the CPU (Like on a dual core, isolate core o) and donate all resources over cat5e cable? |
| 07:03 | <@McMartin> | Since the most important resources are things like memory, no. |
| 07:03 | <@McMartin> | And the instruction cache |
| 07:03 | < Mischief> | I was just using it as an example. |
| 07:03 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 07:03 | < Mischief> | Hypothetical, even. |
| 07:04 | <@McMartin> | Well, there are totally non-hypothetical things where you can do that easily, usually because the answers and questions go in large chunks |
| 07:04 | <@McMartin> | Like, say, Folding@Home. |
| 07:04 | <@jerith> | Mischief: If your app is already written in a manner conducive to concurrency, there are ways. |
| 07:04 | <@McMartin> | But basically if it's not multithreaded, you're hosed. |
| 07:05 | < Mischief> | heh |
| 07:05 | <@jerith> | There's no way to do it in general. |
| 07:05 | <@jerith> | McMartin: Nitpick: multiprocess. |
| 07:05 | <@jerith> | You *really* don't want to try shared-memory over a network. |
| 07:05 | < Mischief> | Virtual device drivers, and spoofing an instance ID over a local area network that connects to the host (parasite). |
| 07:05 | <@McMartin> | You don't, but you can. |
| 07:06 | <@McMartin> | NUMA, etc. |
| 07:06 | <@McMartin> | Depends on how processy your threads are. |
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| 07:06 | < Mischief> | Flash Memory is ideal for RAM |
| 07:06 | < Mischief> | USB 2.0 has a .1 access time. |
| 07:06 | <@jerith> | Mischief: Flash is horribly slow to write to. |
| 07:07 | <@jerith> | And no faster to read from than RAM. |
| 07:07 | <@McMartin> | It also tends to break after you write it a few million times. |
| 07:07 | < Mischief> | it would denote a possible 12-29% increase in performance. |
| 07:07 | <@McMartin> | You don't want to mount /var on a flashdrive. |
| 07:07 | < Mischief> | No, take Vista's ready boost for example |
| 07:07 | <@jerith> | It's a great replacement for a hard drive. |
| 07:07 | < Mischief> | IF you've had the priviledge to play with it |
| 07:08 | <@jerith> | Assuming write latency isn't an issue. |
| 07:08 | <@McMartin> | Mounting /var there is still a bad idea. If you're building a complete OS on the drive, mount /var in a RAMdisk. |
| 07:08 | < Mischief> | IT's why there's such a small increase in performance. |
| 07:08 | < Mischief> | I'm not talking about linux |
| 07:08 | < Mischief> | This is all hypothetically in windows. |
| 07:09 | <@McMartin> | Except for the specifics of /var, everything we've discussed is OS independent. |
| 07:09 | < Mischief> | I know, but the variable is annoying me. |
| 07:09 | <@McMartin> | "Ready Boost" is marketing speak so without a much better description of what it is it's not really possible to comment sensibly. |
| 07:09 | < Mischief> | I've used it. |
| 07:09 | < Mischief> | And disassembled part of it. |
| 07:09 | <@McMartin> | So, what is it? |
| 07:10 | < Mischief> | It's a program that uses RAM's fast access time to use as a sort of "pagefile" |
| 07:10 | <@McMartin> | So, it's a block cache? |
| 07:10 | <@jerith> | "pagefile"? |
| 07:10 | < Mischief> | I've noticed a 12-29% increase in performance with a 2 GB Sandisk USB |
| 07:10 | < GeekSoldier> | swapfile |
| 07:11 | <@jerith> | What would be the point of putting swap in RAM? |
| 07:11 | <@jerith> | I'm assuming a disk cache of some kind. |
| 07:11 | <@McMartin> | Or possibly using a Flash Drive to serve as a block cache for the (larger, slower) magnetic disc. |
| 07:11 | < Mischief> | It is. |
| 07:12 | < Mischief> | a pagefile a process that's active, but not loaded into direct RAM |
| 07:12 | < Mischief> | Like storing of variables an data |
| 07:12 | < Mischief> | In windows it's called "Virtual Memory" |
| 07:12 | < Mischief> | VRAM |
| 07:12 | <@McMartin> | Then it's not a block cache. |
| 07:12 | < Mischief> | The magnetic disk drives (HDDs) have a slower access time than USB 2.0 |
| 07:13 | <@McMartin> | But they're faster than 100MBps Ethernet, to answer your initial question. |
| 07:13 | < Mischief> | Which make them ideal as page files. |
| 07:13 | <@jerith> | One of us is confused, Mischief. |
| 07:13 | <@jerith> | You want to keep as much in RAM as you can, because it's fast. |
| 07:13 | <@McMartin> | jerith: If I understand him correctly, he's saying that the USB disk is being used as swap instead of the HDD. |
| 07:13 | < Mischief> | Yes, but that's not how it works in Windows, jerith |
| 07:13 | <@jerith> | /That/ makes sense. |
| 07:14 | <@jerith> | Mischief: I can't comment on how Windows does it, because I don't really know. |
| 07:14 | < Mischief> | Virtual (or logical) memory is a concept that, when implemented by a computer and its operating system, allows programmers to use a very large range of memory or storage addresses for stored data. The computing system maps the programmer's virtual addresses to real hardware storage addresses. Usually, the programmer is freed from having to be concerned about the availability of data storage. |
| 07:14 | <@McMartin> | The basic principles of Virtual Memory haven't changed since the PDP-1, Mischief. |
| 07:15 | < Mischief> | Or. |
| 07:15 | < Mischief> | This is system memory that is simulated by the hard drive. When all the RAM is being used (for example if there are many programs open at the same time) the computer will swap data to the hard drive and back to give the impression that there is slightly more memory. |
| 07:15 | <@McMartin> | Yes |
| 07:15 | <@McMartin> | The former is VM. |
| 07:15 | <@McMartin> | The latter is swap. |
| 07:15 | <@McMartin> | It was, IIRC, the Macintosh that gave us the terminology confusion. |
| 07:15 | <@jerith> | Nothing there is new. |
| 07:15 | <@McMartin> | I take it that when you say "keeping RAM on the USB disk" you're using the second definition. |
| 07:15 | < Mischief> | The latter is what the usb drive is being used for |
| 07:15 | <@McMartin> | And if that is the case, than what it's it's doing is keeping swap on a USB drive instead of the HDD. |
| 07:16 | < Mischief> | Exactly. |
| 07:16 | <@McMartin> | Thus freeing up the HDD for use by whatever processes are actually running. |
| 07:16 | <@jerith> | Which is going to demolish your write-cycels. |
| 07:16 | <@jerith> | *cycles |
| 07:16 | < Mischief> | I noticed an increase in performance, Jerith |
| 07:16 | <@jerith> | Mischief: Oh, I'm sure you would. |
| 07:16 | <@McMartin> | By "demolish", Mischief, he refers to the fact that Flash RAM degrades when written. |
| 07:17 | < Mischief> | Oh! |
| 07:17 | < Mischief> | Then, yes. |
| 07:17 | <@jerith> | You could get a performance boost just from putting the swap on a second hard drive on another controller channel. |
| 07:18 | <@McMartin> | Well |
| 07:18 | <@jerith> | I used to do this, back when a 200mb drive was acceptable swap space. |
| 07:18 | <@McMartin> | You could use USB 2.0 to mount the second hard drive and there's your other channel |
| 07:18 | < Mischief> | Not fast enough |
| 07:18 | < Mischief> | I tried that, and apparently the device didn't have a fast enough access time to be used by Readyboost |
| 07:18 | <@jerith> | Mischief: flash is faster to read than hd, but slower to write. |
| 07:19 | < Mischief> | I'm aware |
| 07:19 | < Mischief> | I'm stating as a fact, the program won't allow it |
| 07:19 | <@jerith> | Unless they're playing tricks with memory block sizes matching multiples of flash block sizes, but you don't get that information over a block device API, iirc. |
| 07:20 | <@McMartin> | Yes, but that doesn't actually prove anything other than that their profile won't let your run the test at all. |
| 07:20 | <@jerith> | Mischief: I'm guessing it's not just swap, then. |
| 07:20 | <@jerith> | Because you could put your swap wherever you like back in win95. |
| 07:21 | < Mischief> | As i've said, I only know what I learned from part of the code (VERY little of what I could find and decrypt), and what's on the net |
| 07:21 | < Mischief> | You can in XP and vista too |
| 07:21 | | * jerith waits for MS' virtual treeware to load. |
| 07:23 | < Mischief> | I'm going to bed now. |
| 07:23 | < Mischief> | I need to get up in 9 hours for D20 game |
| 07:23 | <@jerith> | http://blogs.msdn.com/tomarcher/archive/2006/06/02/615199.aspx |
| 07:23 | <@jerith> | So it's a cache for the swapfile. |
| 07:24 | <@jerith> | Because flash is awesome at random reads. |
| 07:24 | <@jerith> | That makes sense. |
| 07:25 | <@McMartin> | Aha, better still |
| 07:25 | <@jerith> | Although I'm not sure how much of a performance boost you can really get once you compress and encrypt everything. |
| 07:25 | <@McMartin> | Also means you're writing it less, I think. |
| 07:27 | <@jerith> | Q: Can you use an mp3 player to speed up your system? |
| 07:27 | <@jerith> | A: Not currently. MP3 players use the 'plays for sure' interfaces to expose themselves to Windows. We require that the device appear as a disk volume. These aren't currently compatible. |
| 07:27 | <@jerith> | LIES! |
| 07:27 | <@jerith> | Or at least, ungrounded assumptions about the flavour of mp3 player you use. |
| 07:28 | <@jerith> | Seems like a lot of effort for what is essentially a workaround performance hack for not having enough RAM. |
| 07:29 | <@McMartin> | 4 Gigs is only barely enough to run Notepad on Vista~ |
| 07:29 | <@jerith> | Point. |
| 07:29 | <@jerith> | I have trouble filling 2 gigs on any of my Linux boxen. |
| 07:29 | <@jerith> | Well, excluding disk cache. |
| 07:30 | <@jerith> | I can also tell MySQL to allocate a lot more, but I have no idea if it's actually using it. |
| 07:32 | <@McMartin> | Oh, I've burned out 2 gigs quite frequently |
| 07:32 | <@McMartin> | Mainly during Massive Program Analysis Time. |
| 07:33 | <@jerith> | Yeah, but that's not the common case. |
| 07:34 | <@McMartin> | True enough |
| 07:34 | | * McMartin yawns |
| 07:34 | <@McMartin> | OK, I think I'm going to bed early tonight. |
| 07:34 | <@McMartin> | o/ |
| 07:35 | <@jerith> | 'Night McMartin. |
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| --- Log closed Sun Sep 23 15:22:11 2007 |
| --- Log opened Sun Sep 23 15:22:14 2007 |
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| 17:45 | < Mischief> | I have another question! This one should be easy. |
| 17:46 | <@jerith> | Ask, don't wait for permission. :-) |
| 17:46 | < Mischief> | chown -R $GROUP $INSTANCE, chmod -R ug+rwX $INSTANCE, chmod -R o-rwx $INSTANCE |
| 17:46 | < Mischief> | this would allow only $GROUP to write to $INSTANCE, right? |
| 17:50 | <@jerith> | You want chgroup there, not chown |
| 17:51 | <@jerith> | But otherwise, yes. That looks good. |
| 17:51 | <@jerith> | (I had to look up X as opposed to x, though.) |
| 17:51 | < Mischief> | Ack, is it a problem I used chown? >_< |
| 17:51 | < Mischief> | The syntax went through. |
| 17:51 | <@jerith> | It would have changed the owner, not the group. |
| 17:52 | < Mischief> | chgroup doesn't exist |
| 17:52 | <@jerith> | Unless the group started with a colon. |
| 17:52 | <@jerith> | Umm, chgrp |
| 17:52 | <@jerith> | Sorry. |
| 17:52 | < Mischief> | missing operand. Agh. >_< |
| 17:53 | <@jerith> | You probably want to do a chown -R $USER:$GROUP |
| 17:53 | <@jerith> | Replacing $USER appropriately, of course. |
| 17:53 | < Mischief> | well I'm doing this for an FTP file |
| 17:53 | < Mischief> | so I just wanted to give a group read and write access, and no one else. |
| 17:54 | <@jerith> | Look at the ownership as it currently stands. |
| 17:54 | < Mischief> | What's the command of that? |
| 17:54 | <@jerith> | Are the user and group correct? |
| 17:54 | <@jerith> | ls -l |
| 17:54 | | * Mischief sorry, still learning! >_< |
| 17:54 | <@jerith> | drwxr-xr-x 13 jerith jerith 4096 Sep 22 17:26 thunderbird |
| 17:55 | < Mischief> | It says "Total 0" |
| 17:55 | <@jerith> | The first bit is permissions, I forget wht the number means, the next two are user and group, then size, timestamp, filename. |
| 17:55 | <@jerith> | That means the directory is empty. |
| 17:56 | <@jerith> | ls -ld |
| 17:56 | <@jerith> | The -d tells it to look at the directory itself rather than its contents. |
| 17:56 | < Mischief> | Here we are. |
| 17:56 | < Mischief> | drwxrwx000 2 ftp nogroup |
| 17:57 | <@jerith> | The -l is for "long", which gives you all the metadata instead of just the filename. |
| 17:57 | <@jerith> | Are those the user and group you want? |
| 17:57 | < Mischief> | no, it should be allow all uses with ftp as group |
| 17:58 | <@jerith> | You should be safe with ftp as the owner, too. |
| 17:58 | <@jerith> | chgrop -R ftp:ftp <dirname> |
| 17:58 | < Mischief> | ftp is a user (the same as www-data)) |
| 17:59 | < Mischief> | Okay, that worked |
| 17:59 | < Mischief> | Thanks. ^^ |
| 17:59 | <@jerith> | Always a pleasure. |
| 17:59 | <@jerith> | You have no idea how satisfying it is to help someone with clue. |
| 18:00 | < Mischief> | Clue is an awesome game. |
| 18:00 | <@jerith> | I sit in a similar channel on another network where most of the denizens are idiots. |
| 18:00 | < Mischief> | Heh |
| 18:00 | <@jerith> | Just this afternoon I took half an hour to explain to someone that php is not a good language to write an ircbot in. |
| 18:01 | < Mischief> | O.o; |
| 18:01 | <@jerith> | And an hour later he was back trying to get it working. ;_; |
| 18:01 | < Mischief> | O.O; |
| 18:01 | <@jerith> | (It was someone else's ircbot, but it was still fairly early in development.) |
| 18:01 | < Mischief> | Tell him to try HTML. XP |
| 18:02 | <@jerith> | I told him to look at supybot instead, where he could have a stable base and duplicate their functionality in a plugin in an hour or so. |
| 18:02 | < Mischief> | He wanted to use php though. |
| 18:03 | <@jerith> | He was dead set on php. |
| 18:03 | < Mischief> | Excuse me. I need to unplug my router and give it a kick in the arse. |
| 18:03 | <@jerith> | Even though he didn't know the language. |
| 18:03 | <@jerith> | Enjoy! |
| 18:03 | < Mischief> | It just isolated me. |
| 18:03 | <@jerith> | Anyways, enough griping. |
| 18:03 | | * Mischief will be back soon. :P |
| 18:03 | | * jerith goes back to trying to figure out what this Python code is doing. |
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| 18:04 | | Eva_Lowell is now known as Genesis |
| 18:04 | < Genesis> | Lovely. Hi Me. |
| 18:05 | <@jerith> | Hello Genesis. |
| 18:05 | | * Genesis is Mischief returned to dead. :P |
| 18:06 | < Genesis> | I need to ifconfig my server again, because it's slipping past by DHCP again. |
| 18:06 | <@jerith> | I'm not sure I follw that... |
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| 18:07 | | Genesis is now known as Mischief |
| 18:07 | < Mischief> | My router's DHCP Tables don't have linux registered under 103 |
| 18:07 | < Mischief> | Now they do. |
| 18:08 | <@AnnoDomini> | !xpreq 10 |
| 18:08 | <+DiceBot> | XP required for level 10: 45000. |
| 18:08 | <@jerith> | Hey AD/. |
| 18:08 | <@AnnoDomini> | Hello, jerith. |
| 18:47 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:56 | < Mischief> | Okay, I did something stupid. :P Now vsftpd isn't accepting anonymous logins |
| 18:57 | < Mischief> | And if you log in (or try to from ftp) it says 500: child died |
| 18:57 | < Mischief> | My server is gothic. |
| 18:59 | <@jerith> | I haven't set up an ftpd in half a decade and I did zero configuration on that. |
| 18:59 | < Mischief> | I think it has to do with those folder permissions I set a while ago |
| 19:00 | < Mischief> | BAH |
| 19:00 | < Mischief> | It keeps asking for login info |
| 19:04 | < Mischief> | for chmod -R o-rwx $INSTANCE - what would be the command to overide this that says "everyone else can read but not write" |
| 19:17 | <@jerith> | Mischief: man chmod :-) |
| 19:18 | <@jerith> | You can mix and match the rwx. |
| 19:18 | <@jerith> | That's three permissions there. |
| 19:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | chmod -R a+r-w $INSTANCE, as I recall |
| 19:20 | < Mischief> | Thank you |
| 19:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Replace a with o if you meant "others" rather than "everyone" |
| 19:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, right, "everyone else", so you definitely want o |
| 19:22 | < Mischief> | Ah-hah |
| 19:22 | < Mischief> | Fixed. Thank you, Toxic and Jerith |
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| 19:39 | < Mischief> | http://desertfox.kicks-ass.net/ |
| 19:39 | < Mischief> | Not supposed to do that, is it |
| 19:40 | <@jerith> | Did you break your vhost? |
| 19:41 | < Mischief> | The dist broke yesterday |
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| 20:28 | < Mischief> | Jerith, what did we resolve the issue of /moin.cgi not being found as? |
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| 20:29 | <@jerith> | We added a ScriptAlias line for it. |
| 20:30 | < Mischief> | Oh, right. |
| 20:30 | <@jerith> | Actually, for /FoxyWiki pointing to it. |
| 20:30 | < Mischief> | Do you remember the line, or still have it? |
| 20:32 | <@jerith> | I think it was ScriptAlias /FoxyWiki /path/to/moin.cgi |
| 20:32 | < Mischief> | Okay |
| 20:33 | <@jerith> | You also want a redirect line, but I don't remember that. |
| 20:37 | < Mischief> | hm. |
| 20:39 | < MinceR> | how are you gentlemen !! |
| 20:39 | < Mischief> | perplexed! |
| 20:39 | < Mischief> | apt-get remove doesn't UNINSTALL anything. |
| 20:39 | < Mischief> | As far as I see, it just removes the executables from init.d |
| 20:40 | <@jerith> | Mischief: It does, but it leavs configs. |
| 20:40 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 20:40 | <@jerith> | You can add --purge to get rid of those too. |
| 20:40 | < Mischief> | Then how come if I apt-get remove apache, I can still cd /etc/apache? |
| 20:40 | <@jerith> | Hey Vorn. |
| 20:41 | <@jerith> | Because /etc/apache is full of config files. |
| 20:41 | <@jerith> | If you apt-get remove --purge apache they will all go. |
| 20:41 | <@AnnoDomini> | Vornicus: Would you mind restoring the wiki for an hour or two so I can download the character sheets for games I'm in? |
| 20:41 | < Mischief> | Nifty, thanks. |
| 20:41 | < MinceR> | "we will all go together when we go..." |
| 20:41 | < Vornicus> | restoring the wiki? what, it's gone again? |
| 20:42 | < Vornicus> | arg, fucking thing! |
| 20:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | Looks like it. |
| 20:42 | < Vornicus> | ...no, it's there. |
| 20:42 | < Mischief> | It's not there. |
| 20:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | It's not loading for me. |
| 20:43 | < Vornicus> | this is very strange. |
| 20:43 | <@jerith> | [jerith@jerith-lap1 ~]$ host vorn.dyndns.org |
| 20:43 | <@jerith> | vorn.dyndns.org has address 64.252.9.13 |
| 20:43 | <@jerith> | Is DNS right? |
| 20:43 | <@jerith> | I'm getting timeouts. |
| 20:44 | < Vornicus> | DNS is correct. |
| 20:44 | <@jerith> | Well, it hasn't timed out /yet/, but it's still waiting. |
| 20:44 | < Attilla> | "Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 64.252.9.13." |
| 20:44 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-2472.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 20:44 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 20:45 | < Vornicus> | DMZ is also correct. |
| 20:45 | < Mischief> | You DMZed your server? |
| 20:45 | <@jerith> | [jerith@jerith-lap1 ~]$ sudo tcptraceroute -T -p 80 vorn.dyndns.org |
| 20:45 | <@jerith> | traceroute to vorn.dyndns.org (64.252.9.13), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 kaitain.home.jerith.za.net (192.168.42.1) 0.696 ms 0.682 ms 0.688 ms 2 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1) 1.916 ms 2.350 ms 3.342 ms 3 adsl-64-252-9-13.adsl.snet.net (64.252.9.13) 102.662 ms 496.272 ms 496.238 ms |
| 20:45 | < Vornicus> | Mischief: yes, seeing as I run everything on it. |
| 20:45 | | * Mischief shrugs. |
| 20:45 | < Vornicus> | long ping time there. |
| 20:46 | < Vornicus> | Try a regular traceroute. |
| 20:47 | <@jerith> | 11 bb1-p3-0.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (151.164.92.163) 357.896 ms 339.878 ms 339.756 ms |
| 20:47 | <@jerith> | 12 dist1-10g1-2.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (151.164.92.146) 358.974 ms 368.607 ms * |
| 20:48 | <@jerith> | 13 se1-g5-1.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (66.159.184.206) 339.009 ms 338.771 ms 337.855 ms |
| 20:48 | <@jerith> | 14 * * * |
| 20:48 | <@jerith> | 15 * * * |
| 20:48 | < Mischief> | 13 Timed out |
| 20:48 | < Mischief> | 14 Timed Out |
| 20:48 | < Vornicus> | Looks like a routing issue at my isp. |
| 20:49 | | * Mischief is one ping closer to you, Vorn. |
| 20:49 | < Mischief> | 12 is se1-g9 |
| 20:49 | < Vornicus> | this is the way out to jerith.za.net: |
| 20:49 | < Mischief> | hops 13-20 have timed out so far. |
| 20:49 | < Vornicus> | 1 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 1.327 ms 0.626 ms 0.515 ms |
| 20:49 | < Vornicus> | 2 adsl-64-252-11-254.adsl.snet.net (64.252.11.254) 11.460 ms 10.401 ms 11.305 ms |
| 20:49 | < Vornicus> | 3 dist1-vlan60.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (66.159.184.226) 30.576 ms 11.420 ms 10.724 ms |
| 20:49 | < Vornicus> | 4 bb1-10g2-0.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (151.164.92.147) 11.637 ms 11.420 ms 11.006 ms |
| 20:49 | < Vornicus> | 5 bb1-p8-0.nycmny.sbcglobal.net (151.164.92.162) 15.690 ms 15.563 ms 15.059 ms |
| 20:50 | < Vornicus> | |
| 20:50 | < Vornicus> | It doesn't look like it knows how to find me. |
| 20:50 | <@jerith> | jerith.za.net is on a different continent from me. |
| 20:50 | < Vornicus> | heh |
| 20:51 | < Mischief> | ((How do I restore the configure files after I've purged them? :P)) |
| 20:51 | < Vornicus> | ((you don't)) |
| 20:51 | < Vornicus> | ((that's what purge does)) |
| 20:51 | < MinceR> | ((you restore them from backup, obviously.)) |
| 20:52 | < Mischief> | ((No backup.)) |
| 20:52 | < Vornicus> | (that too) |
| 20:52 | <@jerith> | ((And then you stop talking in doubled parentheses.)) |
| 20:52 | <@jerith> | WARNING! Mad lisper on the loose! |
| 20:53 | < Mischief> | Heh. |
| 20:53 | < MinceR> | (((let's start talking in tripled parens then.))) |
| 20:53 | < MinceR> | ((((in stereo where available)))) |
| 20:53 | < Mischief> | apt-get build-dep apache2 does nothing! |
| 20:53 | < Mischief> | Except fix my compiler! But that' |
| 20:53 | < Mischief> | ...Damned enter key |
| 20:59 | < Mischief> | Okay, I give up. I've tried --reinstalling apache2.2-commons and purging the entire depency list and reinstalling |
| 20:59 | < Mischief> | I call uncle. |
| 21:04 | | * Vornicus pokes at his isp. |
| 21:04 | < Vornicus> | ...no, I don't know what's wrong. |
| 21:05 | < Mischief> | Encrypt your traffic! ENCRYPT IT |
| 21:05 | < Mischief> | They're watching. |
| 21:06 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-2472.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 21:06 | | Chalcy [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-2472.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 21:07 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 21:11 | <@jerith> | Vornicus: email them? |
| 21:11 | < Vornicus> | What pages? |
| 21:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. "Write a program to clear the first 20 bytes of memory". Easy enough, but it would be easier if I could figure out how to test register X... |
| 21:30 | < Vornicus> | oh, oh, the isp. |
| 21:36 | < Mischief> | Hmm.. where or how could I get apachectl to be executed as a command in root? (Typing out the path is a pain) |
| 21:37 | | * jerith doesn't follow. |
| 21:37 | <@jerith> | Do you want it in your path? |
| 21:37 | <@jerith> | The easiest thing is to symlink it to /usr/local/bin/ |
| 21:37 | < Mischief> | I just want to be able to open bash, and type apachectl start, reload, stop, restart |
| 21:37 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, go simlinking |
| 21:37 | <@McMartin> | You really don't want all of /sbin in your path |
| 21:38 | <@jerith> | ln -s /path/to/apachectl /usr/local/bin/ |
| 21:38 | < Mischief> | /usr/local/apache2/bin/apachectl -f /usr/local/apache2/conf/httpd.conf ? |
| 21:46 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 21:59 | < Mischief> | Weird. |
| 21:59 | < Mischief> | ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ "home/foxywiki/data/cgi-bin/" |
| 21:59 | < Mischief> | Still can't find cgi-bin |
| 21:59 | < Mischief> | moin.cgi, I mean |
| 22:01 | < Mischief> | Ah, well I did something. |
| 22:21 | < Mischief> | Why do you guys think the server is saying "You don't have permission to access /moin.cgi/ on this server."? |
| 22:22 | < Mischief> | Effecticely, i've chowned the directory (cgi-bin) to www-data (user and group), then set it chmod -R ug+rwX $INSTANCE | chmod -R o-rwx $INSTANCE |
| 22:24 | < Mischief> | even 127.0.0.1 doesn't have access. O.o; |
| 23:03 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29643.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 23:04 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29563.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 23:04 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 23:24 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:29 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:35 | | McMartin [~mcmartin@Nightstar-904.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: brb] |
| --- Log closed Mon Sep 24 00:00:34 2007 |