| --- Log opened Wed Jul 12 00:00:19 2017 |
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| 08:10 | <&McMartin> | Hooray: https://i2.wp.com/bumbershootsoft.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/riscos_17_target.p ng |
| 08:10 | <&McMartin> | Getting this to work was much less horrific than I expected, though there are some hilarious mismatches like not existing on the icon bar. |
| 08:11 | <&McMartin> | But otherwise, the SDL port only required bludgeoning the filesystem organization into RISC OS's insane shape and altering the makefile arguments a bit... and then also tweaking which environment variables are read and how they are interpreted |
| 08:11 | <&McMartin> | And then the usual "how do you bundle an app in this alien world" hilarity that was not particularly any worse than any other app-based OS. |
| 08:13 | <&Reiver> | the heck are you doing sir |
| 08:15 | < Jessikat> | jeroud: technically, I'm pretty sound. Mostly I would want mentoring in management or personal development, leadership things |
| 08:16 | < Jessikat> | I'm just not confident in them and would appreciate more role models. Interviewing candidates would be a good place to start |
| 08:17 | <&Reiver> | I'm the best SQL coder in my organisation. |
| 08:17 | <&Reiver> | I was one of the best in my previous one. |
| 08:18 | <&Reiver> | This is well and good, but there is a big difference between 'the best' and 'one of the best' when you run into a problem that makes your head hurt and want a second opinion... |
| 08:18 | <&McMartin> | Reiver: So, back in 1995, when I was in high school, I and a few of my BBS acquaintances put together a little shmup for DOS, written in C and assembler, and building our own graphics tools and such to do it. |
| 08:18 | < Jessikat> | I read 'generation' and pictured you as some sort of data highlander |
| 08:18 | <@abudhabi> | So what you're saying is that SQL people are rare and get hired if they have a pulse and can SELECT * FROM TABLE? |
| 08:18 | <@abudhabi> | :V |
| 08:18 | <&Reiver> | McMartin: ... your high school buddies sound incredible. |
| 08:18 | <&Reiver> | Holy geez, no wonder you ended up a coding guru |
| 08:18 | < Jessikat> | There is basically no one in the world I can ask about some of the things I try to do with C++ |
| 08:18 | <&McMartin> | In late 2000, as a grad student, I ported it to SDL so as to learn SDL, and that was the primary thing that probably got me into the UQM core team, since they wanted a portfolio. |
| 08:18 | <&Reiver> | abudhabi: ... are you mocking my skills? I cannot tell. |
| 08:19 | <@abudhabi> | Reiver: Gently teasing. :P |
| 08:19 | <&Reiver> | I see. |
| 08:19 | <&Reiver> | I'm not the best there is. I'm a long way from said, in fact. |
| 08:19 | <&McMartin> | SDL, in principle, has a port to RISC OS, that crazy alternate-universe operating system from the mid-1990s in the UK that I've been experimenting with on the Pi for awhile. |
| 08:19 | <&Reiver> | But I am solidly capable. |
| 08:19 | <&Reiver> | This is a problem when it means I sometimes hit my own limits, and there is no-one better to help me. |
| 08:19 | <&McMartin> | So: I decided to see if I could get the SDL port to build and run. I can! It's kind of a mess, but I can. |
| 08:19 | <&jeroud> | abudhabi: I have enough experience with SQL to know that it is a Very Serious Skill. |
| 08:19 | <&Reiver> | Well, congratulations, sir! |
| 08:19 | <&McMartin> | Also, oh man, the 1995 code is so bad |
| 08:20 | <&McMartin> | I will never let it escape in its true form |
| 08:20 | <&Reiver> | You've, uh, accidentally mostly filled me with historical regret. |
| 08:20 | <&Reiver> | That's not your fault, though. |
| 08:20 | <@abudhabi> | jeroud: I realize. |
| 08:20 | <&jeroud> | Jessikat: Might I recommend joining your local Toastmasters club? |
| 08:20 | < Jessikat> | Toastmasters? |
| 08:20 | <&jeroud> | That has done wonderful things for me. |
| 08:21 | <&McMartin> | We only barely understood C, and we had access to some of the demoscene/game programmer documents lifted from usenet and books |
| 08:21 | <&McMartin> | We could make them go, more or less, but we so obviously had no idea what we were doing |
| 08:21 | <&jeroud> | Jessikat: https://www.toastmasters.org/ |
| 08:21 | <&Reiver> | I can believe it, McM |
| 08:21 | <&jeroud> | It's best known as a public speaking thing, but it's actually rather more than that. (If you read the materials properly and put the necessary effort in.) |
| 08:22 | | * Reiver will wander off to feel miserable and muse on the issues of wasted potential and ruined lives once more, he thinks. This isn't the channel for it. |
| 08:22 | <&McMartin> | If I ever do manage a re-release of the DOS edition, it will be completely reorganized and most of the core routines recoded. |
| 08:23 | < Jessikat> | Reiver: one thing I've learned, after years of regret, is that you don't get the time back, enjoy what you have in front of you |
| 08:23 | <&McMartin> | (But the *real* prize here would be to get a working port of *UQM*.) |
| 08:24 | < Jessikat> | UQM? |
| 08:24 | <&McMartin> | (However, I am pretty sure that in order to build that thing I would need to use cross-tools to make it happen. RISC OS's toolchain does not scale very well.) |
| 08:24 | <&jeroud> | Ur Quan Masters. |
| 08:24 | <&McMartin> | UQM is "Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters" |
| 08:25 | <&McMartin> | A space adventure/combat/RPG game from 1992 that was very famous in North America and then vanished with no particular influence on anything. |
| 08:25 | <&McMartin> | So in a bid for immortality, the creators open-sourced it around 2001, after assembling a team to write a new modern engine for it - which was going to be an SDL port. |
| 08:26 | <&McMartin> | Said creators then became immortal anyway and also got their paycheck, because the dudes went on to create Skylanders. |
| 08:26 | <&McMartin> | X-COM, TIE Fighter, and Star Control 2 were probably the three defining games of my adolescence, though. |
| 08:30 | <&Reiver> | Jessikat: My problem is that the years in front of me have been irreversibly coloured by the years I had behind. |
| 08:30 | <&Reiver> | I could've been a real programmer. Or an engineer. Either would have given me the skills I wish I had to indulge in hobbies I've never succeded in. |
| 08:31 | <&Reiver> | Either would have given me a chance at a future that was something other than corporate drone. |
| 08:31 | <&Reiver> | I am a pretty talented corporate drone, to be fair |
| 08:33 | <&Reiver> | But I'm not a programmer. Nor an engineer. Nor a scientist. My work output is automation scripts to save people time in typing things manually, fixing things where people /typed/ things manually and shouldn't have, and pretty graphs for managers to look at before fretting over whether they're hitting their KPIs. |
| 08:33 | <&Reiver> | I mostly spent high school carefully orchestrating my life so I wouldn't get assaulted. |
| 08:34 | <&Reiver> | I spent university studying degrees that ended up useless because I graduated during the Great Recession, and talent didn't matter any more. |
| 08:35 | <&Reiver> | I've now learned how to program three times, and every time I try to learn again my patience for ineptitude runs out long before I get enough skill to do The Thing I Want To Do Today. |
| 08:35 | <&Reiver> | So even self-teaching is a dead end now. |
| 08:36 | <&Reiver> | I could try to go back to university, but shit, I've got three years left till I pay off my /last/ batch of student loans |
| 08:37 | <&Reiver> | So I might just skip that route before I bankrupt myself chasing my dreams, eh? :p |
| 08:38 | <&Reiver> | Anyway, as noted, this is the wrong channel, so I'd best leave it be and go somewhere else. Apologies for the rant, y'all. |
| 08:44 | <@abudhabi> | Reiver: Didn't read the topic, did you? Rants (...) are encouraged! |
| 08:47 | <&Reiver> | Programmer rants. |
| 08:47 | <&Reiver> | This is #Code, not #Whining |
| 08:49 | <@abudhabi> | You round off to a programmer. :V |
| 08:50 | <&jeroud> | Reiver: Have you looked seriously into data science stuff? |
| 08:51 | <&jeroud> | There's a bunch of programming involved, but for the most part it's not Serious Computer Science. |
| 08:52 | <&jeroud> | The fundamental skill, as far as I can see from talking to people doing it, is the ability to figure out how to take a bunch of data, find something useful in it, and turn that into information. |
| 08:53 | <&jeroud> | (We may have had this conversation before. Or maybe I had it with someone else.) |
| 08:54 | <&Reiver> | Data science is what I trained for. |
| 08:54 | <&Reiver> | I have yet to find a single job for it. |
| 08:54 | <&Reiver> | I mean, OK, I did not get a Degree In Data Science or anything |
| 08:54 | <&Reiver> | ButI took degrees in science, focusing on biochem, genetics, statistical methods & related subjects |
| 08:55 | <&Reiver> | And then I took a second degree in compsci, focusing on databases, algorathmns, and a certain amount of data mining type things |
| 08:55 | <&Reiver> | And my goal was to end up a scientific programmer. |
| 08:56 | <&Reiver> | Data scientist is across the street from my skillset, and I daresay my continued employment in the field of Business Intelligence (spare the jokes, plz) has only brought me more in alignment with that particular direction anyway. |
| 08:56 | <&Reiver> | But AFAICT the jobs don't actually exist. |
| 08:56 | <&Reiver> | So. |
| 08:56 | <&Reiver> | I'll just keep writing my automation and reporting scripts like a good little corporate drone until the 40hr week kills me (literally, the way I appear to be going), and call it a day. |
| 08:58 | <&jeroud> | Maybe you're looking in the wrong places. |
| 08:58 | <&Reiver> | New Zealand? :P |
| 08:59 | <&jeroud> | Organisations who need data scientists need (a) suitable sources of data and (b) the desire to do something useful with it. |
| 09:00 | <&jeroud> | Many such organisations don't actually know that a data scientist is what they need, though. |
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| 09:42 | | * gnolam facepalms. |
| 09:42 | <@gnolam> | "Use a password with 8-32 characters and at least two digits" |
| 09:43 | <@TheWatcher> | "Because we're totally not storing this in plaintext" |
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| 10:32 | | * TheWatcher eyes sonarqube |
| 10:37 | <@TheWatcher> | The upgrade centre is a wonderful example of total uselessness -_- |
| 10:46 | <@gnolam> | I think I'm actually going to e-mail the idiots and ask what the hell they were thinking. |
| 10:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Hey, at least it's not requiring at least two punctuation characters, one ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑐᑦ character, and a quote from the egyptian book of death in Egyptian Demotics |
| 10:49 | <@gnolam> | Yeah, but the whole "two digits" thing shows that whoever implemented that has *no goddamn clue what he's doing*. |
| 12:12 | <@himi> | Reiver: if you wanted to move to Canberra I could probably hook you up with a couple of jobs right up your alley |
| 12:12 | <@himi> | . . . seriously |
| 12:13 | <@TheWatcher> | That'd mean moving to Australia, though~ |
| 12:14 | <@himi> | Well yes, that was implied by the "if you wanted to move to Canberra" bit, I thought |
| 12:15 | <@himi> | Wait, no, not /implied/ - more explicitly stated |
| 12:49 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[d00m] |
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| 13:40 | <&[R]> | http://bigocheatsheet.com/ |
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| 13:50 | <@abudhabi> | [R]: Neat. |
| 13:55 | <&[R]> | abudhabi: Thanks. |
| 14:27 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 14:28 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 14:31 | <@TheWatcher> | Anyone have any experience using pygtk? In particular, any experience with spin buttons created with it? |
| 14:38 | <&Reiver> | himi: I am passingly tempted, though austrailia's tendencies towards increasing racism would make me more than a little nervous. |
| 14:39 | <&Reiver> | Also, canberra. I understand that to be one of the least appealing parts of the entire australia beyond the deserts themselves. :p |
| 14:41 | <@himi> | This is something many people say |
| 14:41 | <@himi> | They're mostly full of shit, though |
| 15:37 | <&[R]> | https://www.linux.com/blog/building-beowulf-cluster-just-13-steps |
| 15:38 | | * [R] looks at step 11 |
| 15:39 | <&[R]> | BTW, if you're ever in a situation where you actually want to do something like that. echo BLAH | sudo tee -a FILE |
| 15:41 | <@TheWatcher> | It's not like anyone ever forgets the first > ~ |
| 15:42 | <&[R]> | Also that |
| 15:55 | <@himi> | . . . that's only 8 years old |
| 15:55 | <@himi> | Kind of scary |
| 15:55 | <@himi> | These days you'd use one of about half a dozen cluster management tools |
| 15:55 | | * himi prefers xCAT |
| 15:59 | <@TheWatcher> | ... wait, hold up, isn't /etc/environment a bunch of key=value pairs? |
| 16:01 | <@himi> | A quick glance would suggest you're correct |
| 16:01 | <&[R]> | Yes |
| 16:03 | <@himi> | The most logical explanation is that the "key=" got left off |
| 16:03 | <@himi> | They're pretty raw instructions |
| 16:04 | <@himi> | Yeah, I'd say it should be PATH=/home/mpiuser/mpich/bin:$PATH, as with step 10 |
| 16:05 | | * himi wonders if any budding beowulfers gave up in disgust after this typo left them with something unusable . . . |
| 16:05 | <&[R]> | Except that'd add a ton of extra shit that shouldn't be there |
| 16:06 | <&[R]> | Also, that instruction will fuck up any user that isn't mpich. |
| 16:06 | <@himi> | This is a cluster - you generally only care about root and the user that your code will run as |
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| 16:07 | <@himi> | Anyway, bedtime for me |
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| 19:06 | < domtron> | hello! how are people? |
| 19:08 | <&[R]> | Did you have a question? |
| 19:18 | < domtron> | nope. just saying Hi and hanging out. :) |
| 19:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Welcome! |
| 19:20 | < domtron> | thank you |
| 19:27 | | * [R] glares a vsftpd's config |
| 19:28 | <&[R]> | "WARNING! Before enabling this, be aware that malicious readers could starve a writer wanting to e.g. append a file. |
| 19:28 | <&[R]> | Default: YES" |
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| 19:49 | <~Vornicus> | uh huh |
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| 22:06 | < domtron> | yessss. Been trying to get a C++ JIT library example to compile for the past week. Finally got it. the last error was because I didn't put the -llib at the end after the -o. >.< |
| 22:08 | < domtron> | * in the build command |
| 22:31 | <&McMartin> | That's the last error because it wouldn't deign to tell you until you'd fixed the 50 other things before it, right |
| 23:06 | < domtron> | yep. not quite 50 though. I was trying to build the example code but there were multiple versions of the library I was trying so work on one didn't port to work on another and I kept waffeling because they were all equally problematic. |
| 23:09 | < domtron> | Finally setteled on a version but then I had to fix the issues with their code then got stuck on that last little bug for around two days. Thouroly perplexed since it was basically saying things were not defined despite my including the right header file. But it was because the library wasn't actually linking. |
| 23:24 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| --- Log closed Thu Jul 13 00:00:20 2017 |