| --- Log opened Sat May 26 00:00:05 2007 |
| 00:48 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon[coding] |
| 01:00 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 01:02 | | * Derakon[coding] idly shakes fist at his code, which is actually *still* jittering, just only on slanted slopes now. |
| 01:15 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 01:28 | | * Takyoji pokes Derakon[coding], "What are you working on?" A game with a simple collision-detection system? |
| 01:32 | <@Vornicus> | Not "simple" so much as "these physics actually work" |
| 01:33 | < Takyoji> | ohh |
| 01:33 | < Takyoji> | With what physics engine? |
| 01:34 | <@Vornicus> | I think he's rolling his own, which is why he's having so many troubles with the "basic" stuff. |
| 01:37 | < Takyoji> | ahh |
| 01:37 | < Takyoji> | It's just that the collision detection is giving him a problem, right? |
| 01:40 | <@Vornicus> | I think it's more the backout code. |
| 01:40 | < Takyoji> | ahh |
| 01:40 | < Takyoji> | What language? |
| 01:42 | <@Vornicus> | C++/Lua, iirc. I don't know what half the physics code is in, probably C++. |
| 01:43 | < Takyoji> | ahh |
| 01:48 | | * Derakon[coding] pokes his head in. "Vorn has the right of it." |
| 01:48 | <@Derakon[coding]> | All of the collision detection code is in C++, but the way the sprites react to collision is in Lua. |
| 01:51 | < Takyoji> | ahh |
| 01:52 | <@Derakon[coding]> | The basic issue here is, given two intersecting, convex bounding polygons, one of which is fixed in space and one which has velocity vector v, how far do you back one of the polygons out along v such that it no longer intersects the other polygon? |
| 01:52 | < Takyoji> | *shrugs* |
| 01:52 | < Takyoji> | Depends on the scale of the movement and object.. |
| 01:53 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Well, I have logic that works; it's just that the sprites tend to jitter up and down. |
| 01:53 | < Takyoji> | ahh, yea I know you mean |
| 01:53 | < Takyoji> | What renderer are you using? |
| 01:53 | < Takyoji> | SDL? |
| 01:53 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Yes. |
| 01:54 | < Takyoji> | ahh |
| 01:54 | <@Derakon[coding]> | This is not a graphics problem, though. |
| 01:54 | < Takyoji> | I know |
| 01:54 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Well, it *might* be... |
| 01:54 | <@Derakon[coding]> | When I collide againsnt flat ground at reasonably high speed, I can see a single frame in which the sprite is heavily-embedded into the ground. |
| 01:55 | <@Derakon[coding]> | It's almost like I'm drawing the sprite before I react to collision. |
| 01:55 | < Takyoji> | ah |
| 01:56 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Almost, but not quite - I'm not updating the engine's view of the sprite's location before drawing. |
| 01:56 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Hah! That did it. |
| 01:57 | <@Derakon[coding]> | No more jitter on slopes. |
| 01:57 | < Takyoji> | wooo |
| 01:58 | <@Derakon[coding]> | (The sprite state is *mostly* store in Lua scripts, but some useful stuff like position, velocity, and currently displayed image are stored in the engine *as well*. If the script changes the sprite's location on collision, then I need to update both versions of the location before drawing the sprite) |
| 01:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | __newindex 4tw~ |
| 01:58 | <@Derakon[coding]> | ...heh. A few seconds' worth of running the game generates some 8529 log lines. |
| 01:58 | <@Derakon[coding]> | TF: ? |
| 01:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | The table assignment operator. |
| 01:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | By mapping __index and __newindex appropriately, you can transparently mix C-stored and Lua-stored data. |
| 02:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | (well, really, "can transparently expose C-stored data to Lua", but this is one application of it) |
| 02:00 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Yeah, that'd mean storing all positional data in C and any other stuff in Lua. |
| 02:00 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Which would work, but I don't want to mess with it right now. ¬.¬ |
| 02:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, you're already storing it in both, I don't see how that'd be any worse. |
| 02:01 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Simple: your method isn't already implemented. :p |
| 02:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | (well, it might be a performance hit if you're messing around with it in Lua a lot, and only later syncing it with C) |
| 02:01 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Right now there's only two places where the scripts can muck with the sprite's state, I note. |
| 02:04 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Now I just have to figure out when it's appropriate to back out along the velocity vector and when it's appropriate to back out along the surface normal, and I'll have sprites *walking*. Truly, that will be a glorious day. |
| 02:23 | | TakyojiClone [~Takyoji@Nightstar-25812.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #code |
| 02:23 | | Takyoji [~Takyoji@Nightstar-25812.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by TakyojiClone))] |
| 02:23 | | TakyojiClone is now known as Takyoji |
| 02:30 | <@Derakon[coding]> | "Hack the planet. Captain Planet! Buffer overflow on Heart Ring." |
| 02:30 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Ahh, DeceasedCrab. |
| 02:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | What is this, Let's Play Shadowrun? |
| 02:44 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Yes. |
| 02:59 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Hrm...the main goal with backing out along the velocity vector instead of the normal is to avoid sliding down slopes. I don't know if there are any other cases where I would want to use the velocity vector, in fact. |
| 03:00 | <@Derakon[coding]> | There should be some way to make use of that fact to determine when/how much of backing out should be along the velocity vector. |
| 03:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. If v-vector is straight down, back out along v instead of along n, subject to slope steepness checks? |
| 03:08 | <@Derakon[coding]> | I'm trying that, but it's giving me teleportation problems...I may have deeper issues. Bah. |
| 03:09 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Ahh, yes, I'm not properly calculating the line's normal. |
| 03:10 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Multiplying the y-component by -1 allows me to walk on flat surfaces, but slants make me go berserk. Whee! |
| 03:10 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Oh, I should back up my work. |
| 03:14 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Why is collision detection so damned hard to do properly, anyway? |
| 03:17 | <@Vornicus> | because it is damn hard. |
| 03:18 | <@Vornicus> | Because we're trying to do something instantaneously by math that it takes the real world some time to do. |
| 03:19 | <@Derakon[coding]> | That's it. The next time I do physics I'm composing every object of billions of atoms and doing everything by sphere-sphere detections. ¬.¬ |
| 03:20 | <@Vornicus> | Hee |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | BUt this is why Havok gets mentioned everywhere - they figured it out, and nobody else has to do it any more. |
| 03:45 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Havok is that 3D physics engine card thing, right? |
| 03:45 | <@Vornicus> | Havok is not a card, it's software. |
| 03:45 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Ah. |
| 03:45 | <@Vornicus> | though I imagine that if anybody would take advantage of physics cards, it'd be Havok. |
| 03:45 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Is it open-source? |
| 03:45 | <@Vornicus> | No |
| 03:46 | <@Derakon[coding]> | All this stuff I have to do is increasingly pushing me towards open-sourcing the Niobium engine. |
| 03:46 | <@Vornicus> | http://www.havok.com/ |
| 03:46 | <@Vornicus> | But they do lots of cool stuff. |
| 04:11 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Yeah...the line y = x does not have a normal vector of <0, 1>. |
| 04:14 | <@Vornicus> | heh |
| 04:14 | <@Derakon[coding]> | I hate it when I catch my engine lying through its teeth. |
| 04:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | The physics card is Ageia PhysX. |
| 04:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't know if it interoperates with Havok at all. |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aha. No, it doesn't. |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, PhysX is a newtonian physics library and an expansion card; if you have the card installed the library just offloads all calculations to it, otherwise it performs them in software. |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Havok is a physics library without an expansion card, but offloads some of the physics onto the GPU's shader subsystem. |
| 04:19 | <@Derakon[coding]> | I think that qualifies as abuse of a GPU. O_o |
| 04:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, Havok will give you generally better results - which is probably why it's so much more popular - but PhysX can be made to fly by getting a physics card. |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | (AIUI, for stuff with visual effects but not gameplay effects - small debris, for example - it generates shader code for the appropriate physics and uploads it to the card) |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | (since it doesn't need to keep it in sync with the game state, as it doesn't effect that) |
| 04:23 | | * Derakon[coding] snerks massively at the Bond intro parody in ReBoot. |
| 05:42 | | * ToxicFrog ponders Chrono Trigger on the PSP. |
| 05:43 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Will it have loading times of Doom? |
| 05:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | World map: runs fine. Field: runs fine, minor slowdown when displaying dialogue. |
| 05:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Menus, however, bring the system to its knees. |
| 05:43 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Knew it! |
| 05:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | No load times, though. |
| 05:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | (I'm running it in a SNES emulator) |
| 05:43 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Ahh. |
| 05:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I suspect that battles - consisting as they do of both special effects and menus - will be in slow motion. |
| 05:47 | | * ToxicFrog says hi to Gato to test this |
| 05:47 | <@Derakon[coding]> | TF = Bizarro TF? |
| 05:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | ?? |
| 05:48 | <@Derakon[coding]> | You said Hi, and then left. |
| 05:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...what? |
| 05:49 | <@Derakon[coding]> | "ToxicFrog says hi to Gato to test this" |
| 05:49 | <@Derakon[coding]> | ...oh, I misread that. |
| 05:49 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Gato != Goto. |
| 05:49 | | * Derakon[coding] coughs. |
| 05:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Gato, as in Lucca's large pink deathbot. |
| 05:50 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Right. |
| 05:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | And the answer is: game runs slightly slower, music runs much slower. |
| 05:52 | | * ToxicFrog was two turns in before it finished the opening riffs |
| 05:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh man. |
| 05:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | The timegates totally hose its performance. |
| 05:57 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Mode 7! |
| 05:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, the timegates aren't mode 7. |
| 05:58 | <@Derakon[coding]> | But I bet it'll be a bit harsh too. |
| 05:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | I haven't seen mode 7 in action yet; I think CT uses it only in one place, the ending sequence. |
| 05:58 | <@Derakon[coding]> | The timegates are that weird filter thing. |
| 05:58 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Also in the race. |
| 05:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah yes. |
| 05:59 | <@Derakon[coding]> | ...hah. You should try Recca on your PSP. |
| 06:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...this, um, looks like a bug |
| 06:01 | <@Vornicus> | ?? |
| 06:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have Marle's Pendant x2 |
| 06:01 | <@Vornicus> | hee |
| 06:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Presumably it never properly deleted the one I picked up in Leene Square. |
| 06:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon[coding]: as in, the NES game? Did that. |
| 06:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | I get my ass kicked just as badly on the PSP as on the PC. |
| 06:02 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Excellent. |
| 06:02 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Heh. |
| 06:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | It also runs at full speed; NES emulation is fairly mature. |
| 06:04 | <@Derakon[coding]> | This is good. |
| 06:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | So far my experience has been: NES, Gameboy, GBC: full speed; GBA: full speed, but some stuttering in some games (eg, player phase/enemy phase screens in Fire Emblem); Genesis, SNES: slowdown in some games, SNES seems to have music slowdown but not game slowdown in some cases. |
| 06:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | And PSX works fine, except for Front Mission 3, which crashes every few battles. |
| 06:06 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Ach. |
| 06:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | MSX is also reported to work well, and N64 is reported to run at half speed. |
| 06:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, it's a TRPG. |
| 06:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | So "every few battles" is still between 1 and 3 hours of gameplay. |
| 06:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | And you can save at any time. |
| 06:07 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Fair enough. |
| 06:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | So I'm less annoyed by this then I would be otherwise. |
| 06:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Bah. The game won't let me use knowledge from a previous life to go straight to the cathedral and slaughter everything~ |
| 06:09 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Heh. |
| 06:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | It totally should, especially since they are the least subtle fake nuns ever. |
| 06:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | As soon as he talks to them, it should be Generic Adventurer Instincts GOOOO and then everything dies. |
| 06:10 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Generic Adventurer Instincts are really rather stupid. |
| 06:10 | <@Derakon[coding]> | "It's a trap!" "Then we must spring it!" |
| 06:12 | | * Vornicus should play Front Mission. |
| 06:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Man, I had forgotten how much ATB sucked. |
| 06:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Front Mission also kicks a whole mess of ass, and gives you larger parties to boot, although I still prefer FM3. |
| 06:13 | <@Derakon[coding]> | ATB? |
| 06:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Active Time Battle, the terrible battle system used in Final Fantasy IV(?) through 9 and in Chrono Trigger. |
| 06:14 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Ahh. |
| 06:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: I have a translated ROM of Front Mission 1 (for SNES) kicking around, and disc images of 3 aren't hard to find. |
| 06:18 | <@Vornicus> | I'll take the former. |
| 06:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | There was a PSX remake of FM1, but it was never translated ;.; |
| 06:18 | <@Vornicus> | PSX emulation on Mac is the most craptacular thing ever. |
| 06:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah yes. |
| 06:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | And FM3 emulates poorly to begin with. |
| 06:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | (since, you know, it's completely unplayable in ePSXe unless you like seconds-per-frame, and crashes occasionally on the PSP) |
| 06:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Catch. |
| 06:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | FM3 is so shiny, though. |
| 06:20 | <@Derakon[coding]> | ...heh. And here I thought that the filename "The Episode With No Name.avi" indicated an episode where the creators forgot to insert a title. |
| 06:20 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Nope, they inserted a title all right. It's "The Episode With No Name". |
| 06:20 | <@Vornicus> | hee |
| 06:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | At the top level, it's 3d terrain, with mechs as sprites - individual sprites for each weapon/body part, so all customization shows up. |
| 06:20 | <@Vornicus> | bitchrod. |
| 06:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | When you're actually attacking, it zooms in and replaces the sprites with 3d models. |
| 06:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | (zooms in so that it can get away with doing this for just the attacker and defender) |
| 06:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although this is, when you get down to it, just a 3d-enabled adaptation of what the original does with the SNES. |
| 06:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | (although the SNES version doesn't, to my knowledge, include a complete in-game internet) |
| 06:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | (or two totally different, full-game-length storylines, but I still haven't finished it, so...) |
| 06:22 | <@Vornicus> | "complete in-game internet" |
| 06:22 | <@Vornicus> | hee |
| 06:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | A small one :P |
| 06:23 | <@Vornicus> | Well, obviously. |
| 06:23 | | * Vornicus is suddenly reminded of another game he wanted to remake. |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Play your links right and you can get the email address of a black-market mech mail-order operation~ |
| 06:24 | <@Derakon[coding]> | How's their shipping fees? |
| 06:24 | <@Vornicus> | mail order mech! |
| 06:24 | <@Vornicus> | Is it like rent-a-zilla? |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Expensive, but the mech is badass. |
| 06:24 | <@Vornicus> | Hrm. |
| 06:24 | <@Vornicus> | This DCC is bursty. |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's the secret endgame superweapon. |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, not "superweapon" |
| 06:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | But it's the equivalent of the secret ultimate weapons in $(insert final fantasy game here |
| 06:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | As far as the storylines go, it's kind of completely insane. |
| 06:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Basically, at the very start of the game - right after the tutorial - your friend, Ryogo, asks if you want to go with him to the construction site. |
| 06:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Depending on whether you answer yes or know, you get two totally different games. |
| 06:26 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Well hey, at least it's right at the start. |
| 06:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | The background story remains the same, but which side you end up on is different (it diverges at the end of the first real mission) and thus the player characters, battles, specific storyline, etc are all completely different. |
| 06:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's pretty awesome. |
| 06:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and each storyline has sub-branches, too. And somehow they fit all this on a single CD.) |
| 06:28 | <@Vornicus> | Story and levels are relatively cheap. |
| 06:28 | <@Vornicus> | Especially if you're using tiley levels. |
| 06:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | True. I refer more to the vast quantities of mech and weapon models and environment textures. |
| 06:29 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Models are also pretty cheap; it's textures that kill. |
| 06:29 | <@Vornicus> | true. |
| 06:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | (each mech consists of four seperate models with associated textures, and there's /lots/ of mechs.) |
| 06:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and lots of weapons, too; spikes, axes, rods, shotguns, machine guns, flamethrowers, missiles, grenade launchers, shields, the Heavy Particle Cannon...oh, and backpacks...and I think I'm forgetting a few.) |
| 06:30 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Massive customization FTW. |
| 06:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | (oh. And you can retexture the mechs, but I don't know if that's a seperate texture or just a palette swap.) |
| 06:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. |
| 06:31 | <@Derakon[coding]> | So in other news, I'm considering merging the slow-fall and hover capabilities and inserting another combat booster or two. |
| 06:31 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Thing is, I'm having trouble thinking of new ways to boost combat abilities. |
| 06:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have a tendency to go for speed and accuracy over durability, and end up with mechs that can boost 12 squares in a single turn, jump three storeys straight up, and have an 80% hit rate at extreme range... |
| 06:31 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Glass cannon with wings? |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...and can survive at most two hits before parts of them start exploding. |
| 06:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although that works out well for Emma, since she's my missile sniper. One missile launcher on each shoulder means rarely having to reload. |
| 06:32 | <@Derakon[coding]> | So I'm thinking maybe giving the player a range extension... |
| 06:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | It also means that if Salvo goes off, I haven't used up all my missiles~ |
| 06:33 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Though I'm concerned about what that would do to the graphics. |
| 06:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | (battle abilities randomly trigger. Salvo triggers only when attacking with missiles, and fires -all remaining missiles- in the launcher at your target.) |
| 06:33 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Another possibility is simply increasing the speed of attacks, but I think I want to cover that under "jet-boosted attacks". |
| 06:34 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Any ideas? |
| 06:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not at 0140. |
| 06:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hee. Crono's "surprised" pose is so funny. |
| 06:35 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Heh. |
| 06:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | TIME PARADOX: LEENE IS DEAD |
| 06:36 | <@Derakon[coding]> | With remarkably few ramifications! |
| 06:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, apart from the disappearence of the main character's love interest and subsequent obliteration of the world by Lavos. |
| 06:37 | <@Derakon[coding]> | That latter point has nothing to do with Queen Leene, though. |
| 06:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, no Leene -> no Marle, and no Marle means I have considerably less whupass available. |
| 06:37 | <@Derakon[coding]> | I was more thinking along the lines of "Guardia wasn't obliterated by the Magi" etc. |
| 06:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...since when were the Magi interested in obliterating Guardia? |
| 06:38 | <@Derakon[coding]> | ...come to think, their motivations never were very clear. |
| 06:39 | <@Derakon[coding]> | But they were on the offensive, and winning, before Crono recruited Frog for the war effort. |
| 06:39 | <@Vornicus> | ...this is some impressive graphics in this game. |
| 06:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon[coding]: perhaps you're thinking of Magus? |
| 06:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Whose motivations are in fact crystal clear once you complete that segment of storyline? |
| 06:40 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Magus was leading the Magi. |
| 06:40 | <@Derakon[coding]> | A.k.a. the monsters. |
| 06:40 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Er....mystics. Sorry. |
| 06:40 | <@Derakon[coding]> | The only reason we ever hear for mystics hating humans is that the humans kicked their butts in the war, which doesn't explain why the war itself got started. |
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| 06:43 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.36.ns-26407] has joined #Code |
| 06:43 | | mode/#code [+o Serah] by ChanServ |
| 06:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | The understanding I had is that intelligence of Magus' efforts to summon Lavos, combined with general anti-mystic sentiment, led Guardia to overreact and either attack him or, more likely, make threatening noises at him. |
| 06:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | And Magus isn't the most level-headed overlord out there~ |
| 06:43 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Magus is a little single-minded. |
| 06:44 | <@Derakon[coding]> | "Sir! Guardia is not happy about your plans!" "Oh? Well, just get them out of my way, will you?" "Sir! Yes, sir!" *war* |
| 06:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | The impression I get is mainly that he's leaving the war itself mostly to Ozzy, Flea and Slash, and concerns himself with the summoning- yes. |
| 06:46 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Anyway, this is beside the fact that killing Queen Leene would likely result in Crono and co. never being born in the first place. |
| 06:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | How do you figure? |
| 06:47 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Crono isn't around to get Frog's head out of his ass; thus, the battle at the bridge, which is Guardia's last line of defense, is lost. |
| 06:47 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Mystics overrun the village, killing Crono's ancestors. |
| 06:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and, er, why am I arguing temporal mechanics in Chrono Trigger instead of sleeping?) |
| 06:47 | | GeekSoldier|Sleep is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 06:47 | <@Derakon[coding]> | It's a three-day weekend? |
| 06:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | No it isn't. |
| 06:47 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Oh? No Memorial Day off for you? |
| 06:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although I don't have to get up early on monday thanks to the joys of working at home. |
| 06:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Canada, remember? |
| 06:48 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Ahh. |
| 06:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | We had Victoria Day last weekend. |
| 06:48 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Anyway, I'm curious what Magus could have achieved in the depths of his stronghold, against Lavos. He lost pitifully in the Ocean Palace, but circumstances weren't exactly under his control then. |
| 06:48 | <@Derakon[coding]> | ...never heard of that one. |
| 06:48 | <@Derakon[coding]> | You're a Canuck? Hunh. |
| 06:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Queen's birthday, which is the monday before May 23rd regardless of when her actual birthday is. |
| 06:49 | <@Derakon[coding]> | So Wikipedia tells me. |
| 06:49 | <@Vornicus> | Magus was ten times as strong in his Sanctum than he was later. |
| 06:49 | <@Derakon[coding]> | That could also be general got-stomped-six-ways-from-6-billion-BC fatigue, Vorn. |
| 06:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Magus, I think, could have at least severely damaged Lavos and possibly even won. |
| 06:50 | <@Derakon[coding]> | I will note that the Chronotrigger TAS uses Magus, alone, to win the final battles. |
| 06:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | After all, he was summoning Lavos on his terms, in the center of his sanctum and place of power, having prepared for this for basically all his life. |
| 06:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | If Team Crono had shown up a week later there is a very good chance Magus would have greeted them from a throne carved from Lavos' carapace~ |
| 06:51 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Ow. |
| 06:51 | <@Derakon[coding]> | I hope he took the spines out first, for his sake. |
| 06:51 | <@Vornicus> | Hee |
| 06:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, I figure you flip it the other way around. |
| 06:52 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Magus in his lair has 6666 hitpoints. Magus at North Cape has 666, and doesn't cast Shell. |
| 06:52 | <@Derakon[coding]> | At least, I don't think he does. |
| 06:53 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Lavos at the Ocean Palace has 30000 hitpoints, mind. |
| 06:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, I figure it would be somewhat more vulnerable if summoned by Magus. |
| 06:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Presumably some nontrivial portion of the time he spent preparing was in devising a summoning that would not merely call Lavos, but also limit it. |
| 06:54 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Also get some kind of mystical autocannons around the summoning circle. |
| 06:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Quite. |
| 06:56 | | * Vornicus goes shopping. |
| 06:56 | | * Derakon[coding] eyes this FAQ. "Do you remember someone named Sprigg in a temporal vortex?" |
| 06:56 | <@Derakon[coding]> | In Chronotrigger, that is. |
| 06:56 | <@Vornicus> | (in Front Mission, that is) |
| 06:56 | <@Vornicus> | Sprigg? no. |
| 06:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's Chrono Cross. |
| 06:57 | <@Vornicus> | There's Spekkio, the Nu warrior. |
| 06:57 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Oooh. No wonder I don't recognize this stuff. |
| 06:57 | <@Vornicus> | Chrono Cross has a badass startup movie. |
| 06:57 | <@Derakon[coding]> | ("Ghosts of Crono, Marle, and Lucca"? WTF? Etc.) |
| 06:58 | | Takyoji [~Takyoji@Nightstar-25812.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 06:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Chrono Cross has a badass startup movie, great environments, great gameplay, a confusing storyline, way too many characters and a horribly underwhelming ending. |
| 06:59 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.36.ns-26407] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 07:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, and music that varies between "excellent" and "whoever decided that this should be the most commonly heard track in the game must die" |
| 07:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Lucca learns Flame Toss! |
| 07:01 | <@Vornicus> | yey |
| 07:01 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Mmmm, Fire Whirl. |
| 07:01 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Flame Toss is itself quite useful, so long as your enemies line up nicely. |
| 07:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | I now have a full range of tactical options: cut things, set them on fire, or cut them while setting them on fire. |
| 07:02 | <@Vornicus> | Hee |
| 07:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh my god, that was horrific |
| 07:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | I was attacked by four enemies with hp ranging from 60 to 90. |
| 07:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | I decided to test out Fire Whirl. |
| 07:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | 250 damage to all of them. |
| 07:03 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Wheee elemental weaknesses! |
| 07:04 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Hunh. Crono's Slash attack depends on his Magic stat. |
| 07:05 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.36.ns-26407] has joined #Code |
| 07:05 | | mode/#code [+o Serah] by ChanServ |
| 07:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | X-Strike! |
| 07:06 | <@Vornicus> | Bitchrod! |
| 07:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've always understood "bitchrod" to be a quantifier. |
| 07:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...except I'm wrong. |
| 07:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Never mind. |
| 07:07 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Okay, I'm slowly collapsing here. Night, all. |
| 07:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | 'night |
| 07:07 | <@Vornicus> | nider |
| 07:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I think I'll follow. |
| 07:07 | | * ToxicFrog slwwp |
| 07:07 | <@Vornicus> | nitf |
| 07:07 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Night, TF. |
| 07:08 | <@Derakon[coding]> | I have this urge to rename myself to "Derakno" for the night. |
| 07:08 | <@Derakon[coding]> | Ahh, hell, why not? |
| 07:08 | | Derakon[coding] is now known as Derakno[AFK] |
| 07:12 | | * Serah pokes Vorn with a format. |
| 07:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:14 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| 07:14 | <@Vornicus> | ow. |
| 07:22 | | * Serah formats Reiver after Vorn's standards. |
| 07:22 | | * Serah pokes Reiver with a standard. |
| 07:23 | | GeekSoldier is now known as GS|Mech |
| 07:24 | < Reiver> | With one of Vorns standards? |
| 07:24 | < Reiver> | In that case I am fast, efficient, but unfortunately only half comple?????£????=…? |
| 07:25 | < Reiver> | ¬¬ |
| 07:26 | <@Vornicus> | :P |
| 07:27 | < Reiver> | So what is this standard, Vorny? |
| 07:27 | <@Vornicus> | I don't know. |
| 07:27 | <@Vornicus> | Ask Serah |
| 07:27 | < Reiver> | Oh. |
| 07:27 | < Reiver> | I had thought you might have been working on something new. |
| 07:27 | <@Vornicus> | no. |
| 07:27 | <@Serah> | Yes, Vornprojectstorytellingtime! |
| 07:28 | | * Serah sits down around Vorn and waits for him to tell epic tales of projects he've undergone. |
| 07:28 | <@Vornicus> | hah |
| 07:57 | | * jerith has an epic project today. |
| 07:58 | <@jerith> | Making all my stuff work properly on the new server. |
| 08:00 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has joined #Code |
| 08:00 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 08:02 | <@Vornicus> | ...holy crap, how many parts /are/ there in this game? |
| 08:05 | < Reiver> | ? |
| 08:06 | <@Vornicus> | I'm playing Front Mission. |
| 08:06 | <@Vornicus> | For SNES. |
| 08:07 | <@Vornicus> | And in this game, every part in the game has several angles you can see it at, and the sprites it uses are /huge/ |
| 08:07 | < Reiver> | ok |
| 08:07 | <@Vornicus> | And there's... lots and lots of parts. |
| 08:10 | < Reiver> | And what is a part? |
| 08:11 | <@Vornicus> | Well, Front Mission, you have mechs. |
| 08:11 | <@Vornicus> | So there's torso parts |
| 08:11 | <@Vornicus> | and legs parts and arm parts and shoulder and hand weapons. |
| 08:11 | < Reiver> | Ahhh |
| 08:12 | < Reiver> | Now it makes sense. |
| 08:15 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[swim] |
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| 15:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Anyone know if there's a way to make Dev-CPP show the full path to a file, either in the project tree or in the source tabs? |
| 15:28 | <@TheWatcher> | because I'm buggered if I can finsa way to do it |
| 16:05 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 16:40 | | * Serah pokes ToxicFrog. |
| 16:45 | | * ToxicFrog eeks |
| 16:46 | <@Serah> | Help teh man. |
| 16:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't use devCPP! |
| 16:53 | <@TheWatcher> | sensible chap. At this rate, I'm going back to emacs. |
| 16:54 | <@jerith> | Yaymmacs! |
| 16:54 | <@jerith> | -m |
| 16:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I do all my development in NEdit on Linux. For windows builds I just copy it into my mingw workbox and 'make mingw' |
| 16:56 | | * GeekSoldier goes back to ed. |
| 16:58 | | * TheWatcher is thinking of shifting everything onto his linux box and using samba when compiling from in windows |
| 17:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | I would do this, but windows lacks arbitrary mountpoints and I don't want to install MSYS on a networked drive. |
| 17:12 | | Takyoji [~Takyoji@Nightstar-25812.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #code |
| 17:15 | < Takyoji> | :P http://www.amazon.com/c-jump-Computer-Programming-Board-Game/dp/B000E0G442/ref=s r_1_5/102-0618399-1751325?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1180195790&sr=8-5 |
| 17:17 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 18:08 | | Derakno[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 18:37 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:41 | | GeekSoldier_ [~Rob@Nightstar-4427.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
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| 19:28 | < Takyoji> | Wait, you can never have more than one root element? |
| 19:28 | < Takyoji> | in XML |
| 19:29 | < Takyoji> | I'm working with a UPS shipping XML interface and apparently it requires two root elements: <RatingServiceSelectionRequest> and <AccessRequest> |
| 19:29 | < Takyoji> | But Internet Explorer isn't allowing my to view it because of the two root elements |
| 19:30 | < Takyoji> | And I'm not using an XSL sheet |
| 19:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | This doesn't mean "you can never have more than one root element", although that's entirely plausible |
| 19:30 | < Takyoji> | ahh |
| 19:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | It means "IE doesn't support XML documents with more than one root document" |
| 19:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Because, well, it's IE. |
| 19:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Trusting it to be anywhere within spitting distance of the spec is a fool's game. |
| 19:31 | < Takyoji> | It's just that the standard XSL IE uses for viewing XML files without an XSL doesn't allow it? |
| 19:31 | < Takyoji> | Heh, true |
| 19:33 | < Takyoji> | "XML Parsing Error: junk after document element" |
| 19:34 | < Takyoji> | In FireFox as well |
| 19:34 | < Takyoji> | http://aquaeden.com/ups.xml |
| 19:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | XML parsing failed: syntax error (Line: 8, Character: 0) |
| 19:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Reparse document as HTML |
| 19:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Error:unexpected start-tag (root element already specified) |
| 19:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Specification:http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/ |
| 19:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Are you sure it expects both at once, and not one or the other? |
| 19:37 | < Takyoji> | Argh, I guess it is seperate, they just have it all crammed in the same box which is very misleading |
| 19:38 | < Takyoji> | "Each transaction is made up of two separate XML request documents. These requests are concatenated and |
| 19:38 | < Takyoji> | posted to the UPS web servers using a single HTTP Post. |
| 19:38 | < Takyoji> | When validating the request XML documents, do not treat the two concatenated documents as a single XML |
| 19:38 | < Takyoji> | document. XML parsers can not parse two concatenated documents. Process each XML Request separately. |
| 19:38 | < Takyoji> | UPS will separate the two documents and parse them individually. To ensure this occurs, verify that |
| 19:38 | < Takyoji> | <?xml version="1.0"?> is at the top of each XML request document." |
| 19:40 | < Takyoji> | So I ironically it accepts them conjoined, but they should be validated seperately.. |
| 20:23 | | TakyojiClone [~Takyoji@Nightstar-25812.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #code |
| 20:23 | | Takyoji [~Takyoji@Nightstar-25812.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by TakyojiClone))] |
| 20:23 | | TakyojiClone is now known as Takyoji |
| 20:55 | < Takyoji> | So wait.. how do you send post data in an HTTP request? |
| 20:56 | < Takyoji> | Such as for including that XML output in the POST data |
| 21:56 | <@Derakon> | Back to debugging SAT. >.< |
| 22:05 | <@Derakon> | Okay, that was easy. Vorn gave me a bogus formula. I just needed an ordinary dot product. ¬.¬ |
| 22:52 | <@Derakon> | Ahh, I love the STL. |
| 22:53 | <@Derakon> | polygon.cpp:428: error: passing 'const std::map<Line*, Coord, std::less<Line*>, std::allocator<std::pair<Line* const, Coord> > >' as 'this' argument of '_Tp& std::map<_Key, _Tp, _Compare, _Alloc>::operator[](const _Key&) |
| 22:53 | <@Derakon> | [with _Key = Line*, _Tp = Coord, _Compare = std::less<Line*>, _Alloc = std::allocator<std::pair<Line* const, Coord> >]' discards qualifiers |
| 22:54 | | * ToxicFrog 's head goes pop |
| 22:55 | | * Derakon removes some gratuitous use of the 'const' keyword, and it all goes away. |
| 23:34 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 23:40 | <@Derakon> | Hmmm...this could be a problem. When you project a square onto its perpendiculars, there are two possible normals for each projection. No wonder I'm having difficulty here. |
| 23:46 | <@Derakon> | Yay! Now the player bounces up and done when he walks on flat surfaces, instead of getting sucked into them! |
| 23:53 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| --- Log closed Sun May 27 00:00:11 2007 |