| --- Log opened Sat Jun 29 00:00:07 2019 |
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| 02:43 | <&Reiver> | For anyone who has even a passing interest in mechanical motion, I can /highly/ reccomend the puzzle game Engare. |
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| 09:31 | <@gnolam> | https://twitter.com/AustinJ/status/1144655793612107778 |
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| 10:52 | <~Vorntastic> | Oh. Duh, that annoying bit about fans, I can actually do it - by picking an extreme point |
| 11:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiver: ooo, that looks neat. |
| 11:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Vorntastic: it turns out that using lua, in addition to getting me coroutines, also gets me much better error messages~ |
| 13:03 | <&Reiver> | ToxicFrog: I'm really enjoying it! I've not gotten in very far, and a fair number of them are solvable if you understand the principles of mechanics (ie, rotational motion into pistons comes up a few times in the semi-tutorials), but gosh, it's a lovely thing. |
| 13:36 | <&Reiver> | ... huh. Okay, small update: The 'game' itself is very short, as puzzle games go |
| 13:36 | <&Reiver> | But once you have completed the puzzle games, it effectively opens up into a creative editor mode, which is frankly kind of wonderful. :) |
| 14:28 | <&jeroud> | I enjoyed the idea of Engare, but found the implementation (particularly the UI) problematic. That may only be the OSX port, though. |
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| 21:13 | <&[R]> | I have a friend who is trying to get back into the tech scene after a multi-year depression (he hasn't worked since 2011). He's asking me to look over his resume, but I don't really know what recruiters are looking for. If I invite him here, is someone able to actually give him some solid advice? |
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| 22:09 | < abudhabi> | [R]: Not sure how much resume-polishing is worth, really. |
| 22:09 | < abudhabi> | Word-of-mouth and recommendation seems to be where it's at. |
| 22:10 | <&[R]> | Yeah, unfortunately he's apparently in the middle of nowhere |
| 22:10 | < abudhabi> | But yeah, no harm in inviting in your friend. |
| 22:12 | < abudhabi> | I'm just, frankly, completely cynical about recruiting. |
| 22:13 | < abudhabi> | First tech job? I got it because a friend's father needed a computer guy to, basically, make sure his MAXIMUM OVERBUSINESS didn't suffer too much from printer and email problems and had a Wordpress website. |
| 22:13 | < abudhabi> | Second job? It was actually from regular CV spam I was doing. |
| 22:14 | < abudhabi> | My covering letter was basically 4chan-style greentext. |
| 22:14 | < abudhabi> | When the guy called me, I had no idea which company he was from, I spammed so many of them. |
| 22:16 | < abudhabi> | Third job I got via a recruiting agency, where I apparently made a good enough impression with the middlewoman to get me a short-term contract fast. |
| 22:17 | < abudhabi> | Then I've had like an almost two year break from tech, doing self-employed shit. |
| 22:19 | | * Vornicus would just like it to not take 6 months to make an irredeemably bad resume |
| 22:19 | < abudhabi> | While doing that self-employed shit, I did some business with a friend from grade school. This guy apparently pulled strings to get me on a contract doing development in a language I have touched once for a week since graduating. |
| 22:20 | < abudhabi> | He has a personal interest in making me succeed, too, which only increases his enthusiasm. |
| 22:20 | < abudhabi> | So in general I'm skeptical that resume quality means much. Just make it readable and not a waste of time. |
| 22:21 | < abudhabi> | Vornicus: Oh? |
| 22:22 | <~Vornicus> | It takes 6 months to write a resume, I show it to someone to help get it a little better, their advice (when it's not contradictory) is to throw it out and start over |
| 22:22 | <~Vornicus> | ANd I can't say they're *wrong*, shopping my resume around has gotten me exactly zero bites |
| 22:23 | < abudhabi> | I wonder if I still have the greentext application I sent... |
| 22:24 | < abudhabi> | Haha. I even wrote a madlibs engine in Java to make CV spamming easier. |
| 22:24 | <~Vornicus> | But explaining to people that their advice falls on ears that have heard everything they say *and the opposite* gets frustrating after a couple decades of not being able to get a job in the field I trained for |
| 22:25 | <@ErikMesoy> | I have the impression there is one social class/niche/thing for people where resumes actually work and do things and the content is important, and one social class for people where the main resume requirements are something like: be in right general field of study, be able to spell. |
| 22:25 | <@ErikMesoy> | People in the second class keep hearing from the first class and getting confused. |
| 22:26 | <&[R]> | That would actually make a ton of sense, yeah |
| 22:26 | < abudhabi> | ErikMesoy: Indeed, NAV sent me to a jobseeking course once. When I later showed the teacher what cover letter got me the job, she said it was the opposite she taught. |
| 22:27 | <~Vornicus> | So I'm told that I have to have a cover letter to get a job but that if I don't know the person who'll be reading the cover letter there's no point |
| 22:28 | <&[R]> | Cover letters are a bitch to write |
| 22:28 | <~Vornicus> | And I'm told that it has to be specifically, heavily tailored to the specific job but that I should use basically a form letter |
| 22:28 | <&[R]> | Actually, letters period |
| 22:29 | <~Vornicus> | I've gotten so much advice about resumes and cover letters that I could write two books full of advice and they would contradict each other in every detail except "put your name on it" and "spell correctly" |
| 22:29 | <&[R]> | I was told I should have at least one paragraph that is completely custom, the rest can be mostly form |
| 22:30 | <~Vornicus> | THe only conclusion I can come to here is that every peice of advice I've ever gotten is a goddamn lie and the correct way to get a job is Be A Sociopath |
| 22:30 | <&[R]> | There's also the fact that, ultimately, the means in which one gets approved for a deeper look-through on their resume is completely BS and arbitrary as it's done by many different humans with zero consistiency between them. |
| 22:31 | < abudhabi> | Ahahaha. Yes. I have the greentext. |
| 22:31 | <&[R]> | Some might have trainning that affects how they chose which ones to discard, some might have zero training and will fall for any of the shitty tricks people could use, some might just look through them while in a bad mood and that makes their choices even more random. |
| 22:33 | < abudhabi> | >Wants to work in a team, but at the same time can work alone |
| 22:33 | < abudhabi> | Yep. |
| 22:33 | <@ErikMesoy> | "We don't hire unlucky people." *randomly throws half of resumes in the bin* |
| 22:33 | < abudhabi> | >Curious |
| 22:33 | < abudhabi> | Yep. |
| 22:33 | < abudhabi> | >Java |
| 22:33 | < abudhabi> | Yep. |
| 22:33 | < abudhabi> | :D |
| 22:34 | <@ErikMesoy> | Really, the luck of getting into contact with Autists&Tardwranglers Incorporated, where I have been happily working for almost ten years now, was worth a lot more than all resume and application advice I ever got. |
| 22:35 | <~Vornicus> | meanwhile in my situation my job application skills are so utterly abysmal that I cannot take advantage of opportunities i do get |
| 22:35 | <&[R]> | Oh, and then there's the reviewers that are working off of completely BS information, and have to use that to sort through resumes. |
| 22:36 | <&[R]> | "Yeah, we need people with seven trillion years of experience in this internal tool that we haven't released to the public." |
| 22:36 | <@gnolam> | abudhabi: I have heard stories of people writing their own cover letter generators just to pass the keyword scans: you input the keywords they're looking for, and it spits out a cover letter to match them. |
| 22:36 | < abudhabi> | gnolam: I used templates with madlibs. |
| 22:37 | < abudhabi> | Usually with a copypaste of the advert's requirements, indicating that I fit each of these, skipping the ones I felt would be complete lies. |
| 22:37 | <@gnolam> | Heh. |
| 22:37 | <@ErikMesoy> | [R]: My wrangler has advised me that when a client wants several years of experience with Tool X that I don't have, I should spend a week practising with Tool X and then use the technically true but misleading phrase "Erik has several years of experience with X and related tools". |
| 22:38 | < abudhabi> | Ha. |
| 22:38 | <@gnolam> | But yeah, networking's where it's at. A frighteningly high percentage of tech jobs, at least around here, are based on personal recommendations. |
| 22:38 | <@gnolam> | s/jobs/hires |
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| 22:39 | < abudhabi> | Yep. The best I was able to say about my skills in the last contract was that my (other language) skills carry over well into (required language). |
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| 22:40 | < abudhabi> | But when one of your best employees is backing your case, that's a lot stronger. |
| 22:45 | | * Vornicus bonks his math code which is being terrible in unknown ways |
| 23:20 | <~Vornicus> | Okay. Reason it isn't working *appears* to be that it's creating a polygon that contains the universe when I've explicitly tried not to do that |
| 23:20 | <~Vornicus> | This is why the coincident points remover was blowing up: the two distant points are in fact the same point, so equality tests blew up on it |
| 23:21 | <~Vornicus> | So somewhere in the thing that decides whether to actually flop edges it's deciding that that's a good idea |
| 23:24 | <~Vornicus> | But how that's happening, I'm not sure |
| 23:31 | <~Vornicus> | ...should not be possible *anyway* |
| 23:32 | <~Vornicus> | And the fact that it's apparently creating this polygon means it's not doing it correctly, and I'm ending up in plsace I shouldn't |
| 23:37 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, looks like the pickups are wrong in correctEdge. THat doesn't help |
| 23:40 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 23:40 | <~Vornicus> | ...because I was indexing into the whole structure's edges table instead of the subtable I made in the function |
| 23:41 | <~Vornicus> | https://imgur.com/a/u4BIqv0 we're back in action. |
| --- Log closed Sun Jun 30 00:00:08 2019 |