| --- Log opened Fri Nov 10 00:00:07 2017 |
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| 01:42 | <&McMartin> | 138 lines added, 345 lines removed. That's the kind of PR I like to see |
| 01:46 | <@celticminstrel> | :) |
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| 01:54 | <&McMartin> | Also, while it is traditional to have the rule of thumb that the engineer's time estimates will be off by a factor of two |
| 01:54 | <&McMartin> | This time it was in the other direction. |
| 01:57 | <@mac> | McMartin: I've been told to get an ccurate estimate, ask the lead engineer, then double the number and up the unit by one step. |
| 01:57 | <@mac> | So 1 hour = 2 days; 3 days = 6 weeks, etc. |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | Right. When the lead engineer asks the people who are actually executing the tasks, you simply double it |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | In my case, I was self-directed; "I occasionally need to check this other product of ours for reference. Its build system is a tire fire and that gets in my way every time I try to do that." |
| 01:59 | <&McMartin> | "I'm allocating 3 days to unfuck it to the point that it will at least build from a fresh checkout with no rain dances" |
| 01:59 | <&McMartin> | Here it is, 1.5 days later, and the PR accomplishing this is up, along with a certain amount of streamlining to the tune of 200-odd fewer lines in all of the build scripts/configs. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Nov 10 09:29:23 2017 |
| --- Log opened Fri Nov 10 09:29:34 2017 |
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| 16:21 | < Degi> | When I got an array which maps (a,b) to (c,d), how can I map it backwards from (c,d) to (a,b)? The function is (a,b)=(cos(c)+sin(d),sin(c)-cos(d)), in case that helps any. |
| 16:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | That function is not invertible, so the best you'll be able to do is some (a,b) that corresponds to a given (c,d) |
| 16:25 | <&ToxicFrog> | Given that, and given that you know the function, isn't the answer just to compute (cos(c)+sin(d),sin(c)-cos(d)) and there's your answer? |
| 16:25 | < Degi> | I thought of making a 4096x4096 array which contains the (c,d) of that function and then iterating over every element and then put it into a new 4096x4096 array at the coordinates (c,d), so that it contains (a,b). |
| 16:26 | < Degi> | I want to computer the c and d for a specific a and b |
| 16:27 | < Degi> | I basically want to control a robotic arm with it so that I can move it to points with euclidean coordinates. |
| 16:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. Inverse kinematics. |
| 16:41 | < Degi> | I mean finding the position out of angles is easy, the reverse isn't. |
| 16:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yes. "Inverse kinematics" is the general term for this -- "given an arm with joints and a desired position of the end of the arm, what angles do I need to set the joints at" |
| 16:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | For any given question there are likely to be multiple valid solutions; this is what I mean by "the function is not invertible" earlier. |
| 16:44 | < Degi> | Nah, in my case there is only one valid solution for each position. |
| 16:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | And I think part of your earlier question was backwards -- you said "how can I map it backwards from (c,d) to (a,b)", which sounded like you had (c,d) and wanted to compute (a,b), which is trivial |
| 16:46 | < Degi> | Right, I got (a,b) to compute (c,d)... |
| 16:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | I think this would make more sense if you named the cartesian coordinates (x,y) and the joint angles (θ₁, θ₂) |
| 16:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | (a,b) => (c,d) is the hard part, though |
| 16:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you have (c,d) you can compute (a,b) with (cos(c)+sin(d),sin(c)-cos(d)) as you said earlier |
| 16:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | So if you have that, and you already have a LUT mapping (a,b) back to (c,d), you're done? |
| 16:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | So I have no idea what the question is here. |
| 16:52 | < Degi> | I'm at computing the reverse LUT's now, then linear interpolation should work from there on. |
| 16:58 | < Degi> | https://puu.sh/yj2Pj/8c53ebf186.png This is how it looks like, green and blue are the angles I thibk |
| 16:58 | < Degi> | *think |
| 16:58 | < Degi> | No wait its the coordinates |
| 17:00 | < Degi> | https://puu.sh/yj2TG/64a509d2f0.png This looks weird |
| 17:14 | < Degi> | https://puu.sh/yj3m0/21419d1320.png Higher density of the (alpha,beta) to the (x,y) array, now there are no holes in there but still weird look. |
| 17:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | From what you said you had the reverse LUT to start with and wanted to compute the forward LUT. |
| 17:18 | < Degi> | Yeah, that image is the forward LUT, the image coordinates being x and y and the color being alpha and beta,. |
| 17:27 | < Degi> | Oh wait shit my formulas are wrong |
| 17:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | The "weird look" is because some (x,y) pairs have multiple valid angles that can reach them, so what colour the end up depends on what order compute the table in. |
| 17:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | (those two smaller circles, I think, are what you get if you point the "inner" arm straight up or straight right, and then spin the "outer" arm around) |
| 17:29 | < Degi> | Yeah... Damn it formulas. |
| 17:30 | < Degi> | And I forgot to include that the servos can only spin by 180 degs. |
| 17:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | As in, 0°±180° (so, 360° reach, but can't spin around multiple times), or as in 0°±90° for a total reach of 180°? |
| 17:31 | < Degi> | 0°+-90° |
| 17:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 17:31 | < Degi> | How do I rotate a point around the origin again... |
| 17:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's still not invertible even with that constraint |
| 17:32 | < Degi> | (x*cos(angle)+y*sin(angle),x*sin(angle)+y*cos(angle))? |
| 17:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Convert to polar coordinates, update theta, convert back? |
| 17:32 | < Degi> | Ugh, now I need polar coordinates |
| 17:33 | < Degi> | Yeah, my formula seems to be right. |
| 17:37 | < Degi> | Polar coordinates is probably the easiest way to go. |
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| 17:53 | <&[R]> | <thana> https://imgur.com/a/yeLMB |
| 17:53 | <&[R]> | <thana> which is it |
| 17:53 | < Degi> | Finally |
| 17:53 | < Degi> | https://puu.sh/yj4Dc/fb060cd05a.png |
| 17:55 | < ErikMesoy> | [R]: Seems to be clearly 100 to me. First sentence loses 100, second sentence loses nothing. Am I missing something? |
| 17:55 | <&[R]> | That's what I got as well |
| 17:55 | <&[R]> | <[R]> She stole [-100], she brought 70$ of goods to the counter to buy [-170], she paid with the 100 [-70], then he gave her change [-100] |
| 17:57 | < ErikMesoy> | "A lady steals $100 from the store. How much did the owner lose?" The transaction described inbetween is a red herring. |
| 18:00 | < ErikMesoy> | If you fire something off Earth at a speed a little higher than Earth's escape velocity, what sort of orbit does it end up in? (I realize this isn't exactly code but I don't see a #kerbal and I figure the overlap is significant.) Orbiting Earth, trailing/leading Earth in orbit around Sun, or? |
| 18:07 | <@gnolam> | The latter. |
| 18:08 | <@gnolam> | The escape velocity is the speed required to escape a body's gravitational influence. So by definition, it will not end up in an Earth orbit. |
| 18:15 | < ErikMesoy> | Ah. I'd learned escape velocity as the (initial) speed required to not fall back to the body's surface. I had not realized that this was synonymous with leaving orbit too. |
| 18:21 | <&[R]> | Orbit is merely perpetual falling |
| 18:21 | < ErikMesoy> | I'm aware. |
| 18:23 | < Degi> | Ugh |
| 18:24 | < Degi> | I finished the first two servos, now I need to do the third. |
| 18:24 | < Degi> | Which is basically another sin/cos and another addition to the other sin/coses |
| 18:25 | < Degi> | Now I got (x,y) = (cos(gamma + beta) - cos(beta), sin(gamma + beta) - sin(beta)). Now I need to add z and alpha. |
| 18:26 | < Degi> | Which basically interpolates the x value between the x and z axis. |
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| 18:42 | < Degi> | Holy shit how does that lead acid battery hold a charge of 17 V? |
| 18:43 | < Degi> | Nah, just my voltmeter showing a higher voltage on the 200 V scale when at low voltages |
| 18:47 | <@Tamber> | you would have a Very Unhappy battery if it really were that high. :x |
| 18:47 | < Degi> | I mean it got 40 mA short circuit current |
| 18:47 | < Degi> | I think it is sulfated, very heavily. |
| 18:48 | < Degi> | And I discharged a 72 mF 50 V capacitor into it down to 20 V which took maybe a minute |
| 18:48 | < Degi> | Before that it had 20 mA short circuit current |
| 18:48 | <@Tamber> | Yeah, that's not happy, either. :/ |
| 18:49 | < Degi> | But it is good as a dead weight, is a 7 Ah 12 V AGM battery. |
| 18:49 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 18:50 | < Degi> | Hm, the last time I used my robotic arm I remember it crashing my arduino from overcurrent. |
| 18:51 | <@Tamber> | (Can't really say for AGM, but I've had reasonable luck reviving some thoroughly dead flooded lead acid just by throwing them on a charger and seeing what happens. I mean, worst thing is that it doesn't recover, and ends up going in for recycling~) |
| 19:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | ErikMesoy: if you're starting from the surface, and not maneuvering afterwards, orbit is impossible -- you'll come back to the surface at some point. So the only way not to return to the surface is escape velocity. |
| 19:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | You reach orbit by launching at less-than-escape velocity, then doing another acceleration burn to stabilize the orbit. |
| 19:18 | < Kizor> | (I think you could do them the other way around too, that'd just be way Kerbal.) |
| 19:19 | < Kizor> | (Get yourself the lateral velocity, then go into space.) |
| 19:21 | < Kizor> | (Flight plans that only call for heat shields on the descent are for pussies.) |
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| 19:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | Kizor: as in, launch at >EV, then burn retrograde at your desired altitude? Yes, but that's wasteful of dv. |
| 19:22 | < Kizor> | If you're goin' too slow I feel bad for ya son, I got 99 boosters and all in stage one. |
| 19:24 | <@Tamber> | "Light the blue touch-paper, and run the hell away" |
| 19:25 | < Degi> | Build wings out of solid state boosters |
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| 20:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | tfw it builds and all tests pass and you didn't expect it to |
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| --- Log closed Sat Nov 11 00:00:27 2017 |