| --- Log opened Wed Dec 22 00:00:41 2021 |
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| 02:32 | < catalyst> | <&McMartin> I'm *pretty* sure Rust's trait implementations work like C++ templates and ML functors in that they essentially are compiled once for each instantiation <-- they are, the process is the same as C++ and is known as monomorphization |
| 02:32 | < catalyst> | https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/backend/monomorph.html |
| 02:33 | < catalyst> | also, simple generic associated types that allow you to pass things like integers as type parameters have been added to the language and stabilised recently |
| 02:34 | < catalyst> | but there's a limited set of things you can do with them |
| 02:34 | < catalyst> | they do finally let you write traits that can handle different sizes of array though |
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| 11:19 | <@sshine> | catalyst, yes, it is because of the monomorphisation that I want to do it this way. unlike template programming, the way that trait implementations are resolved is a constraint resolution in the type checker, rather than Turing-complete template evaluation. *as far as I know* |
| 11:19 | < catalyst> | but still, why blockchain? |
| 11:20 | <@sshine> | it is pretty cool that Rust has a [u64; 8] type, i.e. an array of a statically known size. |
| 11:20 | <@sshine> | catalyst, why I decided to work with blockchain stuff? |
| 11:21 | < catalyst> | yeah |
| 11:22 | <@sshine> | catalyst, because I think it should be possible to perform anonymous, irreversible transactions that aren't regulated by government. |
| 11:23 | < catalyst> | heh, alright |
| 11:23 | <&Reiver> | Oh dear. |
| 11:24 | <&Reiver> | I'll leave that ball in McMartin and TF's court, I think~ |
| 11:25 | <@sshine> | picking up the ball is voluntary. |
| 11:29 | <@sshine> | ToxicFrog, to be honest, I haven't aligned fully on the environmental cost of proof-of-work. I am inclined to think that federal blockchains, i.e. ones that are not controlled by one governing body, but a union of bodies, like trade and workers' unions. but that's just my own syndicalist view, it's not very popular. but it would be compatible with proof-of-stake. |
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| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | > picking up the ball is voluntary. |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | To be clear, from my perspective the ball I'm deciding whether to pick up is "do we need an official 'blockchain/cryptocurrency wankery => you are fucking banned' policy like several of the other nets I'm on have already implemented" |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | > I haven't aligned fully on the environmental cost of proof-of-work |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Proof of work, by definition, is a competition to see who can waste energy the fastest. That's a side effect of some other mechanisms like Chia's PoST but it's the entire point of PoW. |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | > ones that are not controlled by one governing body |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | What distinguishes a blockchain from a merkle tree is the distributed consensus mechanism. A blockchain "controlled by one governing body" doesn't need distributed consensus, so it either |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | (a) isn't a blockchain, it's a git repo with "blockchain" on a sticky note stuck to the front of the server to secure funding from gullible investors, or |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | (b) is even more shockingly unfit for purpose than most of the things people use blockchains for and the fact that it wasn't mercy-killed before it even reached the design doc stage is a scathing indictment of everyone involved (more so than usual) |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | > but it would be compatible with proof-of-stake |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Proof of Stake doesn't share PoW's massive energy costs, at least, although it does have other issues. It may be the least bad blockchain consensus mechanism going at the moment but that is very much damning with faint praise. |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | > because I think it should be possible to perform anonymous, irreversible transactions that aren't regulated by government. |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | I genuinely cannot understand the mindset that looks at the cryptocurrency communities speedrunning the discovery of why we have financial regulations in the first place over the past few years and going "yes, this is awesome, we should have more of this" |
| 13:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Like I get that "digital cash" is a seductive idea but blockchain cryptocurrencies aren't it and never were |
| 13:18 | < Alek> | agreed. |
| 13:21 | <@ErikMesoy> | At the rate Bitcoin is going it might end up more like "digital diamonds": super high value per unit, authorities asking pointed questions if you try to use them in a transaction. |
| 13:29 | < Alek> | with a comparable moral cost to blood diamonds >_> |
| 14:01 | <@sshine> | ToxicFrog, I'm not sure what the wankery refers to. I could have not mentioned the b-word, and just talked about finite field arithmetic. |
| 14:02 | <@gnolam> | Alek: I think I'm going to steal "digital blood diamonds" to refer to bitcoin in the future. |
| 14:03 | <@sshine> | gnolam, probably NFTs are more like digital blood diamonds, and bitcoin is digital blood gold. :) |
| 14:07 | <@sshine> | either way, I prefer to behave according to a rule I saw in one local hackerspace: "don't behave in such a way that necessitates us to put up more rules" -- I'll simply refrain from talking about this, since it was never my intent to upset anyone. |
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| 14:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | Ugh. Uuuuuuggghhhhh. That's "Look what you made me do" combined with "Guess what I'm thinking". |
| 14:11 | <@sshine> | ErikMesoy, I'm not sure what that statement means. :) but I'm not going to address this further. |
| 14:12 | <@sshine> | McMartin, by the way, I almost figured out how to the trait thing from yesterday: https://gist.github.com/sshine/21c5e846cbadbed90097eeb6164c3478 -- I still get an "ambiguous associated type" error, and I suspect it's because the type checker can't reasonably derive that the 'PrimeFieldElementBig17::Elem' from the type parameter in 'PrimeFieldElementGeneric<PrimeFieldElementBig17>' that I'm impl'ing is the |
| 14:12 | <@sshine> | same type as the 'PrimeFieldElementBig17' concrete struct that I'm impl'ing for. |
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| 14:47 | < abudhabi__> | sshine: He's saying that this rule amounts to "apply crimestop to yourself". |
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| 14:48 | | * abudhabi__ approves of Alek's nickname as well. Great term! |
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| --- Log closed Thu Dec 23 00:00:43 2021 |