| --- Log opened Wed Jan 24 00:00:23 2007 |
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| --- Log opened Wed Jan 24 04:06:23 2007 |
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| 04:30 | <@Chalcedon> | Vorn: do you have a preference for in here, or in pm? |
| 04:31 | < Vornicus> | here works |
| 04:31 | <@Chalcedon> | ok |
| 04:31 | <@Chalcedon> | half of this is me rechecking stuff. |
| 04:32 | <@Chalcedon> | firstly, it's ok for me to put the code in my thesis as an appendix, and the program on a CD in case somebody wants to check it? |
| 04:32 | < Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 04:32 | <@Chalcedon> | excellent. |
| 04:32 | < Vornicus> | If you'd like I can assign copyright to you. Or I can declare it public domain. |
| 04:32 | <@Chalcedon> | Secondly, did you write up any documentation, if not, or if it's incomplete, what do I need to do to finish it? |
| 04:33 | < Vornicus> | I didn't write any usage documentation. |
| 04:33 | < Vornicus> | ...and indeed I have forgotten how to use it. |
| 04:33 | <@Chalcedon> | I haven't :) |
| 04:34 | <@Chalcedon> | hmm, let me think about the copyright issue. I like the idea of it being public domain, but assigning it to me could make my life easier. |
| 04:34 | <@Chalcedon> | so what ought to be in the DOCs, how to make it work obviously |
| 04:35 | <@Chalcedon> | -er- decapitalise that doc |
| 04:36 | < Vornicus> | Input format, output format, a description of what the result means, a brief description of the algorithm... |
| 04:38 | <@Chalcedon> | the formatting descriptions would include how to lay the file out so that the program can read it? |
| 04:38 | < Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 04:39 | <@Chalcedon> | excellent. |
| 04:39 | <@Chalcedon> | the last thing (I think) is the issue of authorship. I know we've been here before, but let me explain. |
| 04:41 | < Vornicus> | It's been long enough that I don't remember being here before. |
| 04:41 | <@Chalcedon> | thats good. |
| 04:41 | <@Chalcedon> | I've been worrying as I usually do. |
| 04:44 | <@Chalcedon> | Both of my supervisors felt that the most appropriate way would be with you as primary author, me as secondary author for two reasons, firstly while I didn't do any of the work involved in writing it, I provided the impetus and the explanation of what needed to occur. Secondly, it makes my life easier (I don't have to explain why somebody else wrote something for my thesis). Your original position was that you did the work so you |
| 04:44 | <@Chalcedon> | should be the sole author. If you still feel that way, I will respect that decision. |
| 04:45 | < Vornicus> | I think I agree with your supervisors. |
| 04:45 | | * Chalcedon hugs Vorn |
| 04:45 | < Vornicus> | I remember vaguely the discussion, and I don't believe "secondary author" stuff was mentioned at all, so I didn't think it was a possibility. |
| 04:45 | <@Chalcedon> | thank you, you've no idea how much I've been worrying myself sick over that section of the thesis. |
| 04:46 | <@Chalcedon> | It just means that it's referenced as You and Me, 2005. |
| 04:46 | < Vornicus> | ah, 'k |
| 04:46 | <@Chalcedon> | and thank you again for all your work and your help this evening. |
| 04:46 | <@Chalcedon> | If you don't mind, can I run the docs past you once I've written them? |
| 04:47 | < Vornicus> | That would be a good idea. |
| 04:47 | <@Chalcedon> | excellent |
| 04:47 | | * Chalcedon supply Vorn with a meal of stoatburgers and cookies |
| 04:47 | < Vornicus> | woot |
| 04:47 | | * Vornicus nrom |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jan 24 11:25:29 2007 |
| --- Log opened Wed Jan 24 11:26:04 2007 |
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| 15:29 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ever hit a point where you felt afraid to test the next revision of some program you wrote, because you just know the list of segfault bugs is doing to be depressing? :/ |
| 15:31 | <@jerith> | Ever hit a point where you're afraid to run your test because you know that even a trivial behaviour change is going to break half of them? |
| 15:32 | <@jerith> | +s |
| 15:32 | < MyCatVerbs> | No, but then, I never write unit tests anyway. I really should wonder whether these facts might be related? =) |
| 15:33 | | * MyCatVerbs hugs jerith. "Thank you." |
| 15:40 | <@jerith> | Heh. These are $coworker's unit tests. |
| 15:41 | <@jerith> | And the code in question is part of our billing system, so their paranoia is somewhat justified. |
| 15:47 | | * MyCatVerbs starts blasting "if(debug){fprintf(stderr," all over his program. |
| 15:54 | <@jerith> | Why not wrap that in a #define DPRINT()? |
| 15:55 | < MyCatVerbs> | jerith: I don't think it's possible to put varargs in a macro function... is it? |
| 15:56 | <@jerith> | Dunno. |
| 15:57 | | * MyCatVerbs facepalms. |
| 15:57 | < MyCatVerbs> | Would've taken me all of fifteen fucking seconds to have run that google search months back... heh. =) |
| 16:00 | | * jerith grins. |
| 16:01 | <@jerith> | I was going to paste the link, but got sidetracked by $coworker checking that I'd fixed all the tests I broke. |
| 16:01 | <@jerith> | (By which I mean updating the tests to reflect the new behaviour.) |
| 16:04 | < MyCatVerbs> | Fun. ^^ |
| 16:04 | < MyCatVerbs> | Hrmn. |
| 16:05 | < MyCatVerbs> | They're not technically neccessary, but would it be impolite to remove the "break;" statements in a switch() statement for those cases which end up performing calls to exit() or abort()? |
| 16:07 | <@jerith> | I'd say remove them if the exit() or abort() calls are in the same place. |
| 16:08 | <@jerith> | Or at least called by choke_and_die_horrible() or some such appropriately named function. |
| 16:08 | <@jerith> | *horribly |
| 16:10 | < MyCatVerbs> | void diescreaming (const char* suicidenote); <--- meets approval? =D |
| 16:21 | < MyCatVerbs> | ...argh. |
| 16:21 | < MyCatVerbs> | It is depressing how quickly bugs show up in my code once I start adding debug output, like I should've in the first damn place. |
| 16:22 | | * jerith grins. |
| 16:22 | < MyCatVerbs> | On the other hand, it's engenders a lot better, ah, peace of mind, in the function of my work. |
| 16:23 | <@jerith> | Unit tests! |
| 16:24 | < MyCatVerbs> | jerith: what's the distinction between a unit test and a pile of fprintf statements whenever someone runs the program with a -d flag? |
| 16:24 | <@jerith> | Unit tests wrap each module/function/class/whatever in a set of stubs and ensure that it works correctly. |
| 16:26 | <@jerith> | A simplistic example would be: assert_equals(myfunc(input1), output1); assert_equals(myfunc(input2), output2); assert_error(myfunc(bad_input)); |
| 16:26 | < MyCatVerbs> | Just how does one go about that with C code, anyway? |
| 16:27 | < MyCatVerbs> | Closest I've come thus far is writing a second program to the same interface of some component that is used by the original project. |
| 16:27 | <@jerith> | I'm sure there are unit test frameworks out there for C... |
| 16:27 | <@jerith> | Otherwise you'll have to write it by hand. |
| 16:29 | <@jerith> | The usual format is to subclass a test class and have the framework find and run them all. |
| 16:30 | < MyCatVerbs> | (e.g. I now know that my hash table functions are pretty much safe to use as far as duplicate entries are concerned, as I've run the whole of Shakespeare's first folio through them, hehehe.) |
| 16:31 | < MyCatVerbs> | jerith: ..."subclass?" In C? Repent, objecteretic! |
| 16:31 | <@jerith> | In C you'll probably have to pull all the tests in by hand. |
| 16:32 | <@jerith> | Heh. The non-object approach is to have a library of testing utilities instead of tossing them on a class. |
| 16:32 | <@jerith> | Unless there are introspection mechanisms I haven't heard about? |
| 16:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | In C? Hah. No. |
| 16:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | And more generally - DPRINTF() tells you what the program is doing, but that's it. A unit test actually invokes parts of the program *with the intent of testing them*, and then checks that their behaviour is as expected. |
| 16:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | If the unit test fails the printf-debugging might be able to tell you why, but it doesn't, itself, test anything. |
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| 18:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Chalcvy! |
| 18:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | You got the model fixed? |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 25 00:00:47 2007 |