| --- Log opened Sat Jan 07 00:00:56 2023 |
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| 18:57 | <@celticminstrel> | I need a workaround for a compiler that supports most of C++11, but not inheriting constructors… I tried a variadic template constructor but that didn’t seem to work… is my only option a macro per relevant base class that explicitly defines all the constructors? |
| 19:24 | <&McMartin> | What do you mean by "not inheriting constructors"? |
| 19:26 | <&McMartin> | I'm reading that as something that C++ had even pre-standardization |
| 19:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Inheriting with a using statement |
| 19:36 | <&McMartin> | Ah. |
| 19:36 | <&McMartin> | ... wait, is this multiple inheritance, or can you just got Derived(int a) : Base(a) {} |
| 19:37 | <@celticminstrel> | It’s not multiple. |
| 19:38 | <@celticminstrel> | So yes, that works. I just didn’t want to have to write 100 or whatever of that with the same arguments each time. |
| 20:02 | | macdjord is now known as Torrac |
| 20:38 | | Vornicus is now known as Gregor |
| 20:38 | <@celticminstrel> | I wonder if there’s an actual list somewhere of what C++11 features are supported on clang under Xcode 4. Finding the equivalent for Visual Studio 2013 shouldn’t be too hard, but Xcode might be a litte tricky… |
| 20:47 | | Kizor is now known as Burbesk |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> | Do you know what version of clang it is? |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> | Because https://clang.llvm.org/cxx_status.html is Clang's Master List |
| 20:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, theoretically I can probably find out, but the thing is that Xcode builds of clang are custom and set the version equal to the Xcode version. So it’s a little hard to figure out what version of clang it is. |
| 20:52 | <@celticminstrel> | clang --version gives Apple LLVM version 4.2 (clang-425.0.28) (based on LLVM 3.2svn) |
| 20:52 | <@celticminstrel> | So I guess clang 3.2 is a good guess? |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | That would match. Inheriting Constructors is listed as being added in 3.3 |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | Dare I ask why you are using Xcode 4 |
| 20:53 | <@celticminstrel> | It also lists attribute syntax as 3.3 but that seems to work. |
| 20:54 | <@celticminstrel> | I’m actually using Xcode 12 mostly but I want to be able to build on the old computer too, which has Xcode 4. Plus, I feel that since this game worked on Classic Mac that it should ideally work on computers as old as I can possibly manage to support. |
| 20:56 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that's the part where I raised an eyebrow, because Xcode 4 is old enough to Suck A Lot but too new to support PowerPC |
| 20:56 | <~Gregor> | My experience with mac backcompat has always been "you'd better hope it was updated in the 2 year window when that was the right way to do it" |
| 20:56 | <&McMartin> | I have an article on this, it turns out, though it focuses less on C++ stuff and more on Apple-specific tech |
| 20:57 | <@celticminstrel> | ? |
| 20:57 | <@celticminstrel> | Pretty sure I was able to build PPC when I was using Xcode 4, tho admittedly I never actually ran the resulting program on a PPC machine… |
| 20:58 | | * celticminstrel has no idea what Vorn is referring to. |
| 20:58 | <&McMartin> | https://bumbershootsoft.wordpress.com/2018/11/23/unfilitered-cocoa-coding-for-compatibility/ was my article |
| 20:59 | <@celticminstrel> | (I would like to support Xcode 3 as well, and even have a computer with it installed, but I’m not really ready to deal with that right now.) |
| 20:59 | <~Gregor> | I'm being a little flippant but |
| 20:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Referencing how Apple constantly breaks compatibilty? |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> | "Xcode 4.0 drops support for many older systems, including all PowerPC development and software development kits (SDKs) for Mac OS X 10.4 and 10.5, and all iOS SDKs older than 4.3. The deployment target can still be set to produce binaries for those older platforms, but for Mac OS platforms, one is then limited to creating x86 and x86-64 binaries." |
| 21:00 | | * McMartin shrug |
| 21:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Ohh, I bet the reason it worked was because I copied the 10.4 SDK package from my computer with Xcode 3… |
| 21:00 | <@celticminstrel> | I think it’s set to target 10.7 now tho… |
| 21:01 | <@celticminstrel> | But that might explain why it seemed to work at some point in the past, if it was using the 10.4 SDK package even tho it was Xcode 4. |
| 21:01 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, my overall conclusion for my backcompat is basically "Do not bother targeting anything before 10.7, and never *use a compiler* older than 10.8" |
| 21:01 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, 10.7 is basically fine for a target. It’d be nice to go back as far as 10.4 but I don’t really think it’s important. |
| 21:02 | <@celticminstrel> | The oldest Xcode 12 is allowing me to target tho is 10.9 which is slightly annoying… |
| 21:02 | <&McMartin> | The version of Xcode that came with 10.8 made the final modifications to the Objective-C language that made it actually usable. |
| 21:02 | <&McMartin> | It is worth noting I wrote this article four years ago~ |
| 21:02 | <@celticminstrel> | I don’t know if I have a way to get a compiler that’s older than Xcode 12, other than the two (4 and 3) that I already have. |
| 21:04 | <&McMartin> | developer.apple.com has an archive section but how far back it goes varies depending on how much of an ass Apple is feeling like today |
| 21:04 | <&McMartin> | On days when they *aren't* feeling like an ass you could legit grab copies of MPW |
| 21:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 21:05 | <@celticminstrel> | I remember at one point there was a public download of things like ResEdit. |
| 21:05 | <@celticminstrel> | No idea if that sitll exists. |
| 21:05 | <&McMartin> | All of system 7.5.5, IIRC |
| 21:05 | <@celticminstrel> | I don’t suppose that included the ROM? |
| 21:06 | <&McMartin> | It did not, though that's one of those things that seems to be pretty regularly casually pirated in public, usually as part of efforts by publishers to say "hey, we're giving away our old mac games, he's a preconfigured zip file with a thing to make stuff just work" and then you dig in there and :whistles innocently: |
| 21:07 | <&McMartin> | (or, you know, have a Mac and run a ROM extractor, which is not difficult if when it's _your_ old stuff) |
| 21:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, unfortunately I no longer have my PowerMac. |
| 21:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Nor my even older Mac. |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | Looking at my notes I appear to think that there's a hard compatibility limit at 10.4 (which forbids 64-bit) and 10.14 (which mandates it) and that point I judged that going fat binary is just kind of dumb |
| 21:14 | <@celticminstrel> | That can still be worked around by providing too separate binaries… tho that’s a load of extra work, obviously. |
| 21:14 | <@celticminstrel> | ^two |
| 21:15 | <@celticminstrel> | So probably not really worth it on a distribution level. |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | FWIW I'm using clang on the commandline with Xcode 14 and it's letting me set -mmacosx-version-min=10.7 still |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | ..heh |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | " the function CMSampleBufferGetAudioBufferListWithRetainedBlockBuffer, a function name so long that I cannot render it on their API browser in a 1920×1080 window without it having to insert a mid-word line break. |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | Things you can’t complain about on Twitter because you run out of characters to get to the complaint part." |
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| 22:12 | <@celticminstrel> | Is that a parameter to xcodebuild? |
| 22:13 | <@celticminstrel> | Or to clang? |
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| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | To clang. |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | "Unfiltered Cocoa" was a project where I was building a complete, full-fat macOS application without ever touching any of Xcode's interface building or application-organizing tools, and constructing it with nothing but Xcode's CLI tools and a makefile. |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | And xcodebuild was deemed to be cheating ;) |
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| 22:33 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
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| 22:43 | <@TheWatcher> | "CMSampleBufferGetAudioBufferListWithRetainedBlockBuffer" is at least a function, so there's not likely to be a ....FactorySingletonImpl class |
| 22:51 | <@celticminstrel> | So that means I could put it in “Additional C++ Arguments” or whatever it’s called in Xcode, and also add it to CXXFLAGS in scons when building on Mac. |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jan 08 00:00:58 2023 |