| --- Log opened Fri Oct 27 00:00:06 2006 |
| 00:08 | <@McMartin> | The Ur-Quan Masters has just had netplay modules added to CVS. |
| 00:09 | < Vornotron> | /win/ |
| 00:39 | | mode/#code [+ooooo EvilDarkLord Thaqui TheWatcher[zZzZ] ToxicFrog|Lab Vornotron] by ReivZzz |
| 01:06 | | ReivZzz is now known as ReivWork |
| 01:52 | <@Vornotron> | I just want an EDitor!! Not a "viitor". Not a "emacsitor". Those aren't even WORDS!!!! |
| 01:53 | <@Vornotron> | every once in a while, I get linked to the ed page, and I giggles. |
| 01:53 | <@Vornotron> | http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html |
| 01:53 | <@Vornotron> | I get the giggles, that is |
| 01:54 | | Vornotron [~vorn@Nightstar-18307.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 02:16 | <@McMartin> | Only pussies want to read the text they're editing. If it were all that, why would you need to be editing it? |
| 02:21 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-8486.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 02:27 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 02:27 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 02:29 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 03:15 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 04:01 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 04:01 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 04:02 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-8027.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 05:00 | | ReivWork is now known as Reiver |
| 05:47 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-11770.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 05:47 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 05:50 | | Mahal is now known as MahalAFK |
| 05:55 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 06:02 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-8027.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Client exited] |
| 06:07 | | SouthernMyst [~SouthernM@Nightstar-26801.fv.dl.cox.net] has joined #Code |
| 06:08 | <@Reiver> | Vorn: Ask in here too, mayhap? |
| 06:10 | | * SouthernMyst waves |
| 06:10 | <@Reiver> | Fri[17:58] <Vornicus> I have four given points, and four distances, but the distances have an unknown k added to them, and are mod a known f. |
| 06:10 | <@Reiver> | Fri[17:58] <Vornicus> So I don't know the /actual/ distance. |
| 06:10 | <@Reiver> | Fri[18:02] <Vornicus> (dN + k) % f |
| 06:10 | <@Reiver> | Fri[18:03] <Vornicus> and we don't know k, but we do know f. |
| 06:11 | < SouthernMyst> | hm |
| 06:12 | < SouthernMyst> | ...and you need to find? |
| 06:12 | < SouthernMyst> | the actual distances, i gather? |
| 06:13 | <@Reiver> | Aye. |
| 06:13 | < SouthernMyst> | dN being "d sub N"? |
| 06:13 | < SouthernMyst> | or "d times N"? |
| 06:14 | <@Vornicus> | dN being distance to the target point. |
| 06:14 | < SouthernMyst> | mmkay. |
| 06:14 | <@Vornicus> | But I think I have uncovered an entirely different problem anyway... |
| 06:15 | < SouthernMyst> | aye? |
| 06:15 | <@Pi> | First of all, I'd simplify and remove the %f, to find out if it's possible to find a sphere intersection where you have the distances dN+k |
| 06:15 | <@Vornicus> | but we don't know k. |
| 06:15 | <@Vornicus> | Well, yeah - if there's two targets, and they're both using the same f, you can't tell crap. |
| 06:16 | <@Pi> | No, but you have four spheres of known radius at known points. |
| 06:16 | <@Pi> | Your target point will be at the center of a sphere which is tangent to all four of them. |
| 06:16 | <@Vornicus> | ...appolonius scares me in 2-d. |
| 06:16 | <@Vornicus> | I spelled that wrong, but |
| 06:17 | | jerith [~jerith@IRCop.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 06:18 | < SouthernMyst> | what /is/ your given data? the actual numbers? |
| 06:19 | <@Pi> | To work around the mod f, you can work nondeterministically. Your four known spheres turn into four collections of spheres of radius dN+k, dN+k+f, dN+k+2f, etc. |
| 06:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 06:19 | <@Pi> | Now we just have to prove that only one sphere of each set satisfies the condition that there exists a sphere (of radius k) tangent to all four. |
| 06:20 | <@Pi> | If you can prove uniqueness, you can solve the problem nondeterministically (guesswork) |
| 06:20 | < SouthernMyst> | ...or is this a proof? |
| 06:20 | <@Reiver> | Number crunching! |
| 06:20 | <@Vornicus> | Except that I can prove that /any/ set of four spheres that don't intersect have a tangent sphere. |
| 06:21 | <@Pi> | SouthernMyst - The given data is four points in space P1..P4 and four distances x1..x4, where xN = dN+k, and dN is the distance from PN to a target point T |
| 06:21 | < SouthernMyst> | so there aren't actual numbers. yay. |
| 06:22 | <@Pi> | Vorn - Assuming k is positive, we knwo the four spheres do indeed intersect, and that the sphere of radius k centered at T is tangent to each one internally |
| 06:23 | < SouthernMyst> | no, Vorn. what about the case of a large sphere between two smaller ones (plus a fourth one, anywhere)? in that case, there would be no tangent sphere to the three that are sort of lined up... |
| 06:24 | < SouthernMyst> | in 2d: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/Myst4581/Picture1-1.png |
| 06:25 | <@Vornicus> | ...ah, true, it /is/ possible to kill the internal sphere. |
| 06:41 | | jerith [~jerith@IRCop.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 06:41 | | mode/#code [+o jerith] by ChanServ |
| 06:42 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-8486.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 07:09 | | You're now known as theWatcher[afk] |
| 07:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 07:12 | | MahalAFK [~Mahal@Nightstar-11770.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: reinstalling xchat] |
| 07:13 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-11770.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 07:13 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 07:25 | | Mahal is now known as MahalAFK |
| 07:26 | | Reiver is now known as ReivF0d |
| 07:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 08:11 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 08:45 | | SouthernMyst [~SouthernM@Nightstar-26801.fv.dl.cox.net] has left #Code ["Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggy' until you can find a rock." -- Will Rogers] |
| 10:15 | | ReivF0d is now known as Reiver |
| 14:12 | | Thaqui is now known as ThaquiSleep |
| 15:05 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 15:07 | | ThaquiSleep [~Thaqui@Nightstar-8486.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 15:29 | | ThaquiSleep [~Thaqui@Nightstar-22105.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 17:07 | <@Chalain> | ToxicFrog: I found a pleasant Lua hack that's almost certainly useless to you. :-) |
| 17:07 | <@Chalain> | Not really a hack so much as a smart way of doing things in Plua. |
| 17:08 | <@Chalain> | In Plua, screen real estate is at an excruciating premium. |
| 17:09 | <@Chalain> | So, here's my hack: function Biki:getvars() return self.x, self.y, self.heading, self.color, --[[ etc ]] end |
| 17:09 | <@Chalain> | This lets me write: |
| 17:09 | <@Chalain> | function Biki:foo() local x,y,h,c; x,y,h,c = self:getvars(); ... end |
| 17:09 | | * Chalain wonders if "local x,y,h,c=self:getvars()" would work. It didn't work in Plua 1.1 (Lua 4) |
| 17:11 | <@Chalain> | Squee! It does. |
| 17:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:35 | | EvilDarkLord [althalas@Nightstar-17046.a80-186-184-83.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 17:40 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Nightstar-18307.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #code |
| 17:40 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 17:41 | | EvilDarkLord [althalas@Nightstar-17046.a80-186-184-83.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #code |
| 17:51 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as EvilSchemingLord |
| 18:24 | <@Vornicus> | I think "which came first, the compiler or the source code" is a more interesting question than the chicken or the egg |
| 18:33 | <@Vornicus> | ...especially since it leads directly to questions about the work of Godel and Turing. |
| 19:01 | | Syloq [Syloq@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 19:02 | | Syloq is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 19:11 | <@McMartin> | The answer is "The compiler, in a different language, unless the source code is in raw machine code." |
| 19:17 | | EvilSchemingLord is now known as EvilInTransitLord |
| 19:18 | <@Vornicus> | yeah |
| 19:22 | | * Vornicus eyes MoS |
| 19:22 | <@Vornicus> | he said the words. |
| 19:23 | <@Vornicus> | It's all over now. |
| 19:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: or, in some cases, "the source code, after which it was compiled by hand and the resulting binary used to compile the source after modifications" |
| 20:49 | | EvilInTransitLord [althalas@Nightstar-17046.a80-186-184-83.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 20:53 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 20:53 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 21:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | ... |
| 21:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | ;.; |
| 21:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | FreeNX has X11 as a dependency. |
| 21:49 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyOut |
| 21:51 | <@Vornicus> | whatis freenx? |
| 21:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | A GPL implementation of NXServer. |
| 21:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | NX being a set of remote access software. |
| 21:52 | <@Vornicus> | ah |
| 21:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Basically, it's a heavily compressing X11, VNC and RDP proxy, which automatically tunnels and authenticates over SSH. |
| 21:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | The devs claim it makes X11 usable over 9600baud, which is impressive even if they're lying by a factor of 10. |
| 21:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | They have a bunch of public test servers running, and I must say, OpenOffice is quite usable over NX to their machine in /germany/. |
| 21:54 | <@Vornicus> | now that's pretty good. |
| 21:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | (contrast this to the complete unusability of xterm using standard SSH tunneling to the CIS labs four blocks away) |
| 21:55 | <@Vornicus> | indeed |
| 21:55 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 21:55 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 21:55 | | ChalcyOut [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 21:55 | | * Vornicus wonders how good Terminal Server is. |
| 21:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | It supports that, too. |
| 21:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | The main reason I want it is that it lets you suspend and resume X programs that were started through NX, and (sometimes) move them between displays. |
| 21:56 | <@Vornicus> | sweet |
| 21:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I say sometimes because it's theoretically supported, but in practice trying to move from XOrg on FC5 to NX11 on win2k fails, and vice versa. |
| 21:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Apparently, they're working on improving that for the next major client release. |
| 21:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | (the windows build of the client is Cygwin-based, and comes with a modified Cygwin/X server which it starts automatically) |
| 21:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | All in all, it's pretty slick. |
| 21:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | All the clients are free (and yes, it has OSX), and there's a free version of the server with a limit on the number of concurrent sessions. It can proxy either single apps, or entire desktops. |
| 21:58 | <@Vornicus> | ...okay that's kinda shiny. |
| 22:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | And large chunks of it are open-source, too. |
| 22:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | (or so I infer, based on the build instructions on the website) |
| 22:01 | | ThaquiSleep is now known as Thaqui |
| 22:01 | | * Vornicus ponders |
| 22:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | My only complaint is that it seems to require a complete installation of X11 on the server side even if it will never actually be used as a display system. |
| 22:02 | | Thaqui is now known as NSGuest-641 |
| 22:02 | <@Vornicus> | gnar |
| 22:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure if this is a screwup on the part of the Fedora package team or if it really does need X parts. |
| 22:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | If it needs an X server /running/ I may be SOL because the box I want to run it on is headless. |
| 22:02 | | NSGuest-641 is now known as Thaqui |
| 22:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, and I'm sorry, but while there's an OSX client, at present the server exists only in Linux and Solaris flavours. |
| 22:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | There may be an OSX build of FreeNX. |
| 22:03 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 22:03 | <@Vornicus> | OSX is probably the hardest thing to do remote access to anyway |
| 22:04 | <@Vornicus> | Without glomming on to the WM itself, and i don't know how easy that it. |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Now, I note that all I'm really after is a way of suspending and teleporting X sessions. I don't need working remote access from offsite. |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | (although it would be nice) |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | NX is almost certainly overkill. |
| 22:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, my options for teleporting appear to be guievict (must be installed on all servers, does dangerous SO-injection tricks), xmove (has anyone /ever/ gotten this working?) or NX. |
| 22:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | And my options for suspending appear to consist solely of NX. |
| 22:05 | | * Vornicus uses something vaguely like that for Windows, LogMeIn - which is free for the simple version, and has the advantage over Terminal Server that nobody listens. |
| 22:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | The ultimate purpose of all this is to be able to run xchat on Orias rather than Leela, and detach from it and reattach elsewhere when I need to move the laptop. |
| 22:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | The ability to do the same thing with Opera would also be nice. |
| 22:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | ..there are NX clients for PS2. |
| 22:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | And for Sharp Zaurus 5XXX, which Auxilior is. |
| 22:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aha! The official server does not require X11. |
| 22:12 | <@Vornicus> | SO-injection? |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Shared object. |
| 22:12 | <@Vornicus> | I had guessed that, what's the term as a whole mean? |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | It does something heinious to link a running app to a shared object from outside which allows it to teleport the app between X servers. |
| 22:13 | <@Vornicus> | aha |
| 22:18 | | * ToxicFrog ponders /usr/NX/etc |
| 22:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think I will be installing the public beta of the pretty web interface now. |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, bastard! |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's not a self-contained web interface, it requires Apache. |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | I am not amused. |
| 22:21 | <@Vornicus> | :/ |
| 22:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. "su nx" works, though, so let's see if I can talk to it with nxclient. |
| 22:26 | <@Vornicus> | SUNX |
| 22:26 | | * Vornicus ponders eap; ponders specifically seeing if acronymfinder.com releases its database. |
| 22:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | If not, this sounds like a job for wget. |
| 22:27 | <@Vornicus> | hmm |
| 22:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Dammit, I have /got/ to do something about smbd. |
| 22:30 | <@Vornicus> | ? |
| 22:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's constantly spamming the syslog with "unable to connect to cups daemon" - probably because cups is not installed because I have no printers - and I can't figure out how to turn off print support. |
| 22:30 | <@Vornicus> | aha |
| 22:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | On the plus side, I never get tired to seeing the SCSI driver tell me how hot my disks are. |
| 22:30 | <@Vornicus> | hee |
| 22:32 | <@Vornicus> | I got to experience the sense of Real Ultimate Power the other day, when we accidentally blew the fuse my computers are on by using a toaster oven. |
| 22:32 | <@Vornicus> | When the power came back on, my computers turned on with their fans at full blast. WHOOOOOAAAAAAAA |
| 22:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hee. |
| 22:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Some day I need to record the sound of Orias doing a cold boot. |
| 22:34 | | * Vornicus has four machines beside him. |
| 22:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | First the soft hum of the power supplies, then all nine fans spinning up, then the SCSI drives spinning up (with audible whirring and clicking!) one by one. |
| 22:35 | <@Vornicus> | three of them are the same model of HP workstation, with AMD64s (and one /dual/ amd64. Shiiiny) |
| 22:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | They wouldn't let me keep one of the dual Opteron64 boxes I was developing drivers for ;.; |
| 22:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok. NX is not working. |
| 22:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fortunately, NX team gets a cookie for extremely helpful and verbose syslog messages. |
| 22:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | I need xauth installed. |
| 22:37 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 22:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | OH GOD, MY ORGANS |
| 22:51 | | * Vornicus applies oranges. |
| 22:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Setting the log level to "debug" on the nxnode and nxserver generates a lot of output. |
| 22:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | 690 lines for a simple connect-disconnect. |
| 22:52 | <@Vornicus> | fwee |
| 22:53 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[t-2] |
| 22:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, I'm starting to suspect it just won't work properly without xauth. |
| 22:56 | | * ToxicFrog ponders yum. |
| 22:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Asking for "xauth" properly gives me "xorg-x11-xauth" |
| 22:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I wonder how it did that. |
| 22:57 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 22:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | IT' |
| 22:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | S ALIIIIIIIIIIVE |
| 22:58 | | * Vornicus applies lightning. |
| 22:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Suspend-resume works fine. |
| 22:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Now let's see if I can teleport it. |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | It /almost/ worked! |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hopefully it will work when they release client 2.x |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | But suspension works fine, and that's what I'm after for now. |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | (although at some point I have to head to the lab and see if that works) |
| 23:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | (teleporting from one Linux machine to a different one, I mean) |
| 23:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Now let's see if it works with xchat. |
| 23:21 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 23:21 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 23:22 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 23:25 | | [0]ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 23:25 | | [0]ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 23:26 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 23:36 | | [0]ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 23:36 | | [0]ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 23:41 | | [0]ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 23:42 | | [0]ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 23:45 | | [0]ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 23:45 | | [0]ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 23:45 | | ToxicFrog is now known as ToxicFrog|Leela |
| 23:45 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 23:45 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 23:47 | | ToxicFrog|Leela [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Quit: Handoff to Orias complete. NX session running.] |
| 23:51 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 23:53 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 23:53 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 23:54 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 23:56 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyCooking |
| --- Log closed Sat Oct 28 00:00:06 2006 |