| --- Log opened Fri Apr 27 00:00:03 2007 |
| 00:06 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyOut |
| 00:06 | | MahalGone [~Mahal@Nightstar-12512.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 00:07 | < Takyoji> | oh.. which reminds me |
| 00:08 | < Takyoji> | Nothing.. I got something that wasn't working to work now |
| 00:09 | | Takyoji [~Takyoji@Nightstar-25812.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 00:28 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-12512.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 00:28 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 00:33 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-12512.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
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| 00:41 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 00:52 | <@gnolam> | In other news, Matlab is a dirty little whore. |
| 00:52 | | * gnolam picks up his crossbow and goes hunting for the people responsible for M code. |
| 00:53 | <@McMartin> | M code? |
| 00:53 | <@McMartin> | Oh, Matlab. |
| 00:54 | <@gnolam> | Quite possibly the world's most inconsistent language. |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | It's the modern APL >_> |
| 01:17 | <@gnolam> | It's the modern industry standard /pain in the ass/, that's what it is. |
| 01:17 | <@McMartin> | Well, there's FORTRAN. |
| 01:20 | <@gnolam> | Languages your father programmed in on punch cards do not qualify as "modern". ;-) |
| 01:20 | <@McMartin> | I'll have you know my father's work was done on VT100s in a Prolog dialect. |
| 01:22 | <@gnolam> | Modern! |
| 01:23 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. That reminds me to try to worm out some more BESK documentation from a friend at the local computer museum. |
| 01:23 | <@gnolam> | Time to revive the emulator project, methinks. |
| 01:24 | <@McMartin> | BESK? |
| 01:25 | <@gnolam> | I have a facsimile of the '56 coding manual, but it omits certain crucial technical details. |
| 01:25 | <@gnolam> | McMartin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BESK |
| 01:26 | <@gnolam> | If nothing else, I think I can acquire some DataSAAB D20 stuff. |
| 01:26 | <@gnolam> | That machine was schweet. |
| 01:30 | <@gnolam> | Or maybe the MEDELA? http://www.lysator.liu.se/history/images/Datasaab-MEDELA.jpg |
| 01:43 | | ChalcyOut is now known as Chalcedon |
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| 01:54 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
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| 02:21 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyAFK |
| 02:29 | | Syloq is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 02:37 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 02:38 | | Forj is now known as ChalcyLaptop |
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| 02:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ahahahaha! |
| 02:48 | | * ToxicFrog gets the plastic shell off his CF-110 at last |
| 02:51 | | * ChalcyLaptop requests assistance beating XP into submission |
| 02:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Now I just need to get the /metal/ shell off, then install a Linux that does nothing but start X11 and then xawtv and then sit there. |
| 02:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | What's the trouble, Chalcy? |
| 02:54 | < ChalcyLaptop> | it won't let me create any partitions |
| 02:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | The XP installer? |
| 02:55 | < ChalcyLaptop> | yeah |
| 02:55 | | * ToxicFrog can't really help you there; I always partitioned ahead of time with gparted (a liveCD, if necessary) |
| 02:55 | < ChalcyLaptop> | or rather, it wont let me delete the existing one so that I can create more because it copied files into it |
| 02:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Due to not trusting the XP partitioner to find its ass with both hands, a preprogrammed GPS unit and an A* search algorithm. |
| 02:56 | < ChalcyLaptop> | unfortunately, I don't know how to do that |
| 02:56 | < ChalcyLaptop> | he |
| 02:56 | < ChalcyLaptop> | *h |
| 02:56 | < ChalcyLaptop> | what is gparted? |
| 02:57 | < ChalcyLaptop> | additional complication: the drive is /really/ full |
| 02:57 | <@McMartin> | A program for doing disc partitioning. |
| 02:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a partition editor. Supports creation, deletion, moving, resizing and other operations. |
| 02:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nondestructive for most operations, too. |
| 02:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Even on NTFS. |
| 02:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a Linux program, but comes in liveCD flavour; cook the CD, boot off it, and partition as you see fit. |
| 02:59 | < ChalcyLaptop> | but it also comes in standard cd-not require version? |
| 02:59 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I'm not sure where our blank cds are and I'm not sure my CD drive reads them anyway |
| 03:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, but this only really helps if the computer already has a Linux install. |
| 03:01 | | * ChalcyLaptop arg |
| 03:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | It also comes in liveUSB flavour, if your system can boot from USB. |
| 03:01 | < ChalcyLaptop> | hrm |
| 03:01 | < ChalcyLaptop> | the file |
| 03:01 | < ChalcyLaptop> | it's not huge is it? |
| 03:02 | < ChalcyLaptop> | our usbkey is only 128mb |
| 03:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's 29MB zipped, so it should fit. |
| 03:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=115843&package_id=195292 |
| 03:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Bear in mind that I have never tried the liveUSB, only the liveCD. |
| 03:03 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-17830.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:03 | | mode/#code [+o Thaqui] by ChanServ |
| 03:04 | | * ChalcyLaptop accepts that this advice is without warranty :) |
| 03:05 | | * ToxicFrog always keeps a few DVD+RWs on hand for burning stuff like this, so... |
| 03:05 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
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| 03:05 | < ChalcyLaptop> | TF, I still can't find half my cleaning stuff |
| 03:05 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 03:06 | < ChalcyLaptop> | bah |
| 03:08 | < ChalcyLaptop> | where the bloody hell has my bios gone |
| 03:08 | | * ChalcyLaptop shake fist at computer |
| 03:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | o.O |
| 03:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's bricked? |
| 03:10 | <@McMartin> | That's not XP |
| 03:10 | < ChalcyLaptop> | its there but I can't remember what the key is, and for some reason I can't spot it. |
| 03:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | (gnah. I need more desk space to work on this. Enough room for a second monitor and keyboard at least) |
| 03:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh. You mean you can't remember how to access the BIOS configurator. |
| 03:10 | < ChalcyLaptop> | yes |
| 03:10 | < ChalcyLaptop> | ah ha |
| 03:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Del, F1, F2, F12, F8 and F10 are traditional. |
| 03:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Albeit not all at once. |
| 03:11 | < ChalcyLaptop> | it was hiding as set up |
| 03:11 | < ChalcyLaptop> | oooh, ok, I have options now |
| 03:12 | < ChalcyLaptop> | USB FDD, USB CDROM, USB HDD, USB LS120, USB ZIP/MO |
| 03:12 | < ChalcyLaptop> | help? |
| 03:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Floppy disk drive, CD-ROM drive, hard drive, no idea, zipdisk drive, I believe. |
| 03:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have no idea if any of those will boot from a USB stick, though. |
| 03:13 | < ChalcyLaptop> | so what does a usb key ....hrm |
| 03:13 | | * ChalcyLaptop tries to find blank CDs |
| 03:13 | <@McMartin> | USB HDD may mean that the usb key counts as such. |
| 03:14 | <@McMartin> | Unless your core HD is on the USB hub |
| 03:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I'm fairly that all those things aren't plugged in at once. |
| 03:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...are they? |
| 03:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'd guess that those are the devices it /supports/, not necessarily the ones it detects right now? |
| 03:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or do you really have five USB devices of varying flavours connected? |
| 03:16 | < ChalcyLaptop> | no |
| 03:16 | < ChalcyLaptop> | or rather yes to the first, no to the second |
| 03:16 | <@McMartin> | USB keys are generally equivalent to HDDs, I believe. |
| 03:18 | < ChalcyLaptop> | that would make sense |
| 03:18 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I may still go for the safe option having found a blank cd |
| 03:19 | <@McMartin> | nod |
| 03:20 | < ChalcyLaptop> | it's an iso? |
| 03:21 | < ChalcyLaptop> | oh well, at least the connections going at a reasonable speed today |
| 03:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yep. A small one. |
| 03:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=115843&package_id=173828 |
| 03:21 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I'm downloading :) |
| 03:23 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
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| 03:32 | | * ChalcyLaptop frowninate |
| 03:32 | < ChalcyLaptop> | is just burning the iso to CD enough? |
| 03:33 | < ChalcyLaptop> | because if I need nero I'll have to fire up forj's computer, which involves hauling the CRT downstairs and anything else I'll need to download |
| 03:35 | | * ChalcyLaptop feeds TF muffins in an attempt to attract his attention |
| 03:35 | < ChalcyLaptop> | (I'm worrying because this is the only blank CD I can find) |
| 03:36 | <@McMartin> | You can't make a data CD with the .iso on it. |
| 03:36 | <@McMartin> | I'm not sure offhand what the Windows Magic is for that. |
| 03:36 | <@McMartin> | On GNOME it's right-click->Write To Disk. |
| 03:37 | < ChalcyLaptop> | iirc an iso is a CD-image file (for want of a better way of putting it) |
| 03:37 | < ChalcyLaptop> | so it needs to be burnt in a particular way? |
| 03:37 | <@McMartin> | Well |
| 03:37 | <@McMartin> | It's the difference between burning the image directly and making a new image that has a filesystem with one file in it, that file being the image. |
| 03:38 | <@McMartin> | If that's clear? |
| 03:38 | < ChalcyLaptop> | yes |
| 03:38 | < ChalcyLaptop> | the image as a file is not useful, it has to be an image as an image |
| 03:38 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, so I don't know offhand how one distinguishes those cases in XP |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | In XP? You don't. |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | It can only burn files, not images. |
| 03:39 | < ChalcyLaptop> | will Nero do? |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Burning images requires additional software. |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 03:39 | | * ChalcyLaptop hauls down the CRT |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ahahahahahahaha! It boots! |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unfortunately, it boots into SGOS. |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | And refuses to recognize my keyboard. |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | (well, no, it boots into CacheOS. It's that old.) |
| 03:41 | | * ChalcyLaptop offers muffins? |
| 03:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know I have a 2xPS/2->USB adapter somewhere! |
| 03:43 | <@McMartin> | Man, that's hard to parse. |
| 03:44 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I now have 3 machines running...... |
| 03:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, no wonder I can't find it. |
| 03:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's attached to Durandal. |
| 03:45 | | * ToxicFrog rarely has less than 4, is about to go for 5 |
| 03:46 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...and Durandal's keyboard and mouse are inexplicably refusing to work without it |
| 03:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | ;.; |
| 03:48 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 03:48 | < ChalcyLaptop> | arg |
| 03:48 | < ChalcyLaptop> | do I want the bootable CD option? |
| 03:49 | | * ChalcyLaptop is not familiar with nero |
| 03:49 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, I think so. |
| 03:51 | | * ToxicFrog isn't familiar with Nero either, though. |
| 03:51 | < Forj> | no, nm, theres a burn image to disk option |
| 03:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | This stuff kind of Just Works under Linux. |
| 03:51 | <@McMartin> | Well, under GNOME. |
| 03:51 | <@McMartin> | cdrecord is made of spiders. |
| 03:51 | < Forj> | I'm looking foward to having linux |
| 03:51 | | * Forj sigh |
| 03:54 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 03:55 | | * ChalcyLaptop eyes |
| 03:55 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I take it that it's /not/ supposed to tell me 'files already on CD' |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...o.O |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | I thought it was blank? |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: true. |
| 03:55 | < ChalcyLaptop> | it was |
| 03:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although under KDE you have K3B, which will not as slick as Gnome's integrated burning still works well. |
| 03:56 | < ChalcyLaptop> | hang on |
| 03:56 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I need to boot from this cd, don't I? |
| 03:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 03:56 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-2310.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 03:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | (argh, for the love of Cthulhu, how do I get into the BIOS on this thing?) |
| 03:56 | | * ChalcyLaptop offers soup |
| 03:56 | | * ChalcyLaptop reboots computer |
| 03:59 | | * ToxicFrog fires off mail to his dad, who has already installed Linux on one of these things. |
| 04:00 | < ChalcyLaptop> | this is slightly spooky |
| 04:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 04:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Installing Linux on a CF-110? |
| 04:01 | < ChalcyLaptop> | no, just the way it was checking itself, asking for language etc |
| 04:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, it's booting? |
| 04:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | You want spooky, try the ophcrack liveCD. |
| 04:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | "here are the passwords for all the accounts on this machine" |
| 04:02 | < ChalcyLaptop> | o.O |
| 04:02 | < ChalcyLaptop> | ok, now I have a small problem.... |
| 04:02 | < ChalcyLaptop> | the disk is very very full |
| 04:02 | < ChalcyLaptop> | ie, I can't actually resize it usefully |
| 04:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Er. |
| 04:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | I thought you wanted to delete a partition? |
| 04:03 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I did |
| 04:04 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I guess that was a bit dumb? |
| 04:04 | | * ToxicFrog blinkblinks |
| 04:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Have I missed something here? |
| 04:04 | < ChalcyLaptop> | well, no, I didn't want to delete it |
| 04:05 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I simply wanted to erase and reformat |
| 04:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | AIUI, you have a drive with a set of partitions. You want to delete one partition to make room for a new partition full of XP, but the XP installer won't let you. |
| 04:05 | < ChalcyLaptop> | delete falls into a different category |
| 04:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh. |
| 04:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can do that from gparted too. |
| 04:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | And if that's all you want to do it shouldn't matter how full the disk is because you aren't resizing/creating anything. |
| 04:06 | | * ChalcyLaptop nods |
| 04:11 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I have 2 unformatted 4 GB partitions and everything else in a FAT32 partition |
| 04:11 | < ChalcyLaptop> | does this sound about right? |
| 04:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...it sounds weird. |
| 04:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Two -unformatted- 4GB partitions? |
| 04:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | And, ew, fat32. |
| 04:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | What did this system used to be running? |
| 04:12 | < ChalcyLaptop> | well, gparted being gnome, it won't do ntfs |
| 04:13 | < ChalcyLaptop> | dual boot |
| 04:13 | < ChalcyLaptop> | XP/ubuntu |
| 04:13 | < ChalcyLaptop> | and if it's weird, blame Reiver, he suggested ti |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Er. |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | gparted does very well do NTFS. |
| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | It can create and resize NTFS partitions just fine. |
| 04:13 | | * ChalcyLaptop looks again |
| 04:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | This is, in fact, a feature I have relied on greatly in the past and most likely will again in the future. |
| 04:14 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I beg your pardon, I missed that |
| 04:15 | < ChalcyLaptop> | it's now 4GB NTFS, 4GB unformatted and the rest FAT32 |
| 04:16 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I realise that FAT32 isn't an ideal format, however, Reiver said that both ubuntu and XP could read it. |
| 04:16 | | * ChalcyLaptop doesn't really know who can read what |
| 04:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | FAT32 can be read and written by pretty much anything, but is also terribly fragile and has many severe limitations. |
| 04:16 | < ChalcyLaptop> | this is one of the things I am trying to learn |
| 04:16 | < ChalcyLaptop> | can you suggest an alternative? |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you'll be installing windows on it, NTFS; ubuntu will read and write it just fine with some minor setup. |
| 04:17 | < ChalcyLaptop> | ok |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you aren't installing windows on it but just want to access it from both windows and linux, ext2 or ext3 or NTFS. |
| 04:18 | < ChalcyLaptop> | what are ext2 and 3? |
| 04:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ext2, the Second Extended Filesystem, is (or was, rather) the default filesystem for most Linux distros. |
| 04:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ext3 has supplanted it for most purposes, and is Ext2 plus journaling. |
| 04:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which means improved performance in some circumstances, decreased performance in others, and no need for disk checks if you have a power outage or something. |
| 04:20 | < ChalcyLaptop> | handy |
| 04:20 | < ChalcyLaptop> | windows reads it? |
| 04:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ext3 also has the useful properties that ext2 drivers will support it fine, just without using the journaling features. |
| 04:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Windows doesn't read it out of the box, but there are free ext2 drivers for 2k and XP. |
| 04:21 | | * ChalcyLaptop nods |
| 04:21 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I think I'll go with NTFS, I have an assignment I need to get finished by midweek, so I don't have time to fiddle |
| 04:21 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 04:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | In that case, ubuntu should mount it read-only by default, and installing ntfs-3g for read-write support is a fairly simple task. |
| 04:22 | < ChalcyLaptop> | by the time I'm installing ubuntu, I'll have plenty of time to fiddle |
| 04:22 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I remember forj having an easy time locating and instaling things for ubuntu |
| 04:23 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 04:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | As long as you use Synaptic and not apt-get or add/remove |
| 04:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've been fiddling with xubuntu, but I'm thinking I'm going to ditch it...it's missing some configuration stuff I've come to expect from Fedora. |
| 04:27 | < ChalcyLaptop> | we happen to have a ubuntu disk and I figure I need to start somewhere |
| 04:29 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 04:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it's Xubuntu I was playing with, Ubuntu probably has some different stuff. |
| 04:31 | <@McMartin> | What's Xubuntu? XFCE-based? |
| 04:31 | <@McMartin> | Yay twm? |
| 04:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | XFCE, yes. |
| 04:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's nice, except that it insists on treating the winkey as a modifier rather than as iso_level_3_shift |
| 04:32 | | * McMartin was Noticably Unimpressed with XFCE. |
| 04:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which means I can't bind yakuake to it, and it all goes downhill from there. |
| 04:32 | <@McMartin> | Mmm. I use it as Compose. |
| 04:32 | <@McMartin> | yakuake? |
| 04:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | I rarely need Compose. |
| 04:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | I always need Yakuake. |
| 04:33 | <@McMartin> | What is Yakuake? |
| 04:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a Quake console for the desktop, except instead of containing a Quake console it contains a set of tabbed bash shells. |
| 04:33 | <@McMartin> | Ah, I see. |
| 04:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hit the key, it drops down from the top of the screen; repeat and it vanishes again. |
| 04:33 | | * McMartin types accented characters a fair amount. |
| 04:34 | | * ToxicFrog has been idly fiddling with making a cygwin/windows equivalent, probably by abusing LiteStep's powers |
| 04:34 | <@McMartin> | Apparently the GNOME equivalent is "Tilda". |
| 04:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | ..there's a Gnome equivalent? |
| 04:34 | <@McMartin> | Wiki says so. |
| 04:34 | <@McMartin> | It's apparently called "Tilda". |
| 04:34 | <@McMartin> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilda_%28software%29 |
| 04:34 | | * ToxicFrog installed yakuake after scouring the length and breadth of the repos for a GNOME counterpart and not finding one |
| 04:35 | | * ChalcyLaptop eyes |
| 04:35 | < ChalcyLaptop> | now it's frozen |
| 04:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | o.O |
| 04:36 | < ChalcyLaptop> | it's obviously rebooted, but it's got stuck at press any key to boot from cd |
| 04:36 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I press a key and nothing happens |
| 04:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Is this the XP CD, or still gparted, or... |
| 04:37 | <@McMartin> | Sounds like the Ubuntu LiveCD. |
| 04:37 | < ChalcyLaptop> | xp |
| 04:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: in my case, it worked fine until installed, at which point it hung at 'running local init scripts' on boot |
| 04:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which is why I tried xubuntu this time instead of ubuntu. |
| 04:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, why were you unimpressed with xfce? |
| 04:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Gnar. Tilda is in the repos. I installed god knows how many MB of KDE libraries for nothing! |
| 04:39 | <@McMartin> | XFCE is too minimal for my tastes, and IIRC its terminals weren't tabbed. |
| 04:39 | <@McMartin> | Some other app I used didn't react the way I expected, too, but for the life of me I can't remember which one it was now. |
| 04:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yakuake (and/or Tilda) makes the tabbedness of its xterms irrelevant, so. |
| 04:40 | <@McMartin> | True enough. |
| 04:40 | <@McMartin> | It might have been UTF-8 wackiness. |
| 04:40 | <@McMartin> | nfrotz, etc. |
| 04:41 | | * McMartin still has issues with nfrotz on terminals that aren't gnome-terminal, though xterm mostly handles it now. |
| 04:45 | | * ChalcyLaptop strangles her computer |
| 04:46 | < ChalcyLaptop> | IDE-0 refers to the actual drive, not the partition, yes? |
| 04:46 | < ChalcyLaptop> | 0 |
| 04:47 | < Vornicus-Latens> | IDE-0 might not even refer to the drive at all, iirc - it may instead mean the /bus/ |
| 04:47 | < ChalcyLaptop> | the bus connects to the drive? |
| 04:47 | < Vornicus-Latens> | The bus connects to several drives |
| 04:48 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Can, anyway |
| 04:48 | < ChalcyLaptop> | well, changing it isn't going to help me boot given I have one drive |
| 04:48 | < Vornicus-Latens> | True - though, note that CD drives are also on those buses |
| 04:49 | | * ChalcyLaptop tries installing xp again |
| 04:49 | < ChalcyLaptop> | thats labled differently in the bio |
| 04:49 | < ChalcyLaptop> | *bios |
| 04:51 | < Vornicus-Latens> | ok |
| 04:51 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Idunno then |
| 04:51 | | * Vornicus-Latens gives Chalcy a stoatburger. |
| 04:51 | < ChalcyLaptop> | well it installed because there's a whole lot of space gone in that partition |
| 04:51 | | * ChalcyLaptop nrom stoatburger |
| 04:58 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 05:24 | < ReivZzz> | I reccomended FAT32 to Chalcy because at the time I was under the impression this was a really-needs-to-work-completely-out-of-the-box setup. |
| 05:24 | < ReivZzz> | Further, the age of the computer means the most likely source of filesystem errors is liable to be a hard drive failure. >.> |
| 05:24 | | * ChalcyLaptop hug a ReivZzz |
| 05:26 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| 05:28 | < Reiver> | Also if /I/ was going to be providing tech support, Ext2 would have been inconvinient (Needing to be set up /before/ the primary OS could function properly), and I have noclue about Linux. >.> |
| 05:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, if it's running XP, either FAT32 or NTFS will work on that 'out of the box' and NTFS is far less error prone. |
| 05:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | As far as ext2 goes, I specified /if you won't be installing windows on it/ |
| 05:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can't install windows on an extfs partition in the first place. |
| 05:33 | < ChalcyLaptop> | ok, how do I direct windows to put stuff on the other partition? |
| 05:33 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I have aquired TweakUI |
| 05:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Umm. How do you mean "put stuff"? |
| 05:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Like, put parts of itself like documents & settings on it? |
| 05:34 | < ChalcyLaptop> | my documents etc |
| 05:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeaaah. As far as I'm aware, there's only two ways to do this: |
| 05:35 | < ChalcyLaptop> | standard folders and assorted places it hides things I might want to access from linux |
| 05:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | - configure it before installing using a tool like nlite and burn a custom CS |
| 05:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | *CD |
| 05:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | - dig up a tool that can create true symlinks on NTFS filesystems, move the stuff over very carefully and use that |
| 05:35 | < ChalcyLaptop> | or don't put anything in my documents in the first place? |
| 05:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, yes, that's the policy I follow - but some things store their configuration files etc in there and you can't change that. |
| 05:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, if all you're worried about is getting at them from linux - as stated earlier it'll read ntfs out of the box and read/write with only minor adjustments. |
| 05:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | So you can set up symlinks for easy access from linux and you're good to go. |
| 05:36 | | * ChalcyLaptop starts to think she should have gone to 2 partitions |
| 05:37 | | * ChalcyLaptop nods |
| 05:37 | < ChalcyLaptop> | thanks TF |
| 05:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...how many partitions do you have? |
| 05:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | You will need a seperate one when the time comes to install ubuntu... |
| 05:38 | < ChalcyLaptop> | 3 |
| 05:38 | < ChalcyLaptop> | XP, ubuntu, files |
| 05:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 05:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | (you may want a swap partition in there as well before installing ubuntu, but if so it'll be easy to add with gparted) |
| 05:41 | | * ChalcyLaptop nods |
| 05:41 | < ChalcyLaptop> | what would a swap partition do? |
| 05:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | The same thing the swapfile does under windows: allows the system to use hard drive space to fake physical memory when it runs out of true RAM. |
| 05:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although Linux does support swapfiles, using dedicated swap partitions results in improved performance because they cannot fragment. |
| 05:44 | < ChalcyLaptop> | I was about to ask why a swap partiton |
| 05:44 | < ChalcyLaptop> | thats a good reason |
| 05:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | (not that fragmentation is a big deal under extfs anyways, but still) |
| 05:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | There may also have been a time when swapfiles weren't supported and you had to use swap partitions, but I'm not sure of that. |
| 05:46 | | * ChalcyLaptop nods |
| 05:47 | < Vornicus> | I know that back in the day (2002) my Mandrake 8.1 install required that I make a swap partition. |
| 05:49 | | * ToxicFrog dosboxes B@K, finds stuff he didn't notice the first fourteen times he played |
| 05:53 | < Vornicus> | How well does it dosbox? |
| 05:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Perfectly, although it looks like you'll need around 8-10k cycles. |
| 05:55 | < Vornicus> | I should be able to handle that. |
| 05:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | CD music works fine (doesn't repeat, but I know this to be a bug in the game itself), mouse is a bit sluggish but upping the sensitivity in dosbox fixes that, looks great at 1024x768 openGL. |
| 05:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Augh, my brain |
| 05:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I want to execute another cunning hack, which will give B@K repeating CD music |
| 06:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | slep |
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| 06:17 | < Reiver> | Chalcy: TweakUI => My Computer => Special Folders |
| 06:18 | < Reiver> | I reccomend you set your folders up so you have a Program Files etc on it. |
| 06:18 | < Reiver> | This way when you install software later (Which I have failed, alas, to get to default to non-C:), all you need to change in the install path is C to D or G or whatever. |
| 06:19 | < Reiver> | Once you've changed the special folders, you'll then need to manually shift what's already in them over. As for Program Files... shift things that are obviously non-windows. You'll want to leave Weird Stuff alone though, and it's best to clean-install things onto the other drive letter if you can. |
| 06:20 | < Reiver> | It took me about half an hour to rejig everything (I wish you didn't have to do it manually alas), but it's worked fine since. |
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| 08:22 | <@Raif> | I need to play BaK again soon. |
| 08:23 | <@Raif> | And I always liked Betrayal in Antara, even though it was an obvious BaK ripoff. |
| 08:24 | <@Raif> | Reiver: You can't completely redirect Prog Files from C:. There's lots of legacy shit that goes on in there that just depends on it being at the default location. |
| 08:24 | <@Raif> | Though you can come close if you don't mind having mirror copies of some stuff. |
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| 11:00 | | * jerith ponders writing a facebook/gcal interface. |
| 11:00 | <@jerith> | One that will scrape facebook for peoples' birthdays and put them in your calendar. :-) |
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| 12:48 | < ReivOut> | Raif: I don't want to redirect /everything/; but I would like very much to make G:\Program Files\etc my default directory. |
| 12:48 | <@gnolam> | Your default directory for what? |
| 12:49 | < ReivOut> | gnolam: Program files install paths. |
| 12:49 | < ReivOut> | At the moment every program I install, I manually change from C: to G:. |
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| 18:33 | <@Raif> | Reiv: I find the manual change to be the best solution, really. :) Trying to change it programmatically causes enough issues that it's really not worth the trade-off in time spent fixing them. |
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| 18:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Context? |
| 18:42 | <@Raif> | [04:48:10] <ReivOut> Raif: I don't want to redirect /everything/; but I would like very much to make G:\Program Files\etc my default directory. |
| 18:42 | <@Raif> | [04:48:43] <gnolam> Your default directory for what? |
| 18:42 | <@Raif> | [04:49:29] <ReivOut> gnolam: Program files install paths. |
| 18:42 | <@Raif> | [04:49:44] <ReivOut> At the moment every program I install, I manually change from C: to G:. |
| 18:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Changing the %PROGRAMFILES% environment variable might do it. |
| 18:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | But I don't know if that's derived from something deeper in the OS or not. |
| 18:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | I do know you can change it before installing windows given the right software, but I don't know the mechanics of it. |
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| 20:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | The Super Bomberman TAS is insane. |
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| 20:32 | | * ToxicFrog pffs at the SupComm forums |
| 20:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | spiff (on lazy variables): they're not so bad once you understand them |
| 20:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | o (one of the devs): no, they're bad. It seemed like a good idea at the time...you know how it goes. |
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| 23:16 | <@McMartin> | I7 code of the day: "The concept of love is an abstraction in the bedroom." |
| 23:16 | < Lerhir> | What. |
| 23:16 | | * jerith giggles. |
| 23:16 | <@McMartin> | I7 uses multi-token identifiers so that one can write text adventures and logic assertions in roughly the same language. |
| 23:17 | <@McMartin> | It thus ends up closer to Perl than COBOL on the "languages that try to act like human languages" scale. |
| 23:18 | <@McMartin> | I suspect abstractions are a kind of thing that one can THINK ABOUT in that guy's world model. |
| 23:18 | | MahalSlep is now known as Mahal |
| 23:19 | <@jerith> | Does I7 run on real platforms yet? |
| 23:20 | <@jerith> | Or do I still need my Windows box? |
| 23:28 | <@McMartin> | It's run on OpenBSD-based systems since before Windows~ |
| 23:28 | <@McMartin> | But there are versions of the command line tools that use Linux system calls instead of BSD ones now too, yes. |
| 23:29 | <@jerith> | Cool. :-) |
| 23:29 | <@McMartin> | There are also various attempts at incomplete IDEs, but at present the Perl-based script interface is easier. |
| 23:29 | <@McMartin> | ... as long as it does Release right. |
| 23:29 | <@McMartin> | If it doesn't, pester me for the patch thereto. |
| 23:32 | <@McMartin> | You will also probably want to be using nfrotz for testing, and have a Unicode-capable terminal. |
| 23:33 | | * jerith nods. |
| 23:34 | <@jerith> | Cool. I'll check it out when I have some time. |
| 23:34 | <@jerith> | For now, hoever, it's much too late and I should ebbe asleep. |
| 23:34 | <@jerith> | *be |
| 23:34 | <@jerith> | G'night. |
| 23:57 | | Lerhir is now known as AnnoDomini |
| --- Log closed Sat Apr 28 00:00:03 2007 |