| --- Log opened Wed Apr 01 00:00:55 2020 |
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| 00:11 | <&Reiver> | Anyone here know how to faff about with aspx? |
| 00:11 | | * Reiver seems to recall Mahal... might have... once |
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| 00:51 | <@JustBob> | https://compedu.stanford.edu/codeinplace/announcement/ |
| 00:51 | <@JustBob> | Stanford's free introductory programming course, by the way. |
| 00:55 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh, Arrghonaut is a nice name |
| 00:56 | <@celticminstrel> | Wonder if Derakon noticed that a perfect gun divides by zero… |
| 00:57 | <&Derakon> | I did, yes, which is why the default cap is 1e12, not infinity. |
| 00:57 | <@celticminstrel> | I should try out love2d again, it might work for porting my ancient GameMaker games… |
| 00:58 | <@celticminstrel> | Mind you, there's not really anything super spectacular about them, but… |
| 00:58 | <@celticminstrel> | I'd still like to have them as examples of "yes I did this a long time ago". |
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| 06:26 | <&[R]> | Man, testing something that consumes git commits sucks when you run out of small commits to make |
| 06:26 | <&[R]> | Time to make a testing repo |
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| 13:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Uuugh, why can't autoconf parallelise? |
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| 16:08 | | * Vornicus gives McM his realization from yesterday: the 38-column mode is there to make smooth horizontal scrolling possible. |
| 16:13 | <&McMartin> | Correct! |
| 16:13 | <&McMartin> | Likewise the 24-row mode. |
| 16:14 | <&McMartin> | (This is explicit in the PRG.) |
| 16:20 | <~Vornicus> | I remember always seeing games do that and thinking that it was super rude~ |
| 16:21 | <&McMartin> | It's really not quite enough. |
| 16:22 | <&McMartin> | I haven't formally done the tolerance math on it, but it takes more than a frame to rewrite the color RAM and the color RAM cannot be double-buffered. |
| 16:22 | <&McMartin> | To get smooth scrolling you need to time the color rewrite so that you're just *behind* the beam and finish before it catches back up to you. |
| 16:23 | <~Vornicus> | dang |
| 16:26 | <&McMartin> | One strong advantage the NES has over the C64 is that the default VRAM has two *complete* screens and some panning hardware to shift between them |
| 16:26 | <&McMartin> | (One strong disadvantage is that the "pipe" to VRAM can only be safely accessed during VBLANK) |
| 16:36 | <@TheWatcher> | It really is nuts some of the things that you had to do in old hardware |
| 16:44 | <&McMartin> | The hardware you need to work around the "can only safely access VRAM sometimes" is really expensive. Even CGA didn't have it (hence why it was associated with 'snow' during animations), and I don't remember if even EGA did. |
| 16:45 | <&McMartin> | What you really need is a bus arbitrator |
| 16:45 | <&McMartin> | What the Commodore, Atari, and Sinclair machines I've looked at did was implement a discrete-logic scheme for sharing the bus between CPU and graphics |
| 16:46 | <&McMartin> | With the C= and Atari ones being programmable, and the Atari ones being *intentionally* programmable >_> |
| 16:46 | <&McMartin> | This is why "adjust vertical fine scroll" is register on the C64 that rips open a portal to the netherworld |
| 16:48 | <&McMartin> | *is the register |
| 16:50 | <&McMartin> | TheWatcher: Also, you can just accept extra restrictions to make things free |
| 16:50 | <&McMartin> | You can make the background monochrome and now you have up to octuple-buffering |
| 16:51 | <&McMartin> | YOu can notice that you're only scrolling horizontally or vertically and make the color be fixed by rows or columns, again, not needing to update color RAM except on screen switch |
| 16:51 | <&McMartin> | You can Just Do Flipscrolling a la Jet Set Willy (a popular choice~) |
| 16:52 | <@Alek> | what's flipscrolling? |
| 16:52 | <&McMartin> | Where you don't scroll at all and flip between complete screens. |
| 16:53 | <&McMartin> | Think VVVVVV or Knytt Stories. |
| 16:53 | <&McMartin> | Or Zelda 1, ignoring the screen transitions. |
| 16:53 | | * Alek shrugs. |
| 16:55 | | * Alek remembers various games where you could move fast enough that it would regularly take several seconds for the screen to scroll to catch up. |
| 16:55 | <@Alek> | on various machines. |
| 16:59 | <&McMartin> | Yes. |
| 16:59 | <&McMartin> | That's happening at the game logic level, not the HW level. |
| 17:00 | <&McMartin> | In particular, one of those games is Sonic 3, and the Genesis has a screen larger than the display in all dimensions, with a window you move around in it to effect scrolling... |
| 17:00 | <&McMartin> | ... but not large enough to hold entire levels. |
| 17:01 | <&McMartin> | IIRC, the default was a 64x32 screen, of which 40x28 were diplayed. |
| 17:03 | <&McMartin> | I remember boosting it to 64x64 so I *could* use VRAM as my entire simulation grid when I did the CCA on the Genesis. |
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| 21:54 | <@JustBob> | So |
| 21:55 | <@JustBob> | I'm doing the stanford prework for the CS106A course. |
| 21:55 | <@JustBob> | Because it seems interesting |
| 21:55 | <@JustBob> | And one of the exercises is blatantly an attempt to get you to do while loops |
| 21:55 | <@JustBob> | Is it wrong of me to just go ahead and hardcode a non-looped version that does the same thing? :p |
| 21:57 | <@Alek> | as long as you also do the loop, no. :P |
| 21:58 | <~Vornicus> | may I ask, what is the exercise |
| 21:59 | <@JustBob> | Python, programming with Karel. |
| 22:00 | <@JustBob> | Move Karel two blocks, pick up ten blocks, move Karel two corners, pick up ten blocks, move Karel two corners, pick up ten blocks. |
| 22:00 | <@JustBob> | Obvs. a exercise in looping. |
| 22:00 | <&McMartin> | You're being asked to demonstrate that you know you circuit elements. |
| 22:00 | <&McMartin> | *the circuit elements |
| 22:01 | <@JustBob> | I brute forced it instead with many lines of pick_beeper() instead of while beepers_present() pick_beeper() |
| 22:01 | <@JustBob> | Because... It doesn't say I can't. :p |
| 22:03 | <&McMartin> | Python loops are slightly more restricted than the freer structure afforded by, say, Visual Basic, so you will want to make sure that you can make them happen. |
| 22:03 | <&McMartin> | And in particular, it doesn't have DO-UNTIL |
| 22:04 | <@JustBob> | Hrm |
| 22:04 | <@JustBob> | What's the conceptual difference between 'DO-UNTIL' and 'WHILE'? |
| 22:04 | <&McMartin> | Two differences, one dumb, one fun |
| 22:04 | <@JustBob> | I've always read them as pretty much the same thing with different syntaxes. |
| 22:04 | <&McMartin> | The dumb one: until loops while the condition is false. |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | The real one: The minimum number of times a while loop runs is zero; the minimum number of times a do-while or repeat-until loop runs is one. |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | The question is whether the test is at the beginning or the end. |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | But either can be faked with the other, as long as the break keyword is available (and it is). |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | You make the loop infinite and do the test by hand at the appropriate point, with a break at th eend. |
| 22:05 | <@JustBob> | Ah, I see. |
| 22:07 | <@JustBob> | Though I suppose I should go back and do the exercises correctly. |
| 22:07 | <@JustBob> | Since I get the feeling that they're going to be graded and I shouldn't be too snarky in my course application. :p |
| 22:08 | <~Vornicus> | probably |
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| 22:21 | <@JustBob> | Ugh |
| 22:21 | <@JustBob> | I suppose I should also go back through and anal-retentively comment on this entire thing, too. |
| 22:32 | < Emmy> | of course you should. any person who does not should be anally retained instead >:P |
| 22:44 | <&McMartin> | Don't tempt him |
| 22:44 | <&McMartin> | Bob is one of those i += 1; // increment i |
| 22:44 | <&McMartin> | bastards when provoked |
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| 23:12 | <@JustBob> | McM has seen some of my previous code. |
| 23:12 | <@JustBob> | Where the comments were over 50x the length of the actual code. |
| 23:16 | <@JustBob> | def harvest_beepers(): |
| 23:16 | <@JustBob> | # This function picks beepers up |
| 23:16 | <@JustBob> | # while there are beepers present |
| 23:16 | <@JustBob> | # to be picked up. |
| 23:16 | <@JustBob> | while beepers_present(): |
| 23:16 | <@JustBob> | pick_beeper()+ |
| 23:16 | <@JustBob> | Err |
| 23:16 | <@JustBob> | Ignoring that random + at the end |
| 23:16 | <@JustBob> | But that is typical of my comments, yes. :p |
| 23:32 | < Emmy> | Good. i think i'd like you. :P |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 02 00:00:56 2020 |