| --- Log opened Thu Oct 26 00:00:06 2006 |
| 00:02 | <@Vornicus> | (for those of you playing the home game: Chalain did some computer graphics back in the 80s for an F-movie called "Nightmare at Noon". The bad guy says two words - well, okay, one moan, and one scream - right at the end of the movie, and that's it. |
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| 00:21 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
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| 00:23 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 00:29 | <@McMartin> | KNEEL BEFORE ZOMG |
| 00:30 | | * Janus kneels face first. |
| 00:32 | <@Reiver> | ZOMG is a Dom? I should've known. |
| 00:32 | <@Reiver> | Always did seem a little kinky. |
| 00:32 | | * Reiver (flee) |
| 00:34 | | * Janus never gets to be dominant... no fair. |
| 00:36 | | * Reiver ties Janus to the bedpost, and whips him soundly with a deconstructor in C#. |
| 00:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...that's just twisted, Reiv. |
| 00:37 | | * Reiver then entangles Janus with a .net, blindfolds him so he cannot C, and continues the beatings until he has a lisp. And then wanders off to have a cup of Java. |
| 00:37 | | * Janus can't hide these tilde marks from the school nurse forever. |
| 00:38 | <@Reiver> | ¬¬ |
| 00:38 | <@Vornicus> | |
| 00:39 | <@Reiver> | "Is that a Python in your trousers, or are you just happy to C me?" |
| 00:39 | <@Reiver> | "I must Inform you, my dear, that the distinction is quite Basic." |
| 00:40 | <@Reiver> | "Oh, I'm sure we could Bash something together with a little effort..." |
| 00:40 | <@Reiver> | ¬¬ |
| 00:40 | | * Janus heckles. |
| 00:41 | <@Reiver> | (About this point I wish I could remember more programe languages off the top of my head. And about this point is when everyone is glad I can't) |
| 00:43 | | * Reiver Assembles a mob to remove Janus's evil Schemes. |
| 00:45 | < Janus> | At least the good Schemes are still intact. |
| 00:46 | | * Reiver then has Janus's 'Perls' removed so that his Sqls may serve as an example to others. |
| 00:46 | <@McMartin> | Scheme's predecessors were named "Planner" and "Conniver". |
| 00:46 | <@Reiver> | ... |
| 00:46 | | * Reiver snerks. |
| 00:46 | | * Reiver approves, McM |
| 00:47 | | mode/#code [+ooooo Chalain Ev3 EvilDarkLord Janus Vornicus-Latens] by Reiver |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | It was originally "Schemer" but that didn't fit wll into MIT's OS's 6-character name scheme. |
| 00:47 | <@Reiver> | *snrk* |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | (PLANNR, CNNVR, if I recall aright) |
| 00:47 | <@Reiver> | MIT had an OS that used six-character names? |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | Yup. ITS. |
| 00:47 | <@Reiver> | I gather this was Back In The Day? |
| 00:47 | <@McMartin> | Oh yes. |
| 00:48 | <@Reiver> | 1970s, before, after? |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incompatible_Timesharing_System |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | before |
| 00:48 | <@Reiver> | ...ITS stood for Incompatable Timesharing System. |
| 00:49 | <@Reiver> | I'm sure there's a joke to be made there in relation to it's modern meaning, but I can't quite place it~ |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | It was named based on design differences from the Compatible Timesharing System. |
| 00:49 | <@McMartin> | Also, uh, it was written in assembler. |
| 00:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah those wacky MIT guys. |
| 00:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Love'em. |
| 00:52 | | * Reiver eyes it. |
| 00:53 | <@Reiver> | I like the interesting approach to security. |
| 00:53 | <@Reiver> | "Anyone can do anything, but we know who did it" |
| 00:55 | <@Vornicus> | the "we know who did it" part is important |
| 00:55 | <@Vornicus> | there's a whole chunk of security about something called "repudiation" |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | Lots of stuff only works in academia~ |
| 00:56 | <@McMartin> | Also, Wiki's claim that all modern OSes are descended from Multics isn't really true. |
| 00:57 | <@McMartin> | Because Win32 is derived from VMS, which isn't a Multics descendant. |
| 00:58 | <@Vornicus> | (in the real world, preventing repudiation is the way to make sure that holes get fixed pretty much as soon as they are found) |
| 01:01 | <@Vornicus> | (and also so attackers - both internal and external - are found quickly) |
| 01:04 | | Reiver is now known as ReivWork |
| 01:05 | | * Vornicus applies gold-pressed latinum to... something. |
| 01:06 | | * ReivWork reccomends jerith's pants. |
| 01:08 | <@Vornicus> | (gold-pressed latinum - from Star Trek, particularly Deep Space 9. Latinum is a liquid metal so precious that it is stored inside bars made of gold.) |
| 01:10 | <@Vornicus> | (it's... blingtastic) |
| 01:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | "repudiation"? |
| 01:15 | <@Vornicus> | "no, I didn't load backorifice onto the tech lead's dev machine! of course not!" |
| 01:16 | <@Vornicus> | Essentially, a repudiation attack is to make it so you cannot trace actions back to the person that did it. |
| 01:16 | | takyoji [~caleblang@Nightstar-25280.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #code |
| 01:17 | < takyoji> | Is there command in php for changing characters in a varible, such as a qoute to its entity, such as " or something? |
| 01:18 | < takyoji> | because I'm passing data from a form to a php script to mail it and to save it to my MySQL server |
| 01:18 | <@McMartin> | Hmm |
| 01:19 | <@McMartin> | I know this can be done, but I'm not up enough on PHP to be able to give a definitive answer. |
| 01:19 | <@McMartin> | If you're doing it in MySQL, though, changing ' to '' will do what you want. |
| 01:21 | < takyoji> | otherwise I just thought, I suppose I could add a constraint to the text feild to not accept illegal characters |
| 01:21 | <@Vornicus> | you'd have to do that in php, not mysql |
| 01:21 | <@McMartin> | http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:PHP:SQL_Injection |
| 01:21 | <@McMartin> | YEah, thie thing is, people are going to want to use apostrophes. |
| 01:22 | <@McMartin> | Especially if their name has one, like O'Connor. |
| 01:22 | < takyoji> | jhmm |
| 01:22 | <@McMartin> | mysql_real_escape_string |
| 01:23 | <@McMartin> | (ALso, apparently the *precise* attack I gave the other day won't work on MySQL since MySQL refuses to run multiple queries at once as a security precaution) |
| 01:23 | < takyoji> | oo |
| 01:23 | <@McMartin> | (But this can still play merry hell with authentication and the like) |
| 01:23 | <@McMartin> | But it looks like mysql_real_escape_string is the function you want. |
| 01:23 | < takyoji> | yep |
| 01:47 | < takyoji> | but otherwise basically if they type the string as " /n DROP TABLE 'blah " |
| 01:47 | < takyoji> | it would actually execute the command |
| 01:47 | < takyoji> | but basically the commabd takes '/n' out of the string basically, right? |
| 01:48 | < takyoji> | as the primary reason |
| 01:48 | < takyoji> | erm, something like that |
| 01:55 | < takyoji> | is there a command for determining wether or not that a portion of varible contains specified text |
| 01:55 | < takyoji> | I mean, 'what is the command?', not 'is there a command?' |
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| 02:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know how to do this in C, but not in PHP. |
| 02:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...hmm. This is worrying. |
| 02:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yum has stopped working. |
| 02:02 | < takyoji> | think i'd have to use a different operator? or do you think i'd be a commnd? |
| 02:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | I do not know if PHP has string-level operators. |
| 02:03 | < takyoji> | hm |
| 02:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Indeed, I know very little PHP and what little I know has not endeared it to me. |
| 02:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin, is it just me, or is fedora.redhat.com down? |
| 02:03 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 02:03 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 02:03 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 02:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...oh, right, it's being horribly DDoS'd by everyone downloading FC6. |
| 02:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Argh, die die die die die |
| 02:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although I'm not sure whether to kill luaGTK here, or Fedora's library packaging. |
| 02:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's looking for /usr/lib/<library>-<version>.so, but they're all installed as /usr/lib/<library>-<version>.so.0 |
| 02:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Interesting. Calling gtk.close() results in a segmentation fault. |
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| 02:56 | < takyoji> | I believe I finally found the command I've been looking for. For detecting if a certain word is in a string: http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.preg-match.php |
| 02:56 | < takyoji> | just thought I'd share it... |
| 02:58 | < takyoji> | incase if anyone didn't know. |
| 03:02 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | cons car cdr list define lambda nil |
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| 03:18 | < takyoji> | when did firefox 2 come out? |
| 03:18 | < takyoji> | in the recent month? |
| 03:18 | < takyoji> | in the recent week? |
| 03:20 | <@McMartin> | Myupdate managers are hosed, so... |
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| 07:44 | | Forgles [~Forj@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 07:44 | <@Reiver> | Pi this is Forgles. He designs machinery kinda stuff in SolidWorks. |
| 07:45 | <@Reiver> | Forgles, this is Pi. He does unspeakable things to source code in the name of Microsoft. :) |
| 07:45 | <@Reiver> | Forj: Explain the memory running out thingy? |
| 07:45 | < Forgles> | I"m only aware of the supposed 1.3Gb (approx) limit via the SW forums |
| 07:45 | <@Pi> | |
| 07:46 | < Forgles> | it's apparently fairly well known, often mentioned when memoery issues come up |
| 07:47 | < Forgles> | and the partial workaround is to enable the 3Gb switch, which allows you to use 3Gb instead of the 2 that XP normally leaves you, and also bumps up the limit per executable to 1.6 or so |
| 07:48 | < Forgles> | I've also seen SolidWorks crash due to insufficent memory every time that task manager shows it using more than 1.3Gb or so |
| 07:48 | <@Raif> | That's some piece of software. |
| 07:49 | <@Raif> | Perhaps it's allocating tons of tiny blocks, and thus incurring a massive amount of overhead on the memory block headers. |
| 07:49 | <@Raif> | This is a completely off-the-cuff guess... I have no idea how the memory manager works. |
| 07:49 | <@Pi> | What language are you in? |
| 07:49 | < Forgles> | It's a memory hog, but mainly due to having 5,000 parts open in an assembly, each with 10+ featuress fully resolved, plus mates in each subassembly |
| 07:50 | < Forgles> | Pi, what do you mean by language? |
| 07:50 | <@Pi> | C++? C#? Java? |
| 07:50 | <@Raif> | C++? |
| 07:50 | < Forgles> | No idea what langauge was used |
| 07:50 | < Forgles> | sorry |
| 07:50 | <@Raif> | Not your app? |
| 07:50 | <@Pi> | Does it use .NET? |
| 07:51 | < Forgles> | It's a parametric 3D CAD package |
| 07:51 | < Forgles> | no idea sorry |
| 07:51 | <@Pi> | Not likely, I'd guess. |
| 07:51 | < Forgles> | I'm not really a coder |
| 07:51 | <@Pi> | Probably win32 |
| 07:52 | <@Pi> | Without access to the source, I have no idea how it's doing allocations. |
| 07:52 | <@Reiver> | (It's the engineers equivalent of Lightwave or 3DSMax, if that helps. Industry standard, and used for Grunty Things.) |
| 07:52 | <@Pi> | I do knwo that task manager doesn't have particularly accurate memory counts. |
| 07:52 | <@Reiver> | (As opposed to home-brew computer code.) |
| 07:52 | <@Raif> | Yay crappy task man! |
| 07:52 | <@Pi> | Not only that, but the 2Gb (or 3Gb with the /3gb switch) is a virtual memory limit, which is address space, and not committed bytes. |
| 07:53 | < Forgles> | My description of the above is only second hand, it's what people say on the "I have a problem with SW" forums |
| 07:53 | <@Pi> | The better counter would be in perfmon to look at the reserved bytes. If that one's bumping against the limit, then you'll get alloc errors. |
| 07:53 | < Forgles> | that's interesting...it has been said that the limit is total memory, not just virtual |
| 07:54 | <@Pi> | I've never heard of a 1.3Gb limit in any case. I don't knwo who is seeing this limit, or what apps it applies to. |
| 07:54 | < Forgles> | hrm |
| 07:54 | <@Pi> | I'm pretty sure there's no such limit programmed into XP, though I wouldn't be surprised if it's an emergent characteristic of the VMM+CRT |
| 07:54 | < Forgles> | I largely believed what had been said about that because i've seen it |
| 07:55 | < Forgles> | It's only other peoples word that it's an XP thing |
| 07:55 | < Forgles> | I think I'll take your word over theirs :) |
| 07:57 | <@Reiver> | AKA: Forj has seen it hit memory errors, but has only been told it's XP's fault because SW is saying 'it's not us!'?, Forj? |
| 07:57 | <@Pi> | Anyways, amount of physical memory and size of pagefile will certainly have a major effect on how much can be allocated to an app. As will what (and how many) other programs are running, and how many drivers are loaded. Physical memory plus pagefile is a theoretical upper limit on the sum total of all processes commit charge. Usually it's lower than that due to system pages and transition pages. |
| 07:58 | < Forgles> | Reiver, it's not so much an offical word from SW, but non-SW employees posting on the official boards to help others out |
| 07:58 | < Forgles> | SW itself says very little on the forums |
| 07:59 | <@Pi> | If the app uses a lot of memory, but doesn't access it all at once, you'll probably see some improvement by increasing the size of pagefile. Also if you have LOTS of physical memory and a reasonably small pagefile. |
| 07:59 | < Forgles> | We have 4Gb physical, and I think 3Gb pagefile |
| 07:59 | <@Pi> | Heh, maybe not. |
| 08:00 | < Forgles> | it was a vast improvement over 1Gb physical, and 2Gb pagefile ;) |
| 08:00 | <@Pi> | If the app does a LOT of allocations and deallocations, then you could just be hitting an XP limitation, though. The system reserves a lot of pages for allocating, for device drivers, for system functions, etc. And the reserved pages go up if there's lots of churn. |
| 08:00 | < Forgles> | I would think that it accesses it pretty much all at once |
| 08:00 | < Forgles> | It certainlly cannot yet take proper advantage of dual processors/hyperthreading |
| 08:01 | <@Pi> | And, as I told Reiver, it could be an emergent limitation in the memory manager. Or, more likely, an emergent limitation in the CRT, depending on how the software was written. |
| 08:01 | < Forgles> | well, it is keeping track of the relative positions of 1,000s of solid objects in 3 dimensions |
| 08:02 | <@Pi> | I can think of suggestions how to rewrite part of the code to make it better, but nothing that would help without changing the app. |
| 08:02 | < Forgles> | Pi, that went over my head. I'll take your word for it :) |
| 08:02 | <@Pi> | heh |
| 08:02 | <@Pi> | Sorry. Get Reiver to translate. I'm tired right now. It's just after midnight. |
| 08:02 | < Forgles> | yeah, I'm thinking screwing with the code is a bad idea, not to mention probably illegal |
| 08:02 | < Forgles> | fair enough |
| 08:03 | < Forgles> | I'm not actually expecting a solution |
| 08:03 | | * Reiver nods. |
| 08:03 | <@Reiver> | Thanks, Pi. |
| 08:03 | < Forgles> | I"m merely curious to know if Vista will do the same thing |
| 08:03 | < Forgles> | indeed, thanks Pi |
| 08:03 | < Forgles> | It has been enlightening |
| 08:04 | <@Pi> | Oh, and finally, if it's managed app, then you're almost certainly running into an allocation limit in CLR 1.0. In that case, upgrading to 2.0 would help, but otherwise an app that size is probably stretching what the CLR is meant to do. |
| 08:04 | < Forgles> | ok |
| 08:04 | < Forgles> | thanks :) |
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| 09:29 | <@Chalcedon> | Reiver, whats CLR and how would one upgrade it? |
| 09:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[wr0k] |
| 09:38 | <@Reiver> | Um |
| 09:38 | <@Reiver> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Language_Runtime |
| 09:55 | | * Chalcedon keeps forgetting wiki |
| 09:57 | <@Reiver> | Actually, that was google. :) |
| 09:58 | | * Chalcedon needs to get in the habit of looking things up herself even when there are handy people convenient to ask. |
| 10:03 | | * EvilDarkLord eyes topic, snickers. |
| 10:07 | <@Chalcedon> | hi EDL |
| 10:08 | < EvilDarkLord> | 'ello. |
| 10:08 | | * EvilDarkLord is having fun learning Lisp these days. |
| 10:08 | < EvilDarkLord> | (Well, Scheme to be accurate.) |
| 10:09 | | * Chalcedon would curious, but 'tis past her bedtime |
| 10:09 | < EvilDarkLord> | Good night to ye then. |
| 10:09 | | * EvilDarkLord hands Chalcy a spiked club of nightmare bashing. |
| 10:09 | <@Chalcedon> | ooh, thanks, that could be handy |
| 10:09 | <@Chalcedon> | night! |
| 10:10 | < EvilDarkLord> | Ni. And I am off to hunt food. |
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| 12:36 | | * ToxicFrog flails at GTK+ |
| 12:37 | <@Reiver> | ? |
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| 12:37 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | Normal use response, Reiv. Give him a while and flailing room |
| 12:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm trying to set up a simple text display. |
| 12:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | A read-only text pane with vertical scrollbar. |
| 12:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | My options appear to be either a label, which is designed to display a few lines of text tops, or a full-on text editing pane with styling capability and tag-tables. |
| 12:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | I am seriously wondering if it might not be easier to port Glade to Lua and then use that~ |
| 12:52 | <@Reiver> | ... |
| 12:52 | <@Reiver> | They don't just have text boxes? |
| 12:59 | <@TheWatcher[wr0k]> | Nope |
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| 15:11 | <@Ev3> | My FreeBSD bøx refuses to ./config any help? |
| 15:11 | <@Ev3> | Case sensitive, nevermind. |
| 15:29 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| --- Log closed Thu Oct 26 16:31:04 2006 |
| --- Log opened Thu Oct 26 16:31:10 2006 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Oct 26 19:15:30 2006 |
| --- Log opened Thu Oct 26 19:16:05 2006 |
| 19:16 | | TheWatcher[afk] [~chris@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 19:16 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 15 nicks [10 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal] |
| 19:16 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 27 secs |
| 19:49 | | Mahal is now known as MahalWORK |
| 20:22 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #CODe |
| 20:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 20:24 | | MahalWORK [~Mahal@Nightstar-11770.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: It's hard to be mad at someone who misses you while you're asleep. ] |
| 20:29 | | ThaquiSleep [~Thaqui@Nightstar-8486.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 20:49 | | ThaquiSleep [~Thaqui@Nightstar-8486.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 21:01 | | Janus is now known as Jan[jouantDieu] |
| 21:49 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 21:49 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 21:49 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 23:12 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:22 | | Jan[jouantDieu] [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: est lambda] |
| 23:23 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 23:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:28 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 23:28 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 23:34 | | ThaquiSleep is now known as Thaqui |
| --- Log closed Fri Oct 27 00:00:06 2006 |