| --- Log opened Tue Jul 27 00:00:57 2021 |
| 00:22 | <@celticminstrel> | I don’t think so, no. |
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| 09:49 | <@sshine> | my team is sitting pretty close to a bathroom, so we frequently look up as someone approaches us, only to find out we're staring awkwardly as they're about to go in and do their deeds. I still instinctively lookup and realize I should ignore them. |
| 09:50 | <@sshine> | today the bathroom broke, and we decided to put a note on the door. but apparently people don't look for notes in the same way; we put it at eyesight level, but then people who just walk around looking into their phones don't notice it. placing the note just above the availability icon on the door seems to work. |
| 09:50 | <@sshine> | sorry, the toilet broke. |
| 09:50 | <@sshine> | also, this is a restroom, not a bathroom. |
| 09:51 | <@sshine> | my current team has a high interest in UX, so that's nice. :) |
| 10:39 | <&Reiver> | Yes, people look at bathroom doors at the In Use location because that's where the relevant information is displayed on the panel |
| 10:39 | <&Reiver> | Therefore this is where one puts the sign |
| 10:40 | <&Reiver> | Sometimes good UX is counterintuitive, because we intuit the wrong part of the concept! |
| 10:41 | <&Reiver> | Also I sit in an L-shaped office, with one door to my left and one door behind me. The door behind me throws me Every Single Time. It was nigh intolerable until a co-worker gifted me a small boon: A car wingmirror field of view mirror. AKA: A teeny tiny wide-angle rear view mirror. |
| 10:41 | <&Reiver> | I stuck it on the top right corner of my monitor, and no longer get permanently startled by people coming up behind me~ |
| --- Log closed Tue Jul 27 10:59:09 2021 |
| --- Log opened Tue Jul 27 10:59:17 2021 |
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| 11:12 | <@sshine> | Reiver, ha, smrt. |
| 11:21 | <&Reiver> | (And right hand side? Why, that's where I glance when driving the car too, duh.) |
| 11:33 | < catalyst> | you don't turn left? |
| 11:38 | <@sshine> | there's no door, I presume |
| 11:38 | | * sshine is reminded of the saying "two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left." |
| 11:39 | <@sshine> | supposedly, by extension, Reiver can look three times to the right in case anyone comes flying through the window? |
| 11:39 | < catalyst> | I meant in the car x) |
| 11:40 | <@sshine> | ah 🤓 I had one summer of rollerblading many years ago where I looked so much to the left, specifically, that I made such a crick in my neck that I couldn't turn it, at all. |
| 11:41 | < catalyst> | eek |
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| 12:52 | <&Reiver> | The L shape is technically a, uh |
| 12:52 | <&Reiver> | ˥ |
| 12:52 | <&Reiver> | So to my left is the other door, which does not bother me because it is visible in my peripheral vision |
| 12:53 | <&Reiver> | Mirror on right top corner is handy in the similar manner to checking ones right hand mirror when driving. |
| 12:53 | <&Reiver> | (Dead center at the top could also theoretically work and be even more comparable to the rear vision mirror, but then my head would be in the way of the door to the rear.) |
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| 13:19 | < abudhabi_> | Zero interruptions due to power outage. I am very pleased. |
| 13:43 | < catalyst_> | Reiver: yeah just the way you put it makes you sound like you don't use the left mirror in a car :p |
| 13:53 | <&Reiver> | oh, lol |
| 13:53 | <&Reiver> | I mean |
| 13:53 | <&Reiver> | Like 10% as much as the right one? >_> |
| 13:53 | <&Reiver> | When reversing, when turning/merging left, when in a middle lane on the motorway, otherwise... ehhh |
| 13:54 | <&Reiver> | Wheras rear mirror and right mirror get checked about as often as the speedo |
| 13:54 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-ejd4sd.cable.virginm.net] has joined #code |
| 13:54 | <&Reiver> | (Indeed, I tend to check them in sequence) |
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| 14:15 | < catalyst> | admittedly my driver's side wing mirror literally fell off and I managed fine without it for several months |
| 14:17 | <&Reiver> | hahaha |
| 14:17 | <&Reiver> | Yeah, you really need rear|driver mirror |
| 14:17 | <&Reiver> | One or the other |
| 14:18 | <&Reiver> | One of my older cars didn't even have a passenger mirror... and the driver side mirror was an aftermarket addition. |
| 14:21 | < catalyst> | huh, the thing is the passenger mirror is way more useful than the driver side one though |
| 14:22 | | * Reiver handwavies |
| 14:23 | <&Reiver> | When you need it, it's a huge help especially with blind spots on that side of the car |
| 14:23 | <&Reiver> | But you need it vastly less often in routine usage |
| 14:23 | <&Reiver> | So I can see the logic of the Order The Mirrors Got Added, as it were |
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| 15:08 | < abudhabi_> | ._. |
| 15:09 | < abudhabi_> | Diagnosing email problems for my parents over the phone. |
| 15:09 | < abudhabi_> | These interfaces really weren't made for older folks. |
| 15:11 | < abudhabi_> | They really have no idea which parts they should summarily ignore, and I have to bloody well *imagine* what they see so I can help them press the right buttons. |
| 15:11 | < abudhabi_> | I'm not even really mad at the kindergarten-level password complexity. |
| 15:13 | < abudhabi_> | If they had to follow even the most basic proper security measures, they wouldn't have been able to use email at all, I think. |
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| 15:40 | <@gnolam> | You can't use TeamViewer or something? |
| 15:54 | < abudhabi_> | Not installed, but that's a good idea. |
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| 18:35 | < abudhabi_> | Is there some linux (UI or console) utility to sort files by time of last access? I have a lot of PDFs that I'd like to determine which ones I actually open frequently (or at all). |
| 18:40 | <@TheWatcher> | I think `ls -lut` should do it? |
| 18:41 | <@TheWatcher> | You might want `ls -lurt` if you want the latest access at the end rather than the start. |
| 18:42 | < abudhabi_> | How does this work on folders? |
| 18:43 | <@TheWatcher> | Not sure, most of my partitions are mounted noatime, so can't really check. |
| 19:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | They get sorted with everything else, but I'm not sure what counts as "access" for the purpose of updating a directory's atime |
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| 19:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | Cursory googling says that reading the contents of the directory (but not necessarily reading individual files in it that you already know exist) counts as an atime hit for dirs. |
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| 19:22 | < abudhabi_> | Interdasting. Thanks! |
| 19:47 | <&McMartin> | That makes sense. IIRC, readdir_r etc involve passing the directory itself to open(2) or a related call. |
| 19:49 | <~Vornicus> | but then how does -- how do you navigate to the file through the dir, if you don't ...read it... |
| 19:49 | <&McMartin> | You pass the entire path, with subdirectories, to open(). |
| 19:56 | <~Vornicus> | right but then... okay, how does open do the step of - I have /home/vorn/cheese.txt . this means it checks the / directory for home, then /home/ for vorn, then /home/vorn/ for cheese.txt. I know these involve actually looking at files associated with the directory |
| 19:59 | <~Vornicus> | like if I'm doing this on a fucking tape deck I know it's gotta seek to those directory files to figure out what's going on, how does it do this and not |
| 19:59 | <~Vornicus> | I mean |
| 20:04 | <&McMartin> | My vague recollection is "this is up to the filesystem to determine" |
| 20:05 | <&McMartin> | Like, there's nothing stopping a tape from having a file on its linear track called /home/vorn/cheese.txt and you wouldn't want that to count as accessing every file prior to it from wherever the tape head was |
| 20:06 | <&McMartin> | Well, maybe you would |
| 20:06 | <~Vornicus> | right that much is not what I mean |
| 20:07 | <~Vornicus> | what I mean is, it's got to look at a thing for /, and a thing for /home/, and a thing for /home/vorn/, and if you don't you will not be able to get there |
| 20:07 | <&McMartin> | But given how directories seem to work, it seems pretty clear that POSIX went with "atime is The Time It Was The Leaf You Opened Directly" |
| 20:07 | <&McMartin> | Ah right |
| 20:07 | <&McMartin> | Well, why couldn't a filesystem notice that it sure seems to be opening stuff in /home/vorn/devel a lot and keep a shortcut directly to that inode |
| 20:10 | <&McMartin> | (Also: why should picking a single file out of a directory be the same operation as enumerating its files; hashtable lookup isn't hashtable enumeration, after all) |
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| 23:33 | <&[R]> | McMartin, Vornicus: https://termbin.com/1ik3l |
| 23:34 | <&[R]> | https://termbin.com/rzm6 <-- what ls does |
| 23:34 | <&[R]> | (and yes, I wrote something to E with that vim command) |
| 23:58 | <&McMartin> | Tha does look consistent with "atime is altered only on the leaf of a path sent to a file-related syscall" |
| 23:58 | <&McMartin> | Since I guess stat(2) isn't open(2), is it |
| --- Log closed Wed Jul 28 00:00:10 2021 |