| --- Log opened Tue Jun 06 00:00:37 2017 |
| 00:39 | | Vorntastic [Vorn@Nightstar-uhn82m.ct.comcast.net] has joined #code |
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| 01:56 | | celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel |
| 01:57 | <@celticminstrel> | Does this mean I should stop updating apps from now on? |
| 01:57 | <@celticminstrel> | Given that I'm stuck on iOS 9 due to syncing with my Mac. |
| 01:58 | <@celticminstrel> | Semi-relatedly, I wonder what are the chances that they'll update the Mac Pro line ever again. |
| 02:01 | <@celticminstrel> | (Also, would the latest OSX run all of my most important apps, I wonder...?) |
| 02:02 | < Vornlicious> | Mac hadn't cared about back compat in forever. I'd be frankly amazed if anything either at all. |
| 02:02 | < Vornlicious> | Worked* |
| 02:05 | <@celticminstrel> | eg Word 2011 |
| 02:06 | <@celticminstrel> | I forget, did Office as a desktop suite cease to exist after that? I recall Adobe moved everything to the cloud and seem to remember something similar mentioned about Microsoft too. |
| 02:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | notforth is now partially self-hosting! |
| 02:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | It has two new words, c/file and c/defn, which emit C code suitable for inclusion in itself |
| 02:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | Most of the core words now use this, and the build process builds a minimal notforth, which loads those source files to generate the source and header files that are then linked into the full version. |
| 02:17 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh hey, apparently Skype is also beyond my reach now. It's 10.9+ |
| 02:17 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, I guess I can just shift it to the Windows, but it's less convenient... |
| 02:19 | <@celticminstrel> | Ugh, looks like the Mac Pro is to be replaced by an iMac Pro. |
| 02:21 | <@celticminstrel> | But there might be another Mac Pro at some point from the sounds of it... |
| 02:22 | <&McMartin> | The Mac taxes on proposed Mac Pros are *preposterous* |
| 02:22 | <@celticminstrel> | ??? |
| 02:25 | <&McMartin> | There was an article a few months back of people who ran Hackintoshes and who wanted a new Mac Pro |
| 02:25 | <&McMartin> | And the general vibe was "yes I would totally pay $10k for a system with $3k of power" |
| 02:26 | <@celticminstrel> | This seems to suggest that a new Mac Pro might look like a Mac Mini (though larger). https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/mac-pro/ |
| 02:26 | <@celticminstrel> | So by taxes you just mean how they're overpriced? |
| 02:27 | <&McMartin> | Yes |
| 02:27 | <@celticminstrel> | I wonder if a hypothetical new Mac Pro would support 3rd-party graphics cards... |
| 02:27 | <&McMartin> | The premium over the value of the hardware has been called "the Apple tax" or "the Mac tax" for a really long time, ime |
| 02:27 | <@celticminstrel> | I read something awhile back that suggests the addons are more overpriced than the based computer. |
| 02:27 | <&McMartin> | But yes, it is technically a premium, not a tax. |
| 02:28 | <@celticminstrel> | And the premium on the base computer might've been justified by the case. |
| 02:29 | <@celticminstrel> | Apparently the trash-can Mac Pro has gone down in price significantly, but I dunno if it would be worth getting one if a brand-new model might be out next year (though I probably couldn't get one until next year anyway). |
| 02:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah, that link I posted suggests waiting is better. |
| 02:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh right, I guess I technically don't need Microsoft Word specifically; Pages might suffice. |
| 02:34 | <@celticminstrel> | IIRC they added review functionality at some point, which was one of the significant reasons for sticking with Word. |
| 02:35 | <@celticminstrel> | Still, I kinda wonder how many of my apps would run on the latest OSX. I suspect Finale wouldn't. I suspect it still uses Carbon - its paths in preferences use colons rather than slashes. |
| 02:35 | <@celticminstrel> | (It's also an older version of Finale mind you.) |
| 02:36 | <@celticminstrel> | I wonder if there exists a Gecko-based browser with lots of settings, like Vivaldi; while Vivaldi seems reasonably good, its tab behaviour inherited from Chrome is kinda annoying. |
| 02:51 | | * ToxicFrog throttles the Arduino IDE |
| 02:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Copying only some of the files to a temporary directory, and then trying to build those, WILL NOT WORK |
| 03:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | ....blargh |
| 03:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | So I implement the ability to (on linux) pass it a file directly, skipping the repl -- mostly to avoid spamming the terminal with prompts when loading a file from disk |
| 03:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Except this bypasses readline(), which is where comments are implemented. |
| 04:13 | <@himi> | TF: is there a specific reason you'r'e using the IDE? |
| 04:13 | | * himi has found that the Makefile based build systems work nicely |
| 04:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | himi: partly because it's the most convenient way to build and flash, and partly because I want to release this for other people who are using the IDE |
| 04:14 | <@himi> | I guess that's a decent argument . . . |
| 04:15 | | * himi gave up on it as soon as he had a working makefile based system, but it's certainly not the friendliest option for newbies |
| 04:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | Anyways, I got it sorted out, although it's kind of ugly (name the files .c and .h, and then surround all the content with an #ifdef that makes sure it only exists in the correct context) |
| 04:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | So now I have the ability to use fragments of C code in notforth and it'll emit appropriate C so that it gets incorporated into the next build |
| 04:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | And it's all properly stored in flash and whatnot |
| 04:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's now comfortably under 512b RAM and I think I can get it under 256 with really aggressive moving of string constants into flash. |
| 04:21 | <@himi> | Not bad |
| 04:21 | <@himi> | That's using the Arduino libraries, or did you strip them out? |
| 04:22 | <@himi> | (can you even do that with the IDE without masses of pain?) |
| 04:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's using the Serial library but nothing else. |
| 04:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | Most of this is written in cross-platform C. |
| 04:22 | <@himi> | So just I/O via the serial port |
| 04:23 | <@himi> | What kind of support for the hardware? |
| 04:25 | <&ToxicFrog> | Right now, none whatsoever, because I'm still getting the language core up and running. |
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| 04:26 | | * himi nods |
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| 04:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | IIRC, the AVR uses memory-mapped IO, so I can define a bunch of constants for the IO register addresses and then reimplement stuff like SetPin on top of that using ? and ! (peek and poke) |
| 04:27 | <&ToxicFrog> | (although I'll have to implement support for precompiling non-C words to C first) |
| 04:27 | <&ToxicFrog> | (which isn't hard, I just haven't done it yet) |
| 04:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | But for now...sleep. |
| 04:28 | <@himi> | Have good sleps |
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| 06:20 | | * McMartin dicks around some more with RISC OS's build tools, actually gets them to behave in the manner they were intended to be used |
| 06:20 | <&McMartin> | As opposed to the manner they technically support. >_> |
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| --- Log closed Tue Jun 06 10:04:17 2017 |
| --- Log opened Tue Jun 06 10:04:55 2017 |
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| 22:46 | <&McMartin> | Man, that's a weird feeling. |
| 22:47 | <&McMartin> | "As long as I'm running code on this Pi, I should probably fiddle with the settings so it could run on older machines like the 2008-era Iyonix systems." |
| 22:47 | <&McMartin> | "... wait a minute, I built my Windows gaming desktop in 2009 and the only upgrade its taken since was its GPU" |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jun 07 00:00:48 2017 |