| --- Log opened Wed May 09 00:00:21 2007 |
| 00:23 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 00:23 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 00:23 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Client exited] |
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| 00:26 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 00:28 | | ToxicFrog|wr0k [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 00:33 | | * ToxicFrog eyes the fuck out of Microsoft |
| 00:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | GPG: well, we have to represent 32-bit unit IDs as strings in Lua because Lua numbers only have 24 integer bits. |
| 00:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Me: Wait, what? What did you do to the terp? |
| 00:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | spliff: I'm guessing they're referring to the issue where initializing Direct3D sets the FPU to 24-bit precision. |
| 00:36 | <@gnolam> | terp? |
| 00:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Interpreter. |
| 00:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | By default Lua uses double-precision floating-point. |
| 00:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, SupComm is a D3D game. |
| 00:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | And initializing Direct3D causes a bunch of the precision bits in the FPCW to be cleared. |
| 00:39 | | * gnolam tok-tok-toks. |
| 00:40 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 00:51 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyAFK |
| 01:19 | | ChalcyAFK is now known as Chalcedon |
| 01:24 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyAFK |
| 03:13 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/tai_ragnarok/Endlingpansies.png] |
| 03:34 | <@Raif> | TF: I know someone working for GPG. She hates it. |
| 03:34 | <@Raif> | Granted, she's an artist, and artists are generally treated differently from programmers, but it'd certainly give me pause if I were considering working there. |
| 03:36 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| 03:36 | | ChalcyAFK is now known as Chalcedon |
| 04:00 | < MyCatVerbs> | Who're GPG? |
| 04:10 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-17628.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 04:10 | | mode/#code [+o Thaqui] by ChanServ |
| 04:14 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 04:18 | | Vornicus is now known as IanMusgrave |
| 04:37 | <@Raif> | Gas Powered Games |
| 04:58 | | Reiver is now known as ReivClass |
| 05:51 | | Pi [~sysop@Nightstar-6875.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 05:58 | | Pi [~sysop@Nightstar-6875.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 05:58 | | mode/#code [+o Pi] by ChanServ |
| 06:05 | | Pi [~sysop@Nightstar-6875.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 06:12 | | Pi [~sysop@Nightstar-6875.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 06:12 | | mode/#code [+o Pi] by ChanServ |
| 06:21 | | Forjadon [~Forjadon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 06:21 | | mode/#code [+o Forjadon] by ChanServ |
| 06:25 | | ReivClass is now known as Reiver |
| 06:36 | | GS[Away] is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 06:36 | | * GeekSoldier is no longer away : Gone for 9 hours 38 minutes 19 seconds |
| 06:41 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:23 | | GeekSoldier is now known as GS[Away] |
| 07:23 | | * GS[Away] is now away - Reason : Work. |
| 07:27 | | IanMusgrave is now known as Vornicus |
| 07:44 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.36.ns-26407] has quit [Quit: work calls] |
| 08:15 | | * Raif wraps GS in duct tape for having an away notification script. :) |
| 08:50 | | KBot [~karma.bot@Nightstar-29191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 08:50 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29460.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 08:50 | | KarmaBot [~karma.bot@Nightstar-29460.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 08:51 | | KBot is now known as KarmaBot |
| 08:55 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 08:55 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 09:10 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has joined #Code |
| 09:10 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 09:36 | <@gnolam> | http://modblog.bmezine.com/2007/05/03/takedown-this/ |
| 09:45 | | Forjadon [~Forjadon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 10:11 | | Reiver is now known as ReivOut |
| 10:12 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 10:35 | | GS[Away] is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 10:35 | | * GeekSoldier is no longer away : Gone for 3 hours 11 minutes 42 seconds |
| 11:05 | | GeekSoldier is now known as GS[Away] |
| 11:05 | | * GS[Away] is now away - Reason : back to work again. |
| 11:07 | | * AnnoDomini beats GeekSoldier with a stick until he dies for having an away script. |
| 11:10 | | * gnolam joins in. |
| 11:29 | | Mahal is now known as MahalBEDD |
| 11:42 | < ReivOut> | This would be why most people just change their nick - join/quit/nick is less obtrusive than actual text. |
| 11:56 | | ReivOut is now known as Reiver |
| --- Log closed Wed May 09 13:10:18 2007 |
| --- Log opened Wed May 09 13:10:23 2007 |
| 13:10 | | TheWatcher [~chris@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 13:10 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 16 nicks [10 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal] |
| 13:10 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher] by ChanServ |
| 13:10 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 33 secs |
| 14:19 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-17628.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #code [Leaving] |
| 15:26 | | GS[Away] is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 15:26 | | * GeekSoldier is no longer away : Gone for 4 hours 21 minutes 22 seconds |
| 15:28 | < GeekSoldier> | AD: noted and changed. |
| 15:37 | <@Pi> | Reiver - Even less obtrusive is to offer no indication whatsoever that you've left the keyboard, aside from an extreme response delay. |
| 15:37 | <@Vornicus> | pff. |
| 15:38 | <@Pi> | Honestly, most people just don't care whether you're actually sitting at your kb or not, unless they're in an active conversation with you. In which case, the answer is that you probably are. |
| 15:39 | <@Pi> | Nickchanges are not a panacea either. In most clients (well, in mIRC, irssi, and xchat which are the ones I've used) nickchanges are just as spammy as messages. Just not as loud. |
| 15:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not in xchat. |
| 15:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nicks show up as low-level activity, chat as mid-level. |
| 15:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Of course, this is really what /away is for. |
| 15:40 | <@gnolam> | And you can disable channel highlighting for nick changes in mIRC. |
| 15:41 | < Reiver> | Pi: Fair enough. |
| 15:42 | <@Pi> | Yes, yes, valid points. But no technical solution can change the fact that I couldn't give a flying deathtrap whether you're ToxicFrog-Asleep or Reiver-atwork or gnolam-on-the-shitter. |
| 15:42 | < Reiver> | I more meant "If you must use an away, nickchanges are less obtrusive than text". |
| 15:42 | <@Pi> | True enough. |
| 15:43 | <@Pi> | And my point is that not changing your nick is even less obtrusive than nickchanges. |
| 15:43 | < Reiver> | "And even then, try to keep them minimal." |
| 15:44 | | * Pi does just that. ;) |
| 15:44 | < Reiver> | I got into the habit because people got annoyed at me for 'ignoring' them. >.> |
| 15:44 | < Reiver> | Now, I could have called them all idiots instead, but this was easier. >.> |
| 15:45 | < Reiver> | (I also tend to avoid needlessly changing - if I get up and am going to leave in 5 mins, I don't bother nick-changing.) |
| 15:45 | <@Pi> | I use the latter method because it's more fun, and it gives me that air of superiority over my fellow man that my ego so desperately craves. |
| 15:45 | < Reiver> | *snerk* |
| 16:21 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 17:11 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:52 | <@Raif> | I find it useful. |
| 17:52 | <@Raif> | It's nice to know whether somebody will respond within the next 10 hours, or whether I should get the fuck up and go do something. :P |
| 17:52 | | * Vornicus eyes. |
| 17:52 | <@Vornicus> | Raif, why the hell does Excel for Mac have DDE? |
| 17:53 | <@Raif> | We do? |
| 17:53 | <@Raif> | I know we have OLE hooks. |
| 17:53 | <@Raif> | (That's the bigger mystery, really) |
| 17:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | OLE? |
| 17:55 | <@Raif> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Linking_and_Embedding |
| 17:55 | <@Vornicus> | There's a preference, "ignore other applications" , which if you look it up in the help, says "If this option is selected, Microsoft Excel ignores requests from programs that link to Microsoft Excel data by means of DDE rather than OLE." |
| 17:55 | <@Raif> | It's more or less the precursor to COM. |
| 17:55 | <@Vornicus> | Now |
| 17:55 | <@Vornicus> | last I knew |
| 17:56 | <@Vornicus> | DDE was essentially Windows only - and a predecessor to OLE, at that. |
| 17:56 | | GeekSoldier_ [~Rob@Nightstar-6391.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
| 17:56 | <@Raif> | We ported a large chunk of OLE to the mac specifically for MacXL. |
| 17:57 | <@Raif> | It stands to reason we could have ported DDE too. |
| 17:57 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-3532.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 17:57 | <@Raif> | Way back in the day, perfect feature parity was apparently The Rule. |
| 17:57 | <@Raif> | Now that we've finally killed VB, not so much. |
| 17:58 | <@Vornicus> | Office for Mac never had VB as far as I can tell anyway |
| 17:58 | <@Raif> | We did, just not nearly as extensive as Windows' implementation. |
| 17:58 | <@Vornicus> | aha |
| 17:59 | <@Vornicus> | yeah, I kinda missed Access, it's pretty good for a certain kind of application. |
| 17:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | <Raif> Now that we've finally killed VB, not so much. <-- now if only all those VB devs out there would get the message |
| 17:59 | <@Raif> | Oh, there was holy hell raised when we announced Office 12 for the mac wouldn't support VB at all. |
| 18:00 | <@Raif> | Now we have Applescript, which has two really big advantages: It's way the fuck easier, and you're not embedding code in your documents, so it's impossible to open a document and get a virus. |
| 18:00 | <@Raif> | Take that, windows. |
| 18:01 | | * Vornicus personally dislikes Applescript, too. |
| 18:01 | <@Raif> | (Applescript scripts are external, and you can send them alongside the document, but they don't get embedded like VB macros do) |
| 18:01 | <@Raif> | I agree, it's a gross language. :) |
| 18:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | "so it's impossible to open a document and get a virus" -- until someone finds a buffer overrun exploit :P |
| 18:02 | <@Raif> | But for the purpose of twiddling documents, it does the job, has a near-flat learning curve, and as mentioned above doesn't represent a Gigantic Security Risk. |
| 18:03 | | * Raif truncates frog to 1024 bytes, just to be safe. |
| 18:04 | <@Raif> | What I would like to see is either cocoa bindings or CLR goodness (silverlight?) |
| 18:05 | <@Raif> | But those are both fraught with peril, so it's applescript for now. |
| 18:05 | <@Vornicus> | CLR would be good, I think, if it actually worked everywhere. |
| 18:05 | <@Raif> | That's the trick, isn't it? :) |
| 18:06 | <@Raif> | the problem with CLR is, of course, that we'd once again start embedding macros in the document, and that's bad. |
| 18:06 | <@Vornicus> | true. |
| 18:07 | <@Raif> | cocoa bindings would be better than applescript, except that we now have fairly thoroughly tested applescript compatibility, and since cocoa is also mac-only, it'd be redundant. |
| 18:08 | <@Raif> | And we're not going to kill one for the other, because there was Great Whining when we killed VB, and there were all kinds of good reasons to do that. |
| 18:08 | <@Raif> | Anyway, I'm to work. :) |
| 18:08 | <@Vornicus> | have fun. |
| 18:08 | <@Raif> | Et tu. |
| 18:12 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:38 | | GeekSoldier_ is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 19:23 | < GeekSoldier> | hehe. c++, makes c bigger but returns the old value. |
| 19:33 | | * MyCatVerbs applauds. |
| 20:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 20:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...I have a driver here that, when it attempts to build, breaks the kernel build system. |
| 20:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | And by 'breaks', I mean 'it invokes fixdep, which then segfaults' |
| 20:17 | <@Vornicus> | sweet. |
| 20:17 | < GeekSoldier> | that is Awesome! |
| 20:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have no idea how to fix this. |
| 20:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | I mean, it's not even the driver invoking fixdep. |
| 20:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | It says to the kernel build system "I am a module. Please build me." |
| 20:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | And the build system goes, "Ok. CC[M] cavium_main OH MY GOD *blargh*" |
| 20:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 20:27 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 20:27 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 21:11 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 21:15 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-6391.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Not that there is anything wrong with that] |
| 21:51 | < Janus> | Hum... is there any standardized way to build a model mesh thingy, and stick it in OpenGL's vertex hole? |
| 21:53 | <@Vornicus> | Depending on what you're doing, the Quake 2 model format is very capable. |
| 21:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's nonskeletal, though ;.; |
| 21:54 | <@Vornicus> | It is? I thought it did skeletons. |
| 21:55 | <@Vornicus> | Especially considering that it manages smooth animation. |
| 21:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...no it doesn't! |
| 21:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | The animations are blatantly framed. |
| 21:56 | <@Vornicus> | Quake 1's are blatantly framed. |
| 21:56 | < Janus> | Skeletons, can't those be done by just popping matrice on top of eachother..? |
| 21:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Quake 2 was the one with the cyborg enemies that have a spike on one arm and a hammer on the other, right? |
| 21:57 | <@Vornicus> | Yeah |
| 21:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Janus: different terminology, Skeletal animation == the mesh is linked to an underlying set of bones, animations are specified as bone motions in such a way that model animation framerate == game framerate |
| 21:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | And if done right you can also programatically alter bone positions at runtime. |
| 21:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Non-skeletal animation builds each frame of animation into the model as a seperate pose, which looks nasty. |
| 21:58 | <@Vornicus> | Note that the process of /using/ skeletal models is as you describe. |
| 22:00 | <@Vornicus> | Quake 2 /definitely/ uses a skeletal model. |
| 22:01 | <@Vornicus> | Quake 1 has Nast in it, especially if you watch, uh |
| 22:01 | <@Vornicus> | Scrags, I think they are. |
| 22:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Huh. I could have sworn I remembered Q2 as being non-skeletal. |
| 22:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah well. |
| 22:02 | <@Vornicus> | It's not ragdoll though. --but then, ragdoll didn't exist back then. |
| 22:05 | <@Vornicus> | Also for some asstacular reason Q2 changes my key repeat settings and doesn't change them back when it's done. |
| 22:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ew |
| 22:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which build are you using |
| 22:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 22:08 | <@Vornicus> | I can't tell. |
| 22:13 | <@Vornicus> | (Scrags are the ones that jump, right?) |
| 22:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | (no idea, it's been 6 years since I played Q1 and I think 10 since I played it singleplayer) |
| 22:14 | <@Vornicus> | (wow.) |
| 22:14 | <@Vornicus> | the gameplay is pretty good, but the story just doesn't fucking make sense. |
| 22:15 | <@Vornicus> | Also they like using big words to make it sound creepy. |
| 22:15 | <@Vornicus> | They did much better with Q2. |
| 22:15 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Jouets de Dieu, jouets de jouets, les jouets de me, na?tre Clair enfant voire.] |
| 22:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | The story, AFAIR, is basically the Doom storyline all over again. |
| 22:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Only less sensical, which takes some doing. |
| 22:16 | <@Vornicus> | yeah, that's about right. |
| 22:17 | <@Vornicus> | Well, except that your target is Cthulhu, not the devil. Or... something like that. |
| 22:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Why is that a (wow), anyways? |
| 22:19 | <@Vornicus> | Idunno, I'd sorta expected you to play it once in a while. |
| 22:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...why? |
| 22:20 | <@Vornicus> | Idunno. |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | I mean, if I wanted to play a Quake game, Q2 is Inherently Superior in every way, plus I played so much Q1 in high school that I could probably recreate all of the deathmatch maps and half the singleplayer maps from memory. |
| 22:20 | <@Vornicus> | Heh |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | And Descent is better than either of them. |
| 22:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 22:53 | | * ToxicFrog finds a colorization patch for Metroid II |
| 22:53 | <@Vornicus> | If you can find one that makes everything less garishly huge, that'd be great. |
| 22:54 | <@Vornicus> | :P |
| 22:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | "less garishly huge"? |
| 22:55 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 22:55 | <@Vornicus> | Metroid II suffers from the inability to show a whole horizontal or vertical corridor in one screen height/width |
| 22:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 22:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Quite apart from screen size, it doesn't have enough memory to buffer that much |
| 22:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | The tilebuffer is, I think, one tile border around the screen and that's it. It constantly swaps tiles in from ROM as you move, which is why the select glitch works. |
| 22:57 | <@Vornicus> | select glitch? |
| 22:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | By pressing select (which switches weapons) on the right frame, you can open up holes in the scenery. |
| 22:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Some people on TASvideos worked out the exact mechanics: once in every four frames, pressing select causes it to fail to load tiles from ROM into the tilebuffer, and it ends up re-using whatever was there before. |
| 22:59 | <@Vornicus> | ....extreme madness. |
| 22:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | (ie, whatever was just offscreen behind you) |
| 23:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | With mad skills (or frame-advance) this basically lets you open holes in the level at will. |
| 23:00 | <@Vornicus> | mass insanity. |
| 23:01 | | * Vornicus still wants to see the mm3456 run! |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's been some speculation that this could be used to get a sub-25-minute run. |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sadly, you have to kill all 47 metroids. |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can reach the Queen with <46 kills, but if you haven't killed them all (even if the counter is down to 1) it won't spawn. |
| 23:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Similarly, you can reach the exit without ever fighting the queen, but unless you've killed all 47 metroids - counter at 0 isn't enough, they have to actually be killed one by one - the exit sequence won't trigger. |
| 23:03 | <@Vornicus> | wait, you can futz the counter without killing the metroids? |
| 23:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Otherwise we'd be seeing a 5-minute run along the same lines as the wtftastic Circle of the Moon run. |
| 23:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's not clear to me whether that's possible without cheating. |
| 23:04 | <@Vornicus> | Ah |
| 23:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | I do know that people have visited the queen with the counter at 1 but without killing the metroids and it hasn't spawned. |
| 23:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | (this makes Metroid II much less lazy about these things than Zelda OoT, incidentally) |
| 23:05 | <@Vornicus> | How is Zelda OoT lazy about it? |
| 23:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | All you need to access Ganon's Fortress is the Spirit and Shadow medallions. |
| 23:07 | <@Vornicus> | aha. |
| 23:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can't entirely skip the rest of the game, but you can skip large chunks and, IIRC, skip the Water, Forest, and Fire boss fights entirely. |
| 23:09 | <@Vornicus> | Can you glitch into the Temple of Time? |
| 23:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | And when you show up at the fortress, all six sages, including the three who are still imprisoned, show up and lightbridge you to the fortress. |
| 23:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | At which point it's time for a confusing wallclipping glitch that lets you skip the Trials. |
| 23:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | If so, no-one's found out how yet. |
| 23:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | So lots of time is spent getting the Spiritual Stones./ |
| 23:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | .... |
| 23:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://www.jaytheham.com/zc/oot.php?page=ootmc018 |
| 23:14 | <@Vornicus> | madness. |
| 23:17 | | * Vornicus is always surprised when he sees the kinds of glitches that show up in games. |
| --- Log closed Thu May 10 00:00:18 2007 |