| --- Log opened Fri May 08 00:00:31 2015 |
| 00:50 | | Someone [Someone__@Nightstar-cohisb.cpe.sourcecable.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 00:52 | < Someone> | hey, dunno if either of you are here, heh, but, quick question - i'm trying to get into MF0 and I just looked at a thread that suggested that, at most, you need 6 red d6s to play, if you use bricks instead of dice to keep track of things. |
| 00:53 | < Someone> | i was thinking about the mechanics (declare a target and a range, then roll your stats dice) combined with attack dice (2d6 if you have an Attack System, +1d8 if you have two) and...I don't see how you'd need six :v |
| 00:53 | < Someone> | at most you'd need 4 red d6s, two for the attacker and two for the mech that'll enter Combat Order after it's attacked. Am I wrong? |
| 00:54 | < Someone> | actually, i guess they've got 12 red d6s there, which just raises more questions http://www.mobileframehangar.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1419 |
| 00:56 | < FlakManiak> | Hmm. |
| 00:56 | < FlakManiak> | Does one want to keep the attacker's dice on the table after the attack is resolved? |
| 01:03 | < FlakManiak> | I had thought one needed two red d6 and four red d8. |
| 01:10 | < Someone> | That's the impression I'm under, yeah. There's no need to keep attack dice around post-attack, since you can't respond to another attack or anything like that. |
| 01:10 | < Someone> | Maybe the extra dice are for hits... |
| 01:11 | < Someone> | In that case, though, I've got more than enough extra blue/yellow dice to calculate hits. (whoo!) |
| 01:11 | < Someone> | my local tabletop store sells stacks of 36 small single-colour dice for something like 7 bucks. I bought two, one for blue and one for yellow. >_> |
| 01:15 | < Someone> | 14 dice, say, two d6 for attack leaves 12 dice for hits...but maximum number of hits is defenseless opponent + an 8 on a red d8, isn't it? |
| 01:15 | < Someone> | oh wait, plus Spot, you could go up to 14. Mystery solved. |
| 01:16 | < Someone> | plus a 6 on Spot* |
| 01:16 | < FlakManiak> | Oh, so people prefer those to all be red? Yeah I sort of get that. |
| 01:17 | < FlakManiak> | Also, fun fact: Though I started building for MF0 in the spring of 2013, I have played to date: Several fractions of games. That is all. (I am very satisfied with how the Lego mecha sit on my dresser, thank you. I knew this would happen, and I was okay with it.) |
| 01:17 | < Someone> | heheh :c |
| 01:18 | < FlakManiak> | That said, if you've a gaming store to play at, your chances of Actually Playing are surely far greater than mine. |
| 01:18 | < Someone> | i'd hope so. hell or high water i think i'm bringing the game down there this Sunday. |
| 01:18 | < FlakManiak> | Maybe I'll manage to play in the summer. |
| 01:18 | < FlakManiak> | If nothing else, trekking to a game store with known MF0 presence is an excuse to show off my builds. |
| 01:19 | < Someone> | i wanna build a third army before then (so that i can actually play it, and have two other people with me), and i've got a not-really-local LEGO store that i'm gonna drop by for all the fiddly bits people like to make their mechs out of. |
| 01:19 | < Someone> | if they have like, an online forum or something, you could try to organize stuff beforehand. if they don't i guess you're screwed, heh |
| 01:19 | < FlakManiak> | Yes, I can highly recommend fiddly bits. |
| 01:19 | < Someone> | heehee. |
| 01:19 | < FlakManiak> | I like, uh, extravagant builds. |
| 01:19 | < FlakManiak> | Full of joints and all that. |
| 01:19 | < Someone> | My two demo armies are 7 modified Classics. I'm trying to stay under 8 studs high. |
| 01:20 | < Someone> | at/under* |
| 01:20 | < Someone> | have 7 modified classics* and three weirdo mechs. |
| 01:20 | < Someone> | Two are chicken walkers that I'm pretty proud of, but only one of the mechs has joints that are anything other than abstract. |
| 01:20 | < FlakManiak> | That is wise for game pieces, but I have no such size discipline myself. (I uh, might have optimized for "nice to look at", which... Maybe is good for convincing people to play the game?) |
| 01:21 | < Someone> | Possibly :v |
| 01:21 | < Someone> | My other issue is that I have no parts, so I couldn't even lend myself the temptation of making something exceedingly articulate. |
| 01:21 | < Someone> | myself to* |
| 01:21 | < FlakManiak> | But yeah, good luck to you. May you play more games than I do. |
| 01:21 | < FlakManiak> | And let me guess: You're not a BrickLink/BrickOwl user? |
| 01:21 | < Someone> | thx `u` |
| 01:22 | < Someone> | Naw. I took a glance at BrickLink and nearly yelped. |
| 01:22 | < Someone> | The interface looks insurmountable. |
| 01:22 | < FlakManiak> | Yes, its interface is really, really bad. |
| 01:22 | < Someone> | X} |
| 01:22 | < FlakManiak> | I muddled through it the "normal way" approximately once. |
| 01:22 | < Someone> | Let me guess, someone wrote some scripts tom ake it easier? |
| 01:22 | < FlakManiak> | Then I found a set of cost minimizer scripts by a guy called atxdad, on Brickset. And that revolutionized my usage. |
| 01:22 | < FlakManiak> | Yes, exactly. |
| 01:22 | < Someone> | heehee. |
| 01:23 | < FlakManiak> | BrickOwl might be more usable innately but I haven't actually used it. |
| 01:23 | < FlakManiak> | I just poked around a little once or twice. |
| 01:23 | < Someone> | The other thing is I'm not too used to buying used things off third-party sites online, and I'm used to things not being available for cheap in Canada anyway. |
| 01:24 | < Someone> | My not-local Lego store has the Brick Shelf thing going on. Twenty bucks for an (allegedly) pint-sized cup of parts sounds amazing, compared to new and local used prices. |
| 01:24 | < FlakManiak> | Well, a lot of the parts on BrickLink are nw; that is, they're straight from sets, parted out by BrickLink sellers. |
| 01:24 | < Someone> | Though that could be becuase i am specifically looking for the Fiddly Bits. |
| 01:24 | < Someone> | Ah. |
| 01:25 | < Someone> | Like, Lego has a thing where you can order a bag of whatever parts you want online, but it's...like, ten cents a piece, minimum, for the important tiny parts. Ugly. |
| 01:25 | < FlakManiak> | Also yeah the pick-a-brick wall at Lego stores is fantastic. |
| 01:25 | < Someone> | ten cents --> er, now that the USD is so above CAD...that's USD |
| 01:25 | < FlakManiak> | And yeah the online pricing from Lego themselves ain't great, and you can only get (some subset of?) fairly recent parts. |
| 01:26 | < FlakManiak> | But buying off BrickLink, I can get an extremely good selection of parts from across the ages, at usually very good prices. The downside is it's a huge hassle. |
| 01:26 | < Someone> | mm. |
| 01:26 | < FlakManiak> | But a couple days ago I ordered a ton of parts to build Aquanauts stuff, because that was one of my favorite themes growing up. |
| 01:26 | < Someone> | heheh. |
| 01:26 | < FlakManiak> | And I could actually just get loads of the parts I wanted, even though they hadn't been made in fifteen years or more. |
| 01:27 | < Someone> | even as a kid i was one of those people who kept models around for a month or two before demolishing them for parts. >_> |
| 01:27 | < FlakManiak> | I never had the discipline to keep things around for that long, when I was a kid. |
| 01:27 | < Someone> | oh, i forget how long, heheh. |
| 01:28 | < FlakManiak> | Also, for the record: TheShadow is some kind of bot or something. I have no idea what its purpose is. Maybe just logging? |
| 01:28 | < Someone> | snort. oh, probably. |
| 01:28 | < Someone> | otherwise there's no way to keep logs afaik. |
| 01:28 | < Someone> | unless it was getting mined from another client (ie yours!!) |
| 01:28 | < Someone> | and re discipline, discipline won't let you practice making mechs! |
| 01:29 | < FlakManiak> | I suppose. But Digital Designer will. |
| 01:29 | < Someone> | one of the first things i learned was to emulate my beloved Mechwarrior games' torso twist by using the 4-stud spinning turret piece as my mechs' waists. |
| 01:29 | < Someone> | True. |
| 01:29 | < Someone> | If you have the patience, heh. |
| 01:29 | < FlakManiak> | Speaking of, I ought to order parts for the large pile of designs I have in the pipeline. |
| 01:30 | < FlakManiak> | Got various bombastic super robots just waiting to be parts-ordered. |
| 01:30 | < Someone> | heheh. |
| 01:31 | < Someone> | i've alllllways been a Real Robot kinda guy. And much less the humanoid designs than the inhuman ones. |
| 01:31 | < Someone> | MFZ feels like it works best by imagining the combat as animesque so I can't help but build laser swords, though. |
| 01:31 | < Someone> | If I strike lucky I'll find the parts to make a pilebunker on Saturday, though. |
| 01:31 | < Someone> | every mecha thing needs pilebunkers. every oooone |
| 01:32 | < FlakManiak> | I'm really the opposite; I want sleek (or impressively bulky) humanoids. I want to imagine them dashing around and making anime poses and swinging swords. |
| 01:32 | < Someone> | heheh. |
| 01:32 | < Someone> | I do like the designs I've seen. Like I can't help but see the charm in the spindly humanoids with swords because, well, there's some real craftsmanship going on. |
| 01:33 | < FlakManiak> | It always impresses me how much of a spectrum there is in terms of people's aesthetic preferences. Because I really can't viscerally understand having different ones. But I know that people do, and that I'm as alien to them as they are to me. |
| 01:33 | < FlakManiak> | So I just don't end up commenting on designs whose style is not what I want. |
| 01:33 | < Someone> | m ;[ |
| 01:35 | < Someone> | I think it's because of different appreciation of mecha. Like, I love mechs for being vehicles that mix mechanical and organic movement, and I love seeing vehicles in various states of damage and destruction. I also grew up with mech piloting games that didn't abstract piloting control too much (helped by the fact that they could only shoot, not melee), so I can't help but revel in the thought of how it'd feel to pilot them. |
| 01:35 | < FlakManiak> | Also, in terms of design, I find it's helpful to find someone whose designs you're jealous of, and then strive to build until their designs no longer make you weep about your own. Until you have something you can look at and say "Yes, maybe I do think my designs are the best, and not so-and-so's." |
| 01:35 | < Someone> | oop, i should change my nick. |
| 01:35 | | Someone is now known as Mof0Suit |
| 01:36 | | Mof0Suit is now known as MoF0_Suit |
| 01:36 | < FlakManiak> | Hmm. Yeah I get that. The vehicle-style controls can be pretty compelling. |
| 01:36 | < MoF0_Suit> | grew up craving Steel Battalion. Still want to play it at least once against other people in my life. |
| 01:36 | < FlakManiak> | One of the first mecha things I saw was G Gundam, so "giant robots doing martial arts" feels very natural to me, and I don't even really think about control mechanisms, but if pushed I guess I would say "Of course they're mocap mecha like in G Gundam; it's more awesome that way!" |
| 01:37 | < MoF0_Suit> | Heheh. |
| 01:37 | < MoF0_Suit> | re the designs --> I'll probably keep it in mind. I don't like imitating stuff but it does help to at least look at joints/particulars and trying to copy those to just expand one's design language. |
| 01:37 | < MoF0_Suit> | I saw something recently, lemme see if i can find it. |
| 01:38 | < MoF0_Suit> | http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7137/7424291330_23ed67e922_c.jpg Well, for starters, I need to find these weird wheel-bearing things .I found them on the parts site so that means it shouldn't be too hard to procure them. |
| 01:38 | < FlakManiak> | Yeah I don't just mean imitation there. But I mean, find someone whose work drives you to outdo them. That might mean capturing some important thing about their style. |
| 01:38 | < MoF0_Suit> | mhm. |
| 01:38 | < FlakManiak> | (That said, the way I learned to make good mechs at all was "Just stare at MittenNinja's blog for a while." Hence my early designs using so many of his techniques.) |
| 01:39 | < MoF0_Suit> | https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7051/7032436085_07802040cf_z.jpg Is your stuff as big as the tallest one here? :P |
| 01:39 | < FlakManiak> | By wheel-bearing things, do you mean those two things that make up the, uh, front of the torso? |
| 01:39 | < FlakManiak> | No, really not as big as that one. |
| 01:40 | < MoF0_Suit> | Oh, no, the right arm's gun.If I find those I'll be able to make some really cool gun barrels that aren't just single-stud cylinders stacked together. |
| 01:40 | < FlakManiak> | These are mine: https://www.flickr.com/photos/105731182@N04/ |
| 01:40 | < MoF0_Suit> | it's got a bearing on the front and at the base. |
| 01:40 | < MoF0_Suit> | Heheh, the claws. |
| 01:41 | < FlakManiak> | Yeah, had to have claw-feet. |
| 01:41 | < MoF0_Suit> | Your chubs are probably fine for games, even if they're floating. |
| 01:42 | < FlakManiak> | The flight stands actually make them even more usable as game pieces. |
| 01:42 | < MoF0_Suit> | Oh hey, didn't consider that. You can put the stat dice under them. |
| 01:42 | < FlakManiak> | Also it's easy to move them around by the stand, and it's a point to measure from, etc. |
| 01:42 | < MoF0_Suit> | mm... |
| 01:42 | < FlakManiak> | And of course, who doesn't love flying mecha? (Well, you might not.) |
| 01:43 | < MoF0_Suit> | The main visual-dissonance problem with MFZ is that if you make a mech too tall, it won't reasonably be able to even crouch behind cover (defined as something 3 bricks tall or taller). I imagine people probably have house rules adjusting cover size if they play with larger mechs, though. |
| 01:43 | < MoF0_Suit> | And hey, the rules were written with the Chub in mind, as far as I know. |
| 01:43 | < FlakManiak> | Hmm, yeah, that would be a little jarring. |
| 01:43 | < FlakManiak> | But I'm in general pretty okay with heavy game abstractions. |
| 01:43 | < MoF0_Suit> | Oh, yeah, I don't mean to say, that would stop people from playing with you or anything, heh. |
| 01:43 | < MoF0_Suit> | it all depends on who you're playing with. |
| 01:44 | < FlakManiak> | And I'm more of a board/card/video game type person than a wargamer, so having things very gamified sits well with me. |
| 01:44 | < MoF0_Suit> | m. |
| 01:44 | < MoF0_Suit> | i am amused at the pegleg mech. |
| 01:44 | < MoF0_Suit> | by the* |
| 01:44 | < FlakManiak> | Yeah, I just had to, since they were pirates. |
| 01:44 | < FlakManiak> | It's a shame I never figured out how to properly integrate a hook hand. |
| 01:44 | < FlakManiak> | Wracked my brains on that for ages before giving up. |
| 01:45 | < FlakManiak> | And have been percolating on it ever since. |
| 01:45 | < MoF0_Suit> | I guess they never released a minifig claw or anything? |
| 01:45 | < FlakManiak> | At some point, perhaps, I'll find a way to properly attach the towball hook. |
| 01:46 | < FlakManiak> | There are some claw-type things, but I really want to use this piece: http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=30395 |
| 01:46 | < MoF0_Suit> | https://www.flickr.com/photos/105731182@N04/11881980965/ naturally, I like this mech a lot, given what i previously said about non-humanoids. Reminds me of the Rifleman: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JeeAIsrMUDc/TUNASsEZk_I/AAAAAAAAAwc/sMqUTiPhMO0/s1600/ rifleman%252Btorso%252Bturned.JPG |
| 01:46 | < MoF0_Suit> | What does that ball even connect to? :v |
| 01:46 | < FlakManiak> | And the minifig-ish claw things... Don't really evoke hook hand. |
| 01:46 | < FlakManiak> | You know the joints in the Mixels sets? The small ball-and-socket ones? It's the same type of ball as those. |
| 01:46 | < MoF0_Suit> | m, never had those. My legos are oooold. |
| 01:47 | < FlakManiak> | It used to be that all the sockets for that type of ball had a very loose fit and would let them swing around. |
| 01:47 | < FlakManiak> | So the parts you'd have that would connect would be that old type. |
| 01:47 | < MoF0_Suit> | You could probably attach the claw to the underside of a 2-stud plate, just sticking using its stud into it. If the ball gets in the way, you can just stick a grey single-plate single-peg bit on top of the claw. |
| 01:47 | < MoF0_Suit> | I dunno if that'd look good enough for you, but :v |
| 01:47 | < FlakManiak> | Yeah, there are definitely ways to get it "connected at all", but I really want it to be "connected almost seamlessly". |
| 01:48 | < FlakManiak> | Maybe I just need to take a hacksaw to it and chop off the ball, and put the remaining tiny bit of bar into an open stud. |
| 01:48 | < FlakManiak> | I'm not above, uh, "customizing" pieces, though I haven't had particular reason to do so. |
| 01:48 | < FlakManiak> | I guess my one criterion would be that it look right and not like "someone took a hacksaw to this and I can see so." |
| 01:48 | < MoF0_Suit> | heh. |
| 01:49 | < MoF0_Suit> | That's what sanding is for! |
| 01:49 | < FlakManiak> | And yeah the transparent green guys were a little out of my comfort zone. I went for a specifically different aesthetic with them. |
| 01:49 | < FlakManiak> | Worked out in the end. |
| 01:50 | < MoF0_Suit> | https://www.flickr.com/photos/105731182@N04/11881994995/ lol, i remember looking at one of these wings in my parts piles and going "well, *that's* blowing my mecha scales out of the water" |
| 01:50 | < FlakManiak> | They came out pretty small, which I was very worried about at first, but whatever, all my various armies are different scales. |
| 01:50 | < MoF0_Suit> | although, i think the one i have is bigger. |
| 01:51 | < FlakManiak> | Ah, yeah, there are some much bigger versions of those. |
| 01:51 | < MoF0_Suit> | if you make a ton of armies at different "scales" you'd probably just be doing your playmates a fovour anyway. No need to be worried about scale mismatch. |
| 01:51 | < FlakManiak> | I'm gonna get some of the ones that are that width, but much longer, for an upcoming project. |
| 01:51 | < MoF0_Suit> | favour* less need* |
| 01:51 | < MoF0_Suit> | gl :v |
| 01:51 | < FlakManiak> | Yeah, I can match scale with various things, and mine are a sort of gradient so they're mostly okay with one another. |
| 01:52 | < FlakManiak> | I mean, yeah, the blue dragons probably shouldn't face the transparent green guys. |
| 01:52 | < MoF0_Suit> | heh. |
| 01:52 | < FlakManiak> | And the Dragon Tyrant (the claw-feet one) really isn't particularly a game piece at all. |
| 01:52 | < MoF0_Suit> | actually, question about http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7137/7424291330_23ed67e922_c.jpg - that orange eye is mounted on a non-standard piece, isn't it? |
| 01:53 | < FlakManiak> | I can't tell what it's mounted on, or what that, in turn, is mounted on. |
| 01:53 | < FlakManiak> | Ask MittenNinja. |
| 01:53 | < MoF0_Suit> | heh. |
| 01:57 | < MoF0_Suit> | http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1397/98/1397981523199.jpg I suggest building this. |
| 01:57 | < MoF0_Suit> | You'll never think about articulation ever again. |
| 01:57 | < MoF0_Suit> | i dunno if it'll give you a hotlinking error, but hopefully not... |
| 01:58 | < FlakManiak> | That's Zizy, right? |
| 01:59 | < MoF0_Suit> | No idea. |
| 01:59 | < FlakManiak> | And yeah, at some point I'll end up making cores that grandiose, and I'll /love/ it. At least, until I have to adjust and pose the things. You have no idea how annoying the wings on the blue dragons are. |
| 01:59 | < FlakManiak> | Nine different points of rotation per wing. Eugh. |
| 02:00 | < FlakManiak> | But they look great! |
| 02:01 | < MoF0_Suit> | nine, lol. |
| 02:02 | < FlakManiak> | Yeah, it's... Almost made me regret building those wings. But not quite. |
| 02:06 | < MoF0_Suit> | well, i'm gonna go /away. Working on typing up the rules more nicely so that I get them and other people will be able to get them. |
| 02:06 | < MoF0_Suit> | Cheers. |
| 02:07 | < FlakManiak> | See ya. |
| 04:17 | < MoF0_Suit> | yo, you might find this thread useful should you try to demo this game elsewhere. http://mobileframehangar.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4350&start=40 |
| 04:26 | | MoF0_Suit [Someone__@Nightstar-cohisb.cpe.sourcecable.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 15:10 | | Someone [Someone__@Nightstar-cohisb.cpe.sourcecable.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 15:11 | | Someone is now known as MoF0_Suit |
| 15:34 | | MoF0_Suit [Someone__@Nightstar-cohisb.cpe.sourcecable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| --- Log closed Sat May 09 00:00:47 2015 |