| --- Log opened Mon Nov 20 00:00:01 2006 |
| --- Day changed Mon Nov 20 2006 |
| 00:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's "just an implementation detail" until you actually want to add a new language that it didn't ship with. |
| 00:00 | <@McMartin> | No no |
| 00:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Given a choice between writing a CFG and letting the editor do the work, and writing a complete parser in Java... |
| 00:00 | <@McMartin> | I'm comparing "The core IDE understands regexes and CFGs" |
| 00:00 | <@McMartin> | and "I have this application that understands regexes and CFGs and then spits out an Eclipse plugin" |
| 00:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh. And "the IDE has a plugin that understands regexes and CFGs"? |
| 00:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 00:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok. Yes. |
| 00:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Assuming that the plugin interface is sufficiently powerful. |
| 00:01 | <@McMartin> | Then the question is "Is this application itself an Eclipse plugin" and my reaction to that is "yeah, whatever" |
| 00:01 | | * McMartin is given to understand the plugin interface is at least on the level of emacs, and possibly better. |
| 00:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 00:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | (SciTE's plugin interface can only be described as ass) |
| 00:02 | <@McMartin> | I base this on "stuff that I know plugins have been written for" |
| 00:02 | <@McMartin> | And this includes things like program verification tools. |
| 00:02 | <@McMartin> | And hardware simulators, and (closest to me) code browsers that are informed by thermonuclear whole-program analyses. |
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| 00:11 | < Takyoji> | Apparently I declared constants in one file, then in another file I included it, and apparently it can't find the constants |
| 00:17 | < Takyoji> | any solutions? |
| 00:17 | < Takyoji> | I tried merging it into one file and it works |
| 00:17 | < Takyoji> | so there wouldn't be hope for having it in a different file? |
| 00:17 | < Takyoji> | in php |
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| 01:10 | < Takyoji> | How would I be able to find "test" in a string in PCRE? |
| 01:14 | < Takyoji> | like /+test+/ or something? |
| 01:14 | < Takyoji> | anyone know pcre? |
| 01:17 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 01:18 | <@McMartin> | Normally, just /test/ suffices, I think, at least for substitution matches. |
| 01:18 | <@McMartin> | Otherwise, /.*test.*/ |
| 01:20 | < Takyoji> | oh okay |
| 01:20 | < Takyoji> | I'll check |
| 01:20 | <@McMartin> | If /test/ doesn't work, it's because it's checking to see if the whole string is, in fact, "test". |
| 01:21 | <@McMartin> | In Python, there are two methods you use, one for "is the whole string an instance of this regexp" and one for "does this regexp occur in this string" |
| 01:21 | <@McMartin> | .* is "zero or more of any character", incidentally |
| 01:26 | < Takyoji> | still can't get it to work |
| 01:27 | < Takyoji> | I'm using php by the way, but it still uses perl pcre |
| 01:28 | < Takyoji> | oh wait |
| 01:28 | < Takyoji> | I think I've gotten it to work |
| 01:28 | < Takyoji> | by using /.*test.*/ |
| 01:28 | <@McMartin> | OK, it must be checking the whole string then |
| 01:29 | < Takyoji> | yes, I got it to work! |
| 01:29 | < Takyoji> | thank you for your help |
| 01:29 | <@McMartin> | There may be some switch to make it find instead of check-whole-string, but I don't have my Perl book handy and I don't even know if that would map to PHP |
| 01:43 | < Janus> | Would anyone's make-fu be strong? |
| 01:45 | <@McMartin> | My make-fu is not entirely unl33t. |
| 01:45 | <@McMartin> | But I have only trained in one school of it. |
| 01:47 | < Janus> | I'm trying to cajol Visual Studio into using Mingw32, but I don't know what to put into these three parameters it's giving me, or if I have to create a makefile seperately in addition to this. |
| 01:48 | <@McMartin> | That is, alas, not the school of Make with which I am familiar. |
| 01:48 | <@McMartin> | MSDev makefiles, DJPP makefiles, and UNIX makefiles are all different beasts. |
| 01:48 | < Janus> | I'm guessing it just wants to know where the makefile is, and what compiler it has to use. |
| 01:49 | <@McMartin> | And autoconf's perversions of makefiles are technically UNIX, but might as well be separate |
| 01:49 | < Janus> | That doesn't bode well. |
| 01:50 | | * McMartin is only familiar with standard UNIX makefiles, and has seen what MSVC6 produces, and it ain't the same animal |
| 01:52 | < Janus> | What would it look like in UNIX, something that executed a makefile elsewhere..? |
| 01:53 | <@McMartin> | UNIX makefiles go along the lines of: |
| 01:53 | <@McMartin> | app: obj1.o obj2.o obj3.o |
| 01:53 | <@McMartin> | {tab}gcc -o app obj1.o obj2. obj3.o |
| 01:54 | <@McMartin> | app being the target file, the stuff after the colon being the dependencies, and the line after the tab being how you make the target from the dependencies. |
| 01:54 | <@McMartin> | Then each .o has its own target, probably a .c |
| 01:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't recall if msdev makefiles are even human-editable. |
| 01:54 | <@McMartin> | They are, but VS doesn't use them. |
| 01:55 | < Janus> | It doesn't matter if VS uses them, I believe, as it's going to up to Mingw32 to compile it. |
| 01:55 | <@McMartin> | Oho |
| 01:55 | <@McMartin> | MinGW32 should work like UNIX make. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | In any event, you can also use pattern matching to say "all .o files come from a corresponding .c file and are built like so", but this gets ugly fast if you're mixing source languages. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | I have a cool little template that I use to let me mix C and C++ code though. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | And then there's a program called makedepend which will automate the rest of the dependency tracking. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | But that's more than I think you need just now. |
| 01:57 | <@McMartin> | If youc an grab the source tarball off of http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/sable/ you can probably adapt src/Makefile to your needs. |
| 01:57 | < Janus> | The only makeology I'm familier with is about 15 minutes impression of looking at the one Dev-Cpp created. |
| 01:58 | <@McMartin> | Dev-CPP uses a different format, IIRC |
| 01:58 | <@McMartin> | ... or I'm thinking of project files. |
| 01:58 | <@McMartin> | Sable has one of those, too. |
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| 02:19 | < Janus> | That's strange... |
| 02:20 | < Janus> | It does something interesting at least; when I tell Visual Studio to execute the makefile, it opens up Dev-Cpp (or gives it window focus if it's opened already) instead. |
| 02:37 | < Janus> | Even cooler, if you execute it in the Mingw32 shell, it turns it into a wacky text editor. |
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| 03:38 | <@McMartin> | Janus: It's probably using standard file association. |
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| 19:06 | < Vornotron> | ...arg save me I have the National Geographic song stuck in my head |
| 19:08 | | * GeoTube sets the Raif onto Vornotron |
| 19:25 | <@jerith> | Evening all. |
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| 21:04 | < Janus> | May I ask a question, please...? something strange is going on with my include library... |
| 21:04 | < GeoTube> | Did something start a fire? |
| 21:04 | < Janus> | I did, but it was for an unrelated witch situation. |
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| 21:08 | < Janus> | "iostream" and "cstdlib" are acting pecular with both compilers... (the native one in Visual Studio, and Mingw32). |
| 21:10 | < Janus> | Mingw32 can't seem to locate the header, and Visual Studio runs it's own version of the two, but keeps finding syntax errors within them. |
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| 21:12 | < Janus> | Apparently, "using ::t_size;" is as kosher as Sausberry Steak. |
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| 21:47 | | * Vornotron stands around waiting for a database dump. 40 minutes so far! |
| 21:49 | < GeoTube> | what percent? If you're lucky, 5% |
| 21:51 | < Vornotron> | more than that |
| 21:51 | < Vornotron> | but |
| 22:49 | | McMartin is now known as McMartin[travels] |
| 22:57 | < Vornotron> | what's the difference between travels and adventures? |
| 22:58 | < GeoTube> | an adventure implies something happened on a travel |
| 23:00 | < Vornotron> | McM usually uses [adventures] when he goes afield though |
| 23:03 | | * AnnoDomini finally finishes that 3 bit multiplier built on 1 bit summators in Workbench. |
| 23:07 | < AnnoDomini> | This was one hell of a bitch to do, because I couldn't figure out how to make sum up four bits at once. |
| 23:07 | < Vornotron> | heh |
| 23:10 | < AnnoDomini> | Finally, I summed two youngest and two oldest bits (three from AND gates, one carried), then put the outputed 2 bit numbers into a more normal 2 bit summator, with the carried bits going to the next older and the one older than that. |
| 23:11 | < Vornotron> | a 3 bit multiplier? you mean abc * abc -> abcdef? |
| 23:12 | < AnnoDomini> | Er... a0a1a2 * b0b1b2 = stuff. |
| 23:12 | < Vornotron> | yeah, same thing, different notation |
| 23:12 | < AnnoDomini> | Yeah. Two numbers, multiplying them. |
| 23:16 | < AnnoDomini> | The trouble started at the third bit of the solution - it was something like CarriedBit + a0*b2 + a1*b1 + a2*b0, and that had values from 000 to 100, which I couldn't do with two bits of output that one 1-bit summator gives. |
| 23:17 | < Vornotron> | mmm |
| 23:17 | < AnnoDomini> | Multiplying larger numbers must be a major pain. |
| 23:18 | < Vornotron> | Multiplying larger numbers you usually do with shift and a lookahead carry generator. |
| 23:20 | < AnnoDomini> | I don't really know what that is though. And now, I must go to sleep. |
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| 23:35 | < Oggy> | blah. |
| 23:35 | < Oggy> | need help from a rails maestro |
| 23:41 | < Vornotron> | there's always #rubyonrails on Freenode |
| 23:41 | < Vornotron> | I make no claims as to its quality. |
| 23:45 | < Oggy> | heh |
| 23:45 | < Oggy> | yeah, I can't stay connected to freenode for more than about 45 seconds at a time |
| 23:45 | < Oggy> | internet in here is really wonky |
| 23:46 | < Oggy> | those guys are usually great though |
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| 23:56 | < Janus> | Mmm... what's "deprecated" mean? |
| 23:56 | < Vornotron> | deprecated means that you shouldn't use it |
| 23:57 | < Janus> | Really? How could 'sprintf()' be deprecated.. |
| 23:57 | < Vornotron> | Generally a deprecated function does some things in an unavoidably unsafe way, or requires too much knowledge of how the rest of the library works. |
| 23:57 | < Vornotron> | sprintf() is deprecated because it is not safe - it is a possible cause of buffer overflows |
| 23:57 | < Vornotron> | --this is C, right? |
| 23:58 | < Janus> | No, C++. (though Visual Studio had to be bashed in the head to realize this with 'cstdlib'.) |
| 23:59 | < Vornotron> | there are safer things to call, but I'm not up on my C++. |
| 23:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | snprintf() |
| 23:59 | < Vornotron> | like that |
| --- Log closed Tue Nov 21 00:00:07 2006 |