| --- Log opened Tue Mar 03 00:00:49 2020 |
| 00:17 | | himi [sjjf@Nightstar-1drtbs.anu.edu.au] has joined #code |
| 00:17 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 00:19 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 01:22 | | iospace is now known as iospace_ |
| 01:22 | | iospace_ is now known as iospace |
| 01:29 | | macdjord [macdjord@Nightstar-rslo4b.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #code |
| 01:29 | | mode/#code [+o macdjord] by ChanServ |
| 01:31 | | macdjord|slep [macdjord@Nightstar-rslo4b.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:14 | | SmithKurosaki [uid215460@Nightstar-a0t.9ff.184.192.IP] has quit [[NS] Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] |
| 02:26 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-42s.jso.104.208.IP] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 02:53 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-n9dsjl.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:54 | | Degi [Degi@Nightstar-b6qvc9.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #code |
| 02:59 | | SmithKurosaki [uid215460@Nightstar-a0t.9ff.184.192.IP] has joined #code |
| 02:59 | | JustBob [justbob@Nightstar.Customer.Dissatisfaction.Administrator] has quit [[NS] Quit: This unit is entering a hibernation state.] |
| 03:14 | | JustBob [justbob@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 03:14 | | mode/#code [+o JustBob] by ChanServ |
| 03:38 | | JustBob [justbob@Nightstar.Customer.Dissatisfaction.Administrator] has quit [[NS] Quit: This unit is entering a hibernation state.] |
| 03:39 | <&McMartin> | I have a question for those of you who still labor in the mines of spreadsheets, databases, and product-specific scripting languages |
| 03:40 | <&McMartin> | Are the <> or >< operators still used for "does not equal"? |
| 03:42 | <@Reiv> | <> yes |
| 03:42 | <@Reiv> | != also acceptable but frankly less common |
| 04:04 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't think I've ever seen >< as an operator |
| 04:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Personally I feel that <> and != mean two different things. |
| 04:05 | <@celticminstrel> | a <> b => (a < b || a > b) |
| 04:05 | <@celticminstrel> | a != b => !(a = b) |
| 04:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Which are the same only if the common type of a and b forms a total ordering. |
| 04:08 | <@celticminstrel> | Which, admittedly, is the case for most types you'd use them for… other than IEEE floats… |
| 04:21 | <@Alek> | for some reason I feel like <> should only be valid if a and b are the same type, but != can be valid even with different types. |
| 04:21 | <@Alek> | but eh, what do I know |
| 04:21 | <@celticminstrel> | I also feel like <> should only be valid if < and > are separately valid. |
| 04:21 | <@Alek> | ... how would that even happen? |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | Huh? |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | a <> b is valid only if a < b and a > b are valid. |
| 04:22 | <@Alek> | yeah, how would that happen? |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't understand the question. |
| 04:22 | <@Alek> | if a < b, how can a > b? |
| 04:23 | <@celticminstrel> | The point is it's a valid expression, not necessarily a true expression. |
| 04:23 | <@celticminstrel> | If a and b are booleans (to give a simple example), then it's not valid. |
| 04:23 | <@Alek> | but then a <> b would never evaluate? |
| 04:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Uhh… how so? |
| 04:24 | <@Alek> | we're probably thinking of different things, but I literally can't think of any case where a < b and a > b can both be true. |
| 04:25 | <@celticminstrel> | I didn't say they'd both be true. I said they'd both be valid. |
| 04:25 | <@Alek> | oh wait, I get it now. |
| 04:25 | <@celticminstrel> | :) |
| 04:26 | <@Alek> | thing is, for booleans, in at least some languages, false is equivalent to 0 and true to 1, so it'd still be valid. |
| 04:26 | <@celticminstrel> | It's not valid for booleans. If a language makes it valid for booleans, then they're not real booleans (or something). |
| 04:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Still, it's also not valid for vectors, or matrices, or lists. |
| 04:27 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, wait, it could be valid for lists, maybe… |
| 04:27 | <&McMartin> | My experience here is that <> only exists in 80s BASICs. |
| 04:27 | <&McMartin> | Where it works on numbers and strings, as these are the only meaningful data types~ |
| 04:27 | <@Alek> | having played around with my TRS-80's BASIC way back when, I definitely don't remember <> there, but that might be because of my memory. *shrugs* |
| 04:28 | <&McMartin> | You have indeed misremembered, if TRS-80 BASIC was Microsoft-descended. |
| 04:28 | <&McMartin> | C64 and Applesoft BASICs both did this, and while they were not MS-descended, Atari and Sinclair BASICs did too. |
| 04:29 | <@Alek> | two different DOS variants (NEWDOS and TRSDOS) but I only remember one BASIC variant that I can't recall the name of - I wanna say QBASIC but I feel like that was maybe on MS-DOS too...? |
| 04:30 | <&McMartin> | There was definitely a QBASIC on MS-DOS |
| 04:30 | <&McMartin> | If you also remember GORILLAS.BAS, then it was almost certainly the MS-DOS one. |
| 04:30 | <@Alek> | oh no the TRS-80 was too puny for GORILLAS.BAS I'm pretty sure. :P |
| 04:30 | <@celticminstrel> | I probably have a QBASIC program sitting around somewhere that just draws circles forever. |
| 04:31 | <@Alek> | the snowflake screensaver I made felt like the limit of its power. :P |
| 04:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Randomly-sized circles in random colours. |
| 04:31 | <@celticminstrel> | I didn't write it FTR. |
| 04:31 | <&McMartin> | Oh yes, GORILLAS.BAS was MS-DOS only, but also QBASIC-only. |
| 04:31 | <@Alek> | randomly whiting out character squares on the screen until all were white, then randomly unwhiting until all black, repeat until interrupt. |
| 04:32 | <@celticminstrel> | Or did it draw when you click maybe? I honestly don't remember. |
| 04:32 | <&McMartin> | Alek: I have not worked at all with the TRS-80 system, but my memory is that you could get some mileage out of character graphics |
| 04:32 | <&McMartin> | Pretty sure it could run a creditable clone of Temple of Apshai, though maybe not in BASIC. |
| 04:32 | | JustBob [justbob@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 04:32 | | mode/#code [+o JustBob] by ChanServ |
| 04:33 | <@Alek> | the crude ASCII blocks and maybe lines were the limit, I think. I misdoubt it even had the hatchmarks. |
| 04:34 | | JustBob [justbob@Nightstar.Customer.Dissatisfaction.Administrator] has quit [[NS] Quit: This unit is entering a hibernation state.] |
| 04:34 | <&McMartin> | That's enough for ToA :) |
| 04:34 | <&McMartin> | Oh hey, here are some properly rocked semigraphics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIUxmqe3jA4 |
| 04:35 | <@Alek> | ok, that's neat, and the TRaSh-80 just might have been able to handle that speed. :P |
| 04:36 | <@Alek> | not in BASIC, of course. <_< |
| 04:36 | <@Alek> | good night |
| 04:38 | | JustBob [justbob@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 04:38 | | mode/#code [+o JustBob] by ChanServ |
| --- Log closed Tue Mar 03 04:40:13 2020 |
| --- Log opened Tue Mar 03 04:40:19 2020 |
| 04:40 | | TheWatcher [chris@GlobalOperator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 04:40 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 32 nicks [23 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 9 normal] |
| 04:40 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher] by ChanServ |
| 04:40 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 15 secs |
| 05:03 | <&McMartin> | You guys are never going to believe this, but taking a code analysis for one language and then randomly crowbarring it into another one without doing much work to fit it to the new semantics often introduces subtle bugs |
| 05:14 | | SmithKurosaki [uid215460@Nightstar-a0t.9ff.184.192.IP] has quit [[NS] Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] |
| 05:59 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-80avij.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 06:54 | | himi [sjjf@Nightstar-1drtbs.anu.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:56 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-v6lb30.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 07:01 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-v6lb30.cable.virginm.net] has joined #code |
| 07:33 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-v6lb30.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 07:41 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-v6lb30.cable.virginm.net] has joined #code |
| 07:57 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-v6lb30.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:00 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-ffa0ac.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 08:06 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 08:11 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-eubaqc.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client exited] |
| 08:12 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-ffa0ac.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:12 | | Kimo|autojoin [Kindamoody@Nightstar-eubaqc.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 08:12 | | mode/#code [+o Kimo|autojoin] by ChanServ |
| 08:16 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-lblc3m.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 08:40 | | Reiv [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-ih0uis.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] |
| 08:53 | | himi [sjjf@Nightstar-v37cpe.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 08:53 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 09:06 | | Vornicus [Vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 09:06 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 09:59 | | Kimo|autojoin is now known as Kindamoody |
| 10:12 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-42s.jso.104.208.IP] has joined #code |
| 10:12 | | mode/#code [+ao VirusJTG VirusJTG] by ChanServ |
| 10:44 | < ErikMesoy> | The coworker learning Python here keeps vehemently expressing the opinion that this language was so very clearly designed by someone sick and tired of typing things out, so they put all their shorthand and macros into the language. :-D While not going quite as far as Perl. |
| 10:58 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-eubaqc.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 11:51 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-eubaqc.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 11:51 | | mode/#code [+o Kindamoody] by ChanServ |
| 11:55 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-eubaqc.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 11:58 | < catalyst> | Sounds about right |
| 12:05 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-eubaqc.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 12:05 | | mode/#code [+o Kindamoody] by ChanServ |
| 13:26 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-80avij.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code |
| 13:26 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 13:30 | <&[R]> | https://termbin.com/g3rt <-- TIL how to use pv to provide a progress bar for more generic things |
| 13:33 | | celticminstrel is now known as celmin|Away |
| 13:42 | | VirusJTG_ [VirusJTG@Nightstar-42s.jso.104.208.IP] has joined #code |
| 13:44 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-42s.jso.104.208.IP] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 13:59 | | JustBob [justbob@Nightstar.Customer.Dissatisfaction.Administrator] has quit [[NS] Quit: This unit is entering a hibernation state.] |
| 14:42 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-lblc3m.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:46 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-8eut3n.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 15:26 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 17:10 | | Emmy [Emmy@Nightstar-9p7hb1.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #code |
| 17:30 | <~Vornicus> | McM: Excel uses <> |
| 17:36 | <~Vornicus> | https://imgur.com/WdA3a3S when I try to use != |
| 17:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | `pv` is great, yeah. |
| 17:49 | < Emmy> | yes, <> is 'is not' in Office parlance |
| 17:55 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:35 | < Kizor> | ... |
| 18:35 | < Kizor> | What does "!=" mean in Office parlance? |
| 18:50 | <@abudhabi_> | Syntax error. |
| 18:58 | < Emmy> | yes. |
| 19:30 | | Reiv [NSkiwiirc@Nightstar-ih0uis.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 19:30 | | mode/#code [+o Reiv] by ChanServ |
| 21:11 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-8eut3n.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:27 | | catalyst [yaaic@Nightstar-l9hrr9.dab.02.net] has joined #code |
| 22:30 | | himi [sjjf@Nightstar-v37cpe.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:21 | | Emmy [Emmy@Nightstar-9p7hb1.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| --- Log closed Wed Mar 04 00:00:50 2020 |