| --- Log opened Fri Jul 30 00:00:12 2021 |
| 00:18 | | mac [macdjord@Nightstar-re5.7if.45.45.IP] has joined #code |
| 00:18 | | mode/#code [+o mac] by ChanServ |
| 00:21 | | macdjord [macdjord@Nightstar-re5.7if.45.45.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:34 | | himi [sjjf@Nightstar-1drtbs.anu.edu.au] has joined #code |
| 00:34 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 02:21 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-qmdd5p.pool.telefonica.de] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 02:22 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-5i90bj.pool.telefonica.de] has joined #code |
| 05:18 | | Vorntastic [uid293981@Nightstar-h2b233.irccloud.com] has joined #code |
| 05:18 | | mode/#code [+qo Vorntastic Vorntastic] by ChanServ |
| 05:37 | | himi [sjjf@Nightstar-1drtbs.anu.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:15 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-0th.oti.104.208.IP] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 06:16 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-0th.oti.104.208.IP] has joined #code |
| 06:16 | | mode/#code [+ao VirusJTG VirusJTG] by ChanServ |
| 09:56 | | gnolam_ [lenin@Nightstar-j9ajs0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 09:56 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-j9ajs0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [NickServ (RECOVER command used by gnolam_)] |
| 09:56 | | gnolam_ is now known as gnolam |
| 09:56 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 10:32 | | himi [sjjf@Nightstar-v37cpe.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 10:32 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 13:12 | | abudhabi- [abudhabi@Nightstar-ufkc5e.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 13:16 | | abudhabi [abudhabi@Nightstar-nr523u.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:28 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-jo4tqa.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 13:30 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-ejd4sd.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:50 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-jo4tqa.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:50 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-aukbon.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 14:03 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-ejd4sd.cable.virginm.net] has joined #code |
| 14:06 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-aukbon.dab.02.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 15:03 | | Vornicus [Vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 15:03 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 16:10 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 16:17 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-ejd4sd.cable.virginm.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: -a- Connection Timed Out] |
| 16:17 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-ejd4sd.cable.virginm.net] has joined #code |
| 16:18 | | abudhabi__ [abudhabi@Nightstar-rhfpgl.centertel.pl] has joined #code |
| 16:18 | | abudhabi_ [abudhabi@Nightstar-tn9bth.centertel.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 16:58 | | Vorntastic [uid293981@Nightstar-h2b233.irccloud.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] |
| 17:37 | < Yossarian> | So I had insomnia and networking issues (802.11 sure ie greeat) so after probing dmesg a few times to see, launched wireshark and then thought to identify all the networking gear |
| 17:39 | < Yossarian> | isn't there some tool that people use called metasploit and if poc's are available they'll essentially be locked in but not sure about scanning abilities |
| 18:07 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-aukbon.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 18:09 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-ejd4sd.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:31 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 18:35 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-aukbon.dab.02.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 18:35 | | catalys22 [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 18:37 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:00 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:02 | | catalys22 [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:06 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:07 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:12 | | JustLurk [justbob@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 19:12 | | JustBob [justbob@Nightstar.Customer.Dissatisfaction.Administrator] has quit [NickServ (RECOVER command used by JustLurk)] |
| 19:12 | | JustLurk is now known as JustBob |
| 19:12 | | mode/#code [+o JustBob] by ChanServ |
| 19:13 | | macdjord|slep [macdjord@Nightstar-re5.7if.45.45.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:13 | | mode/#code [+o macdjord|slep] by ChanServ |
| 19:15 | | mac [macdjord@Nightstar-re5.7if.45.45.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:26 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:29 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:31 | | Emmy [Emmy@Nightstar-l49opt.fixed.kpn.net] has joined #code |
| 19:38 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:39 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 19:43 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:44 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:48 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:48 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:49 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 19:54 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:54 | | m4221 [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-0np.bf3.170.184.IP] has joined #code |
| 19:54 | < m4221> | boo |
| 19:57 | <@Tamber> | Aah! |
| 19:57 | < m4221> | I see you have been spooked |
| 19:58 | < m4221> | Let me rant about crapintosh! |
| 20:00 | < m4221> | Their plastics do not age well! |
| 20:06 | | m4221 is now known as merc4221 |
| 20:08 | <&McMartin> | What model are we talking |
| 20:08 | < merc4221> | Anything beige and in the 1990s |
| 20:08 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 20:08 | | merc4221 is now known as m4221 |
| 20:10 | <&McMartin> | I do a lot of wacky retro stuff so I'm only half kidding when I say "so, not the SE then?" >_> |
| 20:12 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:16 | | FLHerne [flh@Nightstar-tuvrp1.uk] has joined #code |
| 20:20 | <&[R]> | `return this.data[n / 6 ? n : 0]` Not sure if that's clever or stupid |
| 20:22 | < m4221> | McMartin: I have a Mac Classic, SE and SE/30 |
| 20:22 | < m4221> | [R]: Is that C or Java? |
| 20:22 | <&McMartin> | R: I'd put parens around (n/6) just for clarity |
| 20:22 | <&[R]> | I typoed it, BTW, n / 6 ? 0 : n |
| 20:23 | <&[R]> | Java yeah |
| 20:23 | <&McMartin> | Though if you were feeling like a total dick, `this` is not a keyword in C so you could totally name a struct variable that and it would be legal :D |
| 20:24 | <&[R]> | Thus giving headaches to C++ devs who try and use the code |
| 20:25 | <&McMartin> | that'll learn 'em |
| 20:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: isn't that just `n >= 6 ? 0 : n` except more confusing? |
| 20:27 | <&[R]> | Yup |
| 20:27 | <&[R]> | Also more cycles right? |
| 20:27 | < m4221> | My C is still with me. Go away bad memories of pointers |
| 20:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | > Also more cycles right? |
| 20:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | Division is generally pretty slow but hotspot is pretty good, it might be able to optimize it to the faster expression |
| 20:30 | <&McMartin> | You also might not lose total cycles if it can superscalar it up enough |
| 20:55 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 20:58 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:04 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 21:04 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 21:19 | < m4221> | McMartin, the ROM boot in the Macintosh Classic is neat. |
| 21:33 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 21:35 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:38 | <&McMartin> | I have to admit I've mostly bounced off the Mac Classic environment, though I've had a few goes at it |
| 21:39 | <&McMartin> | It and the SNES are my two famous systems for which I've done nothing significant with my hobby stuff |
| 21:39 | <&McMartin> | (Did manage to get some goodness out of an Atari ST this year though.) |
| 21:39 | < m4221> | The 68000 is a quirky processor. |
| 21:39 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 21:40 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. I feel like I'm at least basically competent with it now though. |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | I've written stuff in asm with it for both the ST and the Genesis/Mega Drive directly now |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | It's probably about as good as my Z80 |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | 6502 is still my best overall though, I imagine |
| 21:42 | < m4221> | It looks like using ROM BIOS routines were a common practice back in the 1980s and 1990s |
| 21:43 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:43 | <&McMartin> | Oh yeah. And even when you didn't, it was software that overlaid it |
| 21:43 | | * McMartin gestures vaguely at the Amiga and its Kickstart ROMs and Discs |
| 21:43 | <&McMartin> | ... I guess I also haven't done anything worthwhile with the Amiga |
| 21:44 | <&McMartin> | RISC OS (Acorn Archimedes) is still in development! I have a version running on my RasPi |
| 21:47 | < m4221> | McMartin: When I used Mac OS 8, I got tired of it, so I put Linux on my beige Power Macintosh 7300s. |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | This is #code so I guess I should ask which kind of coding you most often do |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | So as not to go flying off into the weeds in a response about things only I care about |
| 22:06 | < m4221> | C, Java, Python, PowerShell, Bash |
| 22:06 | <&McMartin> | Got it |
| 22:06 | <&McMartin> | In that case: I get the impression that the C++ era and thus System 7-ish is a point where the Mac's memory model designed for getting the max out of 128KB of RAM starts flying apart at the seams |
| 22:07 | <&McMartin> | On the C side that would be "a shitload of malloc" instead of actually using the BIOS's own memory allocation stuff |
| 22:07 | <&McMartin> | Which, if your C wasn't for that stuff |
| 22:07 | <&McMartin> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Mac_OS_memory_management has a lovely disgusted weary tone throughout |
| 22:07 | < m4221> | Macintosh System 7 memory management was laughable at best |
| 22:08 | < m4221> | Process management was a roflcopter |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | m4221: I mean |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | Up through System 9 |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | It was still the 1984 memory model |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | That was the whole problem |
| 22:09 | < m4221> | Also, cooperative multitasking was just awful. |
| 22:09 | <&McMartin> | Still baffles me that this was a thing so much |
| 22:10 | <&McMartin> | *DOS* could build pre-emptive multitasking. So could the C64. |
| 22:10 | < m4221> | microsoft did away with it in the windows 95 and nt days |
| 22:10 | <&McMartin> | Yep |
| 22:10 | < m4221> | yes, msft |
| 22:10 | <&McMartin> | It's been long enough now that we're allowed to give MS credit for things |
| 22:11 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, the old crack about how Windows 95 Is Apple 84 is such a stupendous lie that it isn't even laughable |
| 22:11 | < m4221> | DOS was indeed a quick and dirty operating system |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | I'm mostly curious why MS went with co-op for Windows 3.x, since DOS task managers could be and I think often were pre-emptive, and Win95 was itself a DOS shell |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | They absolutely were not alone, but unlike the story with memory protection I don't really have a sense of why co-op ever ruled |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | "The chips that are capable of it won't be invented for like five years" is a pretty good reason |
| 22:14 | < m4221> | Windows 95 was not a DOS shell. It was in effect an operating system that used DOS as a bootloader. Windows 95 puts the computer straight into V86 mode on startup. |
| 22:15 | <&McMartin> | Oh does it? |
| 22:15 | <&McMartin> | For some reason I thought that didn't happen until Win98. |
| 22:15 | < m4221> | Windows 3.1 used pre-emptive multitasking in 386 Enhanced Mode for DOS applications. That was provided through V86 mode in the 386 and above processors. |
| 22:15 | <&McMartin> | Hmm |
| 22:16 | < m4221> | Native Windows 3.1 applications used cooperative multitasking |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | OK, that sounds to me like co-op must have had some kind of efficiency benefit in the absence of V86. |
| 22:16 | < m4221> | It could have been evolution of code too. |
| 22:17 | <&McMartin> | True. I don't actually know what the Alto used |
| 22:18 | <&McMartin> | But the standard DOS trick was to set up a TSR and have it hook the clock interrupt |
| 22:18 | <&McMartin> | Which is "basically" pre-emptive |
| 22:18 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:19 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 22:22 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 22:29 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has joined #code |
| 22:32 | | catalys78 [catalyst@Nightstar-ndq8hn.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 22:33 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:35 | | catalyst_ [catalyst@Nightstar-8f3.nhk.124.31.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:45 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-ejd4sd.cable.virginm.net] has joined #code |
| 22:48 | | catalys78 [catalyst@Nightstar-ndq8hn.dab.02.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 22:53 | | macdjord|slep [macdjord@Nightstar-re5.7if.45.45.IP] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 22:56 | | m4221 [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-0np.bf3.170.184.IP] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] |
| 22:59 | | macdjord [macdjord@Nightstar-re5.7if.45.45.IP] has joined #code |
| 22:59 | | mode/#code [+o macdjord] by ChanServ |
| 23:44 | | Emmy [Emmy@Nightstar-l49opt.fixed.kpn.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 23:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | The taxonomy of this website is baffling |
| 23:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | For example |
| 23:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | You have /food/pantry/pasta, /food/pantry/pasta/pasta, and /food/pasta-rice-beans/pasta |
| 23:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | These are all completely distinct taxonomical nodes with different contents |
| 23:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | I think that /food/pantry/pasta/pasta is a subset of /food/pantry/pasta but I'm not even 100% sure of that |
| --- Log closed Sat Jul 31 00:00:14 2021 |