| --- Log opened Sat Oct 26 00:00:53 2019 |
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| 01:52 | | celmin|away is now known as celticminstrel |
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| 04:50 | <&Derakon> | Ha, this is nice to see: https://elm-lang.org/news/the-syntax-cliff |
| 04:50 | <&Derakon> | Really detailed and helpful compiler error messages, to help newbies get over the cliff of figuring out basic syntax. |
| 04:52 | <&McMartin> | Rust has been pushing that as well, and has for some time. It has the head-start advantage that it is new and weird and therefore syntax errors or borrow-check failures are the fault of the language, and clearly not the developers |
| 04:53 | <&McMartin> | I considered putting a tilde at the end of that, but decided against it; that almost certainly *is* why the Rust team has had to prioritize this |
| 04:56 | <&Derakon> | "As much as possible, do not allow the coder to make blatant errors". |
| 04:56 | <&Derakon> | Is a big reason why I'm usually a fan of Go's ludicrously strict typing system too. |
| 04:57 | <&Derakon> | (usually because of the lack of generics, mostly) |
| 05:00 | <&Derakon> | "... language designers never really hear about this problem. I only understood its magnitude once elm/error-message-catalog got going. That repo solicits confusing error messages in hopes of finding ways to improve." |
| 05:00 | <&Derakon> | Goddamn, everyone should be doing this. |
| 05:09 | <&McMartin> | Go annoys me for the blatant errors it continues to allow and the Completely Not Errors that it ruthlessly forbids~ |
| 05:23 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:55 | <&Reiver> | Derakon[AFK]: Syntax cliffs have put me off Python so many times I'm not sure I plan to ever try again |
| 05:55 | <&Reiver> | So yes, there is certainly merit to the complaint |
| 06:05 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-ocfc15.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 06:06 | < Pinkhair> | Hrm. That article seems to have a vital flaw in that all the examples it gives are ones where the compiler seems to actually have a decent idea abourt what the code should have. |
| 06:09 | < Pinkhair> | I could see error messages in that style go beyond confusing into infuriating in cases where the compiler actually has the entirely wrong idea about what is needed, and the lack of easily searchable/post-on-forumable error codes will absolutely never be a problem. |
| 06:11 | < Pinkhair> | I certainly like the idea of verbose, somewhat descriptive error messages but... |
| 06:43 | | Vorntastic [uid293981@Nightstar-2dc.p8m.184.192.IP] has joined #code |
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| 07:18 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 07:36 | < Yossarian> | A very early (0226 EST) "morning", what's happenin? |
| 07:54 | <&jeroud> | <& McMartin> Go annoys me for the blatant errors it continues to allow and the Completely Not Errors that it ruthlessly forbids~ |
| 07:55 | <&jeroud> | So very much this. |
| 07:56 | <&jeroud> | It's not just that it's a massive pain to use, it's that the massive pain buys very little of value. |
| 07:57 | <&jeroud> | Whereas Rust, which is also a massive pain to use, buys all the value in the world with its pain. |
| 07:57 | <&jeroud> | (Also, the Rust community goes out of its way to reduce pain where possible.) |
| 11:17 | | Emmy [Emmy@Nightstar-9p7hb1.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #code |
| 12:06 | <~Vorntastic> | Argh stop it brain do not design ranging scan patterns you have way more important programming work to do |
| 12:17 | <~Vorntastic> | (that said this should look super swank so maybe I will make it if it doesn't take too much time) |
| 12:18 | < Emmy> | lol. i know the feeling. |
| 12:18 | < Emmy> | always dreaming up new stuff to make that i do not have the time, skill or means to ::( |
| 12:23 | | * Emmy notes to self: next time you close your laptop, make sure the RDP session to your desktop has been closed |
| 12:27 | <~Vorntastic> | ... Wonder how I'd get the order right in sensible time. |
| 12:36 | <~Vorntastic> | Heapq! Okay all is well |
| 13:10 | < Yossarian> | https://i.redd.it/8q9dy3hrf5y01.jpg battle stations! |
| 13:10 | < Yossarian> | those look like two curved 25" or 27" monitors ontop of one another |
| 13:11 | < Yossarian> | with the one on the side in portrait |
| 13:12 | <~Vorntastic> | Good Lord |
| 13:24 | <&[R]> | How does one keep one's desk that clean? D: |
| 13:27 | < Yossarian> | I dunno, that's a helluva lot of screen real estate though! |
| 13:29 | <~Vorntastic> | Dammit, counterexample |
| 13:31 | <~Vorntastic> | There are irregular tessellations where it is not true that, given a point in one of the cells, every other cell has an adjacent cell C whose centroid is closer to the starting point than C's. In fact it is easy to make a setup where a point in one cell is closer to a foreign cell's centroid than to its own |
| 13:43 | <~Vorntastic> | (regular hexagon + regular triangle; any point more than 2/3 of the way from the center of the hexagon to the shared side is closer to the triangle's center than the hexagon's) |
| 14:10 | <~Vorntastic> | I put the c in the wrong place. The joys of editing on mobile |
| 14:25 | <@sshine> | woot, a 4th person submitted a PR to my repo during Hacktoberfest. |
| 14:25 | <@sshine> | I know there's no special award for that, but this has been my game so far. :P |
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| 15:24 | <~Vornicus> | it *does* work with voronoi centers, but not all irregular tesselations are valid voronoi diagrams |
| 15:30 | <~Vornicus> | (specifically, a regular hexagon surrounded by equilateral triangles cannot be part of a voronoi diagram, because the only valid voronoi center for the ehxagon puts the centers of the triangles exactly on the edges, which means coincidental voronoi centers) |
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| 15:53 | < Yossarian> | Vorntastic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors |
| 15:53 | < Yossarian> | b i g s c r e e n s |
| 15:54 | < Yossarian> | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/IBM_T221.jpg |
| 15:55 | < Yossarian> | refresh rate at max resolution is a meager 41hz, so no CS:GO for you |
| 15:56 | <@TheWatcher> | good gods, that'd be painful |
| 15:58 | < Yossarian> | some people, not sure how nerdy the natives are here, but some are fans of Sony's GDM-FW900 and the rebadges. |
| 15:59 | < Yossarian> | It's a huge CRT, 2304x1440 @ 80hz, 160hz if you cut the resolution in half. |
| 15:59 | < Yossarian> | but you know what I don't miss? lugging around my piece of crap 19" CRT from LAN party to LAN party... not that we have LAN parties anymore... :/ |
| 16:01 | < Yossarian> | But some people go gaga for the Sony FW900 CRT and they take it to repair shops and have it color calibrated... I mean, 16:10 is nice |
| 16:01 | < Yossarian> | John Carmack supposedly used a bizzaro wunderCRT when coding the original Quake, which is why it was probably so damned good. |
| 16:03 | < Yossarian> | Silicon Graphics/Integraph InterView 28hd96 (28", 1920 x 1080, 99.5lbs or 45kg) |
| 16:04 | < Yossarian> | typical power consumption of... 180w! |
| 16:31 | | * TheWatcher fingertappity |
| 16:31 | <@TheWatcher> | to given/when or not, hrm. |
| 16:38 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 16:44 | < Yossarian> | Does anyone have experience with Merkury / Geeni IoT or smart devices? |
| 16:45 | < Yossarian> | I found a webcam on the side of the road but it wants me to use android to get it up |
| 16:47 | < Yossarian> | i've got no idea how this damned thing works |
| --- Log closed Sat Oct 26 16:56:02 2019 |
| --- Log opened Sat Oct 26 16:56:11 2019 |
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| 17:04 | <@celticminstrel> | …since when did JavaScript have an import statement? o.O |
| 17:04 | <@celticminstrel> | (Reading that "syntax cliff" post from yesterday.) |
| 17:04 | <&[R]> | Not too long ago |
| 17:05 | <&[R]> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CommonJS |
| 17:06 | <&[R]> | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Statements/import |
| 17:11 | < Yossarian> | so apparently the USB port for this IoT webcam with two-way speaker connects to your 2.4GHz network and you have to... get the app from the android store and you can view it from your phone |
| 17:11 | < Yossarian> | you can't stream it as a UVC camera |
| 17:11 | < Yossarian> | and to get the feed working on PC, I have no clue |
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| 18:23 | <&[R]> | <Mateon1> `Please also check the log file at "/dev/null" for additional information.` |
| 18:24 | <&McMartin> | Look, it doesn't know what you did to configure this |
| 19:58 | <&[R]> | https://www.nccgroup.trust/us/about-us/newsroom-and-events/blog/2019/february/downgrade-attack-on-tls-1.3-and-vulnerabilities-in-major-tls-libraries/ |
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| 23:38 | <@sshine> | hmm, Git 2.16 started using 'less' by default on 'git branch'. looking up how to disable that, the StackOverflow answer taught me that I can actually export LESS='--no-init --quit-if-one-screen' as a general thing. hooray for learning stuff. |
| 23:38 | <@sshine> | I already had a very similar tweak done to 'ack' (the 'grep' alternative) with ~/.ackrc containing: |
| 23:38 | <@sshine> | --flush |
| 23:38 | <@sshine> | --pager |
| 23:38 | <@sshine> | less -R -F -X |
| 23:39 | <@sshine> | which does a similar thing: when I ack for stuff, if the total output is more than one screen, it pipes it into less (and preserves ANSI colors), and if it's just one screen, dumps it directly. |
| 23:40 | <@sshine> | which, huh... is exactly the same, -F = --quit-if-one-screen, and -X = --no-init. |
| 23:40 | <@sshine> | I guess I just hadn't thought that there were more situations where I might like this behavior. but 'git branch' is certainly one of them. I never have more than one screen of branches. |
| 23:42 | <@sshine> | do you guys have other examples from your own terminal use where you get annoyed at 'less' pagination, or where you think making it variable might be useful? |
| --- Log closed Sun Oct 27 00:00:06 2019 |