| --- Log opened Wed Apr 18 00:00:53 2007 |
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| 02:05 | | * McMartin finishes farming data from SF.net and Freshmeat. |
| 02:05 | <@McMartin> | Confirmed: Java 2nd most popular language for web applications. |
| 02:06 | <@McMartin> | Between PHP (more popular by factor of 2) and Perl (roughly same ballpark as Java). |
| 02:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | That...seems kind of like an apples to oranges comparison, unless they're talking about Java running on the server, in which case all I can say is wtf? |
| 02:09 | <@McMartin> | That would, indeed, be Java running on the server, and, um, hello, WebSphere? Tomcat? SunONE? |
| 02:10 | <@McMartin> | Anything using JSPs, too. |
| 02:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | (in other news: it's good to be a programmer. Ed Video have offered to lend me their 160GB DVR for speedrun recording purposes for two weeks, for free, in exchange for writing a CSV-to-HTML program I can knock off in an afternoon.) |
| 02:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah, good point. |
| 02:10 | <@McMartin> | (Nice) |
| 02:11 | <@McMartin> | Re: Java on the server, of those three it's the only one actually running native code at the time of processing client requests~ |
| 02:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | (they've wanted to make their archive index available online (as static HTML, for now), but it's an MSAccess database) |
| 02:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | (*wanted for quite some time now) |
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| 04:38 | < ReivZzz> | Why did you need a 160GB DVR, TF? |
| 04:39 | < ReivZzz> | As for Java - our university course specifically taught us Java in the name of "It's a bit clumsy compared to modern languages, but you will find it in use". |
| 04:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, but that doesn't mean it isn't woeful to use. |
| 04:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | And using it as introductory language is Stupid and Wrong. |
| 04:40 | <@McMartin> | lolOOP |
| 04:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: by introductory, I mean "introduction to programming", not "introduction to OO" |
| 04:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Start them off on something that doesn't force you into a choice of either incantation teaching, or teaching a large amount of framework and background before they write a line of code. |
| 04:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Use something that lets you teach concepts without the language getting in the way. |
| 04:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Then move on to JAva. |
| 04:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you must. |
| 04:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | As for the DVR - later this summer, I will need to record my System Shock speedrun. |
| 04:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | My choices here, AFAICT, are (1) build a second computer out of spare parts to do the recording; (2) build a second computer out of spare parts to do the playing, and leave the recording to Durandal; (3) borrow a DVR and an S-Video capable monitor and use those. |
| 04:52 | < ReivZzz> | You can't have your main computer do it, I gather |
| 04:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | It can't capture from itself when running DOS games. |
| 04:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's basically mirror dualhead - one to the capture card, one to the monitor - and NTVDM reacts poorly to dualhead. |
| 04:58 | < ReivZzz> | Aha |
| 04:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, Shock and the capture have to be on seperate systems. |
| 04:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Using the DVR isn't actually ideal, because it only does S-Video or RCA out, not VGA. |
| 05:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | So I'll have to dig up an S-V capable monitor from somewhere, or use a TV. |
| 05:00 | < ReivZzz> | Will you be actually playing the speedrun, or is this a Programmer Experiment? |
| 05:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...I'll actually be playing it. |
| 05:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | What would the experiment be? |
| 05:01 | < ReivZzz> | Oh |
| 05:01 | < ReivZzz> | I've heard of speedruns where you have the computer do it all for you. |
| 05:01 | | * ReivZzz ponders SS speedruns. |
| 05:02 | < ReivZzz> | ...You have to pause occasionally to update your inventory and stats, though. |
| 05:03 | <@McMartin> | Frame Advance For The Win. |
| 05:03 | <@McMartin> | Even TASes usually have humans at the controls. |
| 05:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although "at the controls" sometimes means "creating preprogrammed input sequences" |
| 05:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Albeit rarely for the whole game, usually just for especially finicky bits. |
| 05:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | But yes, this will be an actual segmented run of SS1, not a TAS. |
| 05:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, what's this about inventory and stats? It is Shock. My inventory autoupdates and I have no stats to speak of. |
| 05:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although it is annoying that MFD settings aren't saved; that'll cost me another second or so per segment, on top of the 0.5s segment penalty. |
| 05:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | (on the other hand, since the run is almost certainly going to be >1h and probably >2h, quibbling about seconds is pointless) |
| 05:11 | < ReivZzz> | ...Is that a SS2 thing, then? |
| 05:11 | < ReivZzz> | When you had to futz about with spending points on strength and psi and stuff. |
| 05:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 05:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | And SS2 has already been speedrun. |
| 05:11 | <@McMartin> | http://tasvideos.org/1493S.html |
| 05:11 | < ReivZzz> | aha. |
| 05:11 | <@McMartin> | Rejected TAS of SC2. |
| 05:13 | < ReivZzz> | This speedrun attempts to complete the game in a minimal amount of time, and the completion time ends up being 35:04. |
| 05:13 | < ReivZzz> | ... |
| 05:13 | < ReivZzz> | hee. |
| 05:13 | < ReivZzz> | What should be done is cutting out the stars, I suppose. |
| 05:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, but then you're butchering the run, and it' |
| 05:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | s no longer valid. |
| 05:15 | < ReivZzz> | hrm. |
| 05:15 | < ReivZzz> | You have to show a run from start to finish; yet the speedrun is rejected because the stars are boring. |
| 05:15 | | * ReivZzz snerks. |
| 05:15 | <@McMartin> | Translation "SC2 is not a good game to TAS" |
| 05:15 | | * ReivZzz just came to that conclusion yes. :) |
| 05:17 | <@McMartin> | There are Starflight TASes. |
| 06:01 | | * Raif wonders why anyone would bother going to all this effort. |
| 06:01 | <@McMartin> | It's fun. |
| 06:01 | <@McMartin> | The S3K TAS is amazingly wtf. |
| 06:05 | < Doctor_Nick> | The animated series? Yeah, it was pretty amazing |
| 06:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nick, if you have nothing intelligent to say please shut up. |
| 06:05 | | mode/#code [+v KarmaBot] by ReivZzz |
| 06:06 | | mode/#code [+o ReivZzz] by ReivZzz |
| 06:06 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| 06:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I think the S3K TAS gets some kind of "augh, you can't do that" award. |
| 06:09 | <@Reiver> | ...? |
| 06:09 | <@McMartin> | Reiver: Among the various things done in that speedrun are: |
| 06:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sonic 3 & Knuckles Tool-Assisted Speedrun. |
| 06:09 | <@McMartin> | - Skipping bosses |
| 06:10 | <@McMartin> | - Taking the other character's exit |
| 06:10 | <@McMartin> | - skipping the ends of entire acts, moving on to Act 2 before Act 1 is finished. |
| 06:10 | <@Reiver> | |
| 06:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | - skipping entire acts outright |
| 06:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | - killing bosses before they appear on screen |
| 06:10 | <@McMartin> | ... no, I'm counting that as one of the previous. |
| 06:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 06:12 | <@McMartin> | http://tasvideos.org/826M.html |
| 06:12 | <@Reiver> | It basically found every Weird Exploit in existance then? >.> |
| 06:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Reiver: http://tasvideos.org/Movies-97up-RatingY.html -- second one in the list. Most of the videos listed are Quality, though. |
| 06:12 | <@McMartin> | Because he does actually enter Act 2 there, it just credits it as Act 1 because he skipped past Act 1's end. |
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| 06:33 | | * McMartin eyes the MM5 TAS |
| 06:33 | <@McMartin> | You can't do that either |
| 06:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh? |
| 06:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | (Oh, I know what we can call it. The "You Make Newton Weep" award.) |
| 06:44 | <@McMartin> | TF: Waveman stage he skips the vehicle in a vehicular section |
| 06:44 | <@McMartin> | The core gimmick is more "I knew you could do that, but not to that degree." |
| 06:45 | | * McMartin also <3 the Protoman stage music. |
| 06:46 | <@McMartin> | IIRC, it was the first theme I ever sequenced on my MIDI keyboard. |
| 06:49 | <@McMartin> | (PS. Eyebrows) |
| 06:56 | | * Reiver reads. |
| 06:56 | <@Reiver> | So |
| 06:56 | <@Reiver> | If someone makes an Insane movie that abuses glitches to basically teleport through half the game |
| 06:57 | <@Reiver> | That means a TAS that is 'legit' is irrelavant in 'best time' any more, right? |
| 06:58 | <@McMartin> | Usually it's a separate category. |
| 06:58 | <@Reiver> | Oh? |
| 06:58 | <@McMartin> | See also Circle of the Moon, which has a 90-minute speedrun and a five-minute one. |
| 06:58 | <@Vornicus> | Metroid Fusion's TAS doesn't do any glitching. |
| 06:58 | <@Vornicus> | MZM's rather |
| 06:59 | <@McMartin> | If there's a massive glitch that aborts the whole game, that version is usually separate from the "we mean it" TAS. |
| 06:59 | <@McMartin> | Well |
| 06:59 | <@McMartin> | Fusion's both abuse the glitch that permits one to finish with 0%. |
| 06:59 | <@McMartin> | Even though that's not supposed to be possible. |
| 07:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I think Reiv is referring to here is the S3K one, though, which does basically teleport through most of the game. |
| 07:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | And which supercedes ones that don't. |
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| 18:24 | < MyCatVerbs> | ToxicFrog: http://usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?LatticeSpace |
| 18:30 | | * ToxicFrog gnar |
| 18:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | How is csv.load() resolving to evarchive.load()? |
| 18:31 | < MyCatVerbs> | Dunno, you're writing it, last time I checked. |
| 18:31 | | * MyCatVerbs dives for the LART shelter. |
| 18:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, there's the problem. |
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| 19:19 | | * ToxicFrog throttles his CSV parser |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 19 00:00:53 2007 |