| --- Log opened Sun Apr 23 00:00:05 2017 |
| 00:01 | <@himi> | As you said, it's more verbose assembler with a better type system |
| 00:02 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, BBC BASIC and QBASIC both have actual functions and local variables and such, and even the mid-1980s dialects at least had while loops |
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| 00:05 | <~Vornicus> | :( |
| 00:05 | <@himi> | I keep having to put in xx5 lines to do printf debugging |
| 00:07 | <&McMartin> | Literally why you go ahead in steps of 10 |
| 00:11 | <~Vornicus> | ok let's see if I can put this into normal people words and then maybe I can find my way around. I have a list of things with associated numbers. The list never changes, nor do the numbers. My function needs to refer to this list, get the number, and do a calculation based on that. |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | Define it with a list literal |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | Define the map with Map.fromList |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | But honestly, you can probably just write your own four-line alist lookup system |
| 00:13 | <~Vornicus> | "can probably" entails understanding enough of the syntax here that I can even begin reading the manual. It hasn't worked yet. |
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| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | That in turn means maybe don't use maps yet |
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| 00:32 | | * McMartin attempts to merge four different assembly language modules from three different projects into one program |
| 00:32 | <&McMartin> | It's too bad I didn't stick to a fixed ABI over all my random programs for the past ten years~ |
| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | Fortunately, the hardware's so primitive there's not much to control~ |
| 00:36 | <~Vornicus> | ok, alternative. since the function takes in an element of my list of things, I could technically just write a pattern for each thing. That feels rather *dumb* though considering how much of it would be otherwise identical |
| 00:39 | <&McMartin> | Have you gotten to the point where you see patterns that look like "h:t"? |
| 00:46 | <~Vornicus> | Seen those, a little. |
| 00:46 | <~Vornicus> | it's how you glom a thing on to the start of a list. |
| 00:58 | <~Vornicus> | Not that I've done any list manipulation. But my inability to figure out the basics here has really put a damper on my attempts to learn by doing exercises. |
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| 01:24 | | * McMartin finally gets his VIC-II wrangling sorted out |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | This is both more and less horrifically abusive than I had hoped and/or feared. |
| 01:48 | < RchrdB> | Arennnnn't there a few open-source BASIC implementations these days? Cross-platform ones with rather good, Pascal-like performance? |
| 01:49 | | * Vornicus examines. |
| 01:50 | < RchrdB> | I had a vague recollection that one or more of the BASIC implementations used to do okay on the Computer Language Benchmarks Game but that's been rebooted a few times and I don't think it's in there any more. |
| 01:54 | <~Vornicus> | So: I have the type that's the names of my things, and the numbers, I go Orbits = fromList [(Mercury, 0.24), ...] etc, and that gives me a map, I suppose, and then when I need it I go... Orbits ! Mercury to get the number. |
| 01:57 | < RchrdB> | Sure that works. |
| 01:57 | <~Vornicus> | I think. |
| 01:57 | <~Vornicus> | Maybe. |
| 01:57 | <~Vornicus> | which is apparently also a thing |
| 01:59 | < RchrdB> | in Data.Map, there's ((!) :: Map k a -> k -> a), which takes a map and a key and returns the value or throws an exception if the value is absent. |
| 02:00 | < RchrdB> | There's also (lookup :: Map k a -> k -> Maybe a) which takes a map and a key, and returns (Just value) if the key is present or (Nothing) otherwise |
| 02:02 | < RchrdB> | you need to have IO in order to catch a thrown exception |
| 02:02 | < RchrdB> | but you can pattern match on (Just x) vs (Nothing) from pure code |
| 02:35 | <~Vornicus> | ok wtf |
| 02:36 | <~Vornicus> | Now it's complaining about either mismatched brackets (of which there are none) or indentation (of which the only stuff in the file is the stuff that I was given) |
| 02:38 | <~Vornicus> | apparently I get the basic syntax so entirely wrong that it can't explain what I'm supposed to be doing |
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| 02:46 | | * Vornicus frustrates in general 'cause this really should be easier. |
| 02:51 | <~Vornicus> | cryyyyptiiiiiic error messageeeees |
| 02:52 | <~Vornicus> | This is part 2 of why I haven't learned any new languages in a while. |
| 03:13 | <~Vornicus> | https://gist.github.com/DUznanski/13169c437eae9de3d795ab844b8ce744 |
| 03:23 | <~Vornicus> | I know I must be doing something wrong. I have no fucking idea what. |
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| 03:58 | | * Vornicus gives up, goes to do something he can technically make progress on like washing dishes. |
| 04:31 | <&McMartin> | RchrdB: The issue with those is that they are not the dialect in which your article from 35 years ago provided software. |
| 04:32 | < RchrdB> | Might be less translation work than C even then. |
| 04:34 | <&McMartin> | That *also* said |
| 04:34 | <&McMartin> | I have to admit I haven't really found one\ |
| 04:35 | <&McMartin> | QB64 does not perform to my standards, Brandy relies too heavily on interpretation and a simulated display window |
| 05:06 | | * Vornicus has washed the dishes, duo'd his lingos, and poked mongo, now to see if he can figure out what the fuck he's missing. |
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| 05:24 | <~Vornicus> | makes no sense. Got a thing that looks exactly like all the other things that make maps, and this one doesn't work. Got a thing that looks exactly like all the other things that index maps, and -- well, I guess since the creation of the map didn't work neither would that. |
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| 05:42 | | * Vornicus goes a hunting |
| 05:45 | <~Vornicus> | okay. Ord apparently means I need an ordered data type for my keys, which means that I need to tell it ... somewhere, that the keys should be considered ordered ...somehow. |
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| 05:51 | | * Vornicus tries a couple things he sees on the internet, none of them work. |
| 06:10 | <~Vornicus> | -- in order for Ord to work I need to write an Eq function, which in this case appears to require I sit down and write all 36 or perhaps 64 comparisons, which... sounds like a bad day. |
| 06:10 | <~Vornicus> | There Must Be A Better Way |
| 06:11 | <&McMartin> | This is basically a tuple of types that are themselves ordered, right? |
| 06:11 | <&McMartin> | ... though IIRC floating point numbers are *not* ordered, because NaN |
| 06:12 | <~Vornicus> | in order to allow map to use it I have to make it ordered |
| 06:14 | <~Vornicus> | ---or apparently I can just tell it to derive eq and that works. god |
| 06:15 | <~Vornicus> | This one piece of information took six hours to find |
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| 06:36 | <&McMartin> | Blargh. 1Mhz just isn't frickin' fast enough to drive a 40x25 display |
| 06:46 | | * McMartin makes a list of ways to cheat in increasing order of sacrifices to make |
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| 08:17 | <&jeroud> | Vornicus: This is one of the reasons I vastly prefer OCaml to Haskell for my functional programming needs. |
| 08:17 | <&jeroud> | Oh, he's not here. |
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| 11:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | I should try ocaml someday |
| 11:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | But these days I just clojure all day every day, except when I don't |
| 11:46 | <&jerith> | If you're ever in .NET land (which you probably aren't), F# might be an easier dialect to get into. :-) |
| 11:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | I'm never in .NET land. |
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| --- Log closed Mon Apr 24 00:00:06 2017 |