| --- Log opened Sun Apr 02 00:00:22 2023 |
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| 03:34 | <&McMartin> | https://bumbershootsoft.wordpress.com/2023/04/02/source-release-flight-of-the-hummingbird-and-the-atrocitron/ |
| 03:47 | <@celticminstrel> | So I assume that statement includes AppleScript. |
| 03:51 | <@celticminstrel> | โฆwait, you made an Inform7 work before making an Inform6 work? |
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| 05:10 | <&McMartin> | In the strictest sense, yes: the first full-length I7 piece I published, if not *made* (since I was one of the very earliest adopters and a very active, shall we say, "gamma tester"), predates two works I made entirely in I6. Atrocitron is one of those two; the other was a two-hour game jam game. |
| 05:11 | <&McMartin> | As the article should make clear, I6 and I7 are nearly entirely different languages, and it ended up being easier to ensure various properties I desired for Atrocitron at the I6 level. |
| 05:11 | <&McMartin> | But also: the first Inform works I *ever* wrote do predate the release of I7, so while I need to keep the Designer's Manual open at all times in working on it, I am no stranger to I6. |
| 05:12 | <@celticminstrel> | Are there even any programming languages that try to sound like natural language besides Inform7 and AppleScript? |
| 05:12 | <@celticminstrel> | At least, non-esoteric ones. |
| 05:13 | <&McMartin> | I feel like there were a lot of Applescript-like languages out there that got no traction because they were awful |
| 05:14 | <&McMartin> | Leaving aside cases of "try to sound like natural language" that include, say, BASIC itself. Or COBOL, I suppose. |
| 05:14 | <&McMartin> | The stereotype is that if you try to do this you *get* COBOL; no more powerful than Pascal, but much flabbier and harder to make sense of. |
| 05:15 | <&McMartin> | In a particularly twisted way that I7 intentionally echoes: Perl |
| 05:16 | <@celticminstrel> | ? |
| 05:17 | <&McMartin> | Perl's *grammar* is very flexible so when you "translate" Perl code that isn't line noise into something you can speak, you often end up with "natural" sentence structures |
| 05:18 | <&McMartin> | "... or die" being one of the classic patterns |
| 05:18 | <@celticminstrel> | I like that Lua also supports that pattern. |
| 05:18 | <&McMartin> | C and Lisp support it too! It's a natural consequence of short-circuited boolean evaluation. |
| 05:19 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't think C supports itโฆ? |
| 05:20 | <&McMartin> | If you do "f(blah) || die(...)" you will only run die() if f() returns 0. |
| 05:20 | <@celticminstrel> | I mean, I guess maybe you can do it as long as you have a die() function that returns something other than void. |
| 05:20 | <@celticminstrel> | But I don't think any of the usual built-in functions you'd use for that do so. |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | exit() |
| 05:21 | <@celticminstrel> | IIRC C++ makes throw an expression so maybe that works. |
| 05:21 | <@celticminstrel> | exit returns something? |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | It does not, and that is why it should be accepted in those contexts. |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | "noreturn exit()" |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | noreturn void exit() rather |
| 05:22 | <@celticminstrel> | Apparently it's declared as void exit() |
| 05:22 | <@celticminstrel> | So I thought that would be a compile error because you can't or a void. |
| 05:22 | <@celticminstrel> | And noreturn annotation (in C at least) is a compiler extension. |
| 05:22 | <&McMartin> | Yes, though it is also a fairly common one |
| 05:22 | <@celticminstrel> | I guess it doesn't matter that much. |
| 05:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Since you mentioned Lisp, I'm now trying to imagine that pattern in UCB Logo and I just can't picture it. |
| 05:23 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. It does turn out that that one failed. |
| 05:23 | <&McMartin> | I dunno about Logo |
| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | CLisp it's (and (thing) (failure-function))... but you'd generally spell `and` `unless` there. |
| 05:24 | <&McMartin> | Er, `or`, not `and` in both cases |
| 05:25 | <&McMartin> | The more common C idiom is "if (foo && foo->field) ..." |
| 05:26 | <@celticminstrel> | I guess that would basically work verbatim in Logo, other than "unless" not being a built-in synonym. |
| 05:27 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, the manual even fives an actual example of it. |
| 05:27 | <@celticminstrel> | ^gives |
| 05:28 | <@celticminstrel> | I guess the syntax is slightly different but not much. |
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| 13:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | Exit is void, but the way I usually express that is something like: |
| 13:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | noreturn int die(const char* msg) { /* write msg to stderr and then exit(EXIT_FAILURE) */ } |
| 13:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | foo() || die("couldn't foo!"); |
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| 16:21 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah. Okay, I guess it does work in C, just requires a little extra work on the programmer's part. |
| 18:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's very rare I want to exit(1) without some kind of error message anyways, so |
| 18:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | My error handling in bash looks basically identical |
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| 20:09 | | maple [tcp@Nightstar-3v2.27b.60.38.IP] has joined #code |
| 20:09 | < maple> | THIS CHANNEL SUCKS DONKEY BALLS! GET ON ๐ธ๐๐ฒ๐ณ.๐ฒ๐ท๐ฐ๐ #๐๐ฒ๐ฟ๐ณ๐ธ๐๐ด๐ฒ๐ FOR THAT REAL SHIT |
| 20:09 | < maple> | โโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโ |
| 20:09 | < maple> | โโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโ |
| 20:09 | < maple> | PORT 6697 - #TCPDIRECT CELEBRATING ๐ ๐ฏ๐ฑ๐จ๐ซ ๐ฅ๐ซ๐ฎ๐ฎ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ฃ๐ ๐ธ 2 FUCK THE FBI NSA CIA ATF |
| 20:09 | < maple> | [R] TheWatcher abudhabi__ Syloq PinkFreud gnolam McMartin ToxicFrog mac FLHerne Alek Tamber JustBob gizmore|2 ErikMesoy Degi Pinkhair celticminstrel jerith himi Mahal Emmy jeroud Reiver Kindamoody Kizor_ |
| 20:09 | | maple [tcp@Nightstar-3v2.27b.60.38.IP] has left #code ["THIS CHANNEL IS BLOWJOBS HOP ON IRCD.CHAT:6697 #TCPDIRECT"] |
| 20:28 | < Emmy> | ...Wow, it has been a long time since i've seen one of those |
| 20:29 | < Emmy> | i'm somewhat amazed it didn't get autobanned |
| 20:29 | | * Emmy blames JustBob |
| 21:04 | < Degi> | What was that? 1st april joke? A troll? Just some advertisement? |
| 21:07 | <@mac> | Degi: Either really bad spam advertising, or a troll false-flagging someone they don't like. |
| 21:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | They have been getting autobanned, but usually they manage a few spam messages before the autoban hits them |
| 22:56 | < Alek> | 5 messages at once is what I recall the flood limit being, and there we go, that was 5 messages. |
| 22:58 | <@gnolam> | Once again I would like to point out that it is impossible to read "this channel is blowjobs" in anything other than Skwiskgaar Skwigelf's or NoHo Hank's voices. |
| 23:13 | < Emmy> | https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/metalocalypse/images/0/0c/Newsound.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20230223140446 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Apr 03 00:00:23 2023 |