| --- Log opened Wed Apr 26 00:00:05 2017 |
| --- Day changed Wed Apr 26 2017 |
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| 01:45 | <&McMartin> | himi: Any luck with that trajectory program? |
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| 03:33 | < Vornotron> | oh right, that trick gets the *lowest* set bit, not the highest. |
| 03:33 | < Vornotron> | (x & -x) |
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| 03:45 | <@Azash> | Vornotron: ... That's pretty neat, thanks |
| 03:48 | < Vornotron> | I saw somebody using actual log2 to get the highest bit of something and I was about to give 'em shit but nope I was wrong |
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| 05:07 | | * mac has it pointsed out to him that, in C, `array[index]` and `index[array]` are interchanagable, recoils in horror |
| 05:07 | <&McMartin> | That's only true if intptr_t and ptr_diff_t are the same size. |
| 05:08 | <&McMartin> | This does turn out to be a useful trick in 16-bit x86, though, where only some registers are allowed to be "index". |
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| 05:45 | | * McMartin cracks out his assembler again, but mainly as a glorified hex editor. |
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| 11:52 | | * TheWatcher flails vaguely at MediaWiki |
| 11:52 | <@TheWatcher> | So many extensions to fix up |
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| 13:44 | | * TheWatcher ...s, discovers the cause of a problem someone reported in one of his extensions two months ago, headdesks |
| 13:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Switch the order modules are loaded in this file, prolem solved. |
| 13:45 | <@TheWatcher> | uuugh |
| 13:46 | <@Tamber> | oops |
| 13:49 | <@TheWatcher> | I didn't run into it because the module was already loaded by another extension, hiding the order issue |
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| 21:09 | <@celticminstrel> | Argh, why is my stencil buffer not working... |
| 21:11 | <@celticminstrel> | I requested a stencil buffer, enabled the stencil test, set the stencil function to always and the stencil op to replace... but it's not doing anything... |
| 21:12 | <@celticminstrel> | It draws the stuff correctly when I don't disable the colour buffer, though. |
| 21:12 | <@celticminstrel> | By stuff I mean the stuff that's supposed to be in the stencil buffer. |
| 21:25 | <@TheWatcher> | Eh, the stencil buffer isn't all it's cut out to be anyway~ |
| 21:26 | <&McMartin> | :rimshot: |
| 21:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh |
| 21:36 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm pretty sure it could be done with a shader, but I'm trying not to use shaders. |
| 21:37 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not sure stencil buffer is the right choice, but it seems like it should work. |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | What OpenGL/D3D version are you targeting? |
| 21:38 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not sure, probably something really old like 1.2? |
| 21:38 | <@celticminstrel> | Or 2.0? |
| 21:38 | <&McMartin> | 1.2 will guarantee you aren't using shaders, at least~ |
| 21:38 | <&McMartin> | But OK, that makes sense then |
| 21:38 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, I know this thing does support shaders. |
| 21:38 | <&McMartin> | 2.x then probably |
| 21:38 | | * McMartin is under the impression that you couldn't *not* use shaders in the more recent versions, because that's what manages stuff like the perspective transform now |
| 21:39 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe? |
| 21:39 | <&McMartin> | I haven't looked at OpenGL post-merge of OpenGL ES and OpenGL (which was... 4.4? I think?) |
| 21:41 | <@celticminstrel> | I wouldn't know. >_> |
| 21:46 | < RchrdB> | Yes. |
| 21:47 | < RchrdB> | In OpenGL ES 2.0 (which is what WebGL 1.0 is) you get: vertex buffer objects instead of glBegin/glEnd, vertex shaders to implement coordinate transforms in, fragment shaders to compute per-pixel colours. |
| 21:49 | <&McMartin> | VBOs have a number of predecessors that go back to, IIRC, OpenGL 1.5 |
| 21:49 | <&McMartin> | I remember using a predecessor of them for Sable, back before shaders even existed |
| 21:51 | < RchrdB> | OpenGL ES 2.0 corresponds roughly to OpenGL 3.2 core, I think? But with fewer features and more limitations. |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, IIRC there was a while where neither was a strict superset of the other |
| 21:51 | < RchrdB> | Recently there is now WebGL 2 which corresponds to OpenGL ES 3.0 |
| 21:52 | < RchrdB> | WebGL 1 has >90%, I think roughly ~95% deployment in the wild, if you include browsers which respond affirmatively when asked for canvas.getContext("experimental-webgl") and not only those which will give you a result for canvas.getContext("webgl") |
| 21:54 | < RchrdB> | the guideline is that the browser is supposed to give you a webgl context when you ask it for "exterimental-webgl" even if it's shit |
| 21:54 | < RchrdB> | but the browser is supposed to only give you a webgl context if asked for "webgl" (no "experimental-" prefix) unless the browser authors are confident that their implementation is feature-complete and stable |
| 21:55 | < RchrdB> | so Firefox, Chrome and Safari all respond to "webgl" without the prefix, MS Edge only responds to "experimental-webgl" with the prefix because their WebGL implementation is still kinda janky |
| 21:56 | < RchrdB> | ... |
| 21:56 | < RchrdB> | anyway |
| 21:56 | < RchrdB> | OpenGL ES 2 is actually really nice! |
| 21:57 | < RchrdB> | instead of "call these API functions to set up these matrices that you'll have no idea what the fuck they mean", tutorials are more like "here's the maths for a perspective transform, here's what that looks like in GLSL" |
| 22:00 | <&McMartin> | It's interesting to see the fashion pendulum on that |
| 22:01 | <&McMartin> | It goes all the way back to OpenGL 1.x, where OpenGL itself was like that, but then GLU would include the functions that operated in terms of FOV angle or "Look at this point" |
| 22:01 | < RchrdB> | one interesting midpoint I've heard of is consoles (I think the DS did this) opting to have programmable vertex shaders but fixed-function fragment shading |
| 22:01 | <&McMartin> | And this went back and forth several times as to what you should actually do |
| 22:01 | < RchrdB> | because vertex shading isn't as high throughput as fragment shading, mostly |
| 22:01 | <&McMartin> | That's interesting becuase, of course, the earliest systems tended to be the reverse |
| 22:01 | <&McMartin> | Some modern ones, too, actually |
| 22:02 | <&McMartin> | OpenGL 2.x supports vertex shaders but the minumum number of shader units it's allower to support turns out to be zero |
| 22:02 | <&McMartin> | I know at least one of my tablets has a fragment shader but no vertex shader. |
| 22:02 | < RchrdB> | and it's way way way easier for a hardware team to verify "this tiny supercomputer implements arithmetic & this instruction set correctly" than it is for them to verify "this chip implements all combinations of viewport transforms correctly" |
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| 22:35 | | * McMartin giggles |
| 22:35 | | * McMartin watches one of the old RPi promotional videos, which provides background including "back in the 1980s", and illustrates it with passing brontosauri |
| 22:41 | <&jerith> | Link? |
| 22:45 | <&McMartin> | https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/ |
| 22:46 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| --- Log closed Thu Apr 27 00:00:44 2017 |