| --- Log opened Sat Aug 11 00:00:13 2018 |
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| 00:52 | | * McMartin checks the TIOBE index for August |
| 00:54 | <&McMartin> | Asm back in the top 10, outperforming ObjC, Swift, and Go~ |
| 00:58 | <@celticminstrel> | TIOBE? |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ |
| 00:59 | <&[R]> | The ranking of most used languages |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | Or most aggressively part of the community, roughly |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | The long term trends are interesting |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | I must assume Asm's continued moderate relevance is because it's part of core curricula |
| 01:00 | <&[R]> | Still reminds me of Mr "Flash is going to replace C and C++" |
| 01:00 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 01:00 | <&McMartin> | Still, how often do you hear these days that C is dead |
| 01:00 | <&[R]> | Often enough |
| 01:01 | <&[R]> | It's like BSD |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | The gap between Java-and-C and everything else over the past 15 years is pretty damn drastic |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | Though I also like the very-long-term trends |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | In 1988 the Big Three were C/Lisp/Ada and that seems entirely plausible to me as someone who was ten years old at the time |
| 01:01 | <&[R]> | I don't think there's any usable OS kernel written in anything other than C |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, but how many people are actively writing OS kernels? |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | (see also: modern rankings for Ada, Erlang) |
| 01:02 | <&[R]> | Heh, 2005-2006 and 2012-2015 looks like Java was shitting the bed a little |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | ObjC gets a *massive* spike once iOS 2 catapults it into sudden relevance |
| 01:03 | <&[R]> | I like how constant SQL is |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | Oh |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | That's because they'd stopped tracking it for a bunch of years |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | That big flat line is "no data for this year" |
| 01:04 | <&[R]> | ... YTF the VB.NET climbing? |
| 01:04 | <&[R]> | Those poor bastards D: |
| 01:05 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 01:05 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 01:05 | <&McMartin> | THe other thing is that "needing training/help" is a big part of this |
| 01:05 | <&McMartin> | So I think one reason ObjC downspikes is that people stop caring about writing apps, for one |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | But for two, the rest work out that the way you learn ObjC is to first learn C and then study the ObjC extensions which are like three sheets of paper |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | C++ it ain't |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | So yeah 'halp must deal with VB.NET how do I anything' might boost that some |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | Also PHP >_< |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | I'm also a little unclear on that weird 2012-2015 period having C crash and recover too |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | Would not really mind Java/C/Python being the holy trinity truth be told |
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| 06:02 | < Zapy> | watch the live defcon show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-NgAB1RcPo | call in live at 315-505-4666 |
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| 19:53 | | * McMartin kicks off a Xenial-to-Bionic upgrade |
| 19:54 | <&McMartin> | Actually looking at package lists on distro upgrades is never good for one's blood pressure. >_< |
| 19:54 | <&[R]> | I remember kicking off a dist-upgrade overnight with Ubunutu |
| 19:54 | <&[R]> | Newer version included Postfix, which had an install script... that asked for user input. |
| 19:55 | <&[R]> | Synaptic dilligently waited for user input |
| 19:55 | <&[R]> | In its hidden terminal window |
| 19:55 | <&[R]> | All night. |
| 19:56 | <&[R]> | I was not impressed when I had to wait another hour or so for it to finish updating in the morning. |
| 19:57 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, which is why one *does* |
| 19:57 | <&McMartin> | And then one notices that, for instance, a package named "hardware abstraction layer" is being removed and not replaced |
| 19:57 | <&McMartin> | I'm sure that will be fine |
| 19:58 | <&[R]> | Ha |
| 19:58 | <&[R]> | Yeah, hald was replaced by udevd |
| 19:58 | <&McMartin> | Aha |
| 19:59 | <&McMartin> | I kind of figured it was WINE-related, given that there was also a bunch of "oh, these packages are gone now/we have new differently-named packages that do the same thing because this is a Debianoid and god forbid upgrades happen via the package upgrade mechanism - that's only for security backpatches" |
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| 20:00 | <&[R]> | Anything WINE-related will be 32bit stuff |
| 20:01 | <&McMartin> | I'm a little concerned that I seem to have accumulated something like three side-by-side revisions of gcc here. |
| 20:01 | <&[R]> | Weird |
| 20:04 | <&McMartin> | (I'm seeing g++4, g++5, and g++7 all being separately upgraded or installed) |
| 20:04 | <&McMartin> | (To be fair, gcc's... creative... approach to backcompat is a pretty strong argument for Debian's approach to not upgrading via upgrades) |
| 20:05 | <&[R]> | This creative approach being? |
| 20:05 | <&McMartin> | "gcc7 and gcc8 reject or generate incorrect code for a large number of programs that gcc5 and gcc6 accept" |
| 20:06 | <&[R]> | So the "standard linux" method of backwards compatability |
| 20:06 | <&McMartin> | Mostly based on some optimizations surrounding undefined behavior that most programmers over the past 50 years intentionally ignored |
| 20:06 | <&McMartin> | So yes |
| 20:06 | <&McMartin> | It's standard linux even beyond that |
| 20:06 | <&McMartin> | It does this, and then blames the end user for relying on buggy software |
| 20:07 | <&McMartin> | There have also been occasional adventures related to trying to build some older crossdev kits and then discovering to my considerable annoyance that gcc7 could not build gcc4 |
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| 21:45 | <&[R]> | I'm currently reading a script trying to figgure out how it works |
| 21:45 | <&[R]> | _wi_text() { |
| 21:45 | <&[R]> | eval "cat <<! |
| 21:45 | <&[R]> | $( (test ! -t 0 && cat; for a; do eval "$a"; done) | sed '/^[ ]/s/\([$`\\]\)/\\\1/g') |
| 21:45 | <&[R]> | ! |
| 21:45 | <&[R]> | " |
| 21:45 | <&[R]> | } |
| 21:45 | <&[R]> | You might have missed that second eval on your first reading. |
| 21:45 | <@Tamber> | Well, that certainly looks like someone's trying to be clever. |
| 21:46 | <&[R]> | The function I'm actually looking at eval's the return of that function |
| 21:51 | <&[R]> | ... can bash not put a heredoc into a variable? |
| 21:54 | <&[R]> | Okay, so... looks like all that function does is run the standard input and run it through that sed |
| 21:54 | <&[R]> | That [ ] is a space and a tab at the very least. |
| 21:57 | <&[R]> | Right, just a space and a tab |
| 21:58 | <&[R]> | Okay... so it runs the substitution of s/\([$`\\]\)/\\\1/g on any line that starts with a space or a tab? I've never seen a regex before a subsitution with sed |
| 22:01 | <&[R]> | ... and all that does is escape the `, $ and \ characters |
| 22:02 | <@Tamber> | Maybe that's trying to escape any escape to shell, or use of any variables? |
| 22:03 | <&[R]> | Yeah, the input is... kind of a list of triggers followed by shell commands |
| 22:04 | <@Tamber> | Aha |
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| --- Log closed Sun Aug 12 00:00:14 2018 |