| --- Log opened Tue Jun 30 00:00:29 2020 |
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| 00:50 | <&[R]> | Hey, I've been doing some reflection lately and thinking about past events |
| 00:50 | <&[R]> | Just wondering if anyone would mind if I asked for some sanity check on how I handled things, or if I actually should've done something more |
| 00:58 | <&[R]> | First one was my second job out of post-secondary, but first at the actual position I was studying for, which was systems administration. I had been hired on to help get ready of a major (yearly) security audit. For the first month I was working two jobs (40 hours for helldesk, ~30 hours for this one). My direct boss knew my hours for both jobs. We spent 2 months getting everything ready and up to snuff. I had quit the helldesk job about a month before the audit |
| 00:58 | <&[R]> | , so I could be full time for the sys admin job. Anyways, we busted or butts, and we passed with some caveats. I spent the following week ironing out those caveats, and getting them all done. I asked my boss if there was any other projects that needed attention, he said there wasn't. So I asked if I could take a week off (unpaid if necessary) to calm down, since the last two months were crazy. He said absolutely not, I pushed but never got any time off during |
| 00:58 | <&[R]> | the ~16 months I worked for that company. Was I unreasonable in asking this? |
| 00:59 | < Mahal> | What country are you in? |
| 00:59 | < Mahal> | because that hugely informs the answer. |
| 00:59 | <&[R]> | I was in Canada working remotely for a US company |
| 00:59 | < Mahal> | For.ex, I am not in the US, but the US approach seems to be "lol, fuck you" when it comes to concepts like annual leave. |
| 01:00 | <&McMartin> | The US is very bimodal about vacation time |
| 01:00 | <@Reiv> | Were you salaried or hourly contract? |
| 01:00 | <&[R]> | Salary |
| 01:00 | <&McMartin> | That said, the part that surprises me the most about this story is that both your employers were OK with you working two full-time jobs. |
| 01:00 | < Mahal> | (If salaried, then in NZ, the assumption is you do not take leave until the end of your first YEAR at an employer) |
| 01:01 | <&[R]> | One didn't know |
| 01:01 | < Mahal> | McMartin: that is less surprising to me, as I know several people who do this for fiscal survival. |
| 01:01 | <&[R]> | Okay, let's set asside legality here |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | Mahal: I've generally been on higher-salary positions, but my employment agreements tended to require asserting that I wasn't working any other full-time positions. |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | (Obviously not when contracting) |
| 01:02 | <@Reiv> | The key word being higher salary, but |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 01:02 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, in NZ you get leave after a year |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | I've seen two forms of vacation stuff in US companies |
| 01:02 | <@Reiv> | Many places let you spend accrued, but are not obliged |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | One of them is that you would average two weeks of leave a year but it's accumulated pro rata with every pay period |
| 01:03 | <&[R]> | Professionally, should I have not done that? There wasn't any project work, I had just busted my ass for 2 months, had very few weekends off, and just wanted a breather. |
| 01:03 | <@Reiv> | mm. Might've done better just going for a couple days added to a weekend rather than a full week. |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | The other is that they flatly don't track it at all, but hold you to deadlines anyway and then don't pay out when you leave. |
| 01:03 | <@Reiv> | But again, even in NZ you would've had no leave owed. |
| 01:04 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: ... don't track it at all? |
| 01:04 | <@Reiv> | aka 'take whatever leave, we don't care, but you must get it all done'? |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | Basically, yes. |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | But then that also means, when they quit, you cannot go to them and say "you owe me X additional weeks pay for the vacation I didn't take", which is also Standard in that first case. |
| 01:04 | <@Reiv> | I see |
| 01:05 | <@Reiv> | use it or lose it, eh |
| 01:05 | <&McMartin> | There is a very delicate unspoken social contract around it, yeah. |
| 01:05 | <&McMartin> | And engineers in particular have a tendency to lose it if they're focusing on something they think is important >_> |
| 01:05 | <@Reiv> | yyyup |
| 01:05 | <@Reiv> | wheras the company doesn't care, in the end |
| 01:05 | <@Reiv> | Anyway, R |
| 01:05 | <@Reiv> | How long had you been working for them when you asked for a week off? |
| 01:06 | <&[R]> | ~2 months as mentioned |
| 01:07 | <@Reiv> | If I tried to ask for a week off after being in a job for 2 months, I would be told 'no' too |
| 01:07 | <@Reiv> | Unless it was To Visit My Ailing Grandparent In Checkslovakia, or the like |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I'd say that if I used the "we track it pro-rata" case, after 2 months the "reasonablee" ask would be 2 days, and it would require some string pulling... |
| 01:08 | <@Reiv> | And 'because I am tired' is a bit of a push |
| 01:08 | <@Reiv> | The "Hey, I worked a bunch of weekends in a row, could I maybe have Monday off?" would probably swing a little easier |
| 01:09 | <@Reiv> | If you got really cheeky, "Could I do a Friday-Monday break?" |
| 01:09 | <@Reiv> | But "Could I take a full week off for no justification than tired" is pushing it |
| 01:09 | <@Reiv> | Remember: It was crazy *for you* but it's not *their* problem you were working two jobs for a chunk of it |
| 01:10 | <@Reiv> | And be very careful about the weekend work: Did they *instruct* you to do it, or did you do it out of a perceived workload necessity? |
| 01:10 | <&[R]> | Okay, fair enough. I thought it was reasonable since while I was working both jobs my days were: helldesk: (Fri: 8 hours; Sat: 12 hours: Sun: 12 hours: Mon: 8 hours) and sys-admin: (Tuesday: ~10 hours; Wed: ~10 hours; Thurs: ~10 hours). |
| 01:10 | <@Reiv> | Right, but your helldesk hours are not their problem |
| 01:10 | <@Reiv> | Unless you were working that for them as well |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | ... actually in the pro-rata case, Friday-Monday would be completely fine. |
| 01:11 | <@Reiv> | McMartin: Right, though you'd still need to Ask Nicely as you'd be scraping the barrel of leave a bit |
| 01:11 | <&[R]> | Alright |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | Well, I just did the math and you wouldn't ;) After 2 months you'd have accrued 20 hours of vacation, and you could spend 16 of them on the 4-day weekend. |
| 01:12 | <@Reiv> | ha, fair |
| 01:12 | <&[R]> | Yeah, I was a contractor, paid a salary though |
| 01:12 | <@Reiv> | I wasn't sure how exacting you were being |
| 01:12 | <@Reiv> | Right |
| 01:12 | <@Reiv> | Asa salary |
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| 01:12 | <@Reiv> | Your overtime is not your bosses problem |
| 01:12 | <@Reiv> | UNLESS |
| 01:12 | <@Reiv> | He instructs you to do it. |
| 01:12 | <&[R]> | Yeah |
| 01:13 | <&[R]> | Okay, so shitty situation, but my fault ultimately |
| 01:13 | <@Reiv> | "I worked til 7 every night last week :(" "That's nice. Did you get the work done? You're paid to get it done, not my fault if you're slow." |
| 01:13 | <@Reiv> | vs |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | "Hey, Boss, with the extra work requirements, this isn't possible on top of my regular duties without overtime. Call it til 7 each night?" "Oh, I suppose." |
| 01:14 | <@Reiv> | Here, if I say that, I earn time in lieu |
| 01:15 | <@Reiv> | (Even if two half-days on the weekend suck waaaay more than the day of leave you theoretically earn back) |
| 01:15 | <@Reiv> | And yeah, if you bust your ass with out-of-curricula activities they're not required to give a shit |
| 01:15 | <@Reiv> | In fact, they may even question you on whether what you're doing is impacting your quality of work during *their* work hours |
| 01:16 | <@Reiv> | Which is harsh, but, y'know |
| 01:16 | <@Reiv> | As noted, McM has a 'no second full time job' rider |
| 01:16 | <@Reiv> | So does mine |
| 01:16 | <@Reiv> | (Actually I have a 'must get managers consent and sign-off from HR') |
| 01:17 | <@Reiv> | (For any and all other jobs, with paperwork promising the other job will not impact my ability to execute my main one, including professional-ethics-ally) |
| 01:18 | <&[R]> | Second situation: Canadian elementary school, grade 6. I had misplaced my math textbook for 2-3 weeks (Forget how long, but it definately was at least 2 weeks). Since 100% of all homework was based off of the sample problems from the textbook not having one meant I couldn't do the homework. A significant amount of time was spent looking for my book (both at school and a home) during time I would've otherwise been doing the homework. I was getting screamed at by |
| 01:18 | <&[R]> | both my teacher and my mother about this. My locker was turned inside out, my cubby was the same, my room, etc. Many hours a week searching for it and we couldn't find it. About a week into this I asked if I could at least get some photocopies of the problems so I could at least work in class for this. No, absolutely not, I had to find the book. So cue more fruitless searching, and screaming. I'm at my wits end and just beg both my teacher and mother to let me |
| 01:18 | <&[R]> | at least do the work from a copy. No. |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | My serious advice: Don't second-guess your actions as a child |
| 01:20 | <&[R]> | Finally, my friend finds *his* book in his cubby, which during the entire time we were looking he never ever looked at. Turns out he was using *my* book the entire time (as we had done a joint project together and we were both using my book, and he took it at the end). So finally my book was found, no apology, just "okay, *now* you can do your entire back catalogue of homework, I expect to see it tommorow.". Am I right in thinking that was absolutely cruel? |
| 01:22 | <&[R]> | (And my mother forced me to do it, it took me 6 hours or something like that) |
| 01:22 | <@Reiv> | WRT childhood traumas, speak to a therapist, not to us. |
| 01:23 | <&[R]> | Fair enough |
| 01:23 | <@Reiv> | Quite possible there were other considerations at the time that you were not aware of and thus you ended up a pawn in a particular battle. Who knows. You wouldn't. |
| 01:24 | <@Reiv> | Or maybe your teacher was a sociopath who skins preschoolers for sashimi! |
| 01:24 | <@Reiv> | Either way: If it bothers you enough to ask |
| 01:24 | <@Reiv> | That is a matter for therapy, not professional relationship development. |
| 01:25 | <&[R]> | Okay thanks |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | My more abrupt answer should also be read in the scope of "professional relationship development" |
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| 01:29 | <@Reiv> | Indeed. |
| 01:32 | < catalyst_> | whilst it might be off topic for the channel, I'm sorry that happened to you, [R], that sounds like a really shitty thing to happen to you |
| 01:55 | < Mahal> | Re: the leave question |
| 01:55 | < Mahal> | Your employers are there to get work done - the health and wellness of their employees is not their problem. |
| 01:56 | < Mahal> | You are expected to manage that yourself, ideally outside of working hours, and not to require more than your legally/contractually mandated annual leave, taken at the times considered appropriate by your local laws and/or industry. |
| 01:56 | < Mahal> | "being tired" is not their problem |
| 01:56 | < Mahal> | (I'm in the "long weekend might have worked" camp, myself, but a week off would not have flown in my neck of the woods either) |
| 01:56 | < Mahal> | Unless it was a predetermined vacation your employer knew about at the start of your employ |
| 02:32 | <@Reiv> | And indeed, there is often a lot of wisdom to having had such a thing booked even if no such booking actually exists |
| 02:33 | <@Reiv> | "Yeah, I've got a holiday booked in... quick what's two months from now... August. Yeah, just a week. I can confirm dates later." |
| 02:33 | <@Reiv> | Most employers care very little about a job negotiation that involves a random week's leave |
| 02:34 | <@Reiv> | ... and boy howdy new jobs are exhausting, so having a break two or three months in can be a godsend. ;) |
| 02:34 | | * Mahal nodnod |
| 02:34 | < Mahal> | unless there's a handy public holiday |
| 02:34 | <@Reiv> | oh |
| 02:34 | <@Reiv> | Then you /definitely/ had some leave that week~ |
| 02:34 | <@Reiv> | Oh, no plane tickets or anything, it's just family gathering stuff. |
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| 03:23 | <&McMartin> | I should break out my own Refactor Tractor over here. |
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| 07:17 | <&McMartin> | Hooray, my code works! |
| 07:17 | <&McMartin> | Unfortunately, it is now terrible. |
| 08:43 | | * McMartin gets his DX9 program to survive having its resources yanked away. |
| 08:43 | <&McMartin> | Unfortunately, it then pegs a CPU while trying to get them back, so I've got a bit more work to do before I have a proper application shell. |
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| 09:26 | < catalyst_> | hurray! |
| 09:27 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. This data injection is working so well I'm considering adding an actual simulation mode. |
| 09:27 | <&McMartin> | It is completely stupid how tiny C programs are when you don't give a damn about portability |
| 09:28 | <&McMartin> | I am very deep into "deal with all the bullshit cases that are why people stuck with OpenGL even for Windows-only stuff" and my application is still, like, 12KB |
| 09:30 | <&McMartin> | Also, given that I'm targeting an API from 18 years ago, when the PS2 was just getting off the ground, does that count as retrocoding now that the PS5 is coming out this year? |
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| 09:34 | <&McMartin> | Oh I can solve this by locking the framerate |
| 09:37 | <&McMartin> | but it is 0140 so sleep first |
| 09:45 | < catalyst_> | yes DX9 is definitely retro at this point :) |
| 09:45 | < catalyst_> | since DX11 is the baseline right new |
| 09:45 | < catalyst_> | now* |
| 09:50 | <&[R]> | Usn't DX12 a thing now? |
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| --- Log closed Tue Jun 30 11:00:15 2020 |
| --- Log opened Tue Jun 30 11:01:00 2020 |
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| 13:26 | <~Vornicus> | sigh |
| 13:27 | <~Vornicus> | shaders don't use the data you "send" them if you comment out the line where you send them the data |
| 13:31 | <@TheWatcher> | how terribly inconsiderate of them |
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| 16:21 | <@gnolam> | It works! I can't believe it! And they said imitation data wasn't good enough... |
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| 17:06 | < ErikMesoy> | I think this is one of the famous '10 years experience with 5 year old tool' jobs in the wild: https://careers.ibm.com/ShowJob/Id/939532/Cloud-Native-Infrastructure-Engineer-Architect/ wants 12 years of experience with Kubernetes administration. |
| 17:08 | <@TheWatcher> | Awesome |
| 17:12 | <@abudhabi> | Maybe they want one of the original devs who did two full-time jobs for the six years the system has been out. :V |
| 17:18 | < Emmy> | I dunno, it seems like a good idea to separates the wannabes from actual pro's who realize that "You idiots, the thing hasn't existed that long in the first place" |
| 17:18 | < Emmy> | *pros |
| 17:25 | <@TheWatcher> | I think you ascribe too much competence to HR drones |
| 17:26 | < Emmy> | Admittedly, i have had direct messaged 'job offers' on linked in for positions when one look at my profile would have told the recruiter i'm definitely unqualified for them. |
| 17:26 | < Emmy> | I mean, i appreciate the confidence in me, but still :P |
| 17:28 | <@abudhabi> | OK, so how do I make this public key auth work? I've got this machine, and a remote machine (I can nomachine in there no probs), both are Linux and even the same distro (Mint). I want to be able to a) SSH in without giving the remote machine password, b) be able to the same pair with nomachine for logging in. I expect that a) and b) will work if either of them works. |
| 17:28 | <@abudhabi> | I tried following https://kb.iu.edu/d/aews but got nowhere. |
| 17:32 | <@abudhabi> | I suspect I'm messing up something basic. |
| 17:34 | <@abudhabi> | If I understand this right, the procedure is to generate a key (which has private and public files), transmit the public file to the remote host, and add the contents of the public file to the remote host's authorised_hosts file on a newline. |
| 17:35 | <&[R]> | abudhabi: on client, run two commands: `ssh-keygen`, followed by `ssh-copy-id $user@$host` |
| 17:36 | <&[R]> | Then you're all done, next time you do `ssh $user@$host` it will use your ssh key |
| 17:36 | <@abudhabi> | Client is the local machine? |
| 17:37 | <&[R]> | Client is the machine you're calling the `ssh` program from |
| 17:37 | <@abudhabi> | Yes. |
| 17:40 | <@abudhabi> | Right, thanks, that took care of a). My hypothesis was incorrect. SSH now works automagically, but nomachine fails. |
| 17:41 | <@abudhabi> | I'll go look into that. |
| 17:43 | <@abudhabi> | Out of curiosity, why doesn't this need to be carried out on both ends? |
| 17:43 | <@abudhabi> | I mean, don't you need to exchange public keys, not just transmit one, to talk? |
| 17:44 | <&[R]> | When you connected to the server you got that big scary message right? |
| 17:44 | <&[R]> | That's the server sending you it's public key |
| 17:45 | <&[R]> | It actually does that every connection, but after you whitelist the key's hash it stops giving you that scary message |
| 17:46 | <@abudhabi> | Ah, so that's what that means. |
| 17:47 | <@abudhabi> | Right. It all works now. Thank you. |
| 17:47 | <@abudhabi> | I'm going to expand my file on this topic in the "magical rituals" folder. |
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| 17:55 | <@abudhabi> | Hmm. For a DMZ box with a ddns domain attached to it, what's adequate SSH security? Fail2ban plus non-standard port? |
| 18:02 | <&[R]> | PUbkey-only auth, limited ciphers |
| 18:03 | <&[R]> | Mine was actually setup to only allow signed keys |
| 18:03 | <&[R]> | Which required a bit of work |
| 18:03 | <&[R]> | Also only users in certain groups were accepted |
| 18:03 | <@abudhabi> | What's limited ciphers? |
| 18:04 | <&[R]> | ssh by default accepts a bazillion ciphers, you can configure it to only accept strong ones |
| 18:06 | <&[R]> | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/333728/ssh-how-to-disable-weak-ciphers |
| 18:12 | <@TheWatcher> | abudhabi: when you run "ssh-copy-id" what that's doing is adding your local id_rsa.pub to the end of the ~/.ssh/authorized_keys file on the remote |
| 18:14 | <@abudhabi> | I see. |
| 18:18 | < ErikMesoy> | Emmy: I also think you ascribe too much competence to HR drones. I don't even think that sounds like a good idea; how would that "separate" wannabes from pros? |
| 18:19 | < ErikMesoy> | I figure you'd get some wannabes turning away because they're "underqualified" (have only X years), some wannabes trying anyway because hey job requirements are always inflated right, some pros turning away because it's nonsense, some pros applying because hey job requirements are always inflated right. |
| 18:22 | < ErikMesoy> | Some possibilities I'd guess at: 1) there's an intermediate corporate layer which habitually inflates requirements, 2) lazy copy-paste of some other 12-year requirement from old tool to new tool, 3) visa scam to get cheap indian labor by pretending it was "impossible" to find qualified locals. |
| 18:23 | < ErikMesoy> | 3b) nepotism scam to hire a friend of the recruiter by pretending it was "impossible" to find qualified anyone, might as well try this guy I know? |
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| 19:43 | <&[R]> | Generally it's the hiring manager that writes the requirements |
| 19:43 | <&[R]> | Not HR |
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| 20:32 | < Mahal> | [R]: no, it's often HR that get involved and completely fuck up the requirements of the position |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jul 01 00:00:56 2020 |