| --- Log opened Wed Nov 22 00:00:25 2017 |
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| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | Aha, this would appear to be The Thing that came up here a few weeks back |
| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/intel-warns-of-widespread -vulnerability-in-pc-server-device-firmware/ |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | Nehalem/Bay Trail hype |
| 01:53 | < Degi_> | Gee, who thought that some closed-source code running on an extra processor in your CPU having access to all your RAM and peripherals could do that... |
| 01:53 | <&McMartin> | No, the closed-source ones don't have the vulnerability, the Minix-based ones do~ |
| 01:54 | < Degi_> | Huh |
| 01:55 | < Degi_> | Nice, the intel tool tells me that my system has no security holes. |
| 01:56 | <&McMartin> | I still think of Skylake/Apollo Lake as being "new systems" |
| 01:57 | < Degi_> | I got a i5-5675C |
| 01:57 | <&McMartin> | Broadwell. Last gen to not have this vuln. |
| 01:58 | < Degi_> | My CPU is ...too old to have it? |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | Yep. |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | Vuln is "6th, 7th, and 8th generation Intel® Core™ Processor Family" |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | Broadwell is 5th gen. |
| 01:58 | < Degi_> | When did gen 6 come out? |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | first chips shipped... 2015, I think? |
| 01:58 | | * McMartin checks |
| 01:59 | <&McMartin> | August 2015. |
| 01:59 | < Degi_> | Heh |
| 01:59 | <&McMartin> | My desktop is from 2009. |
| 01:59 | < Degi_> | I got my CPU in Oct 2016 I think... Or Oct 2015 |
| 01:59 | <&McMartin> | Probably older stock, then. I googled the chip name you gave and got Intel's spec sheet for it |
| 02:00 | < Degi_> | Should've gotten all AMD tho... nVidia is shitty with linux because it requires proprietary drivers and IIRC the CPU's are faster for the same price. |
| 02:00 | <@Alek> | my desktop's from circa '10, give or take a year or two, as well. |
| 02:00 | <@Alek> | my main gpu is from '15 tho. |
| 02:01 | <@Alek> | my CPU is a dual-core non-hyperthreaded. -_- |
| 02:02 | < Degi_> | I got a GTX 980, fine for gaming on windows, steam doesn't work for me in Debian (maybe need to reinstall it). |
| 02:02 | < Degi_> | But it needs proprietary drivers |
| 02:02 | < Degi_> | It even wanted me to sign up to download them on windows till I found a way around it. |
| 02:03 | <&McMartin> | MS ended up doing their own endrun; when I had to reinstall windows last time my 750Ti drivers just magically showed up on their own. |
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| 10:12 | <@TheWatcher> | .... |
| 10:13 | <@TheWatcher> | <script src="https://...blabla.../Scripts/jquery-latest.js"></script> ... potentially promising! |
| 10:13 | <@TheWatcher> | ... "* jQuery JavaScript Library v1.10.2" |
| 10:13 | | * TheWatcher headdesks |
| 10:14 | < Vorntastic> | Lol. |
| 10:15 | <@macdjord> | From context, I'm guessing 1.10 is very, very old? |
| 10:16 | <@TheWatcher> | 2013 |
| 10:16 | <@TheWatcher> | In js-years, ancient. |
| 10:19 | <@TheWatcher> | (it's not even the latest version of the 1.x releases - that would be 1.12.4) |
| 10:19 | <@TheWatcher> | I've got to go have Words with some people... |
| 10:42 | <@Tamber> | In js-years, that's back in the stone age, surely? I mean, it seems like as fast as they want to move and break things, last week is "very old"~ :p |
| 10:56 | <@gnolam> | https://twitter.com/MalwareTechBlog/status/932649133256597505 |
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| 17:46 | <&[R]> | Is there a tech other than block-chain that allows for difficult to forge logs? |
| 17:55 | <@ErikMesoy> | Two relevant subcomponents of blockchain: proof-of-work (forging would require doing hella crypto) and mass-distribution (forging would require subverting many people's logs). |
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| 19:40 | <&McMartin> | [R]: Git? |
| 19:41 | <&McMartin> | Proof-of-work is a misfeature, which is why all practical uses of the technology replace it with a centralized authenticatiton scheme instead |
| 19:48 | <@ErikMesoy> | I feel like "centralized" kinda defeats the purpose of "difficult to forge" if your solution is just to put it in the hands of someone trustworth |
| 19:48 | <@ErikMesoy> | +y |
| 19:54 | <&McMartin> | Yes. |
| 19:55 | <&McMartin> | Given that, in practice, Bitcoin led to a situation where mining power was concentrated to can-forge levels in the hands of Chinese organized crime, and uses so much power per transaction that entire small towns could be powered with it, you paid a lot for very, very little gain. |
| 19:56 | <&McMartin> | "proof of work" is "intentionally waste globally noticable levels of resources to do tiny amounts of work". It doesn't scale by design, which is why the 7-transactions-per-second-global-limit thing is the hill the bloodiest fights have been over. |
| 19:58 | <&McMartin> | Centralized also gives you the other thing you normally want, which is for trusted third parties to be able to reverse erroneous or fraudulent transactions |
| 19:59 | <&McMartin> | Again, Bitcoiners insist that having a typo in a check's recipient field should effectively destroy the money listed forever, but they're wrong, and the ability of cash to be set on fire is not a crucially important selling feature. |
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| 20:07 | <@ErikMesoy> | Blehhh. I feel you have a good point and you're still being obnoxious in saying "they're wrong" rather than something like "they're a marginal use case with massive downsides". And I also feel this is one of those things that's going to come to a head some day. |
| 20:09 | <@ErikMesoy> | See also: "but terrorists" and "but child porn" sanity-clause-powers to take down icky websites, which repeatedly widen into "and now we take down the political dissenters, and people who criticised the police". |
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| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | Right, and that's the flipside of what I think drove these design decisions, which is that somebody noticed "It turns out there's nothing technically stopping someone from kicking your door down and putting a bullet in your head right now" and freaking out. |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | There's also the part where the history of bitcoin is rapidly recapitulating the history of 19th century unregulated wildcat banking and this is not exactly an outcome devoutly to be wished~ |
| 20:53 | <@ErikMesoy> | (cough cough no-knock raids) |
| 20:54 | <&McMartin> | Right, so clearly you should encase your head in solid, airtight impact plastic at all times. |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> | But the thing about no-knock raids is that even you make it illegal |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> | That doesn't *actually stop them* |
| 20:56 | <&McMartin> | At most it means somebody else will get hurt later. You're still dead! |
| 20:56 | <&McMartin> | Problem unsolved. |
| 20:58 | <@ErikMesoy> | Someday, someone else is going to freak out similarly after they put took the "speaking truth to power" propaganda at face value or something, and invent Actually Uncensorable Bitcoin-Internet where all the powers of the world will not be able to censor political dissidents. |
| 20:58 | <@ErikMesoy> | And five minutes later it's going to be the Actually Uncensorable Child-Porn-Internet. |
| 20:58 | <&McMartin> | Abd ut |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> | I was about to say "yeah, that's not going to end well" |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> | Also unblockable malware vector and also endless "legitimate" advertising offers everywhere forever that cannot be opted out of |
| 20:59 | <@ErikMesoy> | Oh, I'm sure the malware will be blockable by the end user. |
| 21:00 | <@ErikMesoy> | The failure mode I have in mind is that there's no third party blocking being done 'for' or 'to' anyone. |
| 21:00 | <@ErikMesoy> | Every user fully responsible for their own filtering! |
| 21:02 | <&McMartin> | That'll end well. End users are domain experts in all fields that touch their everyday lives, after all. |
| 21:22 | <@ErikMesoy> | "If you give me six lines of C written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will trigger undefined behavior." -- Cardinal Richelieu |
| 21:23 | <&McMartin> | As the KGB said, "Give me the man page and I will give you the test case" |
| 21:31 | <&jeroud> | Give me the test case and I will give you the pathologically anticorrect implementation that passes it. |
| 21:33 | <&McMartin> | What makes something "anticorrect" as opposed to merely wrong? |
| 21:36 | <@ErikMesoy> | A test case for Game of Life is the F pentomino, a pathologically anticorrect implementation runs on 13/123 except when the starting input is F? |
| 21:43 | < Mahal> | i hate my life. |
| 21:48 | < Mahal> | converting guids to HEX so that Active Directory understands what to do with them is SHIT |
| 21:50 | <&[R]> | That sounds undifficult |
| 21:50 | < Mahal> | This all has to be done in powershell. |
| 21:51 | < Mahal> | note, I'm perfectly capable of doing it manually / as a once-off |
| 21:51 | <&[R]> | I cannot comment on that |
| 21:51 | < Mahal> | I'm trying to put itin a script so the Helpdesk can do it |
| 21:55 | <&jeroud> | McMartin: I made up the term on the spot and used it to mean "deliberately violating the specification in every possible way while still passing the provided tests". |
| 21:55 | <&jeroud> | This is the failure mode of Traditional TDD Done Properly. |
| 21:56 | <&jeroud> | Well, anticorrect is like bogosort. You have to actually try to do it. |
| 21:57 | <&jeroud> | But incorrect can happen very easily on its own. |
| 21:57 | <&jeroud> | Like bubblesort. |
| 21:57 | <&McMartin> | Right. The tests aren't the spec even if you say they are |
| 21:57 | <&jeroud> | Yes. |
| 21:58 | <&jeroud> | Well, if you say they are then they are. But then you have a very poor spec. |
| 21:59 | <&jeroud> | On the other hand, property based tests can make a decent spec if you get them right. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Nov 23 00:00:17 2017 |