| --- Log opened Sun Jul 17 00:00:09 2022 |
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| 03:40 | <&McMartin> | Rules to live by: Naming your library some variation of "the thing that's super easy to use" is tempting fate and you shouldn't do it |
| 04:08 | <&Reiver> | snrk |
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| 04:56 | <&McMartin> | (This insight brought to you by the twin facts that all GUI programming is full of spiders and that the Amiga's in-ROM GUI library is named "Intuition") |
| 06:31 | <~Vorntastic> | Yikes |
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| 08:58 | <&McMartin> | oh no, it's time for Late Night Bumbershoot: https://bumbershootsoft.wordpress.com/2022/07/17/amiga-500-our-first-real-gui-program/ |
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| 18:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | > Each task in Exec has 32 signals associated with, and unique to, it. The primary method of interprocess signalling involves reserving one of a task’s signals and firing it when necessary; for its part, the task may block waiting on any combination of its signals in a manner not entirely unlike Unix’s select(2). Exec also optionally wraps signals into message ports which attach an |
| 18:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | (Exec-managed) linked list of data structures (called messages) to a task’s signal. These message structures actually reside in the memory spaces of the sending task, and they are not copied. The Motorola CPUs won’t be getting anything resembling memory protection for two more processor revisions, and that pays off here by letting us trade safety for blazing-fast IPC speed. |
| 18:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | I wonder if that's the original inspiration for the Thoth IPC API that CacheOS/SGOS adopted, because this description is very familiar |
| 18:23 | <~Vornicus> | i was left behind / our paths converge / our fates are shared / chance tears and bends |
| 18:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | [circumstances are cyclical] |
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| 22:06 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: Thoth predates AmigaOS, so causality is likely backwards there. |
| 22:07 | <&McMartin> | That *also* said, microkernels do end up all looking very similar at the end of the day; the core design ends up being "the only thing running in 'ring 0' is some kind of blazing fast IPC mechanism that tries to get its cost down to 'procedure call' levels" |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | It doesn't look like there was a direct link to Thoth *in particular* there, so that's going to just be 'yeah, microkernels, back to like 1967 or so' |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | "In 1972, the B programming language, a derivative of BCPL, was brought to Waterloo by Stephen C. Johnson while on sabbatical from Bell Labs.[4] A new language derived from B, named Eh, was developed at Waterloo." |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | -_- |
| 22:09 | <&McMartin> | Though for added synchronicity: AmigaDOS -- but *just* the DOS part, that is extending Tasks into Processes managing filesystems on top of the trackdisk device: were written in BCPL and use a different ABI than everything else. |
| 22:09 | <&McMartin> | s/:/ --/ |
| 22:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | I mean, not just the concept, but the specific 32-channel signals mechanism, the linked lists of messages owned by the sender, the need to await a reply before doing anything with that memory -- change the API names and that could be part of the CacheOS kernel programmer's manual ca. 2003 |
| 22:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | I did not know that Thoth predated AmigaOS, though |
| 22:18 | <&McMartin> | It turns out there is some relation to my own academic career there, but it is unflattering so maybe I shouldn't share~ |
| 22:18 | <@celticminstrel> | XD |
| 22:19 | <@celticminstrel> | Eh |
| 22:19 | <&McMartin> | A lot of those decisions seem dictated by architecture, though |
| 22:19 | <&McMartin> | Prepend-only linked lists are The Dynamic Data Type going back to LISP because you can implement them "for free" in assembly language |
| 22:20 | <&McMartin> | 32 signals means your select bitmask fits exactly in one register |
| 22:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | True |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jul 18 00:00:11 2022 |