| --- Log opened Fri Nov 12 00:00:31 2021 |
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| 08:50 | | * gnolam sighs. |
| 08:50 | <@gnolam> | I get a bug report from a customer that the history view in $PROGRAM is claiming that operations were being done in the middle of the night at one of their sites. |
| 08:50 | <@gnolam> | I ask for the $PROGRAM logs from that machine. I get them. The logs agree with the history screenshots: according to the timestamps, there are people on the factory floor doing stuff in the wee hours of the morning. |
| 08:50 | <@gnolam> | I ask them to check the computer's clock and time zone settings. They're fine. |
| 08:51 | < Mahal> | Are there perhaps things being done overnight? |
| 08:51 | <@gnolam> | I start digging into the logging code and while there is a possibility for the time zone indicator to be off, the UTC timestamp is fetched directly from the OS and Should Always Be Correct. So something *really* weird must be going on. So I ask them if it's happened before, or after, if anything else weird has been going on, etc. |
| 08:52 | <@gnolam> | This morning, I got a new e-mail: "It has been going on all year, so I called them, and it turns out they have a night shift. Sorry." |
| 08:54 | <~Vorntastic> | That'd do it all right |
| 08:56 | < Mahal> | the simplest explanation often is the correct one |
| 11:20 | <@gnolam> | Props to the guy for CCing everyone involved in all companies admitting that he had had a case of the dumb at least. |
| 11:43 | <&Reiver> | gnolam: Hey, nothing wrong with people owning up to the mistake! |
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| 17:04 | < Pi> | Hi folks! |
| 17:04 | < Pi> | jerith: Still around? |
| 17:05 | <~Vornicus> | IT YOU |
| 17:08 | <&jeroud> | Pi: To varying degrees. |
| 17:09 | < Pi> | I've been a bit AFK. Had a large, unexpected dose of life happen: my one partner developed severe ME/CFS. |
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| 17:09 | < Pi> | jeroud: Cool. Hey. :) |
| 17:10 | | * jeroud hugs. |
| 17:11 | | * Pi hugs. |
| 17:12 | < Pi> | It's been a harsh while. It's still very touch and go, with Una's health. |
| 17:13 | <&jeroud> | As the number of online communications channels I need to pay attention to increases, my ability to pay regular attention to all of them decreases. |
| 17:13 | < Pi> | Yeah, that's definitely a thing. |
| 17:13 | <@gnolam> | OMG! It's a Pi! |
| 17:14 | <~Vornicus> | new pi not old pi |
| 17:14 | < Pi> | :D |
| 17:14 | < Pi> | jeroud: Is IRC still a regular hangout, or not so much anymore? |
| 17:15 | <&jeroud> | If jeroud's around, nickpings (for jeroud and jerith both) make my phone ding. |
| 17:16 | < Pi> | Cool. |
| 17:16 | <&jeroud> | I often don't actively participate for weeks at a time, though. |
| 17:17 | < Pi> | Yeah. I was also mostly more off than on, and eventually my IRCCloud subscription lapsed, in between all the chronic illness stuff. |
| 17:18 | <&jeroud> | I also find myself doing a lot less recreational programming than I used to. |
| 17:19 | < Pi> | I'm trying to do more! |
| 17:20 | <&jeroud> | I stopped trying to do more and found a new creative outlet. :-P |
| 17:20 | < Pi> | I've become a bit of a Rustacean since last being on IRC much. |
| 17:21 | < Pi> | Ah, what's that? |
| 17:21 | <&jeroud> | 3d artwork. |
| 17:22 | < Pi> | Ooh! |
| 17:22 | <&jeroud> | Mostly with Daz Studio (which primarily is posing and rendering tool) but also an increasing amount of Blender to build stuff to go in my Daz scenes. |
| 17:22 | < Pi> | Una's been doing cinematography (before she took a ME/CFS to the knee), and was trying to learn Blender for that. |
| 17:23 | < Pi> | Do you have your artwork anywhere? |
| 17:24 | <&jeroud> | Nope. I can't afford the assets, so I'm making liberal use of copyright violations while I learn. |
| 17:24 | < Pi> | Aha. :) |
| 17:24 | < Pi> | Unfair Use. |
| 17:25 | < Pi> | What kind of art is it? |
| 17:25 | <&jeroud> | My current goal is to put together a comic of some kind. |
| 17:25 | < Pi> | Neat! |
| 17:25 | <&jeroud> | All different kinds, depending on what I want to learn. |
| 17:26 | < Pi> | Very cool. :) |
| 17:26 | <&jeroud> | I have a handful of characters I often use. A boy and his wolf and two friends. |
| 17:26 | < Pi> | Sounds like something Una might want to chat about, if she gets well enough to have the spoons. |
| 17:27 | < Pi> | Cool. :) |
| 17:27 | < Pi> | Is that part of a story or setting? |
| 17:28 | < Pi> | (My partner Sonja might also be into this: she's been wanting to dabble in creating a visual novel, for stories she wants to tell.) |
| 17:28 | <&jeroud> | The wolf was one of the first things I found, and it was too cool not to use as a "boy and his dog, but more awesome" thing. |
| 17:29 | <&jeroud> | Daz is *much* easier to get started with than Blender, and the software's free. |
| 17:29 | <&jeroud> | They make money on assets. |
| 17:30 | < Pi> | I should point her at that. |
| 17:30 | <&jeroud> | Those characters are mostly used in individual scenes. |
| 17:30 | <&jeroud> | Sometimes short stories. |
| 17:31 | <&jeroud> | I'm using Inkscape for layout and lettering for the comics. |
| 17:32 | <&jeroud> | (Although so far those have only been one or two page experimental things.) |
| 17:34 | < Pi> | That's very cool. |
| 17:34 | < Pi> | If you want to share some of it, I'd be eager to follow! |
| 17:35 | <&jeroud> | I've been at it for almost seven months and I'm well beyond "beginner" but nowhere near "expert". |
| 17:36 | < Pi> | Hey, what really matters at the end of the day is just actually creating something, not technical expertise. |
| 17:36 | <&jeroud> | The process of learning has been really interesting, though. |
| 17:38 | <&jeroud> | Once I got past the initial flailing around with no clue, everything I've learned about learning tech stuff has been directly applicable. |
| 17:39 | < Pi> | Learning's portpable! |
| 17:39 | < Pi> | (portable, even) |
| 17:40 | <&jeroud> | And I've been able to see my ability to see things improve over time. |
| 17:41 | <&jeroud> | For example, I still have no idea what "good" lighting is but I'm much better at noticing "bad" lighting and fixing it. |
| 17:45 | <&jeroud> | For Blender, https://youtu.be/1jHUY3qoBu8 is the thing that finally got me started. |
| 17:46 | <&jeroud> | It's a 90 minute tutorial by a guy who does a lot of low poly modeling and it covers all the basics without getting lost in hours of explaining how to manipulate the ui like most tutorials do. |
| 17:47 | <~Vornicus> | oh that looks useful |
| 17:48 | <~Vornicus> | I wanted to model stuff but like going from "cube" to "no longer cube" befuddled me |
| 17:48 | <@Tamber> | "Step one: Remove all the pieces of the cube, that aren't supposed to be there for your non-cube object" |
| 17:48 | < Pi> | My current Rust pet protect is a new shell / UI concept, inspired by this essay: https://blog.abor.dev/p/unsh |
| 17:49 | <~Vornicus> | step 1: cube. step 2: draw the rest of the fucking owl |
| 17:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Blender is great. It just irritates me so vastly that I still occasionally consider dropping 500 quid to upgrade to Lightwave 2020 >.> |
| 18:01 | < Pi> | On a work tangent: if anyone here is keen on Rust, and looking for work, my company is looking for Rust developers. I figure this is not a bad place to put out feelers for good folk. :) |
| 18:03 | < Pi> | (If anyone's interested, message me, or mail pi@ntls.io or pjdelport@gmail.com) |
| 18:04 | < Pi> | Have you played with Unreal Engine? That's something Una really wanted to get into, for live / hybrid cinematography. |
| 18:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Pi: oh, Nautilus Compute looks neat |
| 18:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also, hi! Long time no see! Glad to see someone else enjoying Rust :) |
| 18:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | jeroud | As the number of online communications channels I need to pay attention to increases, my ability to pay regular attention to all of them decreases. |
| 18:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | This is one of the reasons I'm so adamant about wiring everything into IRC: my client gives me the tools to manage how my attention is spread. |
| 18:37 | <&jeroud> | Pi: I like Rust, but I still fight endlessly with it. |
| 18:38 | <&jeroud> | ToxicFrog: I can't wire WhatsApp and Slack into IRC, sadly. |
| 18:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | whatsapp I haven't tried, but Slack has (had?) an IRC gateway, and my IRC client of choice (weechat) has a plugin that speaks the Slack protocol natively |
| 18:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's the latter I used back when I was using slack at all |
| 18:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | Since it gives me a common UI and makes the same tools I use to manage IRC networks available to manage Slack |
| 18:40 | <&jeroud> | Slack retired the IRC gateway ages ago and weechat doesn't support some of the features I use extensively for work. |
| 18:41 | < Pi> | ToxicFrog: I don't want to take over the channel with work, but I'm happy to chat about it if anyone's curious! |
| 18:41 | <&jeroud> | That said, Slack is almost entirely a work thing these days and I'm fine with that being separate. |
| 18:41 | < Pi> | But yeah, Rust has been great. |
| 18:41 | < Pi> | Even the fighting with it has been great. |
| 18:43 | <&jeroud> | I once tried to talk github graphql with Rust. It went poorly. |
| 18:43 | < Pi> | The affine typing really is a deep insight, and learning it has been mind-expanding. |
| 18:44 | < Pi> | (I have a working theory that Rust's affine typing achieves the same kind of thing as Haskell's referential transparency at a deeper level, but through very different surface means.) |
| 18:44 | < Pi> | jeroud: I feel you. I want to use GraphQL for my pet project mentioned above, and it's a bit rough. |
| 18:45 | < Pi> | I have been second-guessing using GraphQL for that, but still keen. |
| 18:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | jeroud: aah, yeah -- I don't have work chat wired into IRC but it's also something I exclusively access from my work machine, while working, so I don't care |
| 18:50 | <&jeroud> | Anyway, it's less about different tools and more about the number of groups I'm in. |
| 18:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | In my case, the tools help me cope with the number of groups. |
| 18:52 | <&jeroud> | A bunch of stuff has moved online in the past couple of years (for obvious reasons) and a lot of other stuff that was already online has increased in volume. |
| 18:54 | <&jeroud> | So to keep up with friends and family and such, I'd have to spend an hour or two a day reading messages. |
| 18:54 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 18:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | In my case I'm in a lot of places, but the overall message volume is actually fairly low |
| 18:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | Less than yours, I think |
| 18:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | Despite being smeared across ~200 channels and ~20 networks. |
| 19:01 | <&jeroud> | That hour or two a day is probably overstating it. |
| 19:02 | <&jeroud> | It's the continuous stream of stuff that demands my attention that's the problem. |
| 19:03 | < Pi> | I have to timebox pretty strictly, for sanity. I usually just check message and media streams once a day or so, and have them out of access the rest of the time. |
| 19:04 | <&jeroud> | I deal with that by batching a lot of it, but that still means I'm spending more time reading chat logs than I used to. |
| 19:04 | < Pi> | Notifications only on critical things, like my partners' group chat. |
| 19:04 | <&jeroud> | Which in turn consumes my "interacting with people" spoon tray. |
| 19:05 | < Pi> | Yeah… I just dropped packets in a big way, when Una got sick. |
| 19:05 | < Pi> | Dropped the entire spoon tray, and the table it was on, more or less. |
| 19:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, my setup is -- notifications only on PMs + group chats with my {egg,feather,nest}-family; everything else gets flipped through in stackwise order when I'm otherwise idle, which mostly means "in the evening before bed + at work when waiting for unit tests" |
| 19:08 | <&jeroud> | I tend to do priority order, and nightstar's just far enough down the list that it often gets missed. |
| 19:12 | <&jeroud> | But nickpings notify because this isn't a place where that gets abused. |
| 19:15 | <&jeroud> | And occasionally it's very useful. Like now. :-D |
| 19:17 | < Pi> | Are you also more active elsewhere, anywhere in particular? Or still primarily here? |
| 19:17 | <&jeroud> | On IRC, primarily here. |
| 19:19 | <&jeroud> | There's an ever-growing WhatsApp group that started off as meatspace friends, though. |
| 19:20 | < Pi> | Oki. I've also fallen back largely to core family group chats (Telegram, nowadays), but I miss the good tech spaces. |
| 19:20 | < Pi> | I used to like the ZA Tech Slack, until that went bad. |
| 19:21 | <&jeroud> | That must have been after I stopped paying attention to it. |
| 19:21 | < Pi> | ToxicFrog: I'm curious: are "{egg,feather,nest}-family" disjoint sets? |
| 19:21 | <&jeroud> | So... sometime in the past half decade. |
| 19:22 | <&jeroud> | Pi: Overlapping more than disjoint. |
| 19:22 | <&jeroud> | Also, go read some Becky Chambers books. ;-) |
| 19:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | egg-family is the family you're born or hatched into; feather-family is family-of-choice, the family you flock with; nest-family is family you build a nest with. Nest-family members usually start out as feather-family. |
| 19:23 | < Pi> | Aha! That's pretty cool. |
| 19:23 | <&jeroud> | Long Way to a Small Angry Planet is the first. |
| 19:23 | < Pi> | (I was familiar with nesting family / nesting partners.) |
| 19:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | (or start out as your children -- Alex is part of my nest-family by virtue of being born to it, which means that I am part of her egg-family) |
| 19:25 | | * jeroud trusts ToxicFrog and Symbol to teach children how to be people. |
| 19:50 | < Pi> | jeroud: I remember back when I used to read. ~ |
| 19:50 | < Pi> | Those were the days. |
| 19:59 | <&McMartin> | Several pieces of big SDL news. https://www.patreon.com/posts/58563886 |
| 20:00 | <&McMartin> | I need to think about this some because I feel like I should make an actual Bumbershoot article about it |
| 20:00 | <&McMartin> | Also I *really* should have thought twice before calling my tech blog something where abbreviating it would result in "I need to write a BS article" |
| 20:00 | <&McMartin> | "a BSS article" isn't much better since that sort of implies that the articles have no content~ |
| 20:02 | <@gnolam> | That would've been even worse if you were Swedish. |
| 20:04 | <&McMartin> | I guess BSW would work. |
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| 20:30 | <@Tamber> | McMartin: It would indeed~ "Ah, a blog about obsolete technology!" |
| 20:34 | <&McMartin> | Or, in this case, the looming need for it~ |
| 20:34 | <@Tamber> | :D |
| 20:34 | <@Tamber> | "British Standard What, When?" |
| 20:35 | <&McMartin> | When you get right down to it, this is basically "glVertex was always good, just, um, can we have it not in kernel space?" |
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| 22:57 | < catalyst_> | BSS is Bronze Swimming Certificate |
| 22:57 | < catalyst_> | according to red dwarf anyway |
| 22:57 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 22:58 | <&McMartin> | I usually spell it .bss, and I think it's "beyond stack segment" |
| 22:58 | <&McMartin> | The part of the executable that describes space to reserve for uninitialized data |
| 23:34 | <@gnolam> | BSS to me is "Bevara Sverige Svenskt": "Preserve Sweden Swedish". A neo-nazi group from the early '90s. |
| 23:35 | <@gnolam> | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/BSS_-_Varning_till_svenska_flickor.jpg |
| 23:38 | <&McMartin> | Elch. |
| 23:39 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I'll stick with "beyond stack segment" for my first read of that acronym |
| --- Log closed Sat Nov 13 00:00:33 2021 |