| --- Log opened Sun Jun 01 00:00:37 2014 |
| 00:36 | | addking [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-av0skc.mi.comcast.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 00:36 | < addking> | bleh! |
| 00:37 | < Soren> | Yeah, it seems like your internet doesnāt want to play with IRC. |
| 00:49 | < addking> | it's the just the webchat today |
| 00:49 | < addking> | It was just coming up and crashing, or coming up, but then dying. |
| 00:49 | < addking> | not a crash - just a 'this page isn't working now' |
| 00:49 | < addking> | =/ |
| 01:12 | | mraichelson [mraichelson@Nightstar-cvmeup.client.mchsi.com] has joined #mf0 |
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| 02:46 | | Bed23Ric [me@Nightstar-gdu.5h8.120.37.IP] has joined #mf0 |
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| 03:04 | < addking> | hmm. getting a frigate to the size i want is very tough |
| 03:10 | | Mantisking [NSwebIRC@Nightstar-rg9mk7.ma.comcast.net] has joined #mf0 |
| 03:10 | < Mantisking> | Hello? |
| 03:12 | < addking> | hey |
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| 10:34 | | Bed23Ric is now known as Ced23Ric |
| 14:45 | < Ced23Ric> | Soren, are you awake yet? |
| 14:50 | | Rex [4a81f8c9@Nightstar-qtq4f2.mibbit.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 14:50 | | shadowclasper [62b3c672@Nightstar-obfcgl.mibbit.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 14:50 | < shadowclasper> | Heya |
| 14:50 | < Ced23Ric> | Ollah, gnetlemen. |
| 14:50 | < Ced23Ric> | Yupp, that's how I type. |
| 14:50 | < shadowclasper> | so what's the conversation up for debate? |
| 14:50 | < Ced23Ric> | Facefirst. |
| 14:50 | < Rex> | I can dig it. |
| 14:51 | < Ced23Ric> | I dunno, I guess Rex wanted to have a chat. |
| 14:51 | < Rex> | I will send you a Skype request shortly. |
| 14:51 | < Ced23Ric> | The topic probably is: How to into running a /mf0/ project, re: Bravo Defense. |
| 14:52 | < Rex> | I don't exactly have much to ask at the moment. |
| 14:52 | < Rex> | But yes, basically. |
| 14:52 | < Ced23Ric> | I'm idling here all day erry day. |
| 14:53 | < Ced23Ric> | Skype goes to my phone if I am not here, for superturbourgent stuff, but that's probably excessive. |
| 14:53 | < Ced23Ric> | But if I am around, the name's like this. If it is Bed23Ric, I am sleeping or forgot to change it. |
| 14:53 | < Ced23Ric> | Either way, "Ced" sends a ping that raises my awareness. |
| 14:53 | < Ced23Ric> | Also, meet Soren, who is still asleep and forgot to change his name, too. |
| 14:55 | < shadowclasper> | Hmmm... Well I'm looking over the BD document. and Some things I'm getting from it |
| 14:55 | < shadowclasper> | We want frames to dominate the battlefield, but we don't want the other guys to be invalidated. |
| 14:55 | < Ced23Ric> | It's wild and unsorted and contradicting at points. |
| 14:55 | < shadowclasper> | correct? |
| 14:55 | < Ced23Ric> | Yes, the fine line. |
| 14:56 | < shadowclasper> | General order of effectiveness Frames > Vehicles > Infantry |
| 14:56 | < Ced23Ric> | Which, I think, could be achieved by a cap of 5 for non-frames with a chance for "criticals". Maybe. |
| 14:56 | < shadowclasper> | maybe... |
| 14:56 | < Ced23Ric> | As in, a 6 needs to be confirmed as a hit twice and then counts like a hit. You know what I mean= |
| 14:56 | < shadowclasper> | It could also be achieved in other ways... I think the easiest way is to try and not alter the system too much |
| 14:56 | < shadowclasper> | we want to keep it rules light |
| 14:56 | < shadowclasper> | that means not to much in the way of alternate rules. |
| 14:57 | < Ced23Ric> | Very true, but we won't get around it if we don't do something. |
| 14:57 | < shadowclasper> | I think alternate 'systems' will be the most effective means of doing things |
| 14:57 | < Ced23Ric> | Because otherwise, we end up with frames in a different shape over different units. |
| 14:57 | < shadowclasper> | true |
| 14:58 | < shadowclasper> | so there have to be SOME alterante rules |
| 14:58 | < shadowclasper> | for Infantry I think the whole "if it hits then it kills" thing is probably the best thing |
| 14:58 | < shadowclasper> | also running over infantry = instant kills |
| 14:58 | < shadowclasper> | to balance it, Infantry should ignore terrain for the purposes of movement, regardless of mobility |
| 14:58 | < shadowclasper> | Humans don't have to worry about tripping over shit |
| 14:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, you need to think about the roles of military units. |
| 14:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Artillery is fire power with poor defense and poor mobility. |
| 14:59 | < Rex> | You may want to think about deleting that post with your contact info unless you want it floating around more than it is. |
| 14:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Tanks are pure mobility with poor defense and poor fire power. |
| 14:59 | < shadowclasper> | Infantry are feet on the ground. They hold locations best of pretty much everything |
| 14:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Infantry is pure defense with poor firepower and poor mobility. |
| 14:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. |
| 14:59 | < Ced23Ric> | Nothing can hunker down like Infantry. |
| 14:59 | < shadowclasper> | so we make it so that they have an overwhelming advantage in holding stations |
| 15:00 | < Ced23Ric> | Tanks are fast, but exposed and easy to hit. |
| 15:00 | < shadowclasper> | but if they get caught out in the open |
| 15:00 | < shadowclasper> | they're fucked. |
| 15:00 | < shadowclasper> | Frames are the best of all the worlds. |
| 15:00 | < shadowclasper> | you mean flyers |
| 15:00 | < Ced23Ric> | Flyers are mobility. |
| 15:00 | < Ced23Ric> | At least, by conventional concepts of militaries. |
| 15:00 | < Ced23Ric> | I think we need "go to ground" and tremendous bonusses in the defense of stations for infantry. |
| 15:00 | < Ced23Ric> | Infantry can have a d6B for all I care. |
| 15:01 | < Ced23Ric> | Let them roll like frames. |
| 15:01 | < shadowclasper> | I think everybody needs rolls for everything, just in different amounts. |
| 15:01 | < Ced23Ric> | Mabye even give them the d6B not as a system but as a standard bonus die. |
| 15:01 | < shadowclasper> | possibly |
| 15:01 | < Ced23Ric> | See, in IO, Frigates are lighter than capital ships. Limited to 3 systems. |
| 15:01 | < shadowclasper> | as an action perhaps similar to how frames get 1d8G if they have no ranged weapons? |
| 15:01 | < Rex> | I could see that as infantry would be small and harder to hit. |
| 15:01 | < Ced23Ric> | So they have 5 hit points - WW and 3 systems. |
| 15:01 | < shadowclasper> | oooh I like this... |
| 15:02 | < Rex> | Like shooting squirrels. |
| 15:02 | < Ced23Ric> | But they get a d6G bonus. |
| 15:02 | < Ced23Ric> | And cap ships have 4 systems, but no access to G. |
| 15:02 | < shadowclasper> | okay, if that's already established in IO then we could definitely borrow from it. |
| 15:02 | < Ced23Ric> | That alone makes them quite distinctive. |
| 15:02 | < shadowclasper> | Sounds good for tanks. |
| 15:02 | < shadowclasper> | or no |
| 15:02 | < shadowclasper> | hmm |
| 15:02 | < shadowclasper> | because we want to represent buggies too |
| 15:02 | < Ced23Ric> | So we could assign ONE bonus system per "class" and limit them to 3 systems. |
| 15:02 | < shadowclasper> | I think that could work. |
| 15:03 | < Ced23Ric> | Buggies just use d8G instead of d6G and are limited to 2 systems. ;) |
| 15:03 | < shadowclasper> | Tanks get a bonus R? Flyers get bonus G? Infantry get bonus B? |
| 15:03 | < Ced23Ric> | But, yeah, the 3 open / 1 fixed bonus spread is a simple and pre-established system. |
| 15:03 | < shadowclasper> | hmmm |
| 15:03 | < shadowclasper> | I'll think on this. I want to work with infantry |
| 15:03 | < Ced23Ric> | Tanks would be bonus G aswell, just like fliers. I'd just give fliers 2d8G. |
| 15:04 | < shadowclasper> | because giving them bonus B as a normal thing feels wrong |
| 15:04 | < shadowclasper> | it makes them tougher than they should be. |
| 15:04 | < Ced23Ric> | But limit them to two systems and they cannt cap stations. |
| 15:04 | < Ced23Ric> | Actually, it doesn't. |
| 15:04 | < shadowclasper> | oh? |
| 15:04 | < Ced23Ric> | WW 3 + d6B bonus is strictly weaker than WW +4. |
| 15:04 | < Ced23Ric> | Because the bonus die is NOT a hitpoint. |
| 15:05 | < Ced23Ric> | bonus die cannot be sacrificed to damage taken. |
| 15:05 | < Ced23Ric> | So, even though their hardness would be == frame, their hitpoints are less. |
| 15:05 | < shadowclasper> | oooh, I see what you mean. |
| 15:05 | < Ced23Ric> | If you want to be a cunt, make them WW +2 +d6B/d6Y bonus fixed. |
| 15:05 | < shadowclasper> | and I'd make infantry be WW 2+d8B? |
| 15:05 | < Ced23Ric> | Then they have only 2/3rds of the hitpoints of a frame. |
| 15:06 | < shadowclasper> | oh wait, the d6Y is much better |
| 15:06 | < Ced23Ric> | Let's not get into d8 territory too happily. |
| 15:06 | < shadowclasper> | yeah |
| 15:06 | < shadowclasper> | true. |
| 15:06 | < Ced23Ric> | You know how infantry calls out shit all the time, right? |
| 15:06 | < Ced23Ric> | "I got enemy mortar in sector Alpha Tango Your Mom Niner!" |
| 15:06 | < Ced23Ric> | So, the d6Y makes sense. They can dig in and radio Control. |
| 15:06 | < shadowclasper> | yeah, they're good at getting targetting information in acurately |
| 15:06 | < shadowclasper> | because they're right there, nothing to interfere with their systems |
| 15:07 | < Ced23Ric> | And, yeah - WW +2 +2 bonus die is considerably weaker. |
| 15:07 | < shadowclasper> | I'd say infantry gets a 1d8B when they're in a station |
| 15:07 | < shadowclasper> | but no other time. |
| 15:07 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, and they have multiple eyes. That's quite usefull. :D |
| 15:07 | < Ced23Ric> | Sounds good to me. |
| 15:07 | < Ced23Ric> | No cover, but d8B. |
| 15:07 | < shadowclasper> | yep. |
| 15:07 | < Ced23Ric> | Call it something like "Fortify". |
| 15:07 | < shadowclasper> | yeah |
| 15:08 | < Ced23Ric> | Tanks, now, like the Abrams, have a top speed of 70kph. |
| 15:08 | < Rex> | Sorry, I needed to take a call, reading up. |
| 15:08 | < Ced23Ric> | Stuff like the FAV desert buggy is 130kph. |
| 15:09 | < Ced23Ric> | Frames can run easily ... mhmm ... well, let's look at BattleTech. Even though Joshua and Soren hate it. |
| 15:09 | < Ced23Ric> | The Fire Moth runs 190 kph. |
| 15:09 | < Rex> | Instead of "Fortify", how does "Entrench" sound? |
| 15:10 | < Ced23Ric> | But that's a 25t light frame, so something with 2G and no/little weapons. |
| 15:10 | < Ced23Ric> | Entrench sounds like their getting the shovels and go full Deathkorps of Krieg on that station. |
| 15:10 | < Ced23Ric> | But I admit that Fortify sounds like engineers are stapling steel plates everywhere. |
| 15:11 | < Rex> | Fortify sounds to me more like they're fixing to do damage. Maybe just "Hunker Down". Simple and to the point? |
| 15:11 | < Ced23Ric> | Fair enough. |
| 15:11 | < Ced23Ric> | Take notes as you go along, eh? |
| 15:11 | < Ced23Ric> | I scribble shit on paper all the time. |
| 15:11 | < Rex> | I am. |
| 15:12 | < Ced23Ric> | So, someone said, no arty for Infantry. |
| 15:12 | < Ced23Ric> | I tend to agree. |
| 15:12 | < shadowclasper> | Okay. So we're happy generally with the purposes we're seeking for each group? |
| 15:12 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. |
| 15:12 | < Ced23Ric> | I am. |
| 15:12 | < shadowclasper> | Tanks are generally harder to pop, but they have some options including speedier stuff or blastier stuff. |
| 15:12 | < Ced23Ric> | Frames get the d6 everywhere, with d8 reds and d8 Gs. |
| 15:12 | < shadowclasper> | Flyers are fast |
| 15:12 | < shadowclasper> | super fast. |
| 15:12 | < Ced23Ric> | Tanks are easy to pop, anon. |
| 15:12 | < shadowclasper> | lh |
| 15:12 | < shadowclasper> | oh okay |
| 15:12 | < shadowclasper> | so what are tanks? |
| 15:12 | < Ced23Ric> | Fast. |
| 15:12 | < shadowclasper> | I thought that was flyers? |
| 15:13 | < Ced23Ric> | Tanks and Flyers = mobility. |
| 15:13 | < shadowclasper> | okay |
| 15:13 | < Ced23Ric> | You can still differentiate them. |
| 15:13 | < Ced23Ric> | Let's say, only tanks can bring 2 weapon systems. |
| 15:13 | < Ced23Ric> | Boom, d8R is open to non-frames, but only on tanks. |
| 15:13 | < shadowclasper> | maybe tanks should be shootiest? They're essentially guns on wheels right? |
| 15:13 | < shadowclasper> | that works |
| 15:14 | < shadowclasper> | Tanks are shootier but less speedy than air frames. |
| 15:14 | < Ced23Ric> | Firepower, in conventional military concepts, is artillery. (This is just something to consider, not holy writ.) |
| 15:14 | < shadowclasper> | flyers* |
| 15:14 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. |
| 15:14 | < Ced23Ric> | So we have fast movers with WW+2+2d8G. My suggestion. |
| 15:14 | < shadowclasper> | and both can get 'transport' systems, which sacrifice dice in order to transport infantry? |
| 15:14 | < Ced23Ric> | Buggies with WW+3+1d8G (no double weapons). |
| 15:15 | < Ced23Ric> | Tanks with WW+3+1d6G (double weapons). |
| 15:15 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, for transports, I'd steal from IO again. |
| 15:15 | < Ced23Ric> | IO has "frame catapults", which launch frame companies at other ships. |
| 15:15 | < Ced23Ric> | We can take what we need from those rules and tweak where necessary. |
| 15:16 | < Ced23Ric> | Valid carries would be tanks (APC) and buggies (troop trucks). |
| 15:16 | < Ced23Ric> | Fast movers not so much - those would need helos and that's another subsection. |
| 15:16 | < Ced23Ric> | IF we use helos, I'd kit them as such: |
| 15:16 | < Ced23Ric> | WW +2 +d8G +d6Y, can hover, cannot capture. |
| 15:17 | < Ced23Ric> | Re: flyers: WW +2 +2d8G, cannot capture, cannot hover. |
| 15:17 | < Rex> | I apologize for not being very chatty at the moment. |
| 15:18 | < Ced23Ric> | No worries mate. I am used to typing alot. ;) |
| 15:18 | < Rex> | I promise that later you'll wish I'd shut up. |
| 15:18 | < shadowclasper> | I think we could have fast movers who were transports |
| 15:18 | < shadowclasper> | VTOLs |
| 15:19 | < shadowclasper> | like the galaxy transport from Planetside |
| 15:19 | < Ced23Ric> | I have a very pragmatic reason against that. |
| 15:19 | < Rex> | Here's my question: |
| 15:19 | < shadowclasper> | oh? |
| 15:19 | < Rex> | However |
| 15:20 | < Ced23Ric> | Such VTOLs fly into the combat zone, drop the troops and leave the combat zone. If the enemy fire is too dense, they don't even fly in, nor do they evac. |
| 15:20 | < Ced23Ric> | Such VTOLs are fast, fragile and generally only equipped with small arms to overwatch an LZ. |
| 15:20 | < Rex> | Do we want to flesh out a bunch of concepts right now like troop carriers, or do we want to get more basic stuff hammered out and work on more nonessential stuff later? |
| 15:20 | < shadowclasper> | I think basic stuff |
| 15:21 | < Ced23Ric> | Thusly, poorly equipped for any continued engagement, and thusly dead choice in a company in the field. |
| 15:21 | < shadowclasper> | we can bounce other ideas around. |
| 15:21 | < shadowclasper> | yes |
| 15:21 | < shadowclasper> | but |
| 15:21 | < shadowclasper> | future |
| 15:21 | < Ced23Ric> | We need the units that STAY in the field, anon. |
| 15:21 | < shadowclasper> | chances are we'd have VTOLs that were tougher |
| 15:21 | < shadowclasper> | due to metamaterials such as fullrene and similar. |
| 15:21 | < Ced23Ric> | Because otherwise, someone will come up with AWACS, non-combattant spotters, etc. pp. ;) |
| 15:21 | < shadowclasper> | I think we can say 'rule of cool' |
| 15:22 | < Ced23Ric> | Rule of cool and in-verse realism sometimes clash. |
| 15:22 | < Ced23Ric> | I like to lean towards less "cool" and more "makes sense". |
| 15:22 | < shadowclasper> | true, but we're already countering in-verse realism by having anything on the ground that's not a Frame |
| 15:22 | < Ced23Ric> | I get enough magical realm stuff shoved down my throat by cuddly brainslugs. |
| 15:22 | < shadowclasper> | since it's been explicitly stated almost nothing else is used. |
| 15:22 | < Ced23Ric> | True. |
| 15:23 | < Ced23Ric> | But a chink in the armour doesn't mean we can go in a chain mail bikini. |
| 15:23 | < shadowclasper> | true |
| 15:23 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, let's summarize the above. |
| 15:23 | < shadowclasper> | but I'd argue that what we want is a system where people can look at infantry, tanks, and flyers, and get what they want with the minimum of looking up tables and such. |
| 15:23 | < shadowclasper> | alright |
| 15:23 | < Ced23Ric> | The idea of reducing hitpoints by assigning bonus dice and reducing system slots has merit. It allows for diverse classes. Confirm? |
| 15:24 | < Rex> | I would tend to agree. |
| 15:25 | < Ced23Ric> | Infantry needs to be fragile in their durability, not in their hardness. They are pretty damn good when they lock down. d8B around stations (maybe even in cover?), WW+2 +d6Y +d6B. Cannot use double weapons. CAN use two different weapons (melee/direct-fire only). Addendum? |
| 15:26 | < Rex> | Melee could be Satchel Charges. |
| 15:26 | < Ced23Ric> | I'd think a squad with flamers and heavy 25mm guns (Re: Titanfall, for example.) would be pretty cool. |
| 15:26 | < Ced23Ric> | Satchel charges are also a go. |
| 15:27 | < Rex> | I'm drawing from the game Uprising there. |
| 15:27 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, that works too. |
| 15:27 | < Ced23Ric> | Alright. Onwards. |
| 15:28 | < Ced23Ric> | Tanks are fast and pack a punch. WW+3+d6G. CAN equip double weapons, making them the only non-frame unit with access to d8R. Tanks can capture. |
| 15:28 | < Ced23Ric> | +Can carry troops when equipped with troop compartment. |
| 15:28 | < Rex> | Is that a system? |
| 15:28 | < Ced23Ric> | Yupp. |
| 15:29 | < Ced23Ric> | Re: IO. |
| 15:29 | < Rex> | How "real" do we want to be? |
| 15:29 | < Ced23Ric> | That's close enough. Or what do you mean? |
| 15:29 | < Rex> | We're saying tanks are fast because they are fast in the real world. |
| 15:29 | < Ced23Ric> | And generally used for their mobility. Yes. |
| 15:29 | < Rex> | But in the real world, tanks are useless without infantry support. |
| 15:29 | < Rex> | In more... |
| 15:30 | < shadowclasper> | I'd say we let them be independent |
| 15:30 | < Rex> | Urban situations, I suppose. |
| 15:30 | < Ced23Ric> | Something for later, after defining our classes. Point is taken. |
| 15:30 | < shadowclasper> | since remember, Frames take up the role of infantry in many cases. |
| 15:30 | < Rex> | Fair enough. |
| 15:30 | < shadowclasper> | and that's already covered with out system since all of these units are more support than anything else. |
| 15:31 | < shadowclasper> | anyway |
| 15:31 | < Ced23Ric> | Buggies/Trucks are even faster, but less armed. WW+3+d8G. CaANNOT equip double weapons. Can capture. Can carry troops when kitted out for it. |
| 15:31 | < shadowclasper> | right. |
| 15:32 | < shadowclasper> | when you're done defining, we should post this to the thread. |
| 15:32 | < Ced23Ric> | Fast movers are fasterest, but fragile. WW +2 +2d8G. Cannot capture. Cannot hover. Cannot carry troops. (Simplying here. VTOLs can be part of the helo category.) |
| 15:33 | < Ced23Ric> | Helos/VTOLs are fast but also fragile. WW +2 +d6Y +d8G. Can hover. Cannot capture. Can carry troops if kitted out for it. |
| 15:33 | < Ced23Ric> | All flyers always ignore all cover for the purpose of movement. |
| 15:33 | < Ced23Ric> | All vehicles cannot ignore cover, even with G systems equipped. |
| 15:33 | < Ced23Ric> | So, consider that added to each of the things there. |
| 15:33 | < shadowclasper> | Sounds good. |
| 15:34 | < Ced23Ric> | That would give a transport helo a sidegrade to a troop truck. |
| 15:34 | < Ced23Ric> | Helo is more fragile, but ignores cover as obstacles. |
| 15:34 | < shadowclasper> | I'd call them Air Support and Air Cavalry by the way Ced. |
| 15:34 | < Ced23Ric> | Truck has more hitpoints, but needs to drive around shit. |
| 15:35 | < Ced23Ric> | I know what you mean, but we might be abstracting too far. |
| 15:35 | < Ced23Ric> | Instant recognition is quite important for such classes. |
| 15:35 | < shadowclasper> | maybe but the terminology fits. |
| 15:35 | < shadowclasper> | but yeah |
| 15:35 | < shadowclasper> | moving on. |
| 15:35 | < Ced23Ric> | Also, explaining WHY we use this to define classes (Re: hitpoints = durability instead of hardness) would be an important preliminary to these classes. |
| 15:36 | < shadowclasper> | <nods> |
| 15:37 | < shadowclasper> | I'd personally prefer to somehow merge Tanks and Buggies into just Tanks, and Fighter and Helos into just Flyers, but failing that this works. |
| 15:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, you can be sneaky. |
| 15:37 | < shadowclasper> | waait... IDEA! |
| 15:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Call it vehicles and air assets, then give them subsections. |
| 15:37 | < shadowclasper> | Flyers get just WW 2+1d8G. |
| 15:38 | < shadowclasper> | but they can 'sprint' when they have no transport module |
| 15:38 | < shadowclasper> | same way that a Frame can sprint when they have no direct fire or artillery weaponry |
| 15:38 | < shadowclasper> | :) |
| 15:38 | < Ced23Ric> | Mhmm, instead of "no ranged", they sprint with "no troops" ? |
| 15:38 | < shadowclasper> | yep :D |
| 15:38 | < shadowclasper> | boom, no need for multiple types of flyers :D |
| 15:38 | < Ced23Ric> | Why is my AH64 Apache as fast as my F22? |
| 15:39 | < Ced23Ric> | And why can neither or both hover? |
| 15:39 | < Ced23Ric> | Etc. pp. |
| 15:39 | < Ced23Ric> | Not trying to be a dick, but I feel like those deffo need to be seperated. |
| 15:39 | < shadowclasper> | because of modeling and craziness, I don't think we need to look too heavily into this. |
| 15:39 | < shadowclasper> | but if you want a very serious reason |
| 15:39 | < Ced23Ric> | Not only are must helos and VTOLs attached to the army/navy and not the airforce, worldwide, but they do behave quite differently. |
| 15:40 | < Ced23Ric> | Admittedly, there's fast movers in any branch. |
| 15:40 | < shadowclasper> | jet propulsion in combat has all but been gotten rid of in the future. It's a waste of fuel, and G-Manipulation makes it far easier and fuel efficient for helos and VTOLs |
| 15:40 | < shadowclasper> | remember, a key point of the setting is that most frames were originally designed for labor, not combat |
| 15:40 | < Ced23Ric> | True. |
| 15:40 | < shadowclasper> | I imagine the same is true for pretty much everything on the colonies |
| 15:40 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, you know what? Bravo Defense only works on a few planets anyway. |
| 15:41 | < Ced23Ric> | Heavily industrialized, yet remote and distant from Earth. |
| 15:41 | < shadowclasper> | true. If you think we need more types |
| 15:41 | < shadowclasper> | then go for it |
| 15:41 | < shadowclasper> | I just really want to condense if possible |
| 15:41 | < shadowclasper> | it allows more customization of forces |
| 15:41 | < Ced23Ric> | You need a strong industry with poor Earth influence is a reason to produce non-frame combat assets. |
| 15:41 | < shadowclasper> | which in turn means more fun |
| 15:41 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, yes it does. But I feel like such a mild level of abstraction does not cut into it. |
| 15:41 | < shadowclasper> | since customization of forces is the big draw of this. |
| 15:42 | < shadowclasper> | so making units as little niche as possible |
| 15:42 | < Ced23Ric> | If anything, having two classes for vehicles and flyers will draw in a lot of 40k types. |
| 15:42 | < shadowclasper> | maybe |
| 15:42 | < shadowclasper> | How about this? |
| 15:42 | < shadowclasper> | we propose both systems on the thread. |
| 15:42 | < Ced23Ric> | Many complaints are the lack of weight classes. |
| 15:42 | < Ced23Ric> | That's fair. |
| 15:42 | < Ced23Ric> | Almost 1700 here. |
| 15:43 | < shadowclasper> | For tanks we have it so that the choice is between double weapons and sprinting. |
| 15:43 | < Ced23Ric> | In 2h15m I'm heading to the c-base, presenting MFZ to the circle for project approval. |
| 15:43 | < shadowclasper> | c-base? |
| 15:43 | < shadowclasper> | circle? |
| 15:43 | < Ced23Ric> | The bar I'll finish the Brick Crusade. |
| 15:43 | < shadowclasper> | You've lost me. |
| 15:43 | < Ced23Ric> | Posted some pictures a few threads back. |
| 15:43 | < Ced23Ric> | Oh. |
| 15:43 | < Ced23Ric> | I am the German Demo Event anon, too. |
| 15:44 | < shadowclasper> | OH! |
| 15:44 | < shadowclasper> | OKAY! |
| 15:44 | < Ced23Ric> | :D |
| 15:44 | < shadowclasper> | Sounds good :D |
| 15:44 | < Rex> | The space themed bar? |
| 15:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. |
| 15:44 | < Rex> | Or...something like that. |
| 15:44 | < shadowclasper> | okay, one last class. Infantry, how do you define them? |
| 15:44 | < Ced23Ric> | "Crashed Spacestation" is what they call it. |
| 15:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Infantry, right. |
| 15:44 | < Ced23Ric> | Sec, scrolling. |
| 15:44 | < Rex> | The one talking about the "super /fit/ game store owner"? |
| 15:45 | < Rex> | More or less the same words. |
| 15:45 | < shadowclasper> | once we agree on that, can you type out the list (and alternates) on the thread, or you can type out the list we've reached and I'll type out the alternates for flyers and tanks? |
| 15:45 | < Ced23Ric> | [16:25:31] <Ced23Ric> Infantry needs to be fragile in their durability, not in their hardness. They are pretty damn good when they lock down. d8B around stations and cover, WW+2 +d6Y +d6B. Cannot use double weapons. CAN use two different weapons (melee/direct-fire only). |
| 15:46 | < shadowclasper> | okay cool |
| 15:46 | < shadowclasper> | That's everything |
| 15:46 | < Ced23Ric> | Well, you guys take care of it, I'm just throwing in my experiences here to shape the ideas with it. |
| 15:46 | < shadowclasper> | Type it up on the thread |
| 15:46 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. |
| 15:46 | < Ced23Ric> | Rex: c-base is the hackerspace thing. |
| 15:46 | < shadowclasper> | Alrighty, you want me to do the thread then? |
| 15:46 | < Ced23Ric> | The /fit/ guy is a different store. |
| 15:46 | < Ced23Ric> | Coordinate with Rex, mate. He said he's gonna take the hat on this. Or share it between the two of you. |
| 15:47 | < shadowclasper> | kk |
| 15:47 | < Rex> | I was just wondering if it was the story I was thinking about. |
| 15:47 | < shadowclasper> | Rex, you may have the hat. |
| 15:47 | < Rex> | Spiffy |
| 15:47 | < shadowclasper> | I have enough hats IRL sadly |
| 15:47 | < Ced23Ric> | Consider me a flaky asset when some veteran insight is needed, and also the mailbox where the final product goes for designing. |
| 15:47 | < shadowclasper> | sure XD |
| 15:47 | < Rex> | Shadow, add my on Skype, if you will. Black.Kakari |
| 15:47 | < Ced23Ric> | Otherwise, Rex runs the show for BD now. |
| 15:48 | < shadowclasper> | Hetros here |
| 15:48 | < Rex> | I can't type worth a damn today. |
| 15:48 | < Ced23Ric> | Also, Re: Design. Want BD to get a classic olive crab colour palette? |
| 15:48 | < Ced23Ric> | Or rather some urban camouflage grey tones? |
| 15:48 | < shadowclasper> | I think urban camouflage... |
| 15:48 | < shadowclasper> | but if we could mix in olive green borders since that's the classic color? |
| 15:48 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah. Looks more modern, less Vietnam, eh? |
| 15:48 | < Rex> | I dunno |
| 15:49 | < Rex> | Olive crab sounds pretty neat. |
| 15:49 | | Rex [4a81f8c9@Nightstar-qtq4f2.mibbit.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] |
| 15:49 | < Ced23Ric> | >an hero |
| 15:49 | | Rex [4a81f8c9@Nightstar-obfcgl.mibbit.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 15:49 | < Rex> | Well that just happened. |
| 15:49 | < shadowclasper> | you died |
| 15:49 | < Ced23Ric> | Olive drab, like the colour palette of ... mhmm. Multicam, I think. |
| 15:49 | < shadowclasper> | now you've been reborn |
| 15:50 | < shadowclasper> | You are chosen of Osiris obviously |
| 15:50 | < Ced23Ric> | That looks quite snazzy, to be honest. |
| 15:50 | < Ced23Ric> | http://bbc123.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/WTP-297-Multicam.jpg, |
| 15:50 | < Ced23Ric> | (delete the comma, fat fingers.) |
| 15:50 | < Ced23Ric> | >mfw it works anyway |
| 15:50 | < Ced23Ric> | Th-thanks, Firefox. |
| 15:51 | < Rex> | Alright, I need to get going soon. |
| 15:51 | < shadowclasper> | That works Ced |
| 15:51 | < shadowclasper> | Is anyone here thread OP? |
| 15:52 | < Rex> | Would you like to partner up with me on this MO dealy? |
| 15:52 | < shadowclasper> | MO? |
| 15:52 | < Rex> | BD, my bad. |
| 15:52 | < shadowclasper> | sure, when and where I can :) |
| 15:52 | < shadowclasper> | we can frame it a couple of ways |
| 15:52 | < Rex> | Pretty hype for MO, not gonna lie. |
| 15:52 | < shadowclasper> | MO being? >> |
| 15:53 | < shadowclasper> | oh |
| 15:53 | < shadowclasper> | the RPG format |
| 15:53 | < Rex> | Yiss |
| 15:53 | < shadowclasper> | I like the campaign format more personally |
| 15:53 | < shadowclasper> | but I'm a mordheim player |
| 15:53 | < shadowclasper> | Rex, before you go, can you type up the thread list of stats? Or do you need me to do it? |
| 15:53 | < Rex> | I figure we can both work separately and then exchange notes and iron out a few details when we get the chance. |
| 15:54 | < Rex> | Sound good? |
| 15:54 | < Rex> | I really knid of need to get going. |
| 15:54 | < shadowclasper> | okay, we'll comeback and compare notes. |
| 15:54 | < shadowclasper> | seeya Rex |
| 15:54 | < shadowclasper> | if I'm not on here drop a line in on my skype |
| 15:54 | < Rex> | Will do. |
| 15:55 | | Rex [4a81f8c9@Nightstar-obfcgl.mibbit.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] |
| 15:56 | < Ced23Ric> | I'm Thread OP. |
| 15:56 | < Ced23Ric> | Have been since #001. |
| 15:56 | < Ced23Ric> | The botched up #005 named #004 fro mthe 30th was another anon, but the rest was all me. |
| 16:01 | < shadowclasper> | Ced? are you a name in the thread? |
| 16:01 | < shadowclasper> | oh |
| 16:01 | < shadowclasper> | okay |
| 16:01 | < shadowclasper> | sure :) |
| 16:01 | < Ced23Ric> | I'm pretty sure I am. ;) |
| 16:01 | < shadowclasper> | Oh I don't mean that I'm just surprised XD |
| 16:01 | < shadowclasper> | anyway |
| 16:01 | < shadowclasper> | make sure to put the IRC in the OP from now on :D |
| 16:02 | < Ced23Ric> | I author Condensed, run the OPs, and am pretty much the source of most rules answers. |
| 16:02 | < Ced23Ric> | It's in the resources pastebin. |
| 16:02 | < Ced23Ric> | Think it should be more prominent? |
| 16:02 | < shadowclasper> | I think so. |
| 16:02 | < shadowclasper> | http://mibpaste.com/LUgudd |
| 16:02 | < shadowclasper> | this look alright for a post? A summary of what we've come up with. |
| 16:03 | < Ced23Ric> | Invalid link! |
| 16:03 | < Ced23Ric> | 10/10, would read again. |
| 16:03 | < shadowclasper> | D: |
| 16:03 | < Ced23Ric> | PasteBin.com is love. |
| 16:03 | < shadowclasper> | http://mibpaste.com/gFjnQA |
| 16:03 | < shadowclasper> | :< |
| 16:03 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, still invalid. |
| 16:03 | < shadowclasper> | http://pastebin.com/SrWTfCp5 |
| 16:05 | < Ced23Ric> | Two things: announce the hitpoints, in brackets. |
| 16:05 | < Ced23Ric> | (4 hitpoints) for fliers and infantry, (5 hitpoints) for vehicles. |
| 16:05 | < Ced23Ric> | And explain sprint again, in brackets, (+1d8G bonus). |
| 16:06 | < Ced23Ric> | And maybe point out that frames have 6 hitpoints. |
| 16:07 | < shadowclasper> | changes made. |
| 16:07 | < Ced23Ric> | Bu otherwise, as a preliminary post, that's good stuff. |
| 16:07 | < shadowclasper> | update about sprint will be put in 40 or so seconds |
| 16:08 | < shadowclasper> | I got autocorrected |
| 16:08 | < shadowclasper> | damn it |
| 16:08 | < shadowclasper> | well people will figure it out. |
| 16:49 | | mraichelson [mraichelson@Nightstar-cvmeup.client.mchsi.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 16:51 | | mraichelson [mraichelson@Nightstar-cvmeup.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client exited] |
| 16:57 | | mraichelson [mraichelson@Nightstar-cvmeup.client.mchsi.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 17:04 | | shadowclasper [62b3c672@Nightstar-obfcgl.mibbit.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] |
| 17:32 | | Rex [4a81f8c9@Nightstar-d81bfg.mibbit.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 17:35 | < Ced23Ric> | Welcome back, Rex. |
| 17:36 | < Ced23Ric> | Clasper posted something on the general, I elaborated on it. |
| 17:36 | < Ced23Ric> | No responses yet. |
| 17:51 | < Rex> | I plan on just sitting back until conversation starts up on it's own. Unless it takes it's sweet time, I'll just lett it happen. |
| 17:53 | < Ced23Ric> | Yeah, nah. |
| 17:53 | < Ced23Ric> | That's not really how things work, I found. |
| 17:53 | < Ced23Ric> | More often than not, you need to push a topic and even be controversial. |
| 17:53 | < Ced23Ric> | People won't do much unless someone starts it. |
| 18:09 | < Rex> | Very well. |
| 18:20 | | shadowclasper [62b3c672@Nightstar-d81bfg.mibbit.com] has joined #mf0 |
| 18:24 | < shadowclasper> | Word of advice to anyone commenting on something they've worked on. If you deliver your opinion on the piece, you do so as if you were a neutral party. Otherwise it sways results. I work in the game industry, and a base line state of gathing good data for improvements to a system |
| 18:24 | < shadowclasper> | is that you don't give your opinion on that system as the person who designed it. |
| 18:25 | < shadowclasper> | It either taints other people's opinion's against you as being intractable, or it sways people who otherwise wouldn't be swayed by your opinion. |
| 18:27 | < Soren> | Hmrm? |
| 18:28 | < shadowclasper> | Having a similar discussion with Rex in skype, but just putting out some game design advice when trying to get a system you came up with reviewed in the thread. |
| 18:28 | < shadowclasper> | If you're sounding people for their opinions, then you have to actually sit back and let them debate a little before weighting in yourself unless you're asked for your reasoning directly |
| 18:28 | < shadowclasper> | Otherwise it tends to undermine your own point. |
| 18:29 | < Soren> | I canāt tell if youāre talking to me, about me, or how much i care. |
| 18:29 | < Soren> | More coffee. |
| 18:29 | < shadowclasper> | nah, general. It was rex's post specifically |
| 18:29 | < Soren> | Link? |
| 18:29 | < Soren> | I just woke up an hour ago and Iām walkiing in blind. |
| 18:29 | < shadowclasper> | Nvm, he deleted it. |
| 18:30 | < shadowclasper> | but if you go down near the bottom of the current thread |
| 18:30 | < shadowclasper> | you might catch it |
| 18:30 | < shadowclasper> | We proposed systems on how non-Frame units would function. |
| 18:33 | < Rex> | I worded it poorly. |
| 18:34 | < Ced23Ric> | You need to stop this discussion right now, guys. |
| 18:34 | < Ced23Ric> | Post the stats. |
| 18:34 | < Ced23Ric> | Explain hitpoints. |
| 18:34 | < Ced23Ric> | The discussion is going nowhere and it is turning to the point where people make up their own systems, making them unreceptive to our system. |
| 18:34 | < Ced23Ric> | I need tgo now, presentation in about an hour. |
| 18:35 | < shadowclasper> | kk |
| 18:35 | < Ced23Ric> | But you really need to stop being vague and lead the conversation. Moderate it with subtlety. |
| 18:35 | < Soren> | Ah, you guys are from the 4chan thread. So nothing at all to do with me. |
| 18:35 | < Ced23Ric> | Hey Soren. |
| 18:35 | < Ced23Ric> | Nope, those a channers. |
| 18:36 | < Ced23Ric> | And yes, nothing to do with you. |
| 18:36 | < Ced23Ric> | Also, bye Soren. |
| 18:36 | < Soren> | Later! |
| 18:36 | < Ced23Ric> | PS: http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1401641253437.png |
| 18:36 | < Ced23Ric> | Imagine threads around the technics beam. |
| 18:36 | < Ced23Ric> | http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1401641316727.png |
| 18:36 | < Soren> | Nice. |
| 18:37 | < Ced23Ric> | shadowclasper & Rex: You will have to start to explain to people that tanks aren't Blue but Green. And that Infantry is Blue. |
| 18:37 | < Ced23Ric> | It'll blow their minds. |
| 18:37 | < Soren> | https://www.dropbox.com/s/4mhmdif60vla8e1/AV-7%20%27Haphley%27%20Gunship.jpg Iāve had a whack at a gunship design a while ago, but thatās really as far as Iāve gotten. |
| 18:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Holy fuck big. |
| 18:37 | < shadowclasper> | I think we're going to run into a problem of concept Ced |
| 18:37 | < Soren> | Yeah, big, but pretty. |
| 18:37 | < shadowclasper> | people PERCEIVE tanks as slow and tough. |
| 18:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Which is wrong. |
| 18:37 | < shadowclasper> | Yes |
| 18:37 | < Ced23Ric> | Pull up data. |
| 18:37 | < shadowclasper> | I can pull up all the data I want to Ced |
| 18:38 | < shadowclasper> | I'll put it out there |
| 18:38 | < Ced23Ric> | Then ignore them. Chatter happens. |
| 18:38 | < shadowclasper> | but I've worked in game design for a while now. A sad truth of game design is that perception sometimes trumps realism. |
| 18:38 | < Ced23Ric> | But, I gotta go now or I'll miss my train. |
| 18:38 | | Ced23Ric is now known as Away23Ric |
| 18:38 | < shadowclasper> | People don't THINK it's real. |
| 18:38 | < shadowclasper> | So they don't see it as realistic |
| 18:38 | < Away23Ric> | Soren, can you maybe help out a little? |
| 18:38 | < shadowclasper> | no matter how much data you throw at them. |
| 18:39 | < shadowclasper> | Look, I'll give you some real world examples when you get back. I'll put this up while you're away alright? |
| 18:39 | < Soren> | Iād say at that point the job becomes the designerās, to present a coherent design to change their minds. |
| 18:39 | < shadowclasper> | shit |
| 18:39 | < shadowclasper> | I lost the tanks... |
| 18:39 | < Soren> | I mean, dealing with clients, sometimes the best way to sell someone on an idea is to mock it up and show them, and then they get it once they have a chance to interact with it. |
| 18:40 | < Soren> | So what you might want to do is wprk up two sets of test rules and challenge people to play very quickly under both. |
| 18:41 | < shadowclasper> | got them all |
| 18:41 | < Soren> | If someone is still wedded to their stupid idea after that, you can just tell them āwell, you can develop that if you want, weāre off doing the other thing.ā |
| 18:46 | < shadowclasper> | I'm not going to say that Soren |
| 18:46 | < shadowclasper> | people on 4chan already distrust IRCs |
| 18:47 | < Soren> | ākay. |
| 18:47 | < shadowclasper> | we're still in our infancy here. |
| 18:47 | < shadowclasper> | The surest way to kill a project is to say those words |
| 18:47 | < Soren> | Mm, fair enough. |
| 18:47 | < shadowclasper> | It's what has killed 3 other projects I've been on in /tg/ |
| 18:47 | < Soren> | I mean, I stopped hanging out on 4chan around 2007, and I never hung out there, so. |
| 18:48 | < shadowclasper> | No I know, it's cool. |
| 18:48 | < shadowclasper> | But this is something that started as a collective project |
| 18:48 | < shadowclasper> | It's a give and take process |
| 18:48 | < Soren> | Yeah. |
| 18:48 | < shadowclasper> | and the project comes out the better for it ultimately |
| 18:48 | < Soren> | thatās why I hate working on collective projects. |
| 18:48 | < shadowclasper> | If the concensus is that tanks should be tougher than faster? That's fine. |
| 18:48 | < shadowclasper> | And frankly I don't mind if they do say that |
| 18:48 | < Soren> | So much monkey motion. |
| 18:48 | < shadowclasper> | because it'll mean that tanks have a very distinct purpose separate from flyers. |
| 18:49 | < Soren> | Mm. |
| 18:49 | < shadowclasper> | and that's not a bad thing |
| 18:49 | < shadowclasper> | it's good for game play. |
| 18:49 | < shadowclasper> | Gameplay must ALWAYS come before realism. |
| 18:49 | < Soren> | No, Iām onboard with you. |
| 18:49 | < shadowclasper> | Thank you :) |
| 18:50 | < shadowclasper> | I know it's tough to deal with >_<; |
| 18:50 | < Soren> | Hey, better you than me. |
| 18:50 | < shadowclasper> | But I've been through the collective game making process enough times now to know where it screws up, and so I try to coach people through rough spots like this. |
| 18:50 | < Soren> | I mean, Iām not on the clock, so Iām not too worried about it. Iām happy to sit back and talk about lego, which is after all recreational for me. |
| 18:51 | < shadowclasper> | Hell, it's like this in real game design too. Everybody on the team from the producers, to the marketers, to the artists, all have some input on the actual design :P |
| 18:51 | < Soren> | Oh, I know. |
| 18:51 | < shadowclasper> | it's just a larger team like this XD |
| 18:51 | | * mraichelson blinks, looks around, goes back to hiding in closet |
| 18:51 | < Soren> | <- designed the official frames for the core book and Intercept Orbit, and did a bunch of setting work. |
| 18:52 | < shadowclasper> | oh o-o |
| 18:52 | < shadowclasper> | oh |
| 18:52 | < Soren> | Yeah. |
| 18:52 | < Soren> | That Soren. |
| 18:52 | < shadowclasper> | well now I feel like a pompous ass. |
| 18:52 | < Soren> | Nah. |
| 18:52 | < Soren> | I figured you knew. |
| 18:52 | < Soren> | And I would rather people argue with me than bow down. |
| 18:52 | < shadowclasper> | <<<is REALLY bad at names. |
| 18:53 | < Soren> | Has Ced showed you through the Errata folder yet? |
| 18:53 | < shadowclasper> | Nope. |
| 18:53 | < Soren> | https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3jukainedpeaq4t/AABGaFp8_ltLhfBO3FNSO13Sa |
| 18:53 | < Soren> | Well, feast your eyestalks. |
| 18:53 | < shadowclasper> | Thanks :) |
| 18:54 | < shadowclasper> | I'll keep this open, probably going to crash soon. But I do have a question for you. |
| 18:54 | < shadowclasper> | Why are people so ticked off at the lore for this setting? I found it kind of interesting. |
| 18:54 | < Soren> | I think it makes people uncomfortable not to have defined good and evil in their fiction generally. |
| 18:54 | < shadowclasper> | Maybe. |
| 18:55 | < Soren> | I was talking to Ced about this on Skype the other day, and saying, essentially, that a lot of our fiction and thinking about conflict hasnāt moved past the second world war. |
| 18:55 | < Soren> | ā¦which was seventy years ago, people. |
| 18:55 | < Soren> | The youngest people who fought in that war are in their 80s. The youngest people who remember it are in their late 70s. |
| 18:56 | < Soren> | ITās not the way the world works any more. |
| 18:56 | < Soren> | But weāre not addressing the multipolar shades-of-gray world we live in, where we fight limited conflicts for unclear reasons and thereās no final victory or final defeat. |
| 18:56 | < Soren> | So thatās part of it. |
| 18:57 | < shadowclasper> | Ehn, I both agree and disagree there. There's evil in the world. Some of it can be fought militarily, but all encompassing THIS IS EVIL is never the case usually. Even the war against the Nazi's was pretty black and white until we discovered the death camps. |
| 18:57 | < shadowclasper> | pretty grey* |
| 18:57 | < Soren> | Well, Itās not that I donāt believe thereās evil in the world. |
| 18:57 | < Soren> | But itās pretty evenly distributed. |
| 18:58 | < shadowclasper> | pretty much. Sometimes it concetrates in one place, but that's pretty damn rare. |
| 18:58 | < shadowclasper> | Anyway. |
| 18:59 | < Soren> | I think, also, the idea of calling Naziism out of bounds as an aesthetic pisses a lot of people off, and the low-intensity setting rules out a lot of the big phallic compensatory toys wargamers like. |
| 18:59 | < shadowclasper> | yeah, I'm glad you guys took some of the supplementary stuff to /tg/. It's a good place for creative endevors if you can get past the initial wave of "fornicate thyself and burn in periditon lickspittle!"s |
| 18:59 | < Soren> | Well, Iām letting Ced handle that, he got the ball rolling and seems to enjoy it. |
| 19:00 | < shadowclasper> | He's doing a good job by all accounts :) |
| 19:00 | < Soren> | I like talking about the setting slash answering easy questions about it, and i love building robots and shit. |
| 19:00 | < shadowclasper> | Well I'm just trying to get my own stuff off the ground |
| 19:00 | < shadowclasper> | I only had one set of legos to work with XD |
| 19:00 | < shadowclasper> | and no budget to make more. |
| 19:00 | < shadowclasper> | buy more* |
| 19:00 | < Soren> | https://www.dropbox.com/sh/th5gnov7kpf8pzz/AABMig6JtCJYu37PFOdd20u_a Speaking of robots, I just remembered tht I have a bunch of stuff thatās not in the Errata folder. |
| 19:00 | < Soren> | https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bo30xxrn8lkzsib/AAD805iQNpHC2uyrkaB1uz9Ba |
| 19:01 | < shadowclasper> | so I have to dig out my old play sets from the shed out back. |
| 19:01 | < Soren> | https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jwh5t5bvbx0tm78/AABN-aXG3yTu7P8hoYaG6OMja Also, I am an incorrigible TA fan from way back. |
| 19:01 | < shadowclasper> | you must be excited for Planetary Annihilation then? XD |
| 19:02 | < Soren> | Backed at $50, got a Progenitor com and everything. |
| 19:02 | < shadowclasper> | nice |
| 19:03 | < shadowclasper> | anyway, some of the setting restrictions feel a little hard. Banning stuff as all inclusive movements sure, but neonazi's are a thing NOW as isolated gangs, I'd find it hard to believe that you don't get skin heads in mechs raiding 'slug-head' colonies :P |
| 19:03 | < Soren> | Well. |
| 19:03 | < shadowclasper> | Oh no, I get the reasoning |
| 19:03 | < shadowclasper> | you don't want to even open the door to it. |
| 19:03 | < shadowclasper> | but I can also get the other point of view |
| 19:03 | < Soren> | If you read my stuff on the forums, Iāve basically said that some Free Colonies movements are not much better than that. |
| 19:04 | < mraichelson> | my take wasnāt āit doesnāt happenā. it was āif thatās the game you want to play, well, fine. but you donāt get to publish it using the MFZ name.ā |
| 19:04 | < shadowclasper> | haven't been on the forums much ^^; I backed you guys on kickstarter then forgot about it until yesterday when I realized I never got my kickstarter stuff. |
| 19:04 | < Soren> | Ah. |
| 19:04 | < shadowclasper> | and yeah, I get that. |
| 19:05 | < Soren> | Joshua is a bit of a flake. If you want help getting that rectified, Iām happy to help. |
| 19:05 | < Soren> | Also, heās been slammed basically nonstop since then by one thing or another. |
| 19:05 | < shadowclasper> | I'll check out my kickstarter when I get up and see, I know I didn't get anything big, it was decals and the book I think. |
| 19:05 | < shadowclasper> | but I'll double check later. |
| 19:05 | < Soren> | ākay. |
| 19:06 | < shadowclasper> | and jesus I wish I had half your ability to design stuff like this. |
| 19:06 | < Soren> | But yeah, heās definitely not trying to fuck anyone over, it just got very messy on his end and heās doing his best to sort it out. |
| 19:06 | < Soren> | Heās just not a very organized guy. |
| 19:06 | < shadowclasper> | Btw, what do you think of some of the alien factions people have been coming up with? Oh I know. It's a messy business. |
| 19:06 | < Soren> | Why thank you. |
| 19:06 | < Soren> | Well, I donāt check the threads unless someone links me. |
| 19:07 | < shadowclasper> | and I moved a couple of times between heloing kickstart you guys and finding this again, so it might even have been sent and kicked back and forth a few times x-X |
| 19:07 | < Soren> | I know a while back someone designed some aliens on the Hangar that I couldnāt stop laughing at. |
| 19:07 | < shadowclasper> | let me see if I can find them... |
| 19:07 | < Soren> | They were just so Junior High Faux Badass. |
| 19:08 | < shadowclasper> | http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1401566724655.png |
| 19:08 | < Soren> | But I think thatās fine as long as it gives you a strong aesthetic vision that you can use to anchor your designs and youāre not using them to say anything creepy. |
| 19:08 | < shadowclasper> | http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1401618356840.jpg |
| 19:08 | < Soren> | Ah, yeah, I like the second bunch. |
| 19:08 | < Soren> | Feel like the first has been done to death, a bit. |
| 19:09 | < shadowclasper> | Harvesters apparently just swoop down on a place (first picture) and collect materials to build more harvesters, then leave. No idea on hiver story. |
| 19:09 | < Soren> | Hmm. |
| 19:09 | < shadowclasper> | he's been trying to make them more unique as time goes on, has been steadily improving them. |
| 19:09 | < Soren> | Well, I love the name āHiverā |
| 19:09 | < shadowclasper> | http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1401570141339.png |
| 19:10 | < shadowclasper> | pictures of harvesters. And the hivers are the picture you liked anyway XD |
| 19:10 | < Soren> | and insectile creepy-crawlies generally. But Iām usually pretty critical of the tropes that follow that concept. |
| 19:11 | < Soren> | Yeah, i really like the vertical orientation of those guys, but the black feelsā¦ timid? |
| 19:11 | < shadowclasper> | true. It'd be interesting if they went sterile white or even something kinda garish |
| 19:11 | < shadowclasper> | something that looked like it couldn't possibly appeal to something in the human eye spectrum |
| 19:11 | < Soren> | Iāve got some stuff with a similar color scheme int he piep, but Iām trying to work more dark green into it to lighten it and make it feel less like INKY BLACK CREEPY CRAWLY BADNESS |
| 19:12 | < Soren> | Also picked up a bunch of the trans-pink bits to go with something in dark blue later, which seems promising. |
| 19:12 | < Soren> | So I like those guys, but I think they need more color. |
| 19:13 | < Soren> | And the designs could probably be tightened up a bit. |
| 19:14 | < shadowclasper> | I've actually wanted to make something that was crystal tech based with lots of transparents and stuff |
| 19:14 | < Soren> | Parts like http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=43712 and http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=43713 would give you those tall, tapering squid-heads without the awkwardness of the overlapping wedges. |
| 19:14 | < shadowclasper> | but I just have no wear NEAR enough transparent pieces of the right kinds |
| 19:14 | < shadowclasper> | those things are RARE |
| 19:14 | < Soren> | mm. |
| 19:14 | < Soren> | You wouldnāt need a lot. |
| 19:15 | < Soren> | http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=52 |
| 19:15 | < Soren> | http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=10178 |
| 19:15 | < Soren> | http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=11127 |
| 19:15 | < shadowclasper> | nah, I'm talking 'made from crystals' |
| 19:16 | < Soren> | Ah. |
| 19:16 | < shadowclasper> | so I need transparent blocks. |
| 19:16 | < Soren> | 1x2s? |
| 19:16 | < shadowclasper> | if it was just 'crystal powered technology' I'd do that and make little figures who looked like they were wearing togas to be tongue in cheek about it XD |
| 19:16 | < Soren> | Those show up in Pick-a-Brick pretty often. |
| 19:16 | < shadowclasper> | I'll check that out then. |
| 19:16 | < shadowclasper> | and more than that. cylinders, grabby bits, hinges. |
| 19:17 | < Soren> | I know both 1x1 plates and 1x1 slopes did recently at my local Lego store. |
| 19:17 | < shadowclasper> | things they simply don't make transparents of. |
| 19:17 | < shadowclasper> | and sadly, Louisiana doesn't have a dedicated lego shop to my knowledge |
| 19:17 | < shadowclasper> | at least not on my side of the state. |
| 19:17 | < Soren> | Ah, well, you can usually hook up with someone whoāll grab stuff for you. |
| 19:17 | < shadowclasper> | I'll see what I can do then :) |
| 19:18 | < shadowclasper> | first I'm going to see what 15 years of collecting legos as a kid will do for me :P |
| 19:18 | < Soren> | But Bricklink sounds like your best bet. |
| 19:19 | < shadowclasper> | By the way, if you guys are looking to produce a sound track for this game? know something like 3 freelance sound designers I can point you at. All talents folks. |
| 19:19 | < Soren> | It really depends on the color. Were you just thinking clear and colorless? |
| 19:19 | < shadowclasper> | I was thining a vareity of colors |
| 19:19 | < Soren> | Itās not really on my radar, but thanks. |
| 19:19 | < shadowclasper> | but each one solid colored. |
| 19:19 | < Soren> | Hmm. Okay. |
| 19:20 | < Soren> | Iām just thinking about the possible range here. I might tray something like dark blue shading to light blue shading to clear. |
| 19:20 | < Soren> | try* |
| 19:20 | < Soren> | That seems manageable. |
| 19:20 | < shadowclasper> | See, designed this race called the 'karen'din-ai' way back when, crystaline snake people about 10 feet tall at the shortest, so their BIG dudes, the "Blood Singers" would fit perfectly for the smallest frame sizes. That's a lot of small parts. |
| 19:20 | < shadowclasper> | I'll look into it :) Thank you. |
| 19:20 | < Soren> | Hmm. |
| 19:21 | < Soren> | Yeah, Iād say look around Bricklink and start coming up with a rough idea of what you want/what parts are available. |
| 19:21 | < shadowclasper> | I'll do that. |
| 19:22 | < shadowclasper> | Oh, another question. Where'd the name 'chub' come from? |
| 19:22 | < Soren> | Off the top of my head, there donāt seem to be a ton of possible transitions you could so within the Lego palette of transparent parts. |
| 19:22 | < shadowclasper> | yeah sadly :S |
| 19:22 | < shadowclasper> | unless I want to go for rainbow monsters. |
| 19:22 | < Soren> | The enemy mecha in VOTOMs are called Fatties, and since I was riffing on those, I went with something similar. |
| 19:23 | < shadowclasper> | aaah XD |
| 19:24 | < Soren> | Oh, hey. |
| 19:25 | < Soren> | IIII know a piece you should snag. |
| 19:26 | < Soren> | http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=98566 |
| 19:26 | < Soren> | Bit pricey, but would be a good command antenna. |
| 19:26 | < shadowclasper> | damn, you're right there. |
| 19:26 | < shadowclasper> | or plating |
| 19:26 | < Soren> | Well, look at the per-piece prices before you get visions of hexagonal tiling dancing in your head. |
| 19:29 | < shadowclasper> | definitely. I'm working on a serious budget, at the end of the day, it might simply be better to nab whole sets off of starwars and work with what I got :P |
| 19:29 | < shadowclasper> | since my end goal at the end of the day is to have not only a team of Frames and possibly support craft, but their own transport ship. |
| 19:30 | < shadowclasper> | because why settle for anything except excelence |
| 19:31 | < Soren> | You wonāt hear any argument from me on that point. |
| 19:31 | < Soren> | But yeah, it might be better to start off with the basics and save up weird design experiments in LDD. |
| 19:33 | < shadowclasper> | Which is why I'm trying to make the stuff I can. |
| 19:33 | < shadowclasper> | From what I have available. |
| 19:35 | < Soren> | Mm. |
| 19:36 | < Soren> | Definitely sort whatever Lego you have. That makes it a lot easier to figure out what youāve got and what you need. |
| 19:38 | < shadowclasper> | after all, if aquanauts, starwars, harry potter, and god knows what else doesn't supply me with the needed pieces for 5-15 frames and the supplies to make a deployment ship, then something is probably wrong with the universe :P |
| 19:40 | < Soren> | Heh |
| 19:40 | < Soren> | yeah, although my basic designs do really eat small connective bits and pieces. |
| 19:40 | < Soren> | Theyāre all cheap parts, but you do need a lot of them. |
| 19:43 | < mraichelson> | āit only takes 3 travises to build a chubā * 5 units per company * 3 players... |
| 19:43 | < mraichelson> | :) |
| 19:43 | < Soren> | Well, now that those come in PaB, pfff. |
| 19:44 | < Soren> | Also, the old SW sets were a pretty good source for them as I recall. |
| 19:44 | < mraichelson> | true. |
| 19:44 | < mraichelson> | (well, on the PaB tip anyway. never had any older SW sets) |
| 19:45 | < Soren> | I had a fair number of them, especially the little polybag ones, and they were pretty good parts packs. |
| 19:46 | < Soren> | But something in bulkis still a better option in nearly all cases. |
| 19:46 | < Soren> | Now, the minifigs from those sets, if theyāre in good condition, could fetch some cash. |
| 19:46 | < Soren> | Because collectors are insane. |
| 19:47 | < Soren> | http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=ichiban&itemID=57528293 Ah, there you go, cheapest US price for them in serious bulk. |
| 19:47 | < Soren> | Youād have to buy all 804ā¦ |
| 19:48 | < mraichelson> | lol, i like that you only can have that price if you buy them ALL |
| 19:48 | < Soren> | http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=LittleFigs&itemID=33997396 This guyās on the next page, nm. |
| 19:48 | | * mraichelson considers it |
| 19:50 | < Soren> | Oh, trans-light-blue 1x2 tiles have been in PaB for a while. You might want to check prices on those. |
| 19:50 | < Soren> | Since youāve been tearing shit up in the Ijad department with that color. |
| 19:50 | < Soren> | http://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?itemID=17084&colorID=15 Yeah, lots of cheap options. |
| 19:51 | < shadowclasper> | what's a travis piece? |
| 19:51 | < mraichelson> | back in the fall when i went back east and was in range of 3 PaBās one of them had them, i got a bunch but havenāt used many. |
| 19:51 | < mraichelson> | a few on ships but thatās about it. |
| 19:51 | < Soren> | Ah, then youāre good. |
| 19:51 | < Soren> | I got a shitload but Iām not entirely sure what to do with them. |
| 19:51 | < shadowclasper> | the ones with 3 connectors along the sides? the 1x1s I mean? |
| 19:51 | < Soren> | Build a waterfall? |
| 19:52 | < mraichelson> | looks like i grabed 86. iāve probably used 8. |
| 19:53 | < mraichelson> | and, uh, that travis brick link for ichiban. |
| 19:53 | < mraichelson> | <_< |
| 19:53 | < mraichelson> | >_> |
| 19:53 | < mraichelson> | nobody needs to bother clicking that anymore. |
| 19:53 | < Soren> | Hah, |
| 19:53 | < Soren> | I mean, I have a sandwich bag full to bursting, so. |
| 19:53 | < Soren> | I canāt judge. |
| 19:54 | < mraichelson> | yeah, i already have 95 chubs worth in the mail to me. :) |
| 19:54 | < mraichelson> | +100 for weapons |
| 19:55 | < mraichelson> | actually, i meant to ask you a question, Soren. re: scramblers. why the 2x2round brick that comes to 1 stud on the top rather than just a 2x2 round brick? |
| 19:56 | < Soren> | It sits better under the dish, essentially. |
| 19:56 | | * mraichelson realizes how incredibly snarky that sounded and didnāt mean it that way |
| 19:56 | < shadowclasper> | http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1401648550160.png somebody linked a neat little visual guide to building chubs |
| 19:56 | < Soren> | I mean, you can tweak it if you want, itās not a huge deal. |
| 19:57 | < mraichelson> | ceratinly easier to explain the connection for people who may not be familiar with ānow stick this between the studsā |
| 19:57 | < Soren> | Well, Iām not certain, but it might also be more secure. |
| 19:57 | < Rex> | Was that someone me? |
| 19:57 | < shadowclasper> | yes |
| 19:57 | < mraichelson> | nah, iāve been trying to stick by whatās in the instructions where i could (if for no other reason than to be lazy and not have to make new instructions) |
| 19:57 | < shadowclasper> | yes it was as it turns out |
| 19:58 | < mraichelson> | dat superchub skeleton. :F |
| 19:58 | < shadowclasper> | there has to be a way to cut down on those travis blocks... |
| 19:58 | < shadowclasper> | I find that you can make really nice legs using wheel connectors |
| 19:58 | < shadowclasper> | the ones with 2 wheel pins |
| 19:59 | < mraichelson> | it only uses that many because of all the articulation the superchubs add. |
| 20:00 | < mraichelson> | in the ones I have (8-ish, but 5 with different arms) i used the 1x1 technic bricks in the thighs. so the plates with clips socket into them the opposite direction. |
| 20:00 | < Soren> | Yeah, thatās totally valid. |
| 20:00 | < mraichelson> | not sure how much of a savings that is in the long run. |
| 20:00 | < shadowclasper> | I'll be lucky to have enough of those to make even a basic chub |
| 20:00 | < shadowclasper> | I'm going to have to get inventive. |
| 20:00 | < Soren> | I think Iāve mentioned beofre that the designs in the book are a bit of a compromise because we wanted stuff that also looked nice in promo images. |
| 20:01 | < Soren> | before* |
| 20:01 | < shadowclasper> | you have |
| 20:01 | < shadowclasper> | in the pdf document even. |
| 20:01 | < Soren> | the Stinger, in the Errata folder, is one of the cheapest designs Iāve managed to build. |
| 20:01 | < Soren> | Total accident out of a single $30 bricklink order and one set while we were in Malaysia. |
| 20:03 | < shadowclasper> | oh don't worry. I'll figure stuff out over time :) I plan to make some really nice pieces. I'm probably going to avoid making chubs because they seem to use a lot of more modern pieces it seems, like the chest plates and stuff, but we'll see :P I'll get more limbs out of ripping the legs and hands off my lego people probably than anything else. |
| 20:04 | < Soren> | Hey, whatever works. |
| 20:05 | < shadowclasper> | pretty much. I'm thinking I'll probably end up going with the rough and tumble 'we scavenged whatever we could and then left our colony behind' look. |
| 20:05 | < shadowclasper> | if only because it'll justify the hodge podge of colors I'll have XD |
| 20:16 | < Soren> | YOu can also start by building a demo setup of two units to a team in each of three colors, and expand them all slowly until you have enough stuff for a full three-way game. |
| 20:17 | < Soren> | Just on the basis of feedback we keep getting, it seems like getting people to the point where they can start playing is the biggest barrier. |
| 20:18 | < shadowclasper> | Yeah. I want to get enough to get gameplay with my LGS. Introduce people to it. |
| 20:19 | < mraichelson> | it takes a bit of effort to get there, especially if your parents gave all your old lego to younger siblings on you. :P |
| 20:19 | < shadowclasper> | yeah, I lucked out |
| 20:19 | < shadowclasper> | mine got stored away |
| 20:19 | < shadowclasper> | I was afraid they'd been given away to co-worker's children or my cousins. |
| 20:22 | < Rex> | Getting to the point where I can start playing has definitely been a problem. |
| 20:22 | | * mraichelson takes notes furiously |
| 20:24 | < Rex> | Well, I did play a mock game with proxies to get a basic feel of it. |
| 20:24 | < mraichelson> | so, for purely self-serving reasons i need to ask: are either of you on the forum or part of the MFZ groups on facebook/g+/reddit/etc? |
| 20:24 | < shadowclasper> | nope >> |
| 20:25 | | * mraichelson nods |
| 20:26 | < Rex> | I requested to join the Facebook group. |
| 20:26 | < mraichelson> | i thought it was an open group. |
| 20:26 | < Rex> | I haven't checked to see if I got in yet. |
| 20:27 | < mraichelson> | Rex: this one? https://www.facebook.com/groups/252503984838645/ |
| 20:27 | < Rex> | I honestly don't know. All I can tell you is I found it and I clicked a button. |
| 20:27 | < mraichelson> | lol, well, that one is an open group, no applying to get in. |
| 20:28 | < mraichelson> | (and where most of the names i see repeatedly across hangar/flickr/etc seem to show up) |
| 20:29 | < Rex> | I could have swore I joined it. |
| 20:30 | < shadowclasper> | you know what would be fun to do when we get all the other rules sorted out? |
| 20:30 | < mraichelson> | bury a dead hooker in the desert? |
| 20:30 | < shadowclasper> | rules for smaller space craft in RA's scope |
| 20:30 | < mraichelson> | oh, or that. |
| 20:31 | < shadowclasper> | either boarding actions or having them hovering above the field of battle |
| 20:31 | < shadowclasper> | and yeah |
| 20:31 | | * mraichelson casually throws a blanket over shuttles |
| 20:31 | < shadowclasper> | some of us try to avoid killing hookers. |
| 20:34 | < Rex> | My GTA days have passed a decade ago, so you won't get any arguments out of me. |
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| 21:54 | < mraichelson> | okay, connection is being goofy while trying to grill at the same time. bbl. |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jun 02 00:00:53 2014 |