| --- Log opened Wed Mar 13 00:00:04 2019 |
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| 07:16 | <&McMartin> | Success, of a sort. https://bumbershootsoft.wordpress.com/2019/03/13/mandala-initial-port-complete/ |
| 07:30 | < simon_> | cool. |
| 07:31 | <&McMartin> | The game rules degenerate into unplayability more or less instantly with two human players, so this program seems to *only* work if played against a suicidal AI. |
| 07:31 | <&McMartin> | So it turns out *all* the rules of checkers/draughts are important~ |
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| 08:51 | < simon_> | hmm, wat. |
| 08:52 | < simon_> | so our new iOS developer thinks that POST requests should have JSON bodies rather than URLencoded parameters. |
| 08:54 | <&McMartin> | That is a thing that it is possible to do in a standards-compliant way. |
| 08:54 | <&McMartin> | It is a thing I have myself perpetrated, when the posted body is a semistructured chunk of data rather than simply a wodge of text. |
| 08:55 | < simon_> | I just never thought about challenging the fact that GET and POST parameters are URL-encoded. |
| 08:56 | <~Vornicus> | I've interacted with both. Also ones with xml bodies |
| 08:56 | <&McMartin> | IIRC for POST in particular there is a specific header you have to set to aver that what you are sending is in fact URL-encoded and not some other mime type |
| 08:57 | <&McMartin> | IIRC nginx can be configured to do some automatic parsing of JSON bodies |
| 08:57 | < simon_> | is this a step in a good direction? |
| 08:57 | <&McMartin> | Anyway, it is *probably* not relevant that the dude is an iOS developer, though as an iOS developer myself I can aver that the NSURLSession class and related classes make it quite easy. |
| 08:57 | <~Vornicus> | I prefer json of the three |
| 08:57 | < simon_> | this guy comes in and has all these crazy ideas like our interfaces should be RESTful, and we should be using other status codes than 200, 301, 302 and 404. |
| 08:57 | <&McMartin> | But I've done it with unusual abuses of curl too |
| 08:58 | <&McMartin> | Properly deployed REST is fantastic, speaking as a client developer |
| 08:58 | <&McMartin> | Properly deployed it makes sessions unnecessary and lets you have stateless conversations that are extremely amenable to unit testing |
| 08:58 | <&McMartin> | Improperly deployed they are an excuse for server devs to goldbrick and try to devolve all work onto the dudes writing the protocol spec~ |
| 08:58 | < simon_> | whenever someone new starts, they always react controversially to the local insanity. it's like a breath of fresh air, and I want to cling onto it and use the momentum to change some of the things he sees that I've already accepted. |
| 08:59 | <&McMartin> | And like Vorn, I too prefer JSON to XML or URL encoding |
| 08:59 | <&McMartin> | But none of the three are strictly right or wrong |
| 08:59 | < simon_> | but then again, these hipster developers thinks we should put JSON in our coffee machines! |
| 08:59 | <~Vornicus> | the largest web thing I made also made use of 400 401 403 and 304, but not much beyond that |
| 08:59 | < simon_> | McMartin, right, OK. I suppose URL-encoding lets you post a regular HTML form to it. |
| 08:59 | <&McMartin> | An iOS dev is likely to prefer JSON for a lot of things, because iOS's core data structure libraries let you transparently serialize to and from JSON into core library collections |
| 09:00 | < simon_> | McMartin, but I suppose you could handle *either* URL-encoded or JSON-encoded as long as the JSON is flat. |
| 09:00 | <&McMartin> | A trick common in stuff like Python but ObjC compiles to machine code and gets to have it too |
| 09:00 | <&McMartin> | Yep |
| 09:00 | <&McMartin> | Now, if the thing you need to send *isn't* flat, that's when you want to consider XML or JSON over URL. |
| 09:00 | < simon_> | I'll see if our web framework supports that. |
| 09:01 | < simon_> | right.. |
| 09:01 | <&McMartin> | I know some do out of the box, but I'm not a server guy and only have vague understandings of it |
| 09:35 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 09:38 | <&[R]> | <Vornicus> I prefer json of the three <-- same |
| 09:39 | <@TheWatcher> | I'd tend to agree with your new iOS dev, but then I've been doing a lot of REST API stuff over the past couple of years, and the convention has pretty much come down on the side of sending JSON in POST and PUT in my experience |
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| 14:08 | < simon_> | turns out there's a security conflict with the entire rest of the website: our current web-framework can access query parameters with either $self->param('foo') or $self->every_param('foo'); we know for certain that $self->param('foo') is either a string or undef, and we know for certain that $self->every_param('foo') is a (possibly empty) array. this maps nicely to URL-encoded query parameters. |
| 14:10 | < simon_> | so the first incompatibility is that JSON can have nested types and are selected like '/foo' rather than 'foo'. but I could make some kind of backwards-compatible translation here to allow 'foo' to mean '/foo' in case of JSON. |
| 14:10 | < simon_> | as for lists, if $self->param('foo') can return JSON, we can't know that $self->param('foo') is either a string or undef, since it might be a list or an object (or a boolean or a number, but Perl cares very little for this distinction). |
| 14:11 | < simon_> | I could hack $self->param('foo') into meaning "the first element of the list '/foo'" and $self->every_param('foo') to mean "the entire list '/foo', if it's a list." |
| 14:12 | < simon_> | but I couldn't easily hack $self->param('foo') into meaning anything good if '/foo' is a hashmap/object. there's no generally useful way to express a hashmap/object as a scalar. |
| 14:13 | < simon_> | if old code does $self->param('foo') and something non-stringy/non-scalar comes out, I can't generally stick it into our ORM, since it is too magical. |
| 14:14 | < simon_> | so if I want a neat interface to access POST request parameters via JSON, it seems as if I'm forced to use a different interface. |
| 14:21 | < simon_> | </rant> |
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| 19:15 | <~Vornicus> | "You can have these snippet tutorial disks that are unlocked in sequence no matter what order you pick up the disks, so you'll always get the ones that introduce basic concepts before you get the ones that do kickflips down stairs onto the rake." |
| 19:16 | <~Vornicus> | (me, on a thing that could be done in a game focused on programming) |
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| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | Oh hey |
| 21:33 | <&McMartin> | icculus has been working on an actual SDL1->2 compat layer |
| 21:33 | <&McMartin> | https://www.patreon.com/posts/25321792 |
| 21:50 | <~Vornicus> | did he also write the Helping Friendly Book |
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| 22:50 | <&McMartin> | I do not believe so |
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| --- Log closed Thu Mar 14 00:00:06 2019 |