| --- Log opened Fri Feb 22 00:00:38 2019 |
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| 08:08 | <&[R]> | "Punk C is not compiled but interpreted. Punk C has no types declarations, does not enforce functions prototypes (wtf?) nor any of the notorious C nightmares. Think C without the problems." |
| 08:21 | < simon_> | I didn't know types were the nightmares in C. :-D |
| 08:21 | < simon_> | I thought void pointers were! |
| 08:24 | < simon_> | "Golf is kind of like dart, except the dartboard has been put on the ground, has had a hole drilled in its center and it only gives points if you hit center, the darts have been made rounder, and instead of throwing them, you hit them with clubs. Think dart without the pointy bits." |
| 08:25 | <&McMartin> | Punk C sounds suspiciously like B. |
| 08:26 | <&McMartin> | Which was a predecessor to C which was interpreted, whose only two types were "word" and "pointer to word", and didn't have function prototypes because C literally got function prototypes from C++ |
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| 09:25 | <&[R]> | More quotes from more insane people: "Library code is ugly because it cannot use global variables." |
| 09:25 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 09:25 | <@TheWatcher> | Death. |
| 09:26 | <&[R]> | Obviously they've never used C (where the standard library uses globals) |
| 09:30 | <@TheWatcher> | True. And the fact that one of the better known and arguably useful of them - errno - is one is a good indicator of their general approach to error handling |
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| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | My favorites are the people who think that statics aren't globals |
| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | But who, when reciting The Litany Of Hate Against Globals as required by the Invisible Masters, include the arguments against statics within it |
| 20:51 | <&[R]> | Statics on classes are slightly less evil, especially if they're private, since the domain of code they affect is explicitly clearer |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | Indeed, the problems with statics are a strict subset of the problems with globals and a nonstrict superset of the problems with singletons |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | And as a C developer, I do beseech you all |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | If you are going to write functions that rely on globals or even hidden file-level statics |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | Please provide alternative versions that take the relevant context in an opaque structure you provide elsewhere in the API, so that I might use your API in a multithreaded context. |
| 21:11 | | * McMartin looks at the search terms that led to Bumbershoot that weren't masked by Google et al, and the top two are questions he doesn't have answers for |
| 21:11 | <&McMartin> | "riscos opengl windowed" and "colorburst amplitude old new cga" |
| 21:11 | <&McMartin> | The latter at least I have an article that will link to the guy who knows what's up, but... |
| 21:27 | <&[R]> | http://aiju.de/up/fuckingwindows.png |
| 21:28 | <&McMartin> | Um |
| 21:28 | <&McMartin> | That's cheating and it's admitting it's cheating |
| 21:29 | <&McMartin> | Check out the error checking - what it does instead of printf |
| 21:29 | <&McMartin> | It does its own "pop up a window with a message and OK button and then quits" thing. |
| 21:30 | <&McMartin> | The WinMain() entry point of a graphical hello world application in Windows has two statements in it, one of which is MessageBox and one of which is return. :) |
| 21:30 | <&McMartin> | That's a mostly-complete application shell he's got there. |
| 21:30 | < ErikMesoy> | What is this, code for ants? |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | I can only make anything out because I've written similar code myself for both X11 and Windows. |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | I assert without providing much evidence that once you get an application that's doing "enough" X11 and Windows reach similar levels of complexity |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | And caveat that the similar level is "use a toolkit, you masochist" |
| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | (Notable exceptions include "all I'm doing is setting up a GLX or WGL or EGL or DirectX context", where your application may be very sophisticated indeed but the windowing system is pretty indifferent to it) |
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| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | (At that point handling input and throwing stuff at the main code will be pretty similar, but even then, seriously, consider letting SDL wrap that shit) |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | Also |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | Plan9 ships with a toolkit |
| 21:35 | | * McMartin golfclaps |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | Obviously shipping with a toolkit means that the programming experience for your OS will be wildly different for all others, because nobody will have a step 1 of "select and install a toolklit" |
| 21:36 | <&[R]> | TBH, their drawing API is "write bytes to a file in /dev/" |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | When you get right down to it, that is semantically equivalent to structured IPC :) |
| 21:39 | <&[R]> | Sure, between the kernel and the program |
| 21:40 | | * McMartin nods |
| 21:40 | <&McMartin> | That's something that's actually interesting about Windows at the ABI level |
| 21:40 | <&McMartin> | All its system calls look to the application binary exactly like calls into a DLL |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | But that dll is not libc :) |
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| --- Log closed Sat Feb 23 00:00:39 2019 |