| --- Log opened Wed Aug 30 00:00:05 2006 |
| 01:17 | | ReivZzz is now known as Reiver |
| 01:53 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Nightstar-18307.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 02:41 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 02:57 | < Vornicus> | Reiver! |
| 02:57 | <@Reiver> | Vornicus! |
| 02:57 | | * Reiver huggles the nice Vorny! |
| 03:30 | | Reiver is now known as Skrrit |
| 03:46 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 03:46 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 03:47 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 03:47 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 04:24 | | Mahal is now known as Gaim |
| 04:24 | | Gaim is now known as Mahal |
| 05:27 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 05:27 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 05:28 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 05:48 | | ]Blake[ [~_Bakura_@86.108.93.ns-12202] has joined #Code |
| 05:48 | <@Mahal> | Hello Blake |
| 05:48 | < ]Blake[> | hi Mahal |
| 05:51 | | ]Blake[ [~_Bakura_@86.108.93.ns-12202] has left #Code [] |
| 06:05 | | Netsplit Troika.TX.US.Nightstar.Net <-> DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net quits: @MahalWork, fhtagncaps, EvilDarkLord, @McMartin, @ToxicFrog|AFK, @ToxicFrog, himi, @Skrrit, @Reivlin |
| 06:05 | | Netsplit over, joins: ToxicFrog |
| 06:06 | | Netsplit over, joins: ToxicFrog|AFK, EvilDarkLord, MahalWork, McMartin, Reivlin, Skrrit, himi, fhtagncaps |
| 06:06 | | mode/#code [+o jerith] by ChanServ |
| 06:06 | | mode/#code [+o Chalain] by ChanServ |
| 06:06 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 06:06 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 06:06 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 06:06 | | mode/#code [-o TheWatcher[afk]] by ChanServ |
| 06:08 | <@Vornicus> | I have determined that I do not have the foggiest idea how to do application design. |
| 06:12 | < McMartin> | Oh? |
| 06:12 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 06:21 | | Chalc [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 06:21 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 06:45 | | Chalc is now known as Chalcedon |
| 06:46 | <@Vornicus> | Because I'm sitting here, ADDing over all the various dialog boxes -- not getting anywhere on any of them, mind you -- and I don't even have a real inkling of where I /should/ be starting, or what kind of information I'd need to figure that out. |
| 06:57 | < McMartin> | Hmm |
| 06:57 | | * McMartin is trying to get an interface for in-game keyconfig that doesn't utterly suck. |
| 06:57 | < McMartin> | And I think in the end I'm going to be basing it off of D2X's. |
| 07:00 | <@Vornicus> | Might be a good idea. Select the thing you want, change it. |
| 07:00 | < McMartin> | With two choices per command, and when you select joystick input, that forces a third for directionals. |
| 07:00 | < McMartin> | to wit, you can't remap joystick up to be anything other than "up". |
| 07:01 | < McMartin> | You can, however, map R1 to also be "up", in case you want a Thrust button. |
| 07:01 | < McMartin> | I'm a little stuck on how to handle gesture deletion. |
| 07:02 | < McMartin> | IIRC, the D2X way was "press Enter to change, press Alt-X to remove" |
| 07:02 | < McMartin> | I'd probably replace "Alt-X" with Delete. |
| 07:03 | < McMartin> | The ZSNES-style windowing system would be really nice to have in general, but those twits wrote it all in x86 assembler instead of something sensible. |
| 07:08 | | * Vornicus counts. |
| 07:08 | <@Vornicus> | There's usually only three action buttons at any one time, right? |
| 07:09 | <@Vornicus> | ...well, okay, Hyperspace and Stellar have one, menus have two, and battle has three. |
| 07:10 | <@Vornicus> | ...gah, see, this is the problem. I have all these solutions for problems, but I can't put them together. |
| 07:10 | <@Vornicus> | I have written ten frameworks and no applications. |
| 07:12 | < McMartin> | Three action buttons, four direction buttons. |
| 07:13 | < McMartin> | Hyperspace and navigation, strictly speaking, use a combination of the other two (menu and flight). |
| 07:13 | <@Vornicus> | And then the map has more, now that I think about it. |
| 07:14 | <@Vornicus> | ..heck, the map has five. |
| 07:16 | < McMartin> | Menu controls are "hard-coded". |
| 07:16 | < McMartin> | By which I mean you can't change them in-game, but have to hack keys.cfg directly. |
| 07:16 | < McMartin> | Eventually, I may make it so that you have to hack starcon.key or override it with an addon pack. |
| 07:18 | <@Vornicus> | which menu controls? |
| 07:26 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 07:26 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 07:29 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 07:29 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 07:29 | < McMartin> | Vorn: All of them, basically. Up, down, left, right, select, cancel, page up/down, backspace, delete, tab, slash... |
| 07:30 | < McMartin> | I think that's all of them but I could be wrong. |
| 07:30 | < McMartin> | Oh. Pause, Quit, Debug, Emergency Program Abort. |
| 07:30 | < McMartin> | Page up/down and Zoom In/Out are basically the same thing, but I think we have them separate. |
| 07:31 | <@Vornicus> | I still don't know what pu/pd does |
| 07:32 | < McMartin> | Super Melee Load Team. |
| 07:32 | <@Vornicus> | aha! |
| 07:32 | < McMartin> | Scrolls the available choices by a page. |
| 07:33 | <@Vornicus> | Only place in the game where you have that many, iirc. |
| 07:33 | < McMartin> | Aye |
| 07:35 | <@Vornicus> | even maxed out, the component selector is like 11 and the ship selector is 8. |
| 07:38 | <@Vornicus> | (hm. 3 weapons, 2 fuels, 2 powerups, PD, crew, cargo, uh... |
| 07:40 | <@Vornicus> | ...what you really need is a small hardcoded set - I don't know, probably just arrows and OK/cancel - and then let them define the rest. |
| 07:42 | <@Vornicus> | Because if you even get near defining some of them, you're going to break people's layouts. |
| 07:42 | | Skrrit is now known as Reiver |
| 07:43 | <@Vornicus> | (also, if you try to do it on the joystick, you're going to make a lot of angry people.) |
| 07:48 | | Serah [~Shemhazai@Nightstar-8502.ds1-ba.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 08:05 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 08:07 | < McMartin> | Pretty much everywhere but the main menu, where all you need is Select and Cancel, flight keys work too |
| 08:07 | < McMartin> | The problem with allowing online configuration is that they can map Quit to, say, Return. |
| 08:07 | < McMartin> | And now they can't do anything with the menu anymore. |
| 09:19 | < himi> | Have a confirmation stage, where the default is to cancel the changes unless they successfully negotiate an intelligence test? |
| 09:20 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has left #code [It's hard to be mad at someone who misses you while you're asleep. ] |
| 09:20 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 09:20 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 09:20 | < himi> | . . . . or just make the default "no" rather than "yes", so they have to actually /change/ it, and then hit return, before they can kill their config |
| 09:23 | < McMartin> | himi: It's much easier to say "If you want to mess with the deep stuff, hack this file in your home directory." |
| 09:24 | < himi> | So what, split the key configuration into stuff people might be expected to change, and stuff they're expected to leave? |
| 09:29 | < McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 09:29 | < McMartin> | Delete, for example, should pretty much always be "Delete" |
| 09:29 | < McMartin> | But you could make it Space if you really wanted to! |
| 09:33 | < himi> | heh |
| 09:33 | < McMartin> | On the other hand, people doing ports to Xbox or PS3 or whatever are probably going to want to remap Pageup and Pagedown to shoulder buttons on the gamepad. |
| 10:00 | | Reiver is now known as ReivMovie |
| 11:32 | | Mahal is now known as MahalZzz |
| 11:33 | | MahalZzz [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: This computer just fell asleep.] |
| 14:00 | | ReivMovie is now known as Reiver |
| 14:41 | | ToxicFrog|AFK is now known as ToxicFrog|W`rkn |
| 14:48 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@60.234.221.ns-21239] has joined #code |
| 14:48 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 14:50 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 15:07 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 16:11 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | frankly if I can't use my gamepad for everything I'm going to be mad. |
| 16:12 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | And since it's rare to find two gamepads that place the buttons the same way, you'd better be able to map everything. |
| 17:10 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Nightstar-18307.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #code |
| 17:10 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 19:55 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as EvilAwayLord |
| 19:57 | | You're now known as TheWatche |
| 19:57 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 20:07 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 20:50 | | MahalZzz [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 20:50 | | MahalZzz is now known as Mahal |
| 20:52 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: It's hard to be mad at someone who misses you while you're asleep. ] |
| 20:52 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 20:52 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 21:08 | <@Vornicus> | Duh. |
| 21:08 | <@Vornicus> | The first thing I should write |
| 21:08 | <@Vornicus> | is a /workflow/. |
| 21:08 | <@Mahal> | Yes. |
| 21:08 | <@Mahal> | Process diagrams. |
| 21:08 | <@Vornicus> | ...that was thoroughly random. |
| 21:09 | <@Mahal> | ? |
| 21:10 | | * Mahal looks puzzled at Vorn. |
| 21:11 | <@Vornicus> | It just came to me, out of nowhere. |
| 21:11 | <@Vornicus> | I wasn't even thinking about my projects, I'm sitting here writing SQL. |
| 21:12 | <@Mahal> | Oh! |
| 21:12 | <@Mahal> | I thought you meant that my comment was random :) |
| 21:14 | | * Vornicus reminds himself to write workflow diagrams. |
| 21:29 | | Shemhazai [~Shemhazai@Nightstar-8502.ds1-ba.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #Code |
| 21:29 | | Shemhazai [~Shemhazai@Nightstar-8502.ds1-ba.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Client exited] |
| 21:30 | | Shemhazai [~Shemhazai@Nightstar-8502.ds1-ba.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #Code |
| 21:45 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: It's hard to be mad at someone who misses you while you're asleep. ] |
| 21:46 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 21:46 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 21:46 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Client exited] |
| 21:46 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5107.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 21:46 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 22:00 | | Shemhazai [~Shemhazai@Nightstar-8502.ds1-ba.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 22:29 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 23:14 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | ...oh, sweetness. |
| 23:14 | <@Mahal> | Yes? |
| 23:14 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | I finally got clearance from Kim to keep the CF-7xxx and took it apart to see what's inside. |
| 23:14 | <@Mahal> | :) |
| 23:15 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Two P3 processors (of unknown specifications), 4GB of PC133 SDRAM, one AGP slot, one ISA, and six PCI (containing two fiberoptic LAN cards and four Invertex Jalapeno SSL accelerators, although I'm going to have to give those back) |
| 23:16 | <@Vornicus> | ...that's a shitton of slow ram. |
| 23:16 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Well, there are three factors at work here: |
| 23:17 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | - when we designed it, DDR was not practical for this price range; |
| 23:17 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | - it's a cache, so the bottleneck is network speed, not RAM speed; |
| 23:17 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | - it's meant to keep as much of the cached data in memory as it can, because as soon as it starts hitting disk, that's the bottleneck instead |
| 23:17 | <@Mahal> | (Unrelated: I have discovered a wordpress plugin that makes it feel a LOT EASIER to use. I am very happy about this fact.) |
| 23:18 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | So we took RAM that was fast /enough/ and crammed as much in as the processors could address. |
| 23:18 | | * Mahal nods |
| 23:20 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | It should be noted that this is an SA 7225; it dates from the days when we were called CacheFlow. I'm getting it because we haven't supported these in quite some time and are finally retiring the ones in the lab. |
| 23:20 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | ...oh. It also has two hot-swappable power supplies, and eight hot-swappable SCSI drive bays on two controllers. |
| 23:21 | <@Vornicus> | ...bitching. |
| 23:21 | <@Vornicus> | Can I have one? |
| 23:21 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | I think it has an ATA controller on the motherboard, but I won't be able to tell without a flashlight. If not I'll either have to keep my ATA drives in Orias, or install a PCI one. |
| 23:21 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | (it /does/ have enough spare room in the case for a drive cage, if I can get the controller) |
| 23:21 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Sadly, we only have one. |
| 23:22 | <@Chalcedon> | thats quite a piece of machinery for it's age |
| 23:22 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | I would offer you a CF-5000, which is similar - one less disk slot, one extra PSU slot, and faster processors (Xeons instead of stock P3s) - but of the two we have, both are dead. |
| 23:23 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | One of them appears to have suffered a PIC failure, and the other one appears to have suffered a catastrophic motherboard failure /and/ a PIC failure. |
| 23:23 | <@Chalcedon> | somebody didn't like that one |
| 23:23 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | And yes, it is. I believe it was one of our top of the line products when we released it. |
| 23:24 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | These days it has been supplanted by the SG-8100, which has the same number of drives, but 8GB of DDR400 memory and two Opteron dualcore processors~ |
| 23:24 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Sadly, Kim'll snark at me if I scarf the 300GB drives from our prototype 8100s, so I have to settle for populating my 7225 with 20GB drives. |
| 23:25 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | (yes, this means a fully populated 8100 has 2.4 TB of disk. We're using one as a fileserver.) |
| 23:26 | <@Chalcedon> | niiice. |
| 23:27 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Neither the 8100 nor the 7225 have as awesome a case as the 5000 or the 2000, though |
| 23:28 | < ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Two locking levers on the back of the case; pull them both open and then pull one out, and the entire internal frame containing the motherboard and SCSI and PSU backplanes slides out of the case on rollers. |
| 23:28 | | ToxicFrog|W`rkn is now known as ToxicFrog|AFK |
| --- Log closed Thu Aug 31 00:00:05 2006 |