| --- Log opened Sat Jun 16 00:00:08 2018 |
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| 01:08 | <@celticminstrel> | Kinda want to try Unity to see how it compares to Unreal, but I think that would require coming up with some sort of small game to create with it... |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | There's a stock tutorial for the Roll A Ball game that will let you mess with that. |
| 01:09 | <@celticminstrel> | That does seem like a good start (wait is that the same Roll a Ball game that had an SDL tutorial... o.o ) |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | (o.o if so; I never saw it before I saw that unity thing) |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | Though if so that would be an SDL tutorial that was leaning heavily on OpenGL, I'd imagine |
| 01:11 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't think so? I can't remember clearly though. |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | This particular Roll A Ball is Very 3D |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | My google searches are only turning up the Unity project |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | i experimented with Unity a bit because I was considering writing some Unity bindings for some other projects |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | I think overall it is in an anti-sweet-spot for the things I want to do. |
| 01:24 | <@celticminstrel> | I was fiddling with it in 2006 or 2005 IIRC. |
| 01:24 | <@celticminstrel> | Can't find the files on my hard drive, but I was using a school computer then so I wasn't really expecting to find them. |
| 01:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Wait maybe I found it? |
| 01:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah no that was something else from the same time period. |
| 01:27 | <@celticminstrel> | ... |
| 01:27 | <@celticminstrel> | Except it also includes a file called "tutorialgame.cpp"... |
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| 03:56 | | * celticminstrel wants to try building it and see if it actually works... |
| 04:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Running into the nightmare of SDL defining "main" to be SDL_main... |
| 04:00 | <&McMartin> | Ah yes. That was finally dropped in SDL2.0 |
| 04:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah I assume this won't build with SDL2. |
| 04:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Since they are not compatible and it predates SDL2. |
| 04:01 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't suppose there's a way to prevent it without editing the source. |
| 04:01 | <@celticminstrel> | Haha, -DSDL_main=main appears to work. |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | You're probably going to want to instead leave it as is but -lSDLmain as well as -lSDL |
| 04:02 | <@celticminstrel> | Though whether it really works I'm not sure, it won't run. |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | sdl-config --libs should give the list |
| 04:02 | <@celticminstrel> | I'll see if that works, was using -framework SDL but I might have a lib version too. |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | Oh, you're on Mac? |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | You need a special program stub in objc |
| 04:02 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah. |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | It's part of the source dmg |
| 04:02 | <@celticminstrel> | I think I have that somewhere around... |
| 04:04 | <@celticminstrel> | ... |
| 04:04 | <@celticminstrel> | I just found the UQM source on my computer. |
| 04:05 | <&McMartin> | That's... not super surprising? You've orbited that project for a long time. |
| 04:05 | <@celticminstrel> | I only tried building it like, once, and I think I was more after tools for SC1 or something. |
| 04:06 | <@celticminstrel> | Or maybe I wanted to use the debug cheat key or something. |
| 04:06 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't even remember now. |
| 04:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay finally got it to build again by adding by SDLmain from another project, Cocoa, and libobjc to the command-line. |
| 04:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay this isn't what I thought it was, oh well. |
| 04:07 | <@celticminstrel> | But wait there's two of them. |
| 04:08 | <@celticminstrel> | Seems like they're both the same thing just one is broken, and neither is the game I remember from a tutorial. Oh well! |
| 04:10 | <@celticminstrel> | Woah it works. |
| 04:10 | <@celticminstrel> | Or... not. |
| 04:10 | <@celticminstrel> | ("it" being the very basic platformer in the same directory that I made way back then) |
| 04:11 | <&McMartin> | How old is this version of SDL? |
| 04:11 | <&McMartin> | If it's old enough to still be using QuickDraw instead of Quartz it'll just crash on startup starting with macOS 10.12 |
| 04:12 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm on 10.7. |
| 04:12 | <@celticminstrel> | And the SDL version is uhh... |
| 04:12 | <@celticminstrel> | 1.2.15 |
| 04:13 | <&McMartin> | OK. 1.2.15 should run on all versions of macOS. |
| 04:13 | <&McMartin> | Including 10.7, because you helped test 0.7.0-2, which used it. |
| 04:13 | <@celticminstrel> | It's probably a bug in the actual game code. I mean, I was like 18 when I wrote it. |
| 04:14 | <@celticminstrel> | And I was working on Windows at the time, too. |
| 04:14 | <@celticminstrel> | I may have also been using threads for some misguided reason. |
| 04:14 | <@celticminstrel> | Anyway basically what happens is that it segfaults after you complete a level. |
| 04:15 | <&McMartin> | Aha |
| 04:15 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that's probably not on SDL |
| 04:15 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah. |
| 04:16 | <@celticminstrel> | I wonder if I still have the minesweeper I coded in the Windows console... |
| 04:16 | <@celticminstrel> | ...I think I just spotted it. |
| 04:16 | <@celticminstrel> | Obviously that's not gonna compile here though. |
| 04:17 | <&McMartin> | Will Wine run it? |
| 04:17 | <@celticminstrel> | Wait WTH is RISK.CPP!!! |
| 04:17 | <@celticminstrel> | It might, I dunno. |
| 04:17 | <@celticminstrel> | I definitely never did anything Risk! |
| 04:17 | <@celticminstrel> | Did I end up with a pile of other students' code too somehow...? |
| 04:18 | <@celticminstrel> | Mind you I don't think this could actually be a real Risk game, it's way too short. |
| 04:19 | <@celticminstrel> | WTH is honeycomb.cpp I don't remember this at all... |
| 04:20 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh there's even .DSW in here. |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | And something GL but I don't think I have GLUT to compile it and see what it is. |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | It's probably just something dumb like "draw a teapot" anyway. |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | No wait it's even dumber, it's just "draw a rectangle". |
| 04:22 | <&McMartin> | GLUT was abandoned years ago. |
| 04:23 | <@celticminstrel> | I know. |
| 04:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Other stuff in here is just contest code. |
| 04:24 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh wait if I go up one directory I see BALLGAME could that be the game I was thinking of. |
| 04:24 | <@celticminstrel> | It's an exe though, not source. |
| 04:25 | <@celticminstrel> | ...why is wine not in my PATH. |
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| 04:28 | <@celticminstrel> | ...wow I have a lot of copies in locate. |
| 04:28 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, because GoG games and stuff I guess. |
| 04:34 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, it's not working in wine. Can't create the window. |
| 04:34 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm probably doing something wrong. |
| 04:35 | <&McMartin> | Wine might not actually implement the NT4+ console window functions. |
| 04:37 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm pretty sure this is the ball game I was thinking of though. |
| 04:38 | <@celticminstrel> | Though I don't see an actual ball in the spritesheet... |
| 04:39 | <@celticminstrel> | Bah, needs MSVCR71.dll. |
| 04:40 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay now it works. |
| 04:40 | <@celticminstrel> | (The solution was to copy it to Windows and run it there. :P ) |
| 04:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Anyway that was all a distraction from what I actually wanted to do which was try Unity. >_> |
| 04:53 | <@celticminstrel> | The ball rolling tutorial seems to be a video tutorial though? |
| 04:55 | <&McMartin> | Alas that it is so. |
| 04:55 | <&McMartin> | Coders are no longer literate. =P |
| 04:55 | <@celticminstrel> | I have no idea if I have a Unity ID, did I need to get one to download Unity in the first place...? |
| 04:56 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe I signed in with Google? |
| 04:58 | <@celticminstrel> | ...the password reset functionality would've complained if I didn't have one, right? |
| 04:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, apparently that's not the case. |
| 05:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Or maybe it is? Trying a different email gave an error, so maybe I did originally sign in with Google? |
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| 05:14 | <@celticminstrel> | Is there a way to uninstall Visual Studio but leave MSBuild, cl, etc installed? |
| 05:16 | <@celticminstrel> | Apparently going to programs and features only gives an option to "change" so maybe that'll do what I want. |
| 05:22 | <@celticminstrel> | No I need to download a completely different package. >< |
| 05:23 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:32 | <@celticminstrel> | And it seems like I can only get the 2017 tools, not the 2015 tools (would be nice to have both). |
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| 07:27 | <&[R]> | "I was having an argument w/ the local security wonk who wouldn't let me use SSH to connect to machines insisting that telnet was MUCH more secure." |
| 07:32 | <@Alek> | ... |
| 08:29 | <@AnnoDomini> | What are some good laptop models in the small/thin/light market? I need something that can handle XFCE or LXDE, intended for travel and mobile office work. |
| 08:31 | <@AnnoDomini> | I got a Samsung NP905S3G, which fits this bill, but I need another. |
| 08:51 | <&[R]> | Any laptop in the thin and light market sounds like it'll fit the bill |
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| 10:46 | <@TheWatcher> | [R]: If by "MUCH more secure" means "I can trivially log everything you're doing".... >.> |
| 10:47 | <&[R]> | No kidding |
| 10:47 | <&[R]> | Telnet lover got pwned when ssh-guy paketsniffed his PW |
| 10:48 | <&[R]> | Then telnet guy was all "we need to ban packet sniffers!" ssh guy was "dude. Our bussiness model is we analyze packets. That would make us go broke." |
| 10:51 | | * TheWatcher facepalm |
| 10:53 | <@TheWatcher> | I don't even know where to begin with that level of drooling stupidity |
| 10:54 | <&[R]> | Yup |
| 10:55 | <&[R]> | Ha, someone elsechan thinks the wonk is a mole |
| 10:55 | <&[R]> | Which would explain that |
| 10:57 | <@TheWatcher> | That's a generous and optimistic possibility, certainly |
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| 17:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | [R]: I was trolling for suggestions that take into account requirements not specified. If I pick a random one that fits my reqs, it's likely to be shit. |
| 17:52 | <&[R]> | I've heard good things about the newest Razor Stealth |
| 17:53 | <&[R]> | https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/924323-best-ultra-portable-laptop-with-decent-specs-for-cad/ <-- otherwise check that out? |
| 17:53 | <&[R]> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TyUSf7og <-- Stealth review |
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| 20:18 | <@AnnoDomini> | [R]: Thanks. |
| 20:34 | <@celticminstrel> | Urgh. |
| 20:34 | <@celticminstrel> | I dunno. |
| 20:36 | <@celticminstrel> | Is Unity more difficult to get into than Unreal or is it just the differing circumstance that makes it feel that way. |
| 20:51 | < RchrdB> | I expect so. UE does a lot straight out the box, doesn't it? |
| 20:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah... |
| 20:53 | < RchrdB> | Does UnrealEngine ship with any of the code from previous Unreal games that were made with it? |
| 20:53 | <@celticminstrel> | AFAIK not? |
| 20:53 | <@celticminstrel> | There are assets from Infinity Blade available for free download though. |
| 20:53 | <@celticminstrel> | But that's not Unreal Tournament is it. |
| 20:54 | < RchrdB> | Shame. |
| 21:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Also that's assets, not code. |
| 21:00 | <&McMartin> | I felt like I was getting off the ground quite rapidly with Unity, but I haven't tried working with Unreal. |
| 21:00 | <@celticminstrel> | (Though in UE at least, assets can contain code.) |
| 21:01 | <@celticminstrel> | I feel like I caught onto Unreal fairly quickly? But I kinda didn't have a choice though. |
| 21:01 | <@celticminstrel> | Also there are areas where I still don't know much (or anything) yet. |
| 21:02 | < RchrdB> | I was just thinking about how neat it was that someone in 1999 could go buy a copy of Unreal Tournament in a shop, build a different game by editing what's already there, and then in theory they could go and get permission to make it into a commercial product by phoning up Epic and negotiating a licensing deal. |
| 21:02 | <@celticminstrel> | I imagine Unreal Tournament used a much older version of the engine anyway. |
| 21:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Like version 1, most likely? It's on 4 now. |
| 21:03 | < RchrdB> | Well yeah, when UT99 was out they just called it the "Unreal Engine", no number on the end. :) |
| 21:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Code from Unreal Tournament probably wouldn't even work in UE4. |
| 21:03 | < RchrdB> | Did they discard UnrealScript in the end? |
| 21:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Seems so. |
| 21:04 | <@celticminstrel> | UE4 has a visual scripting language. |
| 21:05 | <@celticminstrel> | From what I can tell, this is new in UE4 (ie UE3 used UnrealScript), though that's just from circumstantial evidence when I accidentally end up on older documentation pages. |
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| 22:58 | < RchrdB> | I've seen a few screenshots of that. Though, people usually only post screenshots when it goes really wrong. Spaghetti code ends up looking really discordant. |
| 22:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah it can get very spaghetti if you're not careful. |
| 23:00 | <@celticminstrel> | It's worse for material graphs since you couldn't even add reroute nodes until about 4.14 or 4.15. |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jun 17 00:00:10 2018 |