| --- Log opened Mon Apr 02 00:00:33 2018 |
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| 04:20 | <&[R]> | TIL about ltrace |
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| 05:09 | <&McMartin> | I'm trying to decide how much I hate it when I have two source files that each depend on the other's headers. |
| 05:14 | <&[R]> | What's so bad about that? |
| 05:14 | <&[R]> | Seems like something that'd happen fairly often in a larger program |
| 05:15 | <&McMartin> | It implies you're being careless about your decomposition of the problem |
| 05:16 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:19 | <&[R]> | Areyou talking about when they mutually depend on each other? |
| 05:19 | <&[R]> | Because one depending on the other without the reverse seems fine |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, mutual dependency. e.g. "each depend on the other's headers", which is to say, they're both calling into one another |
| 05:22 | | * McMartin is thinking of this as a de facto module in C or C++ being a strongly connected component in the graph where an edge A->B means A.cc includes B.h. |
| 05:23 | <&McMartin> | And if I phrase it like that, you then get the question "should a module ever be more than one implementation file", which seems like it could be trivially yes or trivially no. |
| 05:24 | <&[R]> | Yeah, they're tightly coupled to each other, so they may as well be one thing |
| 05:27 | <&McMartin> | But then there's all the explicitly stated mechanisms for modules; encapsulation, namespacing, even directory structure |
| 05:28 | <&McMartin> | For some modules, particularly ones near the bottom of a bottom-up implementation, I would want the conceptual module to be made out of a large number of independent de-facto modules. |
| 06:07 | | * McMartin goes back to one of his Erlang exercises and drastically improves it by making it much less map-reduce-y. |
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| 07:28 | <&McMartin> | jerith: I finally got around to the rewrite of sum_of_multiples. Your solution was more or less what I was aiming for but I seem to have ended up with a Deeply Imperative Accent along the way. :) |
| 07:29 | <&jeroud> | Nothing wrong with writing imperative code in Erlang. |
| 07:30 | <&jeroud> | The world is imperative, and Erlang exists to model the world. |
| 07:31 | <&McMartin> | I mean, it's still functional |
| 07:31 | <&McMartin> | I think which one of our solutions is more efficient depends on how much larger N is than the base factors, and in how many base factors there actually are. |
| 07:32 | <&McMartin> | Though my answer to the grains question is pretty much "'sup, I'm here from my usual hobby of writing asm" |
| 07:33 | <&McMartin> | I haven't gotten an excuse to pattern-match on binaries yet and it's burning |
| 07:33 | <&jeroud> | Grains is best solved by trivial bitshifts in any language, really. |
| 07:33 | <&McMartin> | The final question is a trick, in C |
| 07:34 | <&McMartin> | ... though come to think of it, it will work, but you're relying on certain behavior of arithmetic overflow |
| 07:34 | <&McMartin> | And the correct way to write the "total grains" amount there is `(uint64_t)(~0)` |
| 07:34 | <&McMartin> | As opposed to `(uint64_t)((1 << 65)-1)` |
| 07:35 | <&McMartin> | Also, as I head off to bed, something perverse has occurred to me |
| 07:35 | <&jeroud> | Ooh, I contorted the phone number exercise into bitstring pattern matching. :-D |
| 07:35 | <&McMartin> | By the definition you gave in your talk a few years back, the entirety of iOS is legacy code. |
| 07:36 | <&jeroud> | My legacy code talk was last year. :-P |
| 07:36 | <&McMartin> | And that's even before you bump up against the fact that much of the documentation is nonexistent or more aspirational than descriptive. |
| 07:36 | <&McMartin> | Okay, I'm bad at remembering timing. :-P |
| 07:37 | <&McMartin> | Back to Erlang: can binaries be indexed in constant time? |
| 07:37 | <&McMartin> | This seems like it would have implications for Elixir strings. |
| 07:38 | <&jeroud> | Pattern matched, yes. I can't remember if they can be indexed at all. |
| 07:39 | <&jeroud> | The trick there is that you can't have variable-length segments except for the last. |
| 07:39 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 07:40 | <&McMartin> | I'm mainly wondering if there's an easier way than integer math on ascii codes to manage the atbash cipher. |
| 07:41 | <&jeroud> | To perform atbash in the original, you'll probably need a map or something.~ |
| 07:42 | <&jeroud> | (It predates the Latin alphabet.) |
| 07:42 | <&McMartin> | Mmm. Now that you mention it, and speaking of imperative, I haven't used ETS for anything yet. |
| 07:42 | <&jeroud> | Neither have I. |
| 07:43 | <&McMartin> | That is noticably not burning. |
| 07:43 | <&jeroud> | Grade School is a potential candidate for that, but the Erlang API discourages it. |
| 07:44 | <&jeroud> | Or rather, the exercise API in the Erlang track. |
| 07:45 | <&jeroud> | But ETS works best when you model it as message passing to a process that maintains the table state. |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | That's immediately practical from my admittedly limited standpoint |
| 07:46 | <&jeroud> | (It's not, but it certainly could be if you ignore the performance characteristics.) |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | I know just enough about server work to be dangerous. :D |
| 07:47 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, an awful lot of my goroutines were loops that maintained and consulted some map kept as a local variable. |
| 07:47 | <&McMartin> | That model maps very readily to ETS, from my scanning of it. |
| 07:47 | <&McMartin> | (Also too many of them were loops that should have been loops that fired off fire-and-forget worker threads.) |
| 07:47 | <&jeroud> | That is the only way to get "mutable" state in the BEAM. |
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| 10:42 | | * [R] does clean up, stares at http://rpgb.nobl.ca/demo.txt |
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| 23:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: you should check the Library. |
| 23:34 | <@Reiv> | Step 1: Get an ebook up and running |
| 23:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | I didn't realize it was dead. |
| 23:35 | <@Reiv> | Step 0: Find the spoons such that such a thought does not fill me with the precursors for panic attacks and meltdown |
| 23:35 | <@Reiv> | AFAIK it's fine; it was me that wasn't |
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| 23:48 | <@Reiv> | ToxicFrog: Suffice to say I have spent the better part of a year running on Critical Spoon Failures and not a lot behind in terms of metabolic health either, and every step to improve my being medically kept coming with bonus psychological burdens in the same breath, which had a habit of feeling awfully zero-sum, all told |
| 23:49 | <@Reiv> | The thought of having to get a laptop, ebook, and cable in the same place at the same time and then presumably investigate an item of software on a PC to make the two talk nicely with each other, all so I have the opportunity to have another thing to have to deal with (ie: reading a book) was ... too much. |
| 23:50 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 23:50 | < Mahal> | Reiv: this is why I love the Kindle, tbh |
| 23:50 | < Mahal> | all I ahve to do is keep it charged. |
| 23:50 | <@Reiv> | You may extrapolate that to my coping capacity elsewhere in life with reasonable accuracy. :p |
| 23:50 | <@Reiv> | Mahal: Bollocks, you still have to read it! |
| 23:50 | | * Mahal sighs, politely drops Reiv out the airlock |
| 23:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | FWIW, no special software is needed; it helps (updating series information, read/unread status, etc) but you can just treat it like a USB drive and drag-drop epubs on it |
| 23:51 | <@Reiv> | (Yes, reading was in the "Oh god, I do not have the spoons" bucket) |
| 23:51 | <@Reiv> | *any* reading, literally |
| 23:51 | < Mahal> | (Fair enoough) |
| 23:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | And for me, reading is a thing that regenerates spoons, but I appreciate that it's not the same for everyone. |
| 23:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reading is my base state. |
| 23:51 | <@Reiv> | ... it does for me too |
| 23:51 | < Mahal> | I maintain a library of trashfic specifically for spoon regen |
| 23:51 | <@Reiv> | But apparently it requires 0.1 spoons to start |
| 23:51 | < Mahal> | it doesn't require mental/emotional investment but it gives me the 'refreshment' of reading |
| 23:52 | <@Reiv> | So when you are at -94, with an overdraft limit of -10, it is irrelevant that this would be a great way to recharge |
| 23:52 | < Mahal> | Yes |
| 23:52 | <@Reiv> | One simply did not have the spoons to kickstart the spoon charge |
| 23:52 | <@Reiv> | And one simply did not have the spoons to set up the device to get the stuff to spend the spoons to kickstart the spoon charge. |
| 23:53 | <@Reiv> | At which point the ebook has been sitting on my bedside table since I got it, staring at me begrudgingly and silently reminding me of its neglect ever since. |
| 23:53 | <@Reiv> | To be fair, there have been a considerable list of items that have been on said list |
| 23:53 | | * Mahal nods |
| 23:53 | < Mahal> | I don't often use the actual Kindle |
| 23:53 | < Mahal> | I tend to use the Kindle app on phone more often |
| 23:53 | < Mahal> | but as that syncs over Cloud Magic with RealKindle, switching between them is fairly painless |
| 23:53 | <@Reiv> | I have essentially been maintaining biological, employment, and social obligations and precisely nothing else |
| 23:54 | <@Reiv> | This includes gaming on anything tougher than MechWarrior, which I must confess I was lucky to stumble upon when I did |
| 23:54 | <@Reiv> | Because it was precisely the right level of engaged-but-not-thinking to wear my brain out for a few months of evenings |
| 23:54 | <@Reiv> | And in doing so, helped me start clawing back the spoon deficit. |
| 23:55 | <@Reiv> | I do not respect spending money on an F2P skirmish game when it turned out to heal my mental health. <g> |
| 23:55 | <@Reiv> | *regret |
| 23:55 | <@Reiv> | thanks, fingers |
| 23:55 | <@Reiv> | I am, after a 4 day weekend, now actually willing to consider dealing with ebooks again. |
| 23:56 | <@Reiv> | I have a hell of a backlog, but I am carefully not thinking about that part lest I flee it again |
| 23:56 | <@Reiv> | Thankfully Comet has expressed interest in being able to help me get it going, so that should make it even easier. |
| 23:57 | <@Reiv> | Is your Calibre usable by external parties at the moment, ToxicFrog? |
| --- Log closed Tue Apr 03 00:00:34 2018 |