| --- Log opened Wed Oct 28 00:00:26 2020 |
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| 08:11 | < Yossarian> | representing 3d space with octtrees? |
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| 08:14 | < Yossarian> | http://www.gameaipro.com/GameAIPro3/GameAIPro3_Chapter21_3D_Flight_Navigation_Using_Sparse_Voxel_Octrees.pdf |
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| 09:31 | <@ErikMesoy> | Yossarian: I do not have a similar book to hand on game engine creation, but I have dabbled quite a bit myself. A lot of it is the usual object-oriented-programming stuff but scaled up to much larger objects that have many more functions for interacting with each other. But there's also so much variety it's hard for me to generalize usefully. |
| 09:33 | <@ErikMesoy> | I'm not familiar with the X series, but looking at it, I imagine there's a lot of standard actor templates in the code proper, and then a domain scripting language on top for operating with high-level entities. |
| 09:38 | <@ErikMesoy> | This may or may not be integrated into the usual Model-View-Control or Model-Interface whatever other kind of code separation you like to use. |
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| 15:09 | < catalyst> | "someone asks... 'do we need to use volatile?'. No. That was easy. Please do not use volatile for anything ever" |
| 15:09 | < catalyst> | (Arthur O'Dwyer in his concurrency talk from CppCon 2020) |
| 15:32 | < Vornicus> | ugh. Okay I need a better structure for this. i have a bunch of methods I want private which means testing them "externally" is hard, I have a bunch of metaprogramming that's happening behind the scenes and that needs testing... guh. |
| 15:33 | < Vornicus> | like I get it, you're doing this stuff to get performance, but like ... wow it makes it hard to make sure it's right |
| 15:33 | <@TheWatcher> | catalyst: That's an interesting position, I wonder what his solution for memory mapped peripheral registers in embedded systems is >.> |
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| 16:01 | < catalyst> | this was in the context of a beginner's guide to concurrency :) |
| 16:01 | < catalyst> | I think if you're essentially writing drivers you probably have a more nuanced view |
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| 17:18 | <@TheWatcher> | catalyst: aaaah, right. Yeah, in that case, fair enough. |
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| 18:12 | <&McMartin> | Well, more to the point |
| 18:12 | <&McMartin> | The thing TW describes is essentially the only correct use case for volatile |
| 18:12 | <&McMartin> | So the nuanced version of the question is "is that memory location directly mapped to hardware I/O? No, no it is not. Thus: do not use volatile." |
| 18:13 | <&McMartin> | There's a certain breed of systems programmer that thinks that "have the asm re-issue a memory load" actually helps in the absense of synchronization operations |
| 18:13 | <&McMartin> | Sadly, NUMA has been a thing for a while, and caches have been a thing for a very long time indeed :) |
| 18:37 | < Vornicus> | O-ZONE has entered the chat |
| 18:38 | | * McMartin erects a read barrier |
| 19:21 | < Reiver> | Y'know |
| 19:21 | < Reiver> | As a guide-to-newbies, having the answer to "Oh hey, what's this tool do? When should I use it?" be "Don't." is not a bad starting point |
| 19:22 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, but the problem is that bright newbies often like to ask the extremely good question "why does this feature exist?" |
| 19:23 | <&McMartin> | And volatile is particularly nasty on this because "what does this tool do?", when answered in the way that the standard specifies and in the way that can be read out of disassemblies (bright newbies get aggressive) turns out to be dangerously misleading! |
| 19:24 | < Reiver> | aha, yes |
| 19:24 | <&McMartin> | tbh I haven't properly mastered the state of the art in that domain where one used to be able to fake with volatile. |
| 19:24 | <&McMartin> | to be even more honest, the correct answer to newbies is not merely "don't use volatile" but also "don't use multithreading" |
| 19:27 | < Reiver> | legit |
| 19:28 | <&McMartin> | I'd like to also say "and also don't use asynchronous callbacks" but it turns out that, much like how volatile used to be a jury-rigged solution that worked for this stuff, the surrounding environment of a newbie programmer is a lot more complicated than it was in the mid-1980s~ |
| 19:45 | < Reiver> | I believe it |
| 19:46 | < Reiver> | I am increasingly sympathetic to video games that manage to multi-thread in precisely one place: Offloading AI to a different core and then letting it make decisions and respond like an actual player |
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| 19:46 | < Reiver> | (After all, it's fiiiiiine, players have input lag too, right?) |
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| --- Log closed Thu Oct 29 00:00:27 2020 |