| --- Log opened Tue May 08 00:00:21 2007 |
| 00:19 | | ToxicFrog|wr0k is now known as ToxicFrog |
| 01:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | local count = struct.unpack(data, "@0 u2") |
| 01:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | local offsets = { struct.unpack(data, "@2 u%d", count) } |
| 01:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...wait, no, that's sick and wrong |
| 01:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | (data, "@2 %du4", count) |
| 02:39 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 02:42 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29761.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 02:44 | | ReivSLEP is now known as Reiver |
| 02:52 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29761.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 02:52 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 02:53 | | Vornicus is now known as IanMusgrave |
| 03:05 | <@Raif> | ... |
| 03:05 | | * Raif reads the backscroll. |
| 03:05 | <@Raif> | Apparently, I'm ubergay? |
| 03:05 | <@IanMusgrave> | Evidently. |
| 03:05 | <@IanMusgrave> | I feel sorry for Cheeks. |
| 03:06 | <@Raif> | At first I thought pi had fucked with my client again. |
| 03:06 | <@Raif> | But then I realized that dude was just some jackass, and I was pleased. |
| 04:01 | <@Pi> | |
| 04:03 | | Reiver is now known as ReivClass |
| 04:13 | | McM[laptop] [~mcmartin@Nightstar-22157.googlewifi.com] has joined #code |
| 04:13 | < McM[laptop]> | One of these days I'm going to have to just write a fully generic multimap class in Python. |
| 04:42 | | mcmartin__ [~mcmartin@Nightstar-22157.googlewifi.com] has joined #code |
| 04:42 | | McM[laptop] [~mcmartin@Nightstar-22157.googlewifi.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 04:57 | | mcmartin__ [~mcmartin@Nightstar-22157.googlewifi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 05:31 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-6608.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 05:31 | | mode/#code [+o McMartin] by ChanServ |
| 05:48 | | IanMusgrave is now known as Vornicus |
| 05:54 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-6608.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: brb] |
| 06:32 | | ReivClass is now known as Reiver |
| 06:34 | | Syloq [Syloq@NetAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 06:57 | <@jerith> | AnnoDomini: Further to the "professional" discussion of last night: Use source control. |
| 06:58 | <@jerith> | In fact, use source control for *everything*. |
| 06:58 | <@AnnoDomini> | Source control? |
| 06:59 | <@jerith> | Subversion. Or darcs. Or perforce. Or something. |
| 06:59 | <@jerith> | Not VSS. |
| 06:59 | <@jerith> | I like subversion. It's not perfect, but it does the job. |
| 07:00 | <@jerith> | And it's very easy to set up and use. |
| 07:00 | <@jerith> | Although you really need a Linux box for it. |
| 07:00 | <@AnnoDomini> | But what do they do? |
| 07:00 | <@jerith> | s/Linux/$unixalike_of_choice/ |
| 07:00 | <@Vornicus> | Source Control: approximately, a file system designed to store all the revisions made to every file in it, ever. |
| 07:00 | <@jerith> | Yes, that. |
| 07:00 | <@jerith> | You make a change, you check it in. |
| 07:01 | <@jerith> | If it breaks something, you roll back to a previous version. |
| 07:01 | <@jerith> | If you want to do something a little more experimental, you branch the code and work in the branch. |
| 07:01 | <@jerith> | Then, when the branch is stable, you merge it back into the main tree. |
| 07:02 | <@jerith> | Also, if you can get your hands on it, read The Pragmatic Programmer. |
| 07:02 | <@jerith> | In fact, that should be required reading for anyone who touches a compiler/interpreter. |
| 07:02 | | * Vornicus agrees. |
| 07:06 | | * jerith goes to eat breakfast and then work. |
| 07:06 | < Reiver> | bye jerith! |
| 07:10 | <@Raif> | On VSS: There are known corruption bugs that were left unfixed in favor of more feature work. |
| 07:11 | <@Raif> | Not something you really want in production... or even really near any of your data. :) |
| 07:11 | <@Raif> | Subversion is the best I've seen so far, but I haven't tried perforce yet. |
| 07:18 | <@Pi> | Yes you have. |
| 07:18 | <@Pi> | At MS it's called "Source Depot" |
| 07:19 | <@Raif> | I thought perforce was only loosely based on SD. |
| 07:19 | <@Raif> | Or rather the reverse. |
| 07:20 | <@Raif> | We acquired perforce and then made a whole bunch of modifications... or something. |
| 07:20 | <@Pi> | MS has a license to use and modify perforce (but not distribute). So it's modified. A LOT. |
| 07:20 | <@Raif> | Yeah... |
| 07:20 | <@Raif> | I dunno what the differences are, though, so I treat them as seperate. |
| 07:21 | <@Raif> | though I really like "sd revert -a" .:) |
| 07:21 | <@Raif> | I use that a lot. |
| 07:21 | <@Pi> | For example, there is no publically available source control anywhere that could scale to the size of Office or Windows. But SD does it. Barely. |
| 07:22 | <@Raif> | Checkpoints are also quite nice... I'm not sure SVN has that. |
| 07:22 | <@Raif> | It still bugs me that no source control ever seems to do file branching to my satisfaction. |
| 07:23 | <@Pi> | It's not a trivial problem. |
| 07:23 | <@Raif> | No, but they've had 20 years to work it out. :) |
| 07:23 | <@Raif> | "they" being the collective writers of source control software. |
| 07:24 | | * Pi shugs |
| 07:24 | <@Raif> | It's not a big deal outside the work environment. |
| 07:24 | <@Pi> | They created CVS and VSS, remember. |
| 07:24 | <@Pi> | How much faith do you really have in Them? |
| 07:24 | <@Raif> | CVS has excuses, same as sendmail. |
| 07:24 | <@Raif> | That being it was designed for a different era. |
| 07:25 | <@Raif> | It needs to die now. |
| 07:25 | <@Raif> | VSS has no excuse at all... |
| 07:25 | <@Raif> | Except that they had shitty management and, last I checked, 0.5 developers working on it. |
| 07:26 | <@Raif> | However, if MS could create the awesomeness that is MSVS, you'd think they'd be able to build a better source control system. |
| 07:28 | <@Pi> | My biggest complaint about SD/build is that it actively repels MSVS integration. Larry just blogged about the same thing. |
| 07:29 | <@Raif> | I'll have to read that tomorrow whilst waiting for one of my 45 minute builds. |
| 07:29 | <@Raif> | (I don't care if Excel is big, 45 minutes is just fucking ridiculous)( |
| 07:29 | <@Raif> | And that's on a quad core. |
| 07:29 | <@Pi> | |
| 07:30 | <@Pi> | 2.5 hours for audio/video test. |
| 07:30 | <@Raif> | That's just for the app. It takes around 9 hours for the suite, at the most basic settings. :P |
| 07:30 | <@Pi> | (This is not the dev code. Just the test branch) |
| 07:30 | | * Raif shrugs. |
| 07:31 | <@Raif> | Excel was at a 15 minute build time about 2 months ago. |
| 07:31 | <@Pi> | I've become pretty good at pushing to particular dirs and building only what I need. |
| 07:31 | <@Raif> | Now we build it 3 times because the UI code is all spaghettied in with the file loading code, so to build a file converter we have to build the entire app with the UI stubbed out. |
| 07:31 | <@Raif> | It's painful. |
| 07:32 | | * Pi points and laughs at Excel. |
| 07:33 | <@Raif> | Said the man in Windows division. |
| 07:34 | <@Raif> | The part that kills me is that I have to nuke and rebuild the entire app for a string change, or any other UI tweak (I had to move buttons around in a dialog once... that took an entire day) |
| 07:35 | <@Raif> | I expect if we managed to tear the UI out of the rest of the app we could save a good half year of development on the next cycle, and that's counting the time spent pulling out the damn UI. :P |
| 07:36 | <@Raif> | But I shall go to bed now, and dream my pipe dreams and remind myself of the times where we didn't have the quad cores to make life less painful. |
| 07:36 | <@Raif> | Nini. |
| 07:43 | | MahalGone is now known as Mahal |
| 07:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 08:00 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-17628.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 08:00 | | mode/#code [+o Thaqui] by ChanServ |
| 08:49 | | KBot [~karma.bot@Nightstar-29460.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 08:50 | | KarmaBot [~karma.bot@Nightstar-29761.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 08:50 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29761.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 08:50 | | KBot is now known as KarmaBot |
| 08:56 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29460.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 08:56 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 10:26 | | Pi [~sysop@Nightstar-6875.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 10:28 | | Mahal is now known as MahalBed |
| 10:37 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 10:37 | | AD[Prog] [AD_Prog_@62.108.180.ns-11862] has joined #Code |
| 10:38 | < AD[Prog]> | Mhm. Mild disapproval at the complete lack of error checking (the exceptions don't crash the app, though), but that was expected. Homework done. |
| 10:39 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has joined #Code |
| 10:39 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 11:39 | | AD[Prog] [AD_Prog_@62.108.180.ns-11862] has quit [Quit: Awaaaaay!] |
| 11:59 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 12:24 | | Pi [~sysop@Nightstar-6875.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 12:24 | | mode/#code [+o Pi] by ChanServ |
| 13:00 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 13:01 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 13:15 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-17628.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #code [Leaving] |
| 14:36 | | * gnolam snorts in disgust. |
| 14:37 | <@Vornicus> | ? |
| 14:38 | | ToxicFrog is now known as ToxicFrog|wr0k |
| 14:39 | <@gnolam> | Developer egos again. |
| 14:39 | <@gnolam> | Eh, screw that project. |
| 14:39 | <@Vornicus> | Ah |
| 14:39 | | * gnolam unsubscribes from the developer list and makes a mental note not to send them another patch in his life. |
| 14:41 | <@ToxicFrog|wr0k> | Which project? |
| 14:41 | <@gnolam> | It's better unnamed. |
| 14:41 | <@Pi> | Y'knwo, I've wanted to do that before. But I'd stop getting paid if I did. |
| 14:43 | | * gnolam snerks. |
| 14:45 | <@AnnoDomini> | What, exactly, did they do to deserve your misanthropy, gnolam? |
| 15:03 | <@gnolam> | The usual. |
| 15:03 | <@gnolam> | Their way is the Only Right Way, and you have to burn the heretics who dare criticize it. |
| 15:06 | <@Pi> | Looks like it's time for your fireproof armor and patented Heretic Extinguisher. |
| 15:07 | <@gnolam> | What makes it funny (well, besides the frothing-at-the-mouth PM I got) is that they have an extreme shortage of developers right now - and I was pointing out /why/ that was and what they had to change. |
| 15:09 | <@Pi> | Yeah, people don't like that. |
| 15:09 | <@gnolam> | Apparently not. |
| 15:23 | | Reiv [~reaverta@IRCop.Nightstar.Net] has joined #Code |
| 15:24 | | Reiver [~reaverta@IRCop.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Local kill by Reiv (Ghostbusting.)] |
| 15:24 | | Reiv is now known as Reiver |
| 16:11 | | GS[Away] [~Rob@Nightstar-4094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 17:15 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:20 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 17:49 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 17:49 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 17:49 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 17:51 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-4094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
| 17:56 | | GeekSoldier_ [~Rob@Nightstar-3532.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
| 17:57 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-4094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 18:00 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 18:00 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 18:02 | | ToxicFrog|wr0k [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 18:03 | | ToxicFrog is now known as ToxicFrog|wr0k |
| 18:03 | | GeekSoldier_ is now known as GeekSoldier |
| 18:20 | | pyros [~pyros@Nightstar-1132.asfd.broadband.ntl.com] has joined #Code |
| 18:31 | | pyros [~pyros@Nightstar-1132.asfd.broadband.ntl.com] has left #Code [] |
| 18:38 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:47 | | MahalBed is now known as Mahal |
| 20:34 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 20:46 | < Janus> | Haha, just finished Chapter 9 of the Red Book. Now that I know how textures work, I believe I'm ready to start some threedy stuff~ |
| 20:47 | <@Vornicus> | Woot. |
| 20:47 | <@Vornicus> | now teach me. |
| 20:47 | <@Vornicus> | actually don't, I'm going to bed. |
| 20:47 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 20:47 | < Janus> | *phew* |
| 20:48 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Hee, thought you'd say that. |
| 20:58 | | GeekSoldier is now known as GS[Away] |
| 20:58 | | * GS[Away] is now away - Reason : Sleeping |
| 21:00 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Jouets de Dieu, jouets de jouets, les jouets de me, na?tre Clair enfant voire.] |
| 21:07 | <@gnolam> | What is it about texturing that confuses you? |
| 21:56 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 21:59 | | Chalcedon [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 21:59 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 22:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 22:17 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 22:17 | | * ToxicFrog|wr0k eyespins |
| 22:17 | <@ToxicFrog|wr0k> | Now there are other modders saying that GPG should hire me. I wonder if I should tell them we've already discussed that... |
| 22:18 | <@ToxicFrog|wr0k> | Janus: word of advice: use message-passing threads, using pthreads directly is pain~ |
| 22:18 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I will return!] |
| 22:54 | <@AnnoDomini> | Okay, I've got a problem with Java again. I want to import log4j. I have it in "/lib/log4j.jar". What do I do to make the bloody thing find it? |
| 22:54 | <@jerith> | You need to put it in your classpath or something. |
| 22:54 | <@jerith> | I'm a bit blurry on the details and about to collapse into bed. |
| 22:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | Never mind. I've found the answer. |
| 22:56 | <@jerith> | :-) |
| 22:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | I was naming it wrong. |
| 22:58 | <@gnolam> | Jerith - helping through ESP since 1837. |
| 23:30 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29460.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 23:31 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29460.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 23:31 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 23:50 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| --- Log closed Wed May 09 00:00:21 2007 |