| --- Log opened Tue Aug 29 00:00:04 2006 |
| 00:14 | | mode/#code [+ooo MahalWork TheWatcher[afk] ToxicFrog|AFK] by Reiver |
| 00:14 | | mode/#code [+vvv fhtagncaps himi-cycling-baroquely Serah] by Reiver |
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| 00:48 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 03:12 | <@Chalcedon> | could I have some assistance to apply logic to my problem? |
| 03:12 | <@McMartin> | LOGIC! |
| 03:12 | <@McMartin> | Ever the humble handmaiden of SCIENCE. |
| 03:12 | <@Chalcedon> | useful beastie logic |
| 03:12 | <@McMartin> | What problem is this? |
| 03:13 | <@Chalcedon> | I need to import my data into the analysis program I'm using |
| 03:13 | <@Chalcedon> | most of it I can copy/paste in, but one portion is so huge it doesn't fit on a single excel spreadsheet |
| 03:13 | <@McMartin> | And your analysis program is Excel, or only accepts Excel format files? |
| 03:14 | <@Chalcedon> | sadly I can paste multiple segments downwards but not sideways (and sideways is where I'm hitting excel limits) |
| 03:14 | <@Chalcedon> | nope |
| 03:14 | <@Chalcedon> | program is called PRESENCE |
| 03:14 | <@McMartin> | What kind of data does PRESENCE accept? |
| 03:14 | <@Chalcedon> | I can import from csv, but I am having issues |
| 03:14 | <@McMartin> | In particular, does it acc... right then. |
| 03:14 | <@McMartin> | CSV is what you want |
| 03:14 | <@McMartin> | What manner of issue? |
| 03:14 | <@McMartin> | CSV has... peculiar variants. |
| 03:14 | <@Chalcedon> | will accept copy/pasted data but yeah. |
| 03:14 | <@Chalcedon> | oh, it'll go in ok. |
| 03:15 | <@McMartin> | What form is that data in now? |
| 03:15 | <@Chalcedon> | when I take just the data (no lables) and import it, it puts the first row and column in the header column, not the data column, thus shortening it by one row and one column |
| 03:16 | <@Chalcedon> | I tried adding the label row and column, but you need to tell it how many rows/columns to expect and that produces errors |
| 03:16 | <@McMartin> | Can you increase those numbers by 1? |
| 03:16 | <@Chalcedon> | I've tried, what I want someone elses opinion on, is have I put it in the right place, or is there somewhere else I can try |
| 03:17 | <@McMartin> | Nnnnormally, I'd say that one can deduce the number of rows and columns in a CSV merely by looking at the data |
| 03:17 | <@McMartin> | However many lines there are, that's how many rows there are. |
| 03:17 | <@McMartin> | However many commas are in it, that many + 1 is the number of columns. |
| 03:17 | <@Chalcedon> | I need to give it number of sites (rows), total number of sampling occasions (columns) and number of samples per season (column groupings). |
| 03:18 | <@Chalcedon> | I think it's the last one that's been causing problems because when it puts the first row into the header column it adjusts number of rows/columns down by one |
| 03:18 | | * McMartin nods |
| 03:19 | <@Chalcedon> | the problem is I need to adjust the column groups too, I've been adding it at the start (which seems most logical), do you think I might need to put the additional column somewhere else? |
| 03:19 | <@Chalcedon> | I'm worried that if it's in the wrong place it will screw up the analysis. |
| 03:19 | <@McMartin> | CSV isn't a standard enough format for me to be able to answer that authoritatively. |
| 03:19 | <@McMartin> | Can you test things out with smaller data sets first to see what it looks like? |
| 03:19 | | * Chalcedon doh |
| 03:20 | <@Chalcedon> | thats so obvious, thank you, yes I will try that. |
| 03:20 | <@McMartin> | In particular, "column groups" isn't part of "classic" CSV at all. |
| 03:20 | <@McMartin> | But yes. This calls, not for logic, but for empricism. |
| 03:20 | <@Chalcedon> | no, that's part of what the analysis needs |
| 03:20 | <@McMartin> | SCIENCE to the rescue! |
| 03:20 | <@Chalcedon> | that should be ok |
| 03:20 | | * Chalcedon is good at doing science |
| 03:21 | <@Chalcedon> | ... you'd hope so after nearly five years of formal training in it. |
| 03:21 | <@Chalcedon> | thanks McM. |
| 03:22 | | Mahalout is now known as Mahal |
| 03:36 | <@Chalcedon> | ah ha! |
| 03:36 | <@Chalcedon> | I found the problem |
| 03:36 | <@Chalcedon> | it needs something in its very first square. |
| 03:36 | | * Chalcedon doh |
| 03:36 | <@Chalcedon> | such a simple problem |
| 03:43 | <@McMartin> | And now it is solved, hooray |
| 03:43 | | * McMartin wanders off to play games |
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| 07:24 | | mode/#code [+oo Reiver Reivlin] by Mahal |
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| 17:27 | < Vornicus> | http://xkcd.com/c149.html <--- ah, stupid unix jokes. |
| 17:28 | <@ToxicFrog|AFK> | Pfft. |
| 18:16 | | * Vornicus fights with Windows. |
| 18:16 | < Vornicus> | Why do you not allow me to make any changes to the D drive? |
| 18:35 | <@ToxicFrog|AFK> | Because it is a hor. |
| 18:57 | <@jerith> | Better than my code this afternoon behaing in completely different ways depending on whether it's running in Linux, Windows or Cygwin. |
| 18:58 | <@jerith> | Because Java really doesn't care about the underlying OS. Nahah, it doesn't. UNTIL YOU NEED TO GIVE IT A FILENAME! |
| 18:59 | < Vornicus> | heh |
| 18:59 | <@jerith> | Because all the classpaths need to be Unix-style and everything Java reads inside has to be Windows-style. |
| 18:59 | <@jerith> | Try explaining /that/ to your customers. |
| 18:59 | < Vornicus> | %B |
| 19:00 | < Vornicus> | ...dammit, I'm not on xchat here. |
| 19:00 | <@jerith> | :-) |
| 19:00 | <@jerith> | So I spent all day figuring out how to shell out to cygpath from Java. |
| 19:01 | <@jerith> | So hopefully there will be three very happy customers tomorrow. |
| 19:01 | <@jerith> | (Counting the number of cygwin references on the forums.) |
| 19:13 | < GeoTube> | ..is it wrong that I find that site funny? |
| 19:13 | < GeoTube> | [xkcd] |
| 19:14 | < Vornicus> | It is quite funny. |
| 19:15 | < GeoTube> | I agree. |
| 19:15 | < GeoTube> | damn, self reference! |
| 19:17 | < GeoTube> | http://xkcd.com/c42.html <-- a classic. |
| 19:17 | < GeoTube> | ..nice number as well.. |
| 19:24 | | * Vornicus vaguely boreds, fiddles with VornMoO. |
| 19:24 | < EvilDarkLord> | VornMoO? |
| 19:25 | | * EvilDarkLord googles. Success! |
| 19:25 | < Vornicus> | VornMoO, being a remake of Master of Orion, by me, with a nicer user interface. |
| 19:26 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 19:26 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 19:26 | < Vornicus> | ...wow. |
| 19:29 | <@jerith> | Wow? |
| 19:30 | < Vornicus> | "vornmoo" is something that google knows exists. |
| 19:30 | <@jerith> | "Did you mean: vornado" <-- *giggle* |
| 19:30 | < Vornicus> | ...though it thinks you might possibly mean fans. |
| 19:30 | <@jerith> | The only hit is the backstory on your LJ... |
| 19:30 | < Vornicus> | well, yes. |
| 19:32 | <@jerith> | Then again, that's about the only place you've mentioned it... |
| 19:32 | <@jerith> | When will you have a code repo up? |
| 19:32 | < Vornicus> | ...doh, I keep intending to do that. |
| 19:33 | | * EvilDarkLord wonders if Google will ever start recording irc chats on public channels. |
| 19:33 | < Vornicus> | ...oh, look, I can ssh into my computer from here. Give me a few moments. |
| 19:33 | | * jerith grins. |
| 19:33 | <@jerith> | EvilDarkLord: I doubt it'll ever happen. Too intrusive. |
| 19:33 | < Vornicus> | EDL: some channels specifically disallow public posting of logs - Freenode/#wikipedia for one. |
| 19:34 | <@jerith> | Why is that, do you suppose? |
| 19:34 | < Vornicus> | I don't know. |
| 19:34 | < Vornicus> | Politics or something. |
| 19:34 | <@jerith> | Ah. |
| 19:34 | < Vornicus> | ...shit, I need apache2 to use the http connection method. |
| 19:35 | <@jerith> | I've got a host set up if you want to use that... |
| 19:35 | < Vornicus> | That would be awesome. |
| 19:35 | <@jerith> | I'm still figuring out mod_auth_mysql. |
| 19:35 | <@jerith> | http://furnus.theopenproject.org |
| 19:35 | <@jerith> | Not quite ready for primetime yet, but usable. |
| 19:35 | < Vornicus> | It will do. |
| 19:37 | <@jerith> | I /think/ it's just a matter of renaming the apache directives (I had the wrong version of the docs)... |
| 19:40 | | * Vornicus tries to write a project purpose. |
| 19:41 | <@jerith> | Don't worry about that, it's just for registration. |
| 19:41 | <@jerith> | And I'll approve it as soon as you shout. :-) |
| 19:42 | | * Vornicus tries to decide on a license. |
| 19:43 | <@jerith> | I like CC attr,non-com,no-der 2.5, myself. |
| 19:43 | <@jerith> | Umm, that's for writing, though. |
| 19:43 | <@jerith> | s/no-der/sharealike/ for code. |
| 19:43 | < Vornicus> | Yeah, this is a code license |
| 19:44 | <@jerith> | Whatever's good. |
| 19:44 | <@jerith> | As long as you're happy with anon read on the svn repo. :-) |
| 19:45 | | * Vornicus is considering, mainly, the GPL. |
| 19:46 | <@jerith> | GPL's good. |
| 19:46 | <@jerith> | I prefer something BSDish, but that's just me. |
| 19:47 | < Vornicus> | there. |
| 19:48 | < Vornicus> | I don't exactly have much to put there yet. |
| 19:50 | <@jerith> | That's all right, the repo only gets created on a cron job anyway, unless I poke it. |
| 19:50 | <@jerith> | And currently write access has to be hacked in by hand. |
| 19:50 | < Vornicus> | ah |
| 19:51 | <@jerith> | Although if I get this mod_auth_mysql stuff working now, everything will be shinyhappy. |
| 19:56 | | * Vornicus decides that designing the main screen would be useful. |
| 19:59 | <@jerith> | 'Twould, yes. |
| 20:00 | | * Vornicus fiddles. |
| 20:00 | <@jerith> | Syntax error on line 79 of /etc/apache2/vhosts/Savane.conf: |
| 20:00 | <@jerith> | Auth_MySQL_Info not allowed here |
| 20:00 | <@jerith> | Frack! |
| 20:03 | <@jerith> | Vorn: mind if I add myself to the project? |
| 20:03 | < Vornicus> | Go for it. Add Reiver, too, if he's got an account. |
| 20:03 | <@jerith> | (Normally you'd have to do it, but I'm special. :-P) |
| 20:04 | <@jerith> | He doesn't, but you can probably mail him. |
| 20:04 | < Vornicus> | I don't have his email address. |
| 20:04 | <@jerith> | Should I make myself a project admin too? |
| 20:04 | | * Vornicus does this the old-fashioned way: /msg |
| 20:04 | < Vornicus> | Yes. Someone who knows the system would be helpful. |
| 20:04 | | * jerith nods. |
| 20:05 | <@jerith> | Not that I know it all that well, but if all else fails I can RTFS. ;-) |
| 20:05 | < Vornicus> | indeed. |
| 20:06 | <@jerith> | Gah! You have to make me an admin. |
| 20:07 | <@jerith> | If I'm root I don't get the tickybox because only admins can see that page, so it assumes I am one. :-/ |
| 20:07 | <@jerith> | Go to Main->Permissions in the admin bar. |
| 20:10 | | * jerith grumbles about inconsistant directives. |
| 20:10 | | * Vornicus fiddles with it, keeps getting errors. |
| 20:10 | < Vornicus> | I can't view tasks I have created. |
| 20:11 | <@jerith> | They're all Auth_MySQL_Foo except some which are AuthMySQL_Foo |
| 20:11 | <@jerith> | If you were getting errors it was probably me bouncing apache... |
| 20:11 | <@jerith> | Try again? |
| 20:11 | <@jerith> | (I'm finished bouncing it for now.) |
| 20:12 | < Vornicus> | I think I got it. |
| 20:12 | < Vornicus> | Hey, look, I know your real name now. |
| 20:13 | <@jerith> | I've just added svn, bugs, tasks and news. :-) |
| 20:13 | <@jerith> | I've never really kept it a huge secret. ;-) |
| 20:14 | < Vornicus> | Yeah, but I never knew it. |
| 20:15 | <@jerith> | I think you told me yours once, but it had too many consonants to stick in my memory. |
| 20:15 | < Vornicus> | Pff. |
| 20:15 | <@jerith> | Either that or not enough vowels. |
| 20:15 | <@jerith> | One of the two. :-P |
| 20:18 | < Vornicus> | Dan Uznanski is my real name. |
| 20:18 | | * Vornicus ponders. |
| 20:19 | <@jerith> | See? Not enough vowels. :-P |
| 20:20 | <@jerith> | Polish? |
| 20:20 | < Vornicus> | Polish, yes. |
| 20:21 | | * Vornicus fiddles with drawings. |
| 20:21 | <@jerith> | So, what's it like working for Chalain? |
| 20:21 | < Vornicus> | It's great. |
| 20:21 | <@jerith> | Oops, he's here. :-P |
| 20:22 | <@jerith> | The last few months at Amazon has taught me just how much I still need to learn. :-/ |
| 20:23 | <@jerith> | Then again, it's awesome not being the best programmer on every team I'm on anymore. |
| 20:24 | <@jerith> | Being the senior guy's great and all, but it doesn't teach as much as working with people who have far more experience. |
| 20:25 | < Vornicus> | Except for those times when I'm essentially waiting for email (like, now), I keep having to be be smarter. |
| 20:26 | < Vornicus> | DOesn't hurt that I just plain love the work I'm doing and the place I'm doing it and the people i'm working with. |
| 20:27 | <@jerith> | Yay for great jobs! |
| 20:27 | < Vornicus> | Indeed. |
| 20:28 | <@jerith> | Hmm, is there a way to grant select privs to only certain fields in mysql? |
| 20:28 | <@jerith> | Vornicus: You there full time or an intern? |
| 20:28 | < Vornicus> | Create a view that does the select for you, grant select privs to the view. |
| 20:29 | < Vornicus> | Until Friday, I'm an independent contractor. |
| 20:29 | <@jerith> | Hmm... |
| 20:29 | <@jerith> | How do you do that? |
| 20:29 | < Vornicus> | CREATE VIEW my_view AS SELECT ...; |
| 20:29 | <@jerith> | I don't want to mess with the database more than I have to -- Savane manages and I'd rather not mess with that. |
| 20:30 | <@jerith> | Hmm... |
| 20:31 | < Vornicus> | and then GRANT works as normal, just name the view. |
| 20:31 | < Vornicus> | I don't recall is MySQL has views though. |
| 20:32 | <@jerith> | Ah, it only has views from 5.0. |
| 20:32 | <@jerith> | And we're on 4.something. |
| 20:32 | <@jerith> | :-( |
| 20:32 | < Vornicus> | Postgres does, Oracle does, SQL Server does, Access does but calls them "select queries"... |
| 20:32 | < Vornicus> | DB2 obviously does, seeing as it's essentially the reference dbms. |
| 20:33 | <@jerith> | If Savane and ISPConfig didn't depend on MySQL I'd be running Postgres. |
| 20:33 | <@jerith> | :-( |
| 20:33 | < Vornicus> | Postgres is pretty awesome, from what I can tell with my experience with it lately. |
| 20:33 | <+fhtagncaps> | Everyone tells me that. |
| 20:33 | <@jerith> | I haven't used it much myself. |
| 20:34 | <+fhtagncaps> | I've poked at it. |
| 20:34 | <@jerith> | But I have limited experience with DBs of all types. |
| 20:34 | <+fhtagncaps> | (The install results in a more sane configuration than MySQL...) |
| 20:34 | < Vornicus> | I wonder if SQLite has views. |
| 20:34 | <@jerith> | I keep hearing that MySQL is pretty crummy at just about everything. The niche it used to fill is now done better by SQLite. |
| 20:35 | <@jerith> | And it's trying to reach for Postgres and the others, but it has too much of a "small" legacy. |
| 20:35 | <+fhtagncaps> | Except that all the tutorials on the web are still for MySQL, IIRC. |
| 20:36 | | * jerith nods./ |
| 20:36 | <+fhtagncaps> | Which means that self-taught people are still going to know it. |
| 20:36 | <+fhtagncaps> | (Unfortunately) |
| 20:36 | <@jerith> | MySQL got all the publicity because it was small and easy. |
| 20:37 | <@jerith> | Now there's a lot of inertia behind it because everything and its brother comes with MySQL bindings by default. |
| 20:37 | | * Vornicus determines that the main screen design depends on what will show up in the main screen. |
| 20:38 | < Vornicus> | and I'm not sure what that is yet. |
| 20:38 | < Vornicus> | On the other hand, i /can/ design other screens. |
| 20:39 | <@jerith> | Which will probably give you a better idea of what the main screen needs. :-) |
| 20:39 | < Vornicus> | Indeed. |
| 20:40 | | * Vornicus tries to decide what screen to start on. |
| 20:40 | < Vornicus> | ...the startup screen! |
| 20:42 | <@ToxicFrog|AFK> | VornMOO, thisis? |
| 20:42 | < Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 20:46 | < Vornicus> | gnar. Remind me to get screencaps of the original screens. |
| 20:48 | | * Vornicus reminds himself. |
| 20:51 | | * jerith reminds Vorn. |
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| 22:40 | < Vornicus> | Zaphod Beeblebrox the Nothingth! |
| 23:04 | <@Mahal> | THE FIRST!!!! |
| 23:05 | < Vornicus> | THE NOTHINGTH!!!!! |
| 23:06 | | * Chalcedon suggests that everone calm down now, and hands out cookies |
| 23:06 | < Vornicus> | :P |
| 23:06 | | * Serah dances with Vornicus. |
| 23:07 | | * Vornicus dances |
| 23:07 | < Serah> | Got fiddlemusic ^_^ |
| 23:07 | | Mahal is now known as MahalOut |
| 23:49 | | MahalOut is now known as Mahal |
| --- Log closed Wed Aug 30 00:00:05 2006 |